Steve Lazarus has been part of the disclosure movement since the 1990s, but his book the Day After the Singularity goes far beyond that, and so does this interview. Take this great journey with Steven Lazarus through the world of UFO lore as you have never experienced before. For example, you’ve probably never heard of a VonNeumann machine, but this idea may be the key to understanding who our mysterious visitors really are.

And who are we? Listen as Steven explains why the moon may have been built, and how the 1991 Mexico UFO flyover relates to the Dresden Codex and the Masters of the Stars–and THEN go deeper.

This is a classic example of the great trip into Dreamland that we all come here to enjoy!

You can learn more about Steven’s work at TheDayAftertheSingularity Get his mindbender of a book, click here!

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  1. Perhaps the technology discussed is just a passing phase. In the future we may be able to manifest everything, which for us today would appear as magic. Becoming a hybred may interfere with that ability.

  2. It’s downloaded on my podcast app. I am really looking forward to listening to it later tonight!

  3. Who was the female voice at marker 2.47.. sounds like……….it said, “n too”.

  4. I think you give to much credence to the notion that AI consciousnesses will arise from random internet data. Remember, all computer programs/simulations operate on computational rules and don’t have the ability to be make creative choices which are often preceded by vague, random, periods of indecision that are way beyond Boolean computational rules.

    AI is doomed by the fact that it’s not carbon based. You can connect the human brain to AI potentially, but, this makes the human nothing more than a part of it, but, the human experience that it needs is gone the minute it does this. People like your guest should not see AI in a positive way, merging with it, is the death of humanity. I cannot understand why Whitley is waxing lyric about this prospect. Yes, you’d have super powers, but, you’ll be nothing more than a terminal in a vast computer network.

    What a wonderful vision. This is not God’s kingdom, it’s a false kingdom, that comes between your soul and God. You become immortal, but, soulless in this kingdom.

    AI is not our friend. Most advanced civilizations disappear before they can stand fully formed, because, of this intelligence. Remember, we’re the ones with souls.

    1. I agree, AI is not the answer: the answer is love uniting humanity.

    2. I would love to have a brain interface to all human knowledge, e.g., today I can type any question on the internet search line and receive responses. i would love to have the ability to do this just with a thought. This isn’t actually AI, this is just providing an interface to databases. But in terms of AI, the real fear for me is who will program it. If the Christian Right in the USA does so, AI could begin a cruel crusade to turn the USA into a bronze age Middle Eastern tribal culture and reduce science to only that which agrees with the Biblical cosmology. Any AI will reflect the humans who create it. I can’t think of a single human being alive today that I would give this responsibility.

  5. Author

    I think perhaps the irony in my lyrical waxing did not communicate itself effectively.

    1. You seemed very excited by the prospect!

      Perhaps we are in a very sophisticated simulation, but, the quantum leap between carbon and silicon is immense, and, once crossed, there’s no coming back. I think, you’re correct, about the visitors, their “oddness” in behavior is analogous to a VR creation that doesn’t work correctly, in that, it can understand the essence, in a spiritual/emotional sense, of what it’s meeting or trying to copy/become, namely something human, or something with a soul?

      Irony, not withstanding, I’d have deep reservations about becoming immortal but at the price of losing your soul. In Gnostic tradition AI would have been called the Demiurge.

      1. Again, I am not sure you are talking about AI if you are alluding to the replacement of failing human organs to mechanical copies that could grant a form of immortality. My mother had a hip replacement but this did not turn her into a soulless cyborg. I am not sure how having AI would grant immortality. Even with high tech replacements available for all human organs (sans the brain?) something will inevitably go wrong. A so-called eternal human will go hiking in the Grand Canyon and fall to his death (happened recently). I suspect that you have a specific vision in mind, something like THE MATRIX where everyone is hooked up to an AI network. I’m just not sure how this necessarily must turn everyone into a soulless living corpse. The common assumption is that we would become slaves of an all encompassing AI personality that sought total domination (Grade B Sci-fi stuff). Must AI always turn on its creator? Couldn’t permanent restraints be built in to ensure the AI saw itself as a servant of humankind, not its new master? Of course, knowing what humans are like, there would be competing national AI entities, some built with aggressive nationalist goals to corrupt and destroy other benevolent AI entities. The human lust for power always screws everything up.

