Linda Moulton Howe joins Whitley for Dreamland’s first show of the new year–and it’s a wild one! Could there really be a war among alien species over who gets access to mankind–with one seeking to enlighten us, others to exploit, and some perhaps to destroy?

Or is this just the way it looks, and if so, can we EVER comprehend what is going on here?

Enjoy this intense, speculative conversation, the first show in what promises to be the 24th great year of  Whitley Strieber’s Dreamland!

Visit Linda on her YouTube channel and her homepage,

To learn more about the Observers and watch this terrific documentary with Linda, Whitley, Lue Elizondo, Deb Kauble, Richard Dolan, Jesse Ventura, William Henry and Jimmy Church, click here.

And while you’re at it, if you’re not an subscriber, how about starting the new year off right! Click here to see our inexpensive plans.

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  1. I listen to Linda and to you every week and you are both the best. Reasons being the purity of your spiritual lights. So clear, so clean and so authentic. It is a privilege to go on this journey with you both.

  2. Another comment I have is that we must fix our problems here. Knowing or going into space will just be the same old thing, if the elites in our society control space as well as everything else. How about starting with child poverty, famine and disease here on Earth? I don’t think the ET’s get involved with these issues. They leave these to us to solve. I liked Eshed’s comment they need our help to understand the fabric of our Universe. I love Loeb’s comment that we are the product of a civilization that can create Universe’s. They don’t understand this and they want our help to do so we’re all in this together – I call these entities the Creators in the last book in my series. That is the puzzle we are all trying to solve who why and what!.

  3. I really appreciate the turn of the conversation starting at about 1:20. This is what is on my mind and heart, too. The illusion described by the post Whitley described can be explained by Girard’s profound work on mimesis, a human trait that effectively traps us in a house of mirrors. I had already concluded through my own lifetime of research and experience that “the fall” I learned about as a child from the Bible, was about the fall into duality/polarity, a.k a. separation, which is how this world operates (not unlike the zeros and ones of a computer). I’m not sure it was intentional, like God’s plan, as has been argued by many scholars and theologians as well as new age pontificators over the millenia and in recent decades. It may have been a group of rogue “angels,” a.k.a. daemons, who went rogue and downloaded themselves into the early hominids before the cake was baked so to speak. Thus, the unity of consciousness was split in the human avatar suit and here we are. If you parse out the warmongering, fear, control, and polarizing parts in the Bible, you’ve pretty much got Jesus. And imitating him, like the old school religion says, is our best hope and goal as we are creatures of mimesis after all. It’s rather ironic to me that after decades of exploring so many alternative spiritual practices, an agnostic decade or two, and plenty of deep dives into cultural history and anthropology, what I learned as a child in sunday school about Jesus may actually be the way, the Truth, and the Light. Oddly enough, I always believed that Jesus’ ascending was meant to show us what we all can do, not that we should worship him per se.

    1. Very interesting observations! And it would make sense, at least to me it does. If we are made in the image and likeness of God, then everything…EVERYTHING is more than a reflection of God, it is a manifestation of God. The best way to be in this Universe would be to follow the example of Jesus. If we are co-creating our reality, why not follow the example of Jesus?

      1. Right. And/or Buddha and/or Moses/Mohammad/Bahá’u’lláh etc.

        1. It just seems unbelievable to me that two different races of ETs have been “fighting” over Earth for millions of years. That doesn’t seem very advanced at all. It seems pretty immature. They should try mediation. duh.

          1. Author

            Linda is convinced of this. I just can’t see it quite the same way she does, unless, as she says in the show, it’s part of the fundamental nature of the universe for there to be Yin and yang. If that’s the case it looks like a war perhaps, but it’s actually more a way of being. I have to say I hope it’s not the case.

  4. Master of the Key: Your demons make you strong

    we are being powered along (partially) by our materialism and greed for more. Next iphone, etc.

    1. Yes indeed. I believe the more accurate translation of “the meek shall inherit the earth” is “the warrior who can keep his sword sheathed shall inherit the earth”

  5. Very good and interesting. One thing should be corrected though (even though i’m sure what i’m writing below is what you actually meant, but its an important distinction). As my Anthropology teacher taught in college, it is wrong to talk about different ethnicities as races. There is one human race, as genetic biology confirms. And our multicoloreď human race has different ethnicities which are based not on skin color but “is a grouping of people who identify with each other on the basis of shared attributes that distinguish them from other groups” (Wikipedia). Now changing the subject. I think that anyone, including extraterrestrials, who listens to/acts out of ego/selfishness is listening to their inner “demon”. And when we act in service to others and out of love we are turning ourselves into angels.

    1. I disagree with your professor’s mixing up of the term race and ethnicity and don’t see the point of all of this sort of thing. It’s okay to acknowledge that there are various races within the human species; each with distinguishing characteristics. “Ethnicity” is a far broader term that involves cultural association, national origin and a host of other factors.

