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The second half of our conversation with philosopher Bernardo Kastrup, author of Why Materialism Is Balony, takes a turn to the experiential as he reveals for the first time ever the single driving force behind his work and, indeed, his life’s mission. Then we learn of how he truly feels about the importance of CERN’s large hadron collider, which he worked on, and the blind spots of scientists where paranormal and transcendental phenomena are concerned.

24 Comments

  1. Hello Jeremy. I wanted to
    Hello Jeremy. I wanted to talk to you about Project Core, if you don’t mind. I thought that what Jeff Ritzmann mentioned about liminal borders was right on track. When one moves to a new location there may be a lot of energy being released and a “reorganization” of the energy centers in the brain and body. One of the greatest liminal scenarios may occur around the time of puberty. During this time, the person may be more open to paranormal experiences, as the body is adjusting to higher energy levels. Puberty may be among the most extreme liminal points in a person’s life. I wonder if the data collected by project core reflected any influence of puberty upon the regularity of liminal experiences.

    Liminal borders may also be related to the amount of energy present in a circumstance, with the outer edges representing a high energy power.

    I am pondering the idea of late that humans experience reality in a confined form, mainly because we are designed to extract energy from chemical sources. This limited chemical energy gives us particular perceptions that are not the whole truth. Our perceptions remain basically localized, in a separate energy “bubble” even if this is not the entire truth. Generally, this refers to the amount a person is “separated from his environment”, in a spiritual and bodily sense. If the cells were infused with enough energy (approaching nuclear levels, or beyond a certain threshold) barriers created by the “chemical nutrition matrix” would begin to break down, and a person would be psychic and could obtain information automatically from the quantum world. Running enough energy through the body would similarly allow individuals to tap into quantum reality, and teleportation, psychic powers, quantum entanglement, (among other phenomena) would become available. When a person is united energetically with his environment, quantum perceptions may emerge. When a person is experiencing energy flow on a constant basis, they are not far removed from the quantum realm. I am contemplating the idea that certain life forms recently discovered that gather energy from pure electrons may be experiencing a psychic mindset, there would be virtually no division between them and the quantum vibrational reality….

    http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/186537-biologists-discover-electric-bacteria-that-eat-pure-electrons-rather-than-sugar-redefining-the-tenacity-of-life‏

    I found the data concerning creativity not entirely unexpected, and the RH factor was already known to me. Thanks for your essay on the subject of Project Core, I enjoyed it.

    1. “I wonder if the data
      “I wonder if the data collected by project core reflected any influence of puberty upon the regularity of liminal experiences.”

      –This is a question we did not tackle this time around. But it is only the beginning. I’ll try to gather the Project Core group for an episode soon. Maybe open it up to listener questions.

  2. If the human mind can
    If the human mind can interact (interface and work) with dark matter and dark energy that would push humans beyond their current understanding of physical reality and its present limitations.

    1. Roger: I think that the
      Roger: I think that the balance point between order and chaos is a unification of the two. I think that dark matter and dark energy may be manifestations of order and chaos. Dark matter and dark energy may attract each other, vying for a balance. Breaking down the barriers that keep us separated from reality at large may instigate states of mind that differ significantly from our present construct of perception. When we are attuned to the unitive field, our paranormal skill sets may burgeon.

  3. ahh….I loved the end of
    ahh….I loved the end of this program, when Bernard pointed out that a Transhuman AI computer is most likely a fantasy. I concur with his opinion. I think that Star Trek, the recent movie Transcendence, and other films were pushing the bounds of believability and common sense.

  4. The scientist in the
    The scientist in the interview brought up what happened when Einstein posed the question what happens when you ride on a beam of light and a revolution was born extending the concepts of motion. I’d like to ask that scientist what happens if you ride on a gravity wave and I mean the gravity waves that Einstein claimed existed coming from his general theory of relativity. These gravity waves are described as ripples through space and time this would lead to a further understanding and extension of the laws of motion based on the general theory of relativity and it would open the door to what dark matter and dark energy are but nobody will touch such a profound and important idea. Perhaps physicists today lack the imagination and the intuitive sense to follow a reasonable question to a logical conclusion.

    1. Hi, Roger. I asked Bernardo
      Hi, Roger. I asked Bernardo if he’d like to answer this and offered to post it for him. Here is his response:

      Yes, there is evidence for gravity waves propagating at the speed of light, as predicted by general relativity. It is also very well understood how general relativity relates to Newton’s gravity. Strictly speaking, Einstein’s physics has replaced Newton’s, the latter becoming an approximation of the former under particular circumstances (very low speeds). I don’t know that ‘riding’ gravity waves in a thought experiment would add any insight to those gained from ‘riding’ a light wave. But that may be due simply to my limited imagination.

