Debra Jordan-Kauble was the “Kathie Davis” of Budd Hopkins’ classic book of abduction, “Intruders.” Here, she joins Whitley for one of the most moving and inspirational editions of Dreamland that we have ever recorded. Whitley considers Debbie’s new book a classic of its kind, and if this interview is any example of what it has to offer, that is an understatement! Debbie and Whitley have a long history together, and a lot of it was quite rocky during the period that Budd rejected Whitley and his idea that there might be more to the close encounter experience than the rough stuff, but they have both come to a new place in their lives, in their understanding of the close encounter experience, and their relationship. This beautiful interview is a powerful testament to that.

Listen as Debbie, who, like so many close encounter witnesses, was plunged into a very dark place by her early encounters, looks back on her journey from that darkness and fear into the wisdom that now fills her soul, and that is on offer in this MUST NOT MISS book!

You can reach Debbie on her website,

To get Extraordinary Contact, click here.

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  1. Totally enjoyed this show! It was great to see “Kathy” Debbie and connect her to what I had read a while ago. She was so down to earth and warm. Amazing how well both Whitley and Debbie evolved over the years. Look forward to reading her new book. Thanks for great show!

  2. Great show but it triggered an odd realization. My sister and I both tried a childish attempt at suicide. We both are Experiencers but usually only talk to each other. I wonder if anyone else would recognize this in their own lives. Thankfully, both my sister and I survived our childhood.

    A factor for me was the fact I had an “imaginary playmate” except he was a grown, balding man but was my size. He helped me to know that I was loved without strings attached. I was brokenhearted when my mother open the car door and told him to leave but his loving message has stayed with me for 70 years and I’ve tried to share it with others.

  3. Whitley and Debra. I TOTALLY loved this conversation. What lives you both have had/still having and so much you are both bringing to humanity. YES, it is going to be the average person that finally unravels the extraterrestrial presence here on our planet and not the governments. I especially liked the Swedish man and your interaction with him over the years (dreams) and wondering if he was , “A DWELLER ON TWO PLANETS/MAYBE A DWELLER IN TWO DIMENSIONS?” Thank you both for such a great interview.

  4. I was sad to hear the interview end. Thank you Whitley and Debbie for this episode.

  5. Debra, I just could not pass this up. So when I posted the first comment it was because after listening to this interview, the book, “A Dweller on Two Planets” swept through my thoughts. This morning I am looking at Graham Hancock’s website. Apparently a meteorite was seen over Sweden and Norway. SO, perhaps Mr. Swedish Man is sending you GREETINGS and to tell you NOT to forget him? A message that he still sees you. I just think this whole thing is pretty darn funny and could not let this pass by without posting a comment.

    “In relating his personal history, which involved travel upon planets Earth and Venus, Phylos highlights some important parallels between his ancient society and the 19th century North American culture in whom his host, the author, resided. Phylos considers his spirit form to be a final incarnation; his memories of the destruction of Atlantis leads to a foreboding element – such an event may repeat itself in the modern society, as its achievements in science and technology reach fantastical new heights.”

    “For its unusual detail and astonishing contents, A Dweller on Two Planets has long been influential in New Age and occultist belief movements.”

    Meteor wows Norway after blazing through night sky.

    A bright light that was most likely a large meteor was seen and heard roaring towards the ground across swaths of Sweden and Norway this past weekend.

  6. This was a phenomenal interview. Thanks Whitley and Debbie for a very enlightening and thoughtful interview.

  7. A day after listening to this, I had a properly weird and extremely vivid dream involving Whitley…the same kind of weird feeling I had in a dream just after hearing the first part of ‘A New World’… Weird enough to stop me from buying it, and reading the rest, by the way. Anyway, the dream seemed to go on for ages, in which I was listening to Whitley narrate a book, that seemed to be going over my head for the most part. But one part I remember, he was talking about three people, or archetypes maybe, whom collectively he referred to with a single, very unusual name (which I can’t remember unfortunately) but that could also be depicted as a thick, golden, bejeweled rope. I have no idea where this stuff comes from, or why.

    Anyway, back to the interview, which was very interesting and brought back lots of memories of reading ‘Intruders’, just after its release. It was probably one of the main books that got me hooked into all this in the first place…and certainly opened my mind.

    1. I’ve just remembered another part of that dream… As I listened to Whitley, he was reading some words, (that in the dream at least) came from the Master of the Key. It was Whitley speaking, but said with such force and deep emotion, it almost felt like he was channelling the MotK… and it hit me right inside, as if the MotK was talking to me diectly, no barriers. All I can remember is being hit with a wave of emotion with words something like “The Good needs YOU”. I think I woke up then.

      Yeah… that was an interesting one.

  8. Definitely worth the listen. Debra comes across as sincere without a trace of BS.

    She mentions an experience where she could “see” her life’s experiences being broken into countless shards as they return and enrich consciousness (the universe, the multiverse, etc.). It reminded me of Don Juan’s explanation in “The Eagles’ Gift” as our awareness returned to where it emanated from.

  9. Dear PUMPHOUSE LADY DEBBIE! Thanks for revealing your ocular migranes as I suffer from seeing triangle now and then RECENTLY and have to pull over while driving-same thing! Gives me a clue as to whats going on! Good info needed for me at this time!

