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32nd Degree Mason Robert W. Sullivan IV explains how the Royal Arch of Enoch, a high degree Masonic Ritual developed in France in the 1700s, has had a huge hidden influence on our world. Whitley Strieber calls the Royal Arch of Enoch "one of the deepest, most revealing and most intelligent books about Masonry that I have ever read." Whitley’s special connection to Masonry arises out of his own life in close encounter, and the fact that, as he points out in a number of his books, the visitors used Masonic principles and, in one situation, Masonic ritual in their relationship with him.

In this interview, Robert Sullivan offers clear explanations of Masonic principle and, above all, the power inherent in real Masonry.

Whitley says, "as soon as I get into Masonry on my show, I get comments that it’s a dangerous cult. That comes from a long tradition in the Christian community that Masonic interest in light has to do with Lucifer." Robert explains why this is a false belief, and goes from there to reveal some extraordinary secrets about the order and, above all, the real power of Masonic ritual and thought.

Robert’s website is

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  1. So excited that not long
    So excited that not long after I discovered Robert W. Sullivan IV, you did too! I am absolutely fascinated by his work and so happy he’s on Dreamland. The interview seemed brief, so I hope you have him on again soon. Finally, you are exploring Freemasonry on this show! As RWSIV said in another interview, the United States is not a Christian nation, it’s a Masonic nation. And he’s right–I’m seeing it everywhere!

    Sullivan’s book, The Royal Arch of Enoch: The Impact of Masonic Ritual, Philosophy, & Symbolism, is over 600 pages. The thing I like about him is his credibility–he’s a 32nd degree Freemason and an attorney who attended Oxford University. With all due respect, he’s much more credible than someone who isn’t even a Freemason talking about Freemasonry. Robert is brilliant and highly credible.

    I think I’ve listened to every single interview Whitley Strieber has even done–both as interviewer and interviewee–and although he has a tendency to repeat some stories, I am STILL hearing him tell of things I’ve never heard from him before. There is new material in both of these shows.

  2. When did Werner Von Braun and
    When did Werner Von Braun and Jack Parsons meet? There is no record of this in any biography of Jack Parsons.

    1. It was Von Karmen, not Von
      It was Von Karmen, not Von Braun.

  3. It drives me nuts when guests
    It drives me nuts when guests mispronounce words and names. This guy’s a language-criminal; he mispronounces entendre, corporeal, emissary and Von Däniken. Whitley, on the other hand, always pronounce things properly.

  4. America is a Freemason
    America is a Freemason country guided by Native America’s meritocracy and the constitution Iroquois Nations pioneered! The Founding Fathers and early colonists were not dedicated church goers. The church-going Christians came later with famines in Ireland and Germany. This wave of immigrants brought with them profound ignorance. Many of them had never seen a book, much less learned to read, but most could recognize the Bible by sight. The Founding Father’s vision of America has not yet been assimilated by children of immigrants that came to America to find food and land. These generations revisioned the American dream to equate it with private ownership of property. In Europe vassals were not allowed to own property, but in America property was available for every commoner. We’ll see during changes in the next 50 years how things go for descendants of the church-going immigrants. They wanted land and food, and they got both. It would be nice to assimilate greater vision of light in the American dream.

    Venus was the guiding light of Native America and especially Quetzalcoatl. Strangely, in the many interpretations of the Mayan Long Count’s end I did not see a single word about the significance of Venus rising before the sun as it symbolically related to the calendar.

    Light for the love of light sounds good after 200+ years of love of possessing the material underworld. “How do we live in the light and respect the dark?” is one of the smartest questions Whitley has ever posed.

    1. You know of what you spesk.
      You know of what you spesk. It is a plessure to read the real history of this country.

  5. “The Founding Father’s vision
    “The Founding Father’s vision of America has not yet been assimilated by children of immigrants that came to America to find food and land.” from PhyllisDuran

    Read the original source:

    That is SUCH a profound insight and explains SO well some of the stupid politics still playing out in America today, thank you!

  6. This show is an example of
    This show is an example of why I subscribe to Dreamland. A thoughtful, knowledgeable interviewer opening a door to real wisdom I really don’t hear anywhere else. Thanks Whitley.

  7. In the year 1977 I and two
    In the year 1977 I and two aquatances went to Mardi Gras.I Basically for us it was a four day period of drinking vast quatities of alchohol, eating hot dogs smothered in mustard cheese and onions and walking up and down Bourbon Street and the French Quarter. We walked past a voodoo shop a number of times. Every time we walked past, we would comment “We should go in there”. There were four or five steps leading to a two door entrance that opened outwards After about the fifteenth time we all turned to esch other and said, “Let’s go in”. In lockstep we went side by side up the steps and opened the doors. What happened then, until my dying day I will never forget. We walked two steps into thecshop snd were hit with an y ndescribale evil I It was like being slimed without the goo. It was heavy and truly an evil wall of power. We spun around in unison I without looking at each other. wWe marched akimbo out of that shop wiping I our arms and skin . We looked increduiuosly at each other and said,”Did you feel that? What the hell was that? From that day on,I I have had no doubt there is goodness and one God. From that I day on I will never forget that evil truly exists.