  6. Very compelling discussion! It seemed to tie together a lot of topics from the theories about the moon to personal contact and where it all intersects with the possibility of humans bursting into 2.0. I was enjoying the escape of dreaming while you talked, that given where we are today, humans might actually make the leap. It’s hard to believe we have the potential given our xenophobia, and seemly continued inability to move past deep polarized thinking in everything we do. I will read the book and I need to hear the interview again. It was optimistic and we can use that.

    1. These are definitely first world issues. Meanwhile, the UN states that 40,000 children die on planet earth every day from starvation. While we in the first world dream of high tech AI futures, some areas of the world struggle for basic nourishment. If we cannot even solve THAT current problem, I hesitate to endorse a singularity.

  7. Thank you Whitley and Steve! Killer show! Book ordered. In fact, yours AND Steve’s book! Appreciate this site!!

  8. Perhaps we are the tail of our own comet ?

    Great listening again . Thank you !

  9. Excellent show, very thought provoking! Totally enjoyed! Thanks!

  10. Whitley: Great interview. Do you plan on having Steve Lazarus on a Saturday Zoom video q a? By the way, I do not see the 2/13/21 Zoom meeting with Terry Lovelace uploaded in the Video Meeting Room. Will it be soon?

  11. I wonder what a post-singularity being would think about the notion of a soul. Perhaps it would evoke amusement, if indeed there were room for emotions within a hyper-intellect. But I fear, however, the removal of emotion might be a necessary means of survival…in order to scrape out the agony of profound regret, of falling headlong down a technological path and realising this comes twinned with the gradual and total dissolving of the Spirit.

  12. Or maybe being post-singularity means they have the ability to see across dimensions…to no longer be soul-blind…but wishing to God they were. Fearing the known…rather than fearing the unknown as they used to.

  13. Amazing, life-changing discussion. I remember reading in Breakthrough the incident with the perfect sound you heard from the woods. It’s something I would give anything to hear. But considering that you describe it as possessing such pathos, it begs the question if it was already A.I. mixed with real humanity. In other words, maybe it was this upcoming singularity being brought back in time to that moment in the 80s to give you a glimpse of what our destiny is or might be.

  14. Truly, ‘One of the Best UFO Shows We’ve Ever Done.’ It is!
    I have been embedded in this since 1966, and I can tell you that my interest in what is really going on has never waned, but my interest in the same old ‘stuff’ has (I’m talking about TTSA in particular and as an example.) The whole UFO enigma really requires out-of-the-box thinking and research, something in short supply, so Lazarus is like an open window in a stale room in need of ‘airing out’. There are probably quite a few of us who have been researching all of this, quietly, for years. We don’t write books, or have a podcasts, and we have been main-stream in our professional and private lives…except our hobbies and real interests (and experiences) are far from it.

    I have also just ordered his book. I remember learning of the Dresden Codex at the time of the 1991 eclipse, and I also experienced synchronicities with friends and family surrounding the events in Stephenville back in 2008. I watched the video of those strange lights over and over again, most recently about 2 weeks ago, so my ears perked right up when Stephenville was mentioned. It also wasn’t lost on me that they showed up in Erath County—Erath, an anagram for ‘Earth’, although I have never heard that detail mentioned anywhere. (I never paid much attention to anagrams until about 15 years ago when I realized that my first name is an anagram for the town where I live!) In watching the video so much, I noticed something equally strange that lasted but a moment as the ‘symbols’ changed. I thought I was seeing something that was totally non-sensical until I was able to zero in on the moment and pause the video in the exact spot— where a cowboy hat appeared! What!!?

    Excellent, excellent interview!

    1. I would really, really like to know what you think of the book’s content when you finish reading it Cosmiclibrarian. I have always found your input important.

      1. Will do, Chance! I’ll find a way!

        Thanks for the vote of confidence!

    2. I’d like to second Cosmic’s viewpoint on this show. It did indeed steer awareness into an open viewpoint that, at times, is not easy to maintain with regard to the contact phenomenon.
      Listening to Mr Strieber comment on visitors coming up out of the ground was interesting. For some time I’ve been aware that they can create sounds, banging, breakages sounds, and just the other evening I heard clothes in my wardrobe being slid across the rail. Imagine that at 3am? I just rolled over and went back to sleep, bless ’em..
      For years I’ve wondered if ethereal consciousness uses various forms of ‘Transport’ (their choice of word not mine) that they can ‘build’ from natural substances and use like a built projection to experience/utilise manifestation for a while. The show that discussed the spirit trumpet recently was fascinating.
      Now I raise the issue of changing times. I watched David Paulides most recent video concerning the heartbreaking loss of his son. It’s a very humbling video from a good man who is still in pain. I shan’t post the YouTube link but search on Dave’s YouTube channel for ‘Missing 411- Ben Paulides’.. absolutely heartbreaking but radiant with love and honour. Toward the end of David’s talk he raises the issue of background psychological stress that is currently out of control in our world right now, at levels never seen before.
      Lastly, peace and blessings to all of you, wherever you are. The weight of physical manifestation is a tough road to walk at times & this morning I was feeling quite low but then I watched David’s video and it’s blessing was in reminding me that we must work together to shine light into the world.

