Mitch Horowitz is one of the leading scholars of the occult in the world. During his distinguished career as editor of Tarcher-Penguin, he published Whitley’s books Solving the Communion Enigma, the Key and Super Natural. This week he takes us on a journey down some seldom traveled paths including the use of sexual energy to generate personal power and change in the world, the hidden meaning of the occult, and the unique power of certain practices to cause real inner change.

For subscribers, he goes deeper, explaining the mystery of the Ouija Board, the truth about the Illuminati and then helping Whitley understand an eerie experience he had with an entity at the Contact in the Desert conference last June.

Mitch is guest lecturer at the Philosophical Research Society in Los Angeles and will be speaking there October 24-26 on Mysterious Beasts, the Tarot and other topics. To learn more, click here.

Mitch’s website is To get The Power of Sex and his other books, click here.



Dreamland Video podcast
To watch the FREE video version on YouTube, click here.

Subscribers, to watch the subscriber version of the video, first log in then click on Dreamland Subscriber-Only Video Podcast link.


  1. Looking forward to listening to this one! Should blow away the last few … I hope!

  2. Great show.

    That said, and this needs to be said, donating to Unkown Country is currently almost impossible.

    I’ve tried, over several weekends to donate a couple of hundred pounds, yet the donation simply will NOT go through using paypal.

    I am (and have been since 2002) a subscriber. As long as UC is up I will subscribe, that’s a promise.

    The only donations that ever successfully transacted were through Gofundme, a year or so back.

    It’s not me. Please, please, please clarify if there is an ongoing Gofundme for donations that will ALWAYS allow a donation, or not, because at the moment, the UC donate link (via paypal) simply does not work.

    I chose not to ignore this as that was too easy and when it come to challenging conscious growth I am not interested in not trying, however tired I am.



  3. Author

    We’ve heard this more than once, Von Hausenberg. Why PayPal is so erratic, I have no idea. I have just created a new GoFundMe for the site and sent you an email that will enable you to donate. Anyone else is interested, here’s the link: And THANK YOU both for pointing the problem out and for this VERY WELCOME support!

  4. Peace.

    We’ve not met in this life but we have out of the body and in other lives, on Mars in particular (so tall and both with a Cat there too!)…

    Thanks for making the effort Mr Strieber.

    That’s all I have to say about that.

    (Hi Cosmic!.. say hi to Spielberg for me please!).


  5. Is there anyway to donate and still acquire “The Key”?
    I have been a member for years and would gladly donate to keep this site going.
    Whitley, I have a small life story to tell you.
    Back in the Reagan years where the mantra that greed is good was chiseled into our American psyche, I worked for a beer distributor that mainly sold Pabst.
    In Milwaukee, Pabst outsold all the other beers 2 to 1. It was considered the working man’s beer.
    The Pabst family was Milwaukee. They were in all the most exclusive Country Clubs and they donated on loan all their hundreds of years of memorabilia to the City.
    The owner of General Brewing came to town and did a stock take over.
    The Pabst family was nonplused. When asked how he did it. He told them all they had to do was raise their case price by fifty cents.
    He immediately took back all the history and heirlooms spread across Milwaukee and sold them at auction. He only wanted the label. He emptied their breweries and sold their equipment. He put thousands out of work.
    He destroyed that history for greed.
    Please do not let this happen to your hard work and heritage. Raise prices of you have to. You will not lose your subscribers. Your product is excellent. There is not a week that goes by where I miss a show. Thanks.

    1. Thks for that history bc I feel the same way about UC. The sub price hasn’t increased in at least 5 yrs–if ever. Subscribers, who can afford to, will pay more.

  6. You said no one will publish you, Whitley? What about the book the visitors were pressuring you to finish last year?

    1. Author

      I am publishing through my own company Walker & Collier. I can get it out there fairly well, although nothing like a big publisher could do.

      The visitors don’t care. They just want it out there so that if they become more visible, people will have something sane to use as a template for building relationship with them.

      As to the pressure, IT IS STILL ON! As long as I do my best, which means working 10 hours a day 7 days a week, they are content with progress. I love it–the interest they lavish on me, the care they take, the amount of input I am getting. It is just wonderful. And I love them. They’re hard, Jean. Very much so. But I like to work.

