First, Andrew Collins takes us to the magical region around Stonehenge and reports on the huge and mysterious shafts that have just been found there and what they may mean. Learn more about Andrew’s work at

Then David Halperin joins Whitley. While David and Whitley have been friends for a long time, this is David’s first appearance on Dreamland. When he was younger he was a UFO investigator, and never lost his interest in UFOs. He now has a take on them which, to judge from this deep, friendly interview, Whitley finds as interesting as we think you will. David is not a UFO believer. He is not a UFO skeptic. He isn’t an agnostic on the subject, either.

So what’s left? That would be the axis of this discussion–at times deep, at times hilarious, often mind-bending as two friends who face the same mystery in different ways come together to explore it.

You will not often have heard anywhere such a completely frank discussion of things like the sexuality issue as it relates to the close encounter experience, or found information about things like the Great Airship Mystery of 1898 explored in quite this way.

Two friends on different sides of a fence lean across it for a chat. But what IS the fence? They both admit it: they don’t know!

Join them on the fence, it’s a great place to hang out and just wonder…

David’s website is To get Intimate Alien or Andrew Collins’ Denisovian Mysteries, visit our store. Click here.

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  1. Incredible show, thanks. Both guests were great.

    Now, I want to talk about the voice of David Halperin. To me, it is the voice of someone who has been flying above the void and peering into it for a long time. An old soul. Sometimes the tones are more important to me than the lyrics. And David’s song has tones that stretch back so far and so deep. Like a dragon that’s been perched watching the world since before humanity breathed its first breath.

    1. Andy1111, this is one of the most beautiful comments I’ve ever received! Thank you so much!

  2. This is a virtual reality. Constantly created by our Self imagining it. Like a dream. And experiencing it. Each of us and our experiences our divine Self is experiencing.
    I would use the word “God” for our creator Self, but this being made by a Turkish Muslim organisation, they used the word “Allah.”
    “The Secret Beyond Matter Harun Yahya”
    By taking on the human experience, no longer enjoying what as God we enjoyed, as God we have all given our Life for the humans. That also they would have and enjoy what as God we enjoyed.
    Is is the One who gave His Life for the humans Who is reading this now in human appearance.

  3. The mystics have called the soul “the throne of God.” And our body “the temple of God.”
    “The Vision of Ezekiel”
    “Wheels Within Wheels: The First Vision of Ezekiel”
    Jesus said his kingdom was not of this world, that he was not from this world, and neither are those who believe… nowadays we would call that “extra-terrestrial.”

  4. Hi Whitley, How’s about having a section for reccomended reading? Of course your books, but how about books you would suggest? Lots of time to read right now. Good time to delve into my psychic powers. 😉

  5. Hello, again, Whitley.

    What a fascinating program with the discussions with both of your guests. Andrew Collins always brings interesting topics and developments to this show. As for David Halperin, I think this is the first time I’ve heard from or of him. Listening to what you and he had to say to each other, here’s a few thoughts that came to my mind:

    1) On the topic of you believing that the experiences with “the Visitors” (my quotation marks and capitalization) represent a relationship with the dead, a stance of yours that you’ve mentioned many times in the past, I was wondering if you are familiar with the claim made, during his life, by Maj. Wayne Sulo Aho that the unseen Visitor encounter experience he had when he was a boy of 12 years old lead to him asking, years later in 1948, at the scene of a plane crash with no survivors and where U.F.O.’s had reportedly been seen in the area for 3 days after the crash, “Who are those strange beings flying their craft at the scene and why are they there?” and the telepathic response was, “We are the caretakers of the souls of the dead.”

    You can find this reference in the audio program at The Saucer Life (by Aaron Gulyas) here at the at approximately the 5 minutes and 5 second mark.

    2) If David Halperin believes that the various U.F.O. experiences are inner experiences of a visionary nature (although he acknowledges the reported shaking of hands with a pilot of one of the 1890’s air ships), does he think that it’s all a projection of the minds of the experiencers? If so, how does he account for the numerous trace cases involving irradiated soil; damaged plants; etc.? Does he believe the experiencers’ minds create these physical effects?

    3) As you know, the Fatima Portugal events of 1917 (not mentioned in this particular program of yours) have been given an alternative explanation as a U.F.O./being encounter and not the Christian/Catholic one that it has mostly come to be known as.

    4) I’ve either heard or, more likely, read that Jacques Vallée has said that some of the views he held when he wrote “Passport to Magonia” are views that he no longer holds.