      1. “Today, scientists consider such biological essentialism obsolete, and generally discourage racial explanations for collective differentiation in both physical and behavioral traits.
        …there is a broad scientific agreement that essentialist and typological conceptions of race are untenable… the scientific community suggest that the idea of race is inherently naive or simplistic. …among humans, race has no taxonomic significance because all living humans belong to the same subspecies, Homo sapiens sapiens.” (Wikipedia)

  6. Sublime. The audio equivalent of a cup final between the two top teams in the league. Loved it thank you 🙂

  7. Larry Silverstein owned Building 7 as well as the Twin Towers. He increased the insurance on the Trade Center shortly before 9/11.

    There is a war going on, a spiritual war in the Universe. All of the Kingdoms are involved and are interconnected. Focusing on ETs is too limiting when we are running out of time.

    Last week on the day after the anniversary of the Wounded Knee Massacre, Peter Champoux and Chief Henry Red Cloud were interviewed on Kili Radio on Pine Ridge about the Masonic control at the Wounded Knee Massacre and till today at the site of the massacre to hold back Native Americans and humanity. Two minutes before their interview, Kili Radio lost the ability to broadcast out and record. As Peter Champoux noted, we are engaged in spiritual warfare. The second half hour was broadcast out and Mike Clelland was able to record it from Seattle. At the end of the interview, Henry Red Cloud called for the Lakota tribe to pull down the arch at Wounded Knee to release those souls trapped there and release ultimately humanity. This release will impact every person on our planet and allow the development of spirituality and spiritual gifts for all people.

    We are working to return the remains and possessions of the people at Wounded Knee. Almost 20 years ago, the hair of Chief Big Foot was returned to the Oglala Tribe and released through ceremony. His remains are most likely in the Smithsonian in Washington, DC. This month I am going to a historical society in Massachusetts where the Wounded Knee remains are currently located. I have been authorized by the tribe to represent them. Once these items and others are released in ceremony, the frequency will rise. The unseen and the spirits who have passed on are working overtime to help us. Let this be the year when all of us become activists. We are doomed if knowledgeable people do not stand up.

    The satanic influence on our world is pervasive in every area of our life. Which alien race is responsible for that?

    Clean out your own temples/souls. Resolve outstanding issues and tell the truth. That will align your body, mind and spirit.

    Happy New Year!

    1. yes, Mia, I agree that rsising our own vibration and level of humanity is more pivotal that the assessment of blame on any phenoemena in our environment. blessings-

  8. Great episode, one of my favorites. For me it comes down how credible Linda’s sources are. Just one or two holding truth is truly game changing. Linda’s comments on the Greys and the different types was a little concerning……they play all sides?

    I enjoyed the exchange. There was certainly different views between you guys but you made it about the subject and not yourselfs, good job.

  9. Enthralling Podcast! Best interpretation of the Biblical “War in Heaven” I’ve encountered! Thanks for all you do both Whitley and Linda!

  10. Thank you Whitley and Linda for this absolutely wonderful and most informative program!!!!!

  11. As always, I’m the devil’s advocate, but I find it difficult to buy into a war between people who are possibly millions of years ahead of us, over measly ole us. I feel that this argument about whether we should survive or not would have been resolved maybe a few millennia ago? And if they know something about our future through the ability to look into the timeline, and it was unworthy, they would have stubbed us out on the pavement a long time ago. So, I don’t think this is an issue. Whatever is happening out there I think is beyond us; I agree with others that we just may not have the gray matter to comprehend the whole concept of who we are and who they are. We have been stuffed into these amazingly limited meat sacs in a huge universe. Personally, I think we are still our own worst enemies. For me, all these questions about earth and celestial politics, our cosmological beginnings, etc. distracts from my understanding that we are spiritual. We as a species and those others of our planet have souls and belong to another plane of existence, which, by the way, we also don’t understand. If we keep looking at the distractions fed to us by who knows who, we will miss the opportunity for our core selves, our souls, to grow. We do the “Oh, Look! A bird” thing, while we miss our true purpose which is to develop who the All Creator meant for us to be. Not to preach, but isn’t that the devil at work? Divide and conquer, distract and mislead?

    1. You were not incarnated here to IGNORE the suffering of others while you egotistically pursue your own spiritual growth. Spiritual growth is derived by responding with compassion and empathy to the suffering of this world. Checking out is not the answer. I admit that the Kardashians are a distraction. The FACT that per UN statistics, 40,000 children die every single day on this planet due to starvation IS our business. To think you can ascend while ignoring all this is self-deception. Of course, no 1 person can solve such problems. But I see so much mind-masturbation at times, with everyone thinking about light and infinity and ascension while ignoring the homeless mentally incapacitated people a few blocks away who are wandering the streets like zombies. Jesus never said “Save yourself and screw the rest of humanity”. But in this interview, I keep hearing Whitley and Linda going on and on about THEIR ascension. Good luck, guys. On a material level, in Los Angeles we have the largest urban house in existence on top of a hill in Bel Aire. This to me is the epitome of the self-centeredness here where people want to live like palatial gods. To check this place out, search on NILE NIAMI THE ONE HOUSE IN BEL AIRE.