  7. Author

    Thanks for this! The problem is not keeping subscribers. We’ve lost a few because I follow the direction of the visitors when it comes to climate change, and some Trump supporters have left as a result. But there’s no way I’m going to do anything other than what they want here. This is their site as much as yours and mine.

    What we need are new subscribers, and in a time of such political upheaval, it’s hard for people to focus on or feed their souls. It’s why the visitors think of us as being so very poor. To them, a man with a big soul and no money is a rich man, while the one flying around in the private jets and whatever and not keeping his soul healthy is poor.

    I just wish that someone who has a rich soul AND flies around in private jets would come along and super-fund this thing so we could open the doors to everybody!

    1. The problem with the hard core Trumpers, many of which are “christians”, is they think he is doing god’s bidding. They see god in control and there is no way man could effect the climate. Their arrogance disguised as faith is what’s in the way. Ironically they see themselves as more soulful than everyone else. I see them as children. I admire your dedication to the climate, you’ve never wavered from it.

  8. First I hope your check for this web site did not clear yet – its not done very well. and I’d try to get refund! Second what is the horrible distracting noise that seems to be on and off in background on this other wise interesting interview? sheesh! Sounds like kids — maybe?

    1. Author

      Week after week, you’re disappointed, Mr. Trubilla. If you don’t like the site, why are you here? There are other podcasts to listen to.

    2. I agree about Mr. Trubilla. Every week it is something he does not like. Can not follow the guest. The guests are not up to his standards. The site is not up to his standards. I wonder who is behind John Trubilla. Children maybe?

  9. Mitch Horowitz, what an interesting path you have taken in your life. YOU AND YOUR LIFE WORK, TOTALLY AMAZING. Soo, I would like to make a few comments. First, starting tomorrow (Sunday at 2pm MIDWEST daylight saving time, I plan to sit everyday for 15 minutes and imagine/see new subscribers clicking on the subscribe now tab. I plan to do this until Friday afternoon.

    …THEN, at times and right before I fall asleep there is this visual that pops into my mind. Not every night, only once in a while. I find my consciousness in the same sort of place. It is near trees and the trees are a beautiful vibrant green; sometimes there are red berries on a tree and once in a while I can see a cliff. NEVER do I touch anything, so very real but for some reason I am not able to actually touch them.

    …Then, when I pray at night and before sleep comes, Hermes is one of the entities I invite into my dreams. Probably silly but I have always felt connected to him and ask him for wisdom that I might be able to share with humankind.

    …THEN, there is this…….THOTH/HERMES.

    Note, as I was listening to the above (THOTH/HERMES) an e-mail came in from my niece regarding a small 3.0-magnitude earthquake southwest of Lilbourn, Missouri. You are probably laughing if you live in California BUT only thought this to be a bit strange. Anyway this area has had a lot of small quakes lately and IS located in the New Madrid Seismic Zone,

  10. Hey, this site isn’t going anywhere. If it was boring and run of the mill nobody would be here anyway. This site is exciting. The interviews offer a wonderful mind-trip and is a refuge for people who feel or used to feel estranged from society for being intouch with the strange. I’ve been listening to Dreamland forever. All of the authors interviewed have enriched my life beyond anything else I’ve encountered. I don’t agree politically with alot of people. Also, because of the lessons I’ve learned listening to this community I don’t shut it all out. What a shame that would be. Thank you Anne and Whitley for this treasure. I don’t use Paypal. Thanks for the alternative link.

  11. During the discussion about transmutation of sexual energy, I couldn’t help be reminded of the movie ‘The Wolf of Wall Street’… you know the scene… in the restaurant with Leonardo DiCaprio and Matthew McConaughey, where McConaughey’s character says “…When you get really good at it, you’ll be ******* and you’ll be thinking about money.”!

    I think I’d better stop there 🙂

  12. I always have a hard time getting my head around the Quantum physics idea of a waveform only collapsing when it’s being observed…it just doesn’t make sense to me, at least on the macro level…like Schrödinger’s cat being both alive and dead, until observed… so I prefer to think of the entire Universe(s) as always being in a collapsed state, due to the continual observation of the consciousness that brought it into being in the first place.