    5) Have you ever read Ian Watson’s sci-fi book, “Miracle Visitors” in which it is posited that there exists a level of “U.F.O. consciousness” within humans that can give rise to seeming objective external physical manifestations? The book starts out with a schoolboy having a U.F.O./beings sexual encounter and, years later, under hypnosis, the state of “U.F.O. consciousness” is reached again, causing many bizarre phenomena to be physically experienced. There’s also a secondary theme running parallel in the book having to do with middle-Eastern thought on “Karama” (unexpected guidance/help from elsewhere) and the Green Man (*not* meaning “little green men”) figures of myth and legend. The experiences, in the book, of the real-seeming E.T.’s makes for a fascinating read in light of what David Halperin’s stance seems to be in this dialogue with him.


    1. Thank you for the link to that story of the non-terrestrial beings saying they are the care takers of the dead.
      That is what is said about the angels, and there are countless stories of people who experienced NDEs saying they were received by those not in the flesh.
      As for the difference between the Aliens and ETs, the first every human knows, but not every human is consciously aware of the ETs and who they are:
      ËT 101

    2. Mark, thank you for these very thoughtful comments.
      The trace cases are indeed baffling, and I don’t have any good explanation for them. The one that I find most difficult is Socorro, NM, April 24, 1964. The sole witness, Lonnie Zamora, could very well have made the marks himself. But that would mean he was a liar and a hoaxer, while everyone who knew him regarded him as an upright lawman and solid citizen.
      If you pushed me into a corner, I would have to say that he must have hoaxed the incident. But I find this explanation very unsatisfying.
      And yet … if we were actually being visited by physical craft for the past 70+ years, is it not strange that these truly puzzling cases should be so very sparse?
      On Fatima, Jeff Kripal has made some very brilliant comments. Indeed there’s a UFO connection, but not that people saw space visitors and misinterpreted them as the sacred figures of Catholicism–rather, that there’s a shared phenomenon that can sometimes be conventionalized as the one, sometimes as the other.
      And the “Green Man” (al-Khidr?) … I think there’s an intimate connection with the “little green men,” who are almost never reported in connection with UFOs but remain an indestructible trope in the popular conception of them. I think the answer lies in human religious psychology, and I’ve posted on this on my blog.
      Thanks again for commenting!

      1. Hello, David:

        Thank you for your reply.

        I, too, doubt that the then police officer, Lonnie Zamora, faked his sighting claim and made the traces that investigators found.

        There was a U.F.O. investigator that specialized in trace cases, of which he learned of many of those. I thought it was Len Stringfield, but I’m not sure. There’s a free .pdf file about such cases, compiled by Ted Philips. You can find it here:

        I wasn’t aware of the Jeff Kripal comments about Fatima. I may look into that. Thanks.

        Yes, al-Khidr is the Islamic-related individual that became a saint to Muslim mystics (the Sufis, in particular) and is associated with “the Green Man,” although the latter is also a name and reference to the pagan (I don’t use that word in the negative) nature “god”/being. ( )

        Thanks, again.


  6. Andrew Collins, one of my MOST FAVORITE researchers and guest. Thank you Andrew and Whitley for this intriguing interview. I am looking forward to the next interview in regards to the book both Andrew and Greg little are writing.

    David Halperin, this was a great listen and good to hear YOUR view on so many topics.

    (((Luxenborough, Nr Stonehenge, Wiltshire))). Reported 16th July.

    Updated Saturday 18th  July 2020

    “Why was this new crop picture drawn within a long, curved, natural “gully” in the field, starting in the approximate location of Stonehenge, then continuing on toward a square clump of trees nearby?”

  7. I was thinking the other week about how many artists take inspiration from dreams (also many engineers and scientists for that matter) … and when they put brush to canvas, or pen to paper, or whatever, they are effectively manifesting into reality a massively creative force within them. It seems to me that they are acting as a conduit from that world to this. I was also wondering whether the paranormal, super-natural etc. might just be a more direct version of this same connecting force at work, the only difference being that nature itself is the canvas. The connection, in both scenarios, as ever, being consciousness. I still wonder though, in the case of the paranormal, who’s hand is doing the ‘painting’? I suppose you could ask the same question of a dream.

  8. I think Andrew Collins is on to something regarding the resonant frequency of those pits. At first, I thought they might be vibrating at the Schuman resonance frequency (just below 8Hz) but after investigating the resonance of various cylinders, both closed and open, it seems it would require an open cylinder of 20+ metres and a closed cylinder of 10+ metres to make that work …so it makes sense for it to be a higher frequency (around 17Hz) associated with inducing altered states, which only requires around 5 metres depth.