      1. I’ve noticed you frequently talk about compassion while at the same time have a tendency to point what you perceive as the failings of others and support their censure and ‘cancellation’ usually in rather vitriolic terms – especially when their political views differ from yours. As to the latter point, I’m curious – in your view are the people involved in the Jan 6 protest or for that matter even Trump himself deserving of compassion?

        1. You may have compassion for children who were given loaded guns, but you still need to stop them. I do have a hard time feeling compassion for intentional evil like Donald Trump. And I realize that is fighting words to someone who only watches Fox News and gets their reality from QAnon. But I will feel compassion for even him when he is held responsible for what he encouraged AND the GOP still encourages in terms of mocking election results and rationalizing violence against the process itself.

          1. I contend that broadly characterizing people who voted for or supported Trump as simply FoxNewsNiks and QAnoners is a myopic view. Trump was/is an opportunist – but is he more of one than any politician? I have trouble believing so. As to ‘intentional evil’? Some could make the broad characterization that this is the view of people who get their news from CNN or ‘the Jacobin’. These sorts of back and forth arguments never end because few are willing to set aside preconceived and largely group induced notions about ‘the other’ – in whatever form that takes.

  12. Author

    If it’s true, and they are really that old and really in a permanent state of conflict, then I think that Linda’s brief comment about Yin and Yang may be relevant. This is because it would mean to me that there is a state of friction that is fundamental to the nature of reality, with dark and light in eternal conflict.

    I hope it’s not that simple!

    1. A lovely and deep dialogue with an unexpected turn. I had a synchronistic experience with your wife Anne Strieber a few nights ago when I listened to you and Linda. I began my relationa]ship to your work when I lived in Santa Fe throught your books and left there in 2012. In AZ, I began to listen and learn from your and Linda’s casts. In the pandemic I often relax and sometimes snooz to the podcasts and have to return to listen again- I am very isolated, and I like the company of trustworth others with which to relax. So I listened several times to the important information you both presented in this cast and then, I was still up for more new material on your site but I have had some hesitancy in going to Anne’s site though I actually began my listening while she was still in this dimension. It is because i am highly empathetic and I suffer your loss of her physicality but I thought- “Well, who knows, I might see a white moth” which would not scare me at all ! No but her voice was lovely and she inteviewed Doug Kenyon- A tlantis Rising- and the phrase that struck me was such a reply to this post- they were discussing the elements of good and bad through the use of the dramatic, elemental story line- Anne was an English Teacher- am I right? the hero- the bad guy and she said very simply” It has to be that way”. It was to me clearly her contribution not to but “in” your dialogue and I wished to share that with you! Love, Ruth Nofchissey “If everything was sweet, nothing would be sweet.” Bobby Nofchissey- a line i have heard many times from him.

      1. Author

        Anne’s mastery was well hidden, but you noticed it in that response. May I tweet Bobby’’s wonderful quote? If so, with attribution or “from a friend?”

        1. He will be honored to be quoted I am sure. Thank you I will tell him. Yes, it is a lovely turn of words.

  13. Reading the various comments, I remembered a great Revelations (August 2014) William Henry program which I just now relistened to. William discusses the Yazidis People of Iraq, the Zoroastrians (Freddie Mercury) Robin Williams, and reads from Carlos Castaneda (A Separate Reality?) about the “Flyers”. Don Juan tells Carlos that they need us for we are their food (energy). I keep thinking that there are many “dots” that can connect to Linda and Whitley’s discussion, but they (the dots) keep moving around too quickly.

    1. I’m not sure about Castaneda, but then again I think sometimes the universe even uses outright frauds to disseminate interesting information. That said though, it is interesting that there is a similar idea coming out of Bob Monroe’s books (i forget which one). He talks about our energy being harvested by entities in other realms – i believe he called it “louche” in his example or something similar.

      1. I think maybe I’ve heard about that too, but I’m not sure. Maybe see what I can find.

        1. My earlier spelling was wrong- it was actually “Loosh.” The account is given in Monroe’s second book “Far journeys”

  14. With due respect, I just do not believe what Linda says. She seems to believe just about any wild story. She is being continually “catfished”, in my humble opinion. As I’ve watched our nation careen into belief in QAnon and right wing conspiracies (as a justification for revolution against our own democracy on behalf of a thug), I’ve become much more skeptical of all fringe claims. If a claim cannot be proven, I will give that claim polite acknowledgment, but I will not accept it as truth. We are drowning in people who accept as truth total lies simply because those lies “resonate” with them. 1-6-21 was the result! The NEW AGE is constantly saying “Take what resonates with you and leave the rest”. But that is no way to find truth! Just because something fits your particular psychological profile does not make it true! Truth is NOT whatever you find appealing. TRUTH IS TRUTH and it doesn’t matter whether it “resonates” with you or not!