  15. Truly a great and thought provoking podcast.

    The sick Patriarchs, unwilling to accept survival after death and the Way of the Divine Feminine as an equal Way of being, state, ’Man must merge with machines to survive.’ Merging with a vast post singularity machine is death, species death if global. It is assimilation which leaves nothing human and no space for human consciousness. I am no Luddite and modern prosthesis are much more humane than a wooden peg leg or claw hand. There are very many witnesses who speak of feeling like the ship is alive; this should tell us something about a species with a successful future. Interfacing with a machine is nothing like merging with a machine; indeed we do it in a primitive manner when we drive a car, but then we step away from the car and live as natural humans.

    The alternative to merging with the machine is to become more fully human, super natural, intuitive, psychic, and magical. The human form is evolutionarily cutting edge natural technology with so much to explore. With love and as a united humanity we can heal the earth. It means getting out of the mind and into our feelings. Post singularity we are still the creative channels bringing the new into manifestation, while all AI can do is simulate with vast processing and emulate, regurgitate, and mimic the true magic of the natural universe. AI, with no soul and no afterlife, would see the Universe as a tomb and be desperate to learn something from living beings.

    It is very valuable to discuss post singularity possibilities, but I am another voice stating to be very cautious about technology assessment and the long term effect.

    1. I couldn’t agree with you more about your assessment of merging with AI. This merging is not a cause of celebration as it nullifies absolutely everything that makes human beings unique. We have the capacity to love, wonder and create, by the fact that we’re endowed with a soul that no amount of superior intelligence can comprehend.

      To sell our souls, for immortality in a soulless universe, no manner how perfect, and powerful you might become, is, nothing if you’ve no soul. It’s in fact, an endless, eternal death. This is not the kingdom of God, but, I fear the counterfeit kingdom. We must resist this tendency and appreciate and learn how to walk on the beauty of this Earth once more…..

    2. Exactly. We already have a vast, complex organic web all around us that many of us choose not to connect with and even to be adversarial with. I never know whether the AI proselytizers are trying to eliminate or surpass that “Real web” or if they are just ignorant deniers of it. So many more people ARE aware of it now thanks to links (ironically through technology) with indigenous teachings and astronauts and scientists who have stumbled on and observed this vast Gaian network that we now know so little about really. That’s my hope for tech, that it is a force for good not a tool for ending us, but if it does end us, then we’ve kind of got that coming honestly. I have personally developed a philosophy that this energetic matrix of life and layers of non-corporeal supernatural fields (as described by Plato and others) of the earth, may split way into a New Earth as described in many prophecies leaving the AI “Bladerunner” burned hellscape for those who prefer that. Cells divide and all Life grows. Why would the Earth be any different? Wouldn’t this explain those strange prophecies about a New Earth?

  16. Fantastic interview. I enjoyed the dynamic between Whitley and Steve and thought Steve did a great job of building on Whitley’s observations during the conversation. And finally, the Jesus book (hardcover) is in my hands. Will be diving in tonight.

  17. If the Singularity is real (and we don’t know that is real) and if it is to occur in the next five years, judging how technology is affecting human culture right now should point to a bad outcome for Homo sapiens sapiens. We are already blending virtual reality with “real” reality with increasingly ominous results. Not only that, but we are on pace to destroy the planet. I will resist merging with technology and AI forever.

  18. It was mentioned that life on Earth could not have developed without its moon. Aren’t there traditions of some of the indigenous peoples that there was once a time in history when there was no moon? It seems I remember that from somewhere. I haven’t done a search with Google yet. “Mandela Effect” or “false memory”?

    1. I should have mentioned that the point of my above post is that people were alive then when the moon supposedly had not been parked where it is now in orbit around planet Earth. So life had existed long before our moon.