  9. Actually, thinking about it, the frequencies that are known to generate altered states, are actually harmonics of the Schuman resonance…so that really does make sense.

  10. Author

    I am hoping that people will listen and remember the pleasures of friendly discussion between people who disagree. This was the founding principle of our country. Our republic cannot work without civil discourse. Both the left and the right now take a “my way or the highway” approach. This is not America.

  11. Interesting discussion with David. The suggestion that we are behind this phenomenon is hard to wrap my brain around. In support of that view, I recall a show, not sure when or where, that teenagers going through puberty were the cause of their own possessions. Also, the show Peter Levenda did with Ian Punet a while back suggested similar explanations.

  12. This is one of the most pivotal Dreamland shows I’ve ever heard.
    Through a combination of the quality of the voices of both David and Whitley, the content, the free thinking conjecture and the discussion of Sheela Na Gig, I found myself drawn, almost hypnotically, deeper into a mist like fascination and wonder.
    You think you have embraced an area of study and experience and then along comes a discussion like this and..


      “Sheela na gigs are figurative carvings of naked women displaying an exaggerated vulva. They are architectural grotesques found all over Europe on cathedrals, castles, and other buildings. The highest concentrations can be found in Ireland, Great Britain, France and Spain, sometimes together with male figures.”

      1. Thank you so much to Andrew Collins and to Whitley.
        This episode is wonderful. I live on the edge of Ilkley Moor; home to the Cup and Ring petraglyphs that Andrew talks about. Me and my young children have been finding and photographing the petraglyphs and the stone circles on the surrounding moors.

        I have also been fortunate enough over the years to witness at very close proximity some of the strange lights in the sky that have been seen here for thousands of years.

        My children have expressed their connection with the phenomenon and it’s timelessness.

  13. Is consciousness simply an additional set of physical dimensions the String Theory physicists have predicted are out there? Waking consciousness could represent a single dimension, dream experiences a second, out-of-body a third, and so on. I may be trying too hard to shoehorn my thoughts into what I already understand.

    I see a parallel between us and fish in 3D space and the visitors and us in consciousness. We are able to explore the underwater world to which fish are perfectly adapted, but only for a short time. Both of our species have adapted perfectly to inhabit our own versions of 3D space.

    I think the same can be said for consciousness. Could it be the visitors have acquired an understanding of consciousness gained by their evolutionary path to meet their specific needs? And like a fish jumping in the middle of the lake, we can have an OBE and glimpse the world the visitors have evolved to master.

    If consciousness is simply a set of physical dimensions, then the physical evidence Whitley describes resulting from these ethereal encounters makes more sense as well. If I am basically repeating someone else’s ideas that I did not comprehend fully when I came across them, my apologies.

  14. There was much nourishing food for thought in the talk with David Halperin…

    I began to understand over 30 years ago that so many of my own strange experiences , from UFOs and cryptids to time slips and other anomalous experiences, were somehow different manifestations of the same thing. I didn’t know what that ’ thing’ was, other than the main common denominator was—me. Over time, my experiences grew to include others as experiencers/witnesses of the same event. Great! So, I felt a little less weird when I could actually talk to someone and say, “ Do you remember that time when…?”.

    I also began paying attention to more things and questioning myself as well. What was I thinking, saying, and doing in the time immediately before the event occurred? Looking back on older events, I have also tried to remember what was going on in my life during that period of time, and have picked up on some things that appear to correlate with certain experiences.

    What if we are all creators/co-creators of this reality, and the differences between individuals is one that is by degrees, not unlike degrees of creativity between artists? Some of us are Picassos, while others may be more like Van Gogh. Some of us have not even mastered crayons, while others still haven’t even picked up a crayon for the first time. Of course, we also act as teachers/guides, as well as students, in this creation of reality.

    Your thoughts on this, Mr. Halperin?

  15. I enjoyed your show with David Halperin. You two are an intelllectual match and each interaction carries respect and curiosity.
    This show made me think of a book called At the Mind’s Limits by Jean Amery, who recognizes how imprisonment and torture can sabotage the use of language. He was a scholar, philosopher, and writer before he went to the Camps, but that all was lost to him during the time he was imprisoned. Once a fragment of a poem made its way into his mind. He recognized the five words and said them over and over but the rest of the poem never came to him.
    I thought that the discussion between you two about the mystery of language was so interesting. It seems as if language is dependent on many factors that can both encourage or destroy its use.
    Amery also found language profoundly inadequate in describing his experience in the Camps.

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