    1. William, I’m going to share my meandering thoughts with you if you’ll indulge me please.
      When I was a child I fell off my bike and cut my knee. My parents were responsible parents and they took me to the hospital to have the gravel picked out and to receive stitches, or is it possible they were irresponsible for letting me ride my bike in the road in the first place?
      I chose to ride my bike that day so was I being careless or was I simply inexperienced at handling the gravel? Was the dog that chased my wheels the responsible party or was it the neighbor that let their dog roam freely (lucky dog:) the responsible party? Did the emergency room doctor hurt me or care for me?
      My answers at 7 yrs old would have been…that it certainly wasn’t my parents fault, I always rode in the road, it was that scary dogs fault, and that doctor hurt me! Oh my the indignation.
      I’m not sure what my truth would be now except to say the dog wasn’t at fault, who could blame him, he was just being a dog, the doctor was certainly trying to help me, the dog owner and my parents were just doing what people did back then and, well, I was just a kid.
      My truth has evolved as my capacity to see more deeply and to forgive has grown throughout this lifetime, but I’m still not sure which version is actually the truth.
      This is one very small example of why “truth” seems so difficult to quantify and trips me up too!
      I guess I’ve reached a point where I know I can’t think my way through to truth. I need to see the larger picture and grow into a greater understanding even as I acknowledge how little I truthfully know.
      It’s certainly not an answer to your belief about Linda but I must say I appreciate her ability to consider new, sometimes controversial information as she grapples to come to some understanding of a “truth” we can live with or try to prepare for.
      I must say that I always find nuggets of truth in the comments you share here. I look forward to the comments almost as much as the interviews.
      I often think about the movie The Arrival as I listen to Whitley’s shows. It’s only in the sharing of information, both material and intuitive and the coming together of all parties that the truth, and a path forward, reveals itself.
      Many blessings to you my friend.

      1. What a deeply, thoughtful response and outlook. Though I don’t always succeed, I keep trying to keep these perspectives in my life.

      2. A very profound and astute observation about life and nature of ‘truth’ – one that I share. Compliments to you, SZ.

    2. Well, Linda is an investigator. She has learned a great deal about the art of scrutiny and has had the opportunity to test her theories of belief through going into a very new subject and taking stock of her fellings and appreciation of details- which is highly nuanced and then seeing conclusions of her research after long periods of time- this gives her confidence. there are many non-thinkers out there who would rest on there feelings which may be very uninformed. But one comes to trust a Journalist like Linda after listening and watching and I do not feel the same about just everybody i hear on this show and i sometimes do not agree with linda- I have my own brain and most of all- my own experiences. Linda has not gotten every answer or hypothesis right- but she is asking questions and has been seeking to establish a dialogue with all sides and to shine a light down a corridor which has not been mapped or paved. She has great questions- the most important aspect of investigation! And listening to replies- she has often said that we would establish this truth together. The truth is that we all may share very different realities at times- the truth is that the nature of the universe is likely more broad than we have a mental capacity to understand-much less to discuss. the truth is that through consciosness studies-what we thought was not possible yesterday may be just proven today and most important- what we took on faith yesterday may be found in scientific certainty tomorrow. Tru dat. She is a significan truth facilitator of our time and she, like Whitley, ask questions from her spiritual foundations, as do I. what she purposes about 9/11 possibilities is not far out and maybe that passenger was spoofing- but something strange and beyond what is in the small story line happened at World Trade. there are many loose ends. And what one thinks is true may change a lot over time. I was helping a man in a mission one evening long ago and he told me that he had run drugs and guns for the CIA and now he lived on the street in fear and shame- I didn’t really believe him then- and today I KNOW it was likely totally true. Bless him, the servant of America. My recent degree is based on critical thinking and I am very at home here.

  15. My mantra as of late has become ‘I Am Because We Are’. Oh, you know the concept, We Are All One With The One That Is All.

    It is sometimes translated as “I am because we are” (also “I am because you are”), or “humanity towards others” (in Zulu, umuntu ngumuntu ngabantu). In Xhosa, the latter term is used, but is often meant in a more philosophical sense to mean “the belief in a universal bond of sharing that connects all humanity”.
    Ubuntu philosophy – Wikipedia

    You know…tell me if I’m wrong…this universal bond isn’t simply connecting all humanity.

    Great dialogue you two!
    Soon enough each of us will find our way beyond (these earthly bonds?).
    Anyway, c’mon, do any of us here not see that there’s a much larger picture to it all?
    For me, I have to say, without the concern and conversation of those such as yourselves Linda, and Whitley, too many of us would be stumbling along unaware.