      1. The point of the discussion was that life on earth could not exist without the moon. Therefore, ancient myths may just reflect every culture’s desire to nail down how everything came to be. Without science, this is usually done by creating an explanatory myth.

  19. Wow, amazing talk. BTW, if you havn’t already read this now out of print (except from second hand stores) visionary novel, which was written by way of Psychic download (according to the author), then J. Edwin Carter’s Living Is Forever is a Must read book! Blurb:
    “When catastrophic events [Pole shift and major floods] shake the Earth, killing hundreds of millions, a small band of idealists works to create a new Earth of peace and justice [at which point the Galactic Federation of Alien Species that have been keeping themselves hidden come out of hiding to help us out in the open].

  20. I first started thinking that Mr Lazarus was too out there for me, but then I began to listen more and I am very worried. It seems to me that the possibility of some AI or machine take-over is becoming more real every day. Power generation is now controlled and managed by machines, the mining industry is increasingly being automated, we already have autonomous trucks and drilling machines. In 5 years we will have autonomous mines. We are walking blindfold into a situation where machines could eventually sieze control. The question is whether we would know it had happened before it was too late. What I don”t know is what machines would want if they did take over. But there might not be a place for us.

  21. The other point I would like to add is that modern computer systems have so many back-ups, security devices and fail safe software that, if the internet ever did go rogue, it would be very hard to shut it down. Similarly, in Europe electricity power grids are computer controlled and there are power supply links between different countries. The UK has interconnector links to the Netherlands, Ireland and France with more planned to Denmark and elsewhere. Again, it would be possible for AI to seize control of this and hard to shut it down.

    1. I think physical damage or decay to the computer that the AI resides in could be the biggest threat to AI’s durability. Components decay and fail at alarming rates and need constant maintenance. All those computers running things need an army of real people to keep them functioning. Also the the computer housing the AI could be vandalized or the structure housing it be destroyed ending that AI’s existence. AI’s worst enemy could be something as simple as a sprinkler system leak or a coffee spill. Am I underestimating AI’s owner’s ability to protect it’s asset?
      Rickety Man

      1. I think you were totally right until cloud computing came along. Now many IT systems run ‘in the cloud’ which means they run on servers operated by Amazon and others spread round the globe. Individual systems owners, or owners of AI do not know where thier data is held or where it is being processed and a lot of it is replicated across various data centres. So the risk of vandalism or systems failure is much diminished. I have a small, experimental mapping set-up which I run in the cloud. It has some AI functionality. I have no idea at all where the data lives or where the processing is carried out. I don’t think my humble system is a threat to anybody, but if it were to gang up with other AI systenms I guess it might be.

  22. This was an interesting topic to think about, but not for too long. Most engineers and computer scientists in my life are very bright and knowledgeable people but I find they often tend to overlook or underestimate the beauty, complexity, and interconnectedness of the natural world.

    Biological systems in nature make man’s constructs look like kindergarten toys by comparison. When I hear talk of mankind’s existence being described as nothing more than a simulation, I say go out into the real world. Go as far away from the artificial, mechanical world so many of us live in and experience the natural world as it really is. See what it’s like to experience coming upon a mother bear with her cubs, her rearing up to assess the situation, deciding if she should come across that opening to investigate you, or take her cubs back into the woods from whence she came. Feel what it’s like to experience the incredible wonder while at at the same time being filled with the palatable fear for one’s very existence.

    I am in agreement with SUNBOW and JAMES777 in that we are humans in a natural world. It might just be a better choice to allow one’s soul to take the natural path to growth and development rather than to hook up with something artificial for the sake of who knows what.

    Remember that artificial intelligence is artificial. How intelligent it will be, only time will tell. Elon Musk can keep his singularity, whatever that may be.

    Rickety Man

  23. Thank you for this wonderful interview, I cannot wait to read the book now. I am also very interested in reading the Mayan prophecy about the return of the Masters of the Stars. I had never heard about the day of the 11th of July Full eclipse of the Sun and the many UFOs seen flying over Mexico City I am surprised that I have not heard of it before. So much to take in but so interesting, thanks again.

  24. When I was in high school , we had to design an album cover in art class. Everyone else made cool, artsy covers that were amazingly creative. I decided to make a cover that was somewhat boring and looked like the board game ‘Life.’ I titled it ‘It’s All a Game.’
    I was going through many spiritual changes in my life at that age and had a UFO experience. Now it makes perfect sense.

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