  8. Started to watch invocation
    Started to watch invocation of my demon brother on youtube. didn’t get far whitely wasnt joking about the awful music. hard to believe someone as talented as jager could produce such garbage.

  9. This accounts for a feeling
    This accounts for a feeling I’ve long experienced every time I’ve visited the Los Angeles area. I get the queasy feeling that at any time, behind any door, absolutely anything could be going on.

  10. Which sephirot was Eve
    Which sephirot was Eve supposed to have taken as the apple? There is one ‘optional’ sephirot which would make the whole number of them eleven, which is a better number than ten.

  11. Enjoyed the interviews. Would
    Enjoyed the interviews. Would love them to be much longer.

  12. Robert Sullivan’s explanation
    Robert Sullivan’s explanation of what Lucifer really means sounded to me like doublespeak. I’ve read Manley Hall, and he’s written a lot more related to masonry than just 1 book. I don’t buy it, as I’ve read other texts recently from the Masonry books. Even the Order of Eastern Star (women’s version of sorts) has a pentagram for their logo, and has a lot of pre-Chrisitian symbolism/goddess woven thru. Many ex-members have interesting things to say about these group. Sullivan openly commented on how off-putting it is to some Christians that the path is the one you make of it, and not thru God. Many of these beliefs seem to be very ancient and dark… Very interesting interview…

  13. Boy, This Interview was
    Boy, This Interview was great!.And gave me the willies too. I’ll never look at JPL or NASA again like I used too.

  14. “Any fool can run towards the
    “Any fool can run towards the light. It takes a master with courage to turn and face the darkness and shine his own light there.”
    – Leslie Fieger

  15. “Any fool can run towards the
    “Any fool can run towards the light. It takes a master with courage to turn and face the darkness and shine his own light there.”
    – Leslie Fieger

  16. “Any fool can run towards the
    “Any fool can run towards the light. It takes a master with courage to turn and face the darkness and shine his own light there.”
    – Leslie Fieger

  17. There are so many assumptions
    There are so many assumptions and so much dramatic paranoia in these two interviews that I can’t believe I’ve been a paid subscriber for so long.

    Aleister Crowley was in no way ever a Freemason. If you think I’m wrong, post his affiliation here. I know that if you research, you won’t find him in any except what were/are the orders that he created himself or took over and rewrote.
    I happen to know that the only record of him that will be found in Freemasonry is his black balling by the U.G.L.E.
    To associate the ritual based on Crowley (Thelema) with the ritual of Freemasonry is absurd and does a great disservice to those who could and would benefit from being Initiated, Passed, and Raised. These two interviews, the subscriber interview especially, mislead one to think that ritual is all the same because you “wouldn’t perform the ritual in your backyard while your neighbors have a cookout”. WTF! Did he go through the 7 degrees it takes to get to the Royal Arch in a public setting?! I’m sure he didn’t or there would be no ‘reveal’ appeal to his book and was certainly not my experience through these sublime degrees.

    Please, fellow seekers, realize that the so called ‘dark side’ likes very much to use the names and Orders that lead to the light as a cover for our collective misleading. This has caused Freemasonry to be associated with the nefarious.

    Freemasonry was never connected to the Ordo Templi Orientis. The O.T.O. claimed to make masons. It was never claimed in reverse.

    There is also more than one O.T.O. The original continues to this day as it existed before Crowley rewrote the degrees to fit Liber Legis (the Book of the Law). The O.T.O. that is prevalent in L.A. and in the world at large is the one based on Crowley’s teachings.

    The tossing about of labels ill defined does not help humanity progress. It is the same as saying electricity or fire is evil because it can hurt those who use it unwisely. Not all ritual leads to darkness.

    These interviews struck a nerve with me because I am a 32 degree, Knight Templar Freemason who is in possession of the Word of the Royal Arch. I also spent many years studying Aleister Crowley and have been an associate to the O.T.O.

    Please do proper research and avoid paranoia.
    I challenge Unknown Country to interview others on this subject. It is most vital that clarity be achieved. The darkness thrives on ambiguity.
    Re interview Timothy Hogan. He is one who knows.
    Seek an interview with Dr. Paul Clark of the Fraternity of the Hidden Light who can give a much more thorough and beautiful understanding of ritual and it’s use to lift humanity to the light.
    As for Aleister Crowley, interview the people who have direct experience with his teaching.
    Try Lon Milo DuQuette or Richard Kaczynski who wrote an excellent scholastic study of his life.

    Avoid paranoia. Seek truth and let no other seek for you.

    ‘All is vanity. All is vanity’
    Plus Luminis!

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