    Enlightenment? Ascension? …they’re only words, but words are all I have…nodding to the Bee Gees… ;-D

    I do have to say, stepping across a threshold to be in Hawaii could come in handy this time of year.

    Stay safe out there everyone!

  16. Hate to be a party pooper, but as a foreigner, I worry about the involement of the US military. Firstly, this is a global and not a US problem and demands a global approach. Otherwise, chaos may ensue with Russia and China taking a different position vis-a-vis the aliens than the US (and the EU passing trenchant resolutions and doing nothing). Second and more importantly, if it is seen as a military problem there will inevitably as day follows night be shooting involved. Some F16 jock will get one in his sights and pull the trigger. I have no doubt that people who can fly across deepest space can defend themselves. I don’t fancy being collateral damage. The best thing we can do is to follow the advice of Stephen Hawkings and remain as inconspicuous as possible. We should listen hard and see what we can discover, but not put ourselves in a visible position and certainly not involve the military unless we have proof positive that we are under attack. As Hawkings pointed out, the experience of contact between native people and Europeans did not end well for the native peoples.

    1. I think Military involvement in general is viewed askance by a large majority of people interested in the UFO subject. On the other hand it is a condition of the world we live in that there is a possibility that a military response of some kind is warranted – we simply don’t know. The issue I have with it is not the military angle so much as the deep secrecy surrounding the topic that comes with it. I don’t believe those two aspects are inseparable from each other – in fact I think that the military would best be served by being open about it with the public.

  17. I’ve been following the very beautiful Linda Moulton Howe since the late 1970’s when she came to investigate the cattle/animal mutilations here in Colorado. That would be approximately 40 years ago and the mutilations do still occur. Linda leaves no stone unturned and is absolutely meticulous presenting her facts. Her heart and her books are “gold”. I found Linda and Whitley’s discussion of the alcubeirre bubble which could solve so many mysteries absolutely fantastic.

  18. Simply put, what a truly amazing conversation!
    Loved every minute of it and also found it basically comforting somehow. Although the 1% scenario smacks of possible military industrial complex violence that Von Braun warned us about and now Carol Rosin and Dr. Greer continue to educate society about. CE 5 is a tool that helps to prevent this!!

  19. Whitley and Linda, this interview is Par Excellence!

    This last Tuesday, my good friend brought a book by for me to read, one she had just finished reading. I thought I would post the book and verbal review below. I was thinking about it after Linda said she felt very sure that we and non-humans have been trading and in contact for a VERY LONG TIME. THEN……..I am posting another short video (8 minutes) showing Karahan Tepe New Discovery | Winter Solstice Alignment not seen in 10,000 Years | Megalithomania. There is a face jutting out of the rock connected by a serpent neck and I would LOVE to have others give their first impression of the face. 

    The Space Between the Stars
    Book by Anne Corlett
    Copyright 2017

    The Space Between the Stars, by Anne Corlett – Book Review – Bing video

    A Recommended Summer Read from The Verge and io9. A Recommended June Read from Hello Giggles and When the world ends, where will you go? In a breathtakingly vivid and emotionally gripping debut novel, one woman must confront the emptiness in the universe—and in her own heart—when a devastating virus reduces most of humanity to dust and memories. All Jamie Allenby ever wanted was space. Even though she wasn’t forced to emigrate from Earth, she willingly left the overpopulated, claustrophobic planet. And when a long relationship devolved into silence and suffocating sadness, she found work on a frontier world on the edges of civilization. Then the virus hit… Now Jamie finds herself dreadfully alone, with all that’s left of the dead. Until a garbled message from Earth gives her hope that someone from her past might still be alive. Soon Jamie finds other survivors, and their ragtag group will travel through the vast reaches of space, drawn to the promise of a new beginning on Earth. But their dream will pit them against those desperately clinging to the old ways. And Jamie’s own journey home will help her close the distance between who she has become and who she is meant to be.

    THEN, Karahan Tepe……

    Karahan Tepe New Discovery | Winter Solstice Alignment not seen in 10,000 Years | Megalithomania – YouTube

  20. The more I hear stories about different alien races, their factions, allegencies, intentions, plans, wars, abductions, cattle mutilations, links with the paranormal, the military connection, government secrecy etc. etc., …the more it just sounds like noise.

    There is no real truth to be extracted from it, any more than you can extract the truth from a jigsaw, that has huge chuncks missing, where pieces keep changing and some are purposefully obscured with smoke and mirrors.

    But when that unending noise fades into the background, when your mind gives up trying to comprehend it all… then what are you left with, after the confusion and frustration fade?

    Silence? Pure awareness perhaps… the real you, if you like?

    All that extraneous noise out there, related to the alien political landscape is like a macro version of the noise your mind makes whilst trying to meditate. It is, in essence, just a distraction…and recognising that is perhaps half the battle. But maybe we should be thankful for the noise, if it reminds us to refocus on what is really important.