    But maybe that isn’t the best way to think about it… Maybe I should just stop trying to make sense of it and acknowledge that the unfathomable may actually be the way things are… probably like Super Natural experiences…as Jeremy Vaeni as often said, when we think we know what is going on, something else happens to show us that we’re wrong.

  13. Interesting podcast! But what are the sopunds in the background? It sound like shouts and cries, and sometimes like playing children. It might be totally electronic. Any idea?

  14. Author

    Spurious interference like this has been a longstanding frustration on Dreamland. Nothing was audible during the creation of the podcast, nor when we checked it in the studio. Where this interference comes from we do not know. It did not enter over the microphone of either participant in the show.

    1. I heard those sounds too, so I replayed it a few times, as my first impression was that I could hear owls hooting… which I thought was quite synchronistic, given the connection between the visitors and owl symbolism / screen memories. On listening to it again, I couldn’t decide between children playing, or again, owls.

    2. I’ve always liked the sounds of children playing. kind of means everything’s ok somehow. still heard the voices very clearly so i didn’t mind at all.

  15. Author

    I have our sound editor listening. If it’s not in the master of the show, we’ll repost. If it is, then maybe he can offer a definitive answer.

  16. Another fantastic show. I’ve been a subscriber for for years and can’t imagine not having Unknowncountry in my life. The cost is modest and well worth every penny. For less than the cost of ONE latte a month at Starbucks, you can have access to this font of information and intrigue. Sheesh!, to me, subscribing is a no-brainer.

  17. Hi Whitley.
    Have you ever contacted Richard Dolan Press for publishing your work?

  18. Author

    I prefer doing it through my own company, Walker & Collier. I really enjoy the book making process, cover design, etc.

  19. I really enjoyed this show.

    I put this on Twitter already – I am wondering what tomb he was in where he saw the bull image and which bull deity that it was?

  20. This kind of magickal technique using this kind of energy works. I use it on occasion, it is actually how I met my wife and happily married for 4 years. Also I used it to get my current job (6 years) 🙂

  21. What specifically are you referring to Sahgwa?

    Also, there’s a chat at seven tonight in the chat room for anybody who wants to come. (Oct 23) Every Wednesday, same time and place.

  22. I am referring to the use of sexual energy toward non sexual ends. In my case an applied use of both Western ritual magick and ‘Chaos/sigil’ magick. 🙂

    1. Author

      How remarkable that this comes up just now. I’ve got a lesson about this from a visitor I regard as a teacher on the morning of Oct. 16. I don’t have many physical encounters, so this was pretty rare. The lesson involved drawing sexual energy up the spine and making what was described as “sacred use” of it. The lesson was overall about the sacredness and power of pleasure. All of that said, I have been trying to remember the exact contents of the lesson, literally within the past half hour, and it was your reply that jogged my memory.

      1. In the tradition I am a part of, it usually involves visualization at the moment of climax, as well as a ‘forgetting’ or ‘letting go’ of the ‘meaning (of the sigil)’/’lust of result’
        It works very well if done correctly.

        The visualization exercise he mentions works as well, but when coupled with this energy it is very capable of making life more malleable.

        EDIT to say, the visualization, coming from the anja chakra would in my opinion be analogous to your ‘drawing it up the spine’

  23. from what ive read and heard the pyramid shape may be the physical version of shape of the carrier wave of this third dimensional reality. whatever is inside one will have its signal enhanced and also its connection to the information dimension enhanced. we should all be sleeping under them.

    i came across neville goddard lectures posted on youtube on the “mindpodnetwork” all one word. i reccomend checking that resource out. they have many playlists that people here would really enjoy. more info:

    MindPod Network is a podcast network and consciousness focused collective.
    Our YouTube channel uploads occult, esoteric, philosophical and spiritual talks that have been remastered and edited for audio clarity.
    For more info please visit

    the way, I’m coming to believe, that is the only way out of the mess we are in, is if we use our reality creation abilities together purposefully. some very dark forces seem to be doing the same to us so we might as well give it a try. seems like it wouldn’t take anything close to a majority to do some real work in that regard. robert monroe, in one of his books, did mention energy harvesting in this construct. we should be wise about that.

    enjoyed the show.

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