      I don’t see any direct link between the discussion above and dark matter/energy. Dark matter and dark energy are, by the way, two completely different things. Dark matter probably exists as stuff of some form, just not in the form of atoms as we know them. Dark energy, on the other hand, is just a name we gave to a complete unknown. The expansion of the universe should be slowing down, but it is accelerating. Nobody has the faintest clue what the cause is, so we just gave it a name: dark energy. It’s unclear to me how a thought experiment with gravity waves could help explain dark matter or dark energy.

      Cheers, Bernardo.

  5. You’re doing great Jeremy!
    You’re doing great Jeremy! Brilliant!

    1. Thank you.
      Thank you.

  6. Hi there, EE. I left another
    Hi there, EE. I left another comment on…..

    “The Reality behind Interstellar–Not What You’d Expect”

    Hope you are having a good week.

  7. Dang! I wrote explanation to
    Dang! I wrote explanation to my previous comments and they disappeared into the ethers again after I sent them. I wonder if its the nsa or somebody messing around.

  8. I must admit, this is way
    I must admit, this is way over my head. I am not a scientist, mathematician or a philosopher. Wrestling with ideas is a lot of fun… and imagining possibilities is a really, really amazing thing to do.

    Do these imaginings provide the basis for scientific developments, higher math, and/or philosophy? Or… is experience the basis for the developments? Or…. Is it a combination of the two above possibilities? Or… something more/something else?

    Some people work hard to put what they “know” (from experience) into terms that others can accept. It is an effort to either “prove” an experience or just make it acceptable to others without giving the personal story of the experience.

    “When the student is ready, the teacher appears.” Experiences are the student & the teacher, aren’t they? Having an experience changes a person. It is now reality.

    One begins to see and interpret all things based on the added reality one has experienced. What was taught by family, friends, schools etc are now opened up. How does the experience fit in? How do I ( the experiencer) fit in? One is turned upside down and inside out by some experiences. It is a new understanding of reality… perhaps just expanding the one we had before.

    One may need or want to share the experience with others – in a search for understanding, comfort, belonging. Do we still belong? Depending on the experience, one may wish one could give it to others. Being heard and accepted help us to fit our “new” selves into a world others see the way we did before our experience.

    Perhaps when enough people speak their experience, the limitations / edges of normal will open up or fall away. As the reality of experience becomes integrated within, one finds a way to live and the truth of oneself becomes solid ground. Questions may still arise within, seeking continued growth and understanding of one’s experience.

    Is there ever proof other than experience?

  9. “I must admit, this is way
    “I must admit, this is way over my head….” Based on the rest of your post, I beg to differ. Nice work!

  10. Roger,
    So many of my comments

    Roger,
    So many of my comments have “…disappeared into the ethers…” in the last couple of months, that I have been tempted not to post at all out of sheer frustration. Not sure what’s up with that, but when I get on a roll with an idea, only to have it vanish from the comments, I find it very hard to get back on track with the thought or idea to post it to my satisfaction the second time around. What’s odd is that it shows saved, but within minutes or hours it is no longer there! I know that we are not being censored by Whitley or Unknown Country, but something is amiss…

    Excellent interview with Bernardo Kastrup, and very intriguing questions from you, Jeremy! Since the nature of reality appears to be in the eye of the beholder, many of Bernardo’s ideas are thought provoking, but others I question. That being said, I feel that the ideas of transhumanism and sentient artificial intelligence are not so far-fetched, and to quote the master of ‘The Key’ to Whitley Strieber: “If I was an intelligent machine, I would deceive you.” That quote sent chills up my spine when I read it several years ago, and it still resonates with me today (Knowing full well that many humans are themselves masters of deception, no?)