    And what is really important? That is for you to decide, of course…But it certainly isn’t the noise.

    On the contrary, some may say, regarding all these alien related stories, that “knowledge is power”…but it isn’t knowledge, if you don’t know whether it’s the truth or not.

    1. I suspect if we’re looking to truth to tell us the rules we’re going to be dissatisfied. That was the way we collectively understood truth I think. I am starting to get an inkling that as we are looking at a quantum reality, not only do our Beliefs Show us our Truth, but like the scientist studying physics, none of this works the way we were told it does or even exactly the way we Experience it.
      There’s some sort of strange confirmation bias going on here and it serves us to rise above that.
      It feels to me as if we’re being taught larger concepts about how our reality works, if we can take our eyes off the minutiae and look towards greater understanding.
      Is truth related to “the law of attraction”?
      I think so, but I never really thought through it that way until reading your comment Sherbet.
      I agree too, that the Silence helps show us everything we can grasp in any given moment, or lifetime and our job is to continue to expand into that state of awareness…or at at least that’s what I’m going with for today:)

      1. Frankly, we need to lose ‘beliefs’, whatever they may be. As long as we have them, we will continue to overlook Truth.

      2. SZ, with respect to “being taught higher concepts about how our reality works”, I get the impression that whatever we think we have learned, the very next lesson is to pull the proverbial rug out from under us…to teach us we know nothing! When we think we know, we stop looking, we stop wondering…that sense of childlike awe, about our multi-faceted Universe with all its complexities and mysteries, fades. I’m sure that is one of the main reasons that time seems to run so slowly when we are small. Almost as if that feeling of ‘awe’ and newness, brings us closer to a fundamental underlying aspect of reality, where timelessness is the norm… closer to our true nature than anything we would normally experience.

        1. Oh Sherbet I hope so! It’s the flying carpet of my dreams!
          I think that’s why I’m struggling with the idea of truth. It seems so fluid to me but so many are, sometimes rightfully, seeking a greater and deeper set of shared facts and values (truth) that we can all agree upon.
          I’m not sure that’s even possible although I respect the attempt.
          Every time I’ve ever moved in that direction, towards a unified field of truth;) it’s grown more elusive.
          I even looked up the word truth today in Merriam-Webster and it has both a material, Newtonian, factual meaning and a spiritual, quantum, transcendent meaning, just to complicate things more! I believe ( sorry Cosmic:) we are evolving with each dive we take into the expansion, and it’s changing our consciousness but I could definitely be wrong. It’s the “underlying aspect of reality” that is really interesting and the idea of ever-increasing, larger concepts revealing themselves that intrigues me.
          Thanks for taking the time to share and expand your thoughts! As always I have so much to think about. I truly do admire this community.
          A sunset, laughter, a small child, a starry night, 🤍 , our home, The Golden Rule, the Silence. It’s all I’ve got!!

    2. Well stated Sherbet! Most of what is out there is nonsense.

      That does not change the fact that as we clean up our history and trauma, we advance spiritually. Our compassion and generosity are key to that growth.

  21. This was an absolutely fascinating episode! I know that I will be listening to this again. The discussion about physics struck me. Travel just by stepping over a doorway….That made me wonder if this is the same technology used by The Visitors to walk through walls.

  22. Linda and Whitley didn’t get into the possible genetic manipulation of us by the aliens. If there’s any truth to that doesn’t it change how they interact with us? The secrecy that’s clearly in their hands now isn’t the way to do it! Abduct, take genetic material from us then say our planet is in peril but then disappear into the spiritual world? In my opinion the visitors are acting like really bad tourist with selfish motives in mind.

  23. Author

    Very interesting, Stan. I think it’s definitely a possible trajectory. I had first-hand experience with a hybrid – or something – that was really struggling. He could easily have been at least in part my own child. He was obviously very troubled and having a hellish life. I think, when he didn’t work out among them, they simply dropped them in my backyard.

    The spiritual journey I am on hasn’t got a lot to do with them. It’s MY journey. Not to say that they aren’t interested it, because they are. At least, some of them.

    It’s a reminder of the fact that this might not be monolithic. If Linda is right about there being conflict, maybe there are some who have our best interest at heart, just as the Crabwood formation says.

  24. Personally, I’ve seen zero evidence of anything like what Linda is talking about, with a three-way conflict over millions of years.
    And certainly nothing relating to what she described with the coverup, with all the ‘big names’ from WW2 and that whole history. Just completely zero evidence.
    (Keeping Linda’s comments related to the WW2 coverup separate from Roswell, Trinity, and all of that. There’s certainly evidence for those events as has been described by Whitley, Vallée and others. I personally don’t think our gov’t has a real clue at all as to who/what/how was behind these specific events.)

    1. There is fleeting evidence for anything! Material from Art Bell that Whitley and Linda have and the Navy footage. After that it largely comes down to personal accounts and a few videos.