    1. I have migraines with aura (same kaleidoscopic patterns in both eyes)…but also had a few ocular migraines (in one eye). The auras, with a banging headache afterwards, I’ve had since I was about fifteen…and it runs in the family. I don’t attribute it to anything related to visitors.

  10. Great show as ever! Thank you Whitley.
    Maybe it is interesting that a UFO was reported to land in southern Sweden in 1946.
    A young man, Gosta Karlsson, a train dispatcher, witnessed the craft landing in a forest. He met with a visitor (that would now probably be classed as a Nordic) who telepathically told him that the their craft had malfunctioned and needed to land. He was told also of a way to extract nutrients from pollen which would benefit humans via a then a very complex chemical extraction. Gosta had no chemical knowledge or interest in supplements apparently.
    In Sweden he is known as The Pollen King as he made a great fortune from this supplement. Gosta himself didn’t come out with the story until the 1970s as he was afraid of being called crazy.
    My husband and I went to the UFO site where Gosta witnessed the craft just a couple of years ago, we cycled through the forest and found a small area, with burnt trees around and it seemed to us to emit a very strange energy, we didn’t want to linger for some reason, put it that way. A small memorial concrete Space craft (built on a ration of 1:8 ) sits in the site as a reconstruction of Gostas description and the deep rings made in the ground by the craft, (the original rings in the earth could still be seen from the air in the 1960s) have been filled in with concrete to emphasise the tracks and protect them I guess. The small quiet seaside town of Ängleholm (means small Island of Angels ) also displays UFO statues here and there in the town centre as a homage to the story.
    In the 1990’s Gosta put on display in Ängelholm, the artifacts that he said he had taken from the UFO site but the artifacts are now considered missing after his death, maybe they were passed to his family.
    Maybe this Swedish UFO incident could be a connection to the Swedish man that Deb Kauble speaks of….

      1. Hello and thank you for your reply. It is great to share information. Of course people have ‘debunked’ this account of Gosta’s but to my knowledge Gosta did not change his story. Also it does not add up to me why an already successful business man with a multimillion dollar company would then give his account of how he acquired his knowledge and therefore his fortune due to his encounter with extra terrestrials and even later claim that he received messages in his sleep if it were not true. He certainly was not looking for fame and fortune. I feel that having been to this site and witnessed that strange place with its charred tree and tracks that are still left there, my husband and I have no doubt that this place witnessed an unusual energy and it still lingers.
        Also you can check out his company, and it still exists to make medical extracts from Pollen, but of course the story on the About Us erases Gosta Carlssons story and puts his interest down to his love of Bees.

    1. Duchess, this is great information! So many only discuss UFOs in terms as they apply to the U.S.A., and it’s much bigger than that. I have two Twitter feeds, and the newest is strictly for this topic, and I am trying to focus on cases and information from around the world on my posts. So, thank you!

      1. Hello. You are so welcome. I posted an earlier reply to Carollee that you might find interesting. I agree, there are of course so many interesting stories around the world. I think it was also interesting that the little town of Ängleholm was host to a UFO conference in the 1990’s and Gosta had the artefacts that he retrieved from the Lake where the Visitor threw them, on display. They were in a glass cabinet and guarded apparently. I think it would be interesting to know where the artifacts went after his death and if they are in the family, I can understand why they would not want to invite publicity around them. Good luck with your twitter feeds.

        1. Thank you! And I will see If I can track down more on this story, Duchess!

    2. Author

      I have chronic prostatitis and found, seemingly by accident, a study about how certain pollens can help. I have been taking Life Extension Prosta Pollens with great success. I believe that they contain his patented pollen formula.

      I was uneasy about a new supplement and stopped taking it a week ago pending doing a little more research. And presto, here it is! So thank you.

      Now I’m wondering if that seemingly accidental discovery was so accidental after all.

      1. Hello Whitley, yes it was strange that I was inspired to share the story of the Pollen King. I have never written to a comments board before, but now I know why I was suddenly inspired to do so … I hope it was helpful for your research and you have help with your condition. Also it is great to connect with the wonderful people on Unknown Country.

  11. So much in this interview…Ya’ll have heard from me before on many things discussed in this interview—headaches, childhood collapse of immune system, etc.

    My mysterious ‘stranger’ who blew in then blew out of my life happened when I was in college. He wasn’t Swedish, but claimed to have ancestry from Guam, and promised he would return in the future when things on this planet got really rough. That was a very strange 3 days or so, and it included my family. That was in 1972. His last name was ‘Santos’. More to the story, but Debra’s interview reminded me…Hmmm.

  12. A fascinating interview and I listened five or six times.

    The references to occular migraine were very interesting. In all these years I’ve never heard other experiencers talk about this.

    It starts in the left eye (with me at least) and slowly builds into huge ZigZag Psychedelic Electro-Pulsing patterns. It builds to such a point that if I’m driving then I have to pull over until it passes. It also carries a sensation of either lowered serotonin or blood sugar leading to mild weakness.

    Incredibly, here in Britain one doesn’t need to report this to the DVLA (British version of DMV). Anyway, I’ve also noticed over the years that the flashing ZigZags are also preceded by a short period of tinnitus or a tone in the left ear.

    All said and done, a terrific interview and yes, I could hear the power & resonance in Deb’s voice.


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