      There is a video on YouTube about Operation High Jump that’s told from the Soviet perspective. I’ll post a link in the subscriber section. Might be totally discredited, I’ve just never seen it before. Maybe someone knows if there’s any truth to it.

      1. Note this part of my comment: “I’ve seen zero evidence…”
        I have not seen, with my own direct conscious perception, such evidence.
        Anybody can say anything they want, of course. I’ve read multiple pages of transcribed dialog with “reptilians” from people who have claimed the exprience. Have I personally experienced any such beings? No.

    1. And I’d clarify this to say “personal encounters with the aliens/visitors” in their most natural forms. Versus shapeshifted forms. After all, when you are dealing with shapeshifters, what can you really say on that level?

      1. If I may ask, has there been any mention of genetic manipulation with us by them?

        1. Stan, please feel free to reread Chapter 7, of The Super Natural, titled, “What Evolution Looks Like”.

          Jeffrey Kripal wrote that chapter. I’d suggest reading it carefully. Very carefully. Perhaps three or four times – or a dozen times – over the course of several months. With a whole bunch of long meditations devoted to the ideas and the process. Just a suggestion, of course.

          1. Maybe when I have time. I don’t own that book. My question was directed to you though not a book.

        2. The process of Creation is a Mind-Soul-Body exploding joy-ecstasy-rapture involving consciously learned and practiced technical skill and art that manipulates spacetime, energy, and matter across billions of years, on scales ranging from whole universes, great gobs of galaxies, on down through everything astrophysical, molecular, subatomic, quantum, Planck-scale and beyond.

          You – Stan – are doing this. Source is doing this. Every sentient being in Creation is doing this. The goals, aims, scripts, methods, and desired outcomes are all being collectively written, rewritten, debated, and agreed upon as the whole thing unfolds, in realtime.

          1. ???? You know a simple answer of yes or no, such as in my experience with the visitors/aliens they did or didn’t indicate that they have a history of genetically manipulating human DNA. Its this type of far out there esoteric language that makes this topic frustrating and unapproachable to many. I won’t bother asking any more.

        3. My apologies, Stan. My intention is certainly not to frustrate you. My reply is not esoteric or ‘far out’. It is exactly what is happening, both in fact and in truth – as far as I can see, and as far as I know from direct experience.

          Let me try to explain my answer in a different way, starting with,

          0. “Yes” as the answer to your question, and working my way all the way through the relevant facts as I know and understand them.

          1. The visitors I know were literally created (in part) to manage everything that exists with DNA on Earth, and anywhere else in this particular Universe that genetic processes exist. So your question itself is way too limited. Does this manipulation involve human DNA? Well, yes. It involves every speck of DNA here that has ever existed, including humans of course. The human-animal is just one of about 1 trillion species here right now, and many trillions over evolutionary history here.

          2. This process of ‘DNA management’ is absolutely collaborative. It involves every form of conscious energy that wants to be involved both in living directly on Earth in physical form, and every form of conscious energy that interacts with Earth and all related Earth-planes, from any other non-physical forms. That includes all human-focused souls that are involved with Earth. For example, some of our human ‘dead’ are actively manipulating our DNA (and countless other things) here just as much as the visitors are.

          3. The Creation process works across all scales. Decisions that are made about how to manipulate the human genome take into account things you’d have absolutely no idea about – perhaps matters of how humans and human-focused souls may intersect with other planets and other realms of life millions – perhaps hundreds of millions – of years into the future.

          4. The ‘past’ can be rewritten on any scale, at any time.

          In every moment, the entire Universe is recreated out of the ‘whole cloth’ of Consciousness. If Source or any other group decision wants to work on the scale of changing something in the ‘present’ that isn’t working out as desired, that can be done. You would never know it. Everything – every ’cause’ – that needs to be rewritten, is instantly rewritten, on any scale, however far back it needs to go. If you want to play with the implications of this fact in your mind, feel free.

          This process always acts on a kind of principle of ‘least action’ so you will find it is as subtle as necessary to achieve any change desired, with the least disturbance to the overall present state of the whole system.

          5. This collaborative process of manipulation is essentially ‘time-free’ in all directions. From present to past, from present to future, from past to future, and from future to past. There are countless rules, agreements and methods in place, to make this ‘all work’ in a way where one moment flows into another, and there appears to be reliable, workable laws of cause and effect in our Universe. The beings that are free to manipulate reality in a ‘time-free’ manner respect those rules and agreements far more than it is possible to describe.

          6. There is an analogy that works to describe the overall picture. The Universe can be seen as a Networked Conscious Machine, with both software and hardware in play. The software is conscious and can (and does) rewrite both itself and the hardware, on any scale. Generally, it works best if the underlying principles and processes of the Operating System coded into the Machine by Source are respected.

          7. We all know Source has (by far) the best handle on the overall plan of what it wants to do with the Machine, so we do our best to learn about, and respect, what’s going on there – what is desired as an overall outcome, by Source itself.

          But the whole thing is absolutely meant to be a collaborative Creation. Source would be mighty disappointed – to say the least – if we didn’t do our part of the process. So we all are called to do our best as active participants.

          1. Generally, I’m with Stan as far as clear and concise answers are concerned, but lately I’ve come to realize that sometimes that ain’t gonna happen.

            Your, Dougnicola, reply to Stan’s last inquiry shows thoughtfulness and clarity. Well, as much clarity as I could hope to obtain based on my ignorance. As to its truth, or whatever we want to call it, I can’t say. But what I do think is that you are sincere, and that means everything. Thanks for that.

          2. Thanks, IKnowWhatISaw. I really appreciate that.

            As to the truth here, I’d say keep it in question, always.

            I’ve reviewed what I wrote multiple times, and checked on the text with the visitors multiple times, to see if there was anything that I or they wanted to change or clarify. I ask “Is this accurate?” And I get a “100% affirmative” answer, each time. And I’m getting it yet again, right now. Hugely.

            But… this is all language about ‘stuff’ that is – realistically – beyond the ability of human language to accurately describe.

            That’s a paradox. The actual lived experience is a paradox, too. That’s not a problem. Ultimately, it happens, and it works. It’s taken a long time to get used to, as a lived ‘reality’, that’s for damn sure.

            I don’t know if I will ever stop questioning my own ‘sincerity’ – “Do I *really* have a f*Xking clue what’s going on here? Honestly really??”

            I keep getting feedback – talk about Cosmic 2x4s! – “Yes, you are getting things right.”

            The questioning should never end. My sense is that – as Whitley always talks about – the questions need to be left open.

            That said, when I’ve internalized the ‘flowing truth’ (sounds so woo!) of how it really works… well the answers start to turn into truly ecstatic lived experience. That is something that is ‘beyond’ any questions of trust or doubt.

            It just is.

          3. “But… this is all language about ‘stuff’ that is – realistically – beyond the ability of human language to accurately describe.” – herein lies the rub, IMO.

            Fortunately, I seem to be accepting this fact a little more every day. It’s the experience, or the life lived, not so much the words to describe it. The words are immensely important of course, but they only tell part of the story.

  25. That is the biggest deception in ufology, that there are good and bad aliens. There may be some that seem more benevolent, but they are all still beings that defected from God and loyalty to Him. Many followed Lucifer, and you can imagine many probably still had more affinity for the heavenly things that they lost, peace and light, etc., being still interested in man and ‘good’ things of life, while some became totally twisted into evil and complete hatred, but they are all still of the kingdom of darkness and enemies of God (and so truly are enemies of man, and not really helping as they may seem). It is a difficult truth, because we so want there to be something to look up to and help us ascend out of earthly life and state of consciousness, but it is only in Christ.

    1. I guess it was inevitable that the religious intolerant opinion showed up. This isn’t the Vatican’s opinion, so it must be some other Christian based belief

    2. PDS57, a useful exercise may be to examine your beliefs and where they come from in an honest fashion. How much of what you say do you know for sure from experience and not simply because that is the collective belief of your particular milieu? The truth is that the nature of all of these things is not known with any degree of certainty.

  26. Anne Strieber said something very wise: “The human species is too young to have beliefs. What we need are good questions.”

    Because we have no certain ground of truth, including religious truth, all of our beliefs are written in sand. The second we start believing, we stop thinking.

    1. This is key! Thank you Secret Harmonies!

      Our beliefs divide us! And most of our beliefs say more about our individual unique prejudices, whether it’s a war in space over little us, Christian, Baha’i, Buddhist, or Islamic philosophies, silly paranoia over Freemasonry, being chosen as a benefactor for disinherited people, arguments over politics. It’s all mostly fantasy to justify a mal-adapted understanding.

      You are correct Secret Harmonies, and Cosmic Librarian also stated it well earlier in this conversation. When we hold belief, we will consistently overlook Truth. “The human species is too young to have beliefs.” This is true. How effective are the beliefs of toddlers from our adult point of view?

      Beliefs are walls we erect that keep us from each other, and each from ourselves.

  27. Linda hopes the gov’t will just come out with it? This seems very naive. No way is that happening.

  28. I am way behind and finally listened to this episode. I really enjoy the conversation between Whitley and Linda. I kept thinking about the book A Wrinkle in Time by Madeline Le Engle. Maybe it is not really two bubbles, maybe it is just a fold.

    Thank you.

    1. Can’t tell you how many times I’ve thought about Madeline Le Engle’s Wrinkle in Time as I’ve listened to quantum physicists as well as podcasts on consciousness as it relates to these conversations. Now… FINALLY… someone knows the book. I’m new to the inside of Dreamland so I thank you for sharing my thought. You gave me a smile.

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