    As to Bernardo’s childhood experience with the bullet-shaped object, I can relate to his anger at this extraordinary event. A little over 20 years ago, flashing red lights appeared right outside my second-story bedroom window one night. My husband and I were having an argument when all of a sudden those red lights lit up our bedroom, with my husband responding with, ” What the hell is that?”. My husband went to the window, then went down the hall to check on our son, a baby at the time. I remember being angry that this object showed up when it did. I had no fear or worry, just anger that this UFO, or whatever it was, showed up in that moment. It was just crazy, made no sense, no sound, and lit up our room like the proverbial Christmas tree! My husband came back to bed minutes later without a word, and the next morning I could not get him to discuss it. From that moment on, I felt that something important had changed in my life. Out of all the strange occurrences in my life, this one was the most puzzling for me and also the one that made me feel the most manipulated, but by whom or what? I have even toyed with the idea that maybe someone (Myself?) sent those flashing lights back from the future, but who knows? All I do know is that I felt no fear, no awe, no curiosity—just anger when this object appeared, then disappeared as quickly as it showed up.

  11. Thank you, Jeremy. It was
    Thank you, Jeremy. It was really difficult for me to understand a lot of what was said by Mr. Kastrup and written by many posts. So i tried to say what i did “sortof get” hoping i wasn’t too far off.

    Cosmic, Roger, and others whose posts disappear – i am so sorry that has happened. I find your words so interesting and often i find areas we are alike. I am afraid it may be something i do wrong that causes that to happen and i am deeply apologetic.

    Please do not censor yourselves do to others’ mistakes. Your words are important.

  12. Bernardo Kastrup: Dark matter
    Bernardo Kastrup: Dark matter is probably an ordered energy that exists in an ordered dimension beneath our own. Dark matter acts as a scaffold for galaxies, due to this attribute. Dark matter is extremely dense. Dark energy is the ambient energy present in the vacuum. Everybody has access to dark energy, it can be channeled by the body and mind, using meditative techniques. Atoms may also partially channel dark energy in order to sustain themselves. Dark matter may exist below the 1st chakra energy center in the body. Along with matter, it is responsible for the solidity of the body.

    Dark matter and dark energy are opposing entities; dark matter is predisposed to act like order, while dark energy is a form of chaos. The energy chakras in the body are energy niches, describing gradients towards one tendency or another: dark matter (1st chakra) and dark energy (7th chakra). The 2nd through 6th chakras are merely areas in between, consisting of amalgams of order and chaos, in varying degrees. Order and chaos are energy forms.

    I imagine that dark matter tends to pull on dark energy, attracting it. Galaxies are areas where dark matter is pulling on matter and dark energy. Dark matter and dark energy vie for balance, and tend to fight for it. The point of balance where dark matter and dark energy merge is the unitive field. Since this field is not obvious to science (it lies in the background of reality) we do not usually observe it directly. However, when dark matter and dark energy align and merge at a confluence, both entities are balanced out completely. This unitive singularity is a point of absolute balance, where strange phenomena can occur.

  13. I feel that reality is all
    I feel that reality is all about duality, and that once balance is achieved, reality disappears and bleeps out of existence (Nirvana, anyone?)Perhaps in that period when balance is very close, but not quite there, extraordinary experiences will occur, paranormal becomes ‘normal’, then the reason for being (achieving balance), is no longer supportive of any kind of reality or existence. Enter the singularity, where All is One. Well, yahoo. Now what? Does all that stuff that disappeared go anywhere? Another Big Bang? Is it any wonder that so many philosophers go off the deep end pondering all this stuff? Is it also any wonder why many scientists avoid researching the paranormal, UFOs, and the ‘reality’ of numinous experiences? Is it any wonder that some people believe that they will be rewarded with eternity in heaven if they just worship the right deity and follow the dogma?

    I remember years ago the first time I really grasped the concept of Nirvana. The idea scared the heck out of me, because I realized in a flash that it was the total annihilation of ego, i.e. ‘Me’. That idea, at the time, was more frightening than the idea of simply dying. Crazy, I know.

    My observation, and I could be wrong, is that most (certainly not all) scientists are about discovery, but they are not quite prepared for pondering the annihilation of their own egos, plus they like the idea of having their ideas and theories all wrapped up neatly with a bow and backed up by equations. I get that. I also get that those that have out-of the-ordinary experiences want to be believed and do not feel a need to duplicate the results of what happened to them just to make the scientific community accepting of their experience because, after all, for them it was real, definitely. (I was that kid in Sunday school class arguing with the teacher that God creating living things through evolution was no less miraculous than just snapping his fingers to bring it all about. I reasoned that even God could get bored and needed the challenge of being creative with creation. I was soon thereafter requested to transfer to another class, because my teacher admitted he could not handle my questions or observations about the Bible.)

    We really don’t know or understand reality, and if we ever do, we will have to be willing to relinquish our egos forever, whether it is proved through science, religious, spiritual, or paranormal experience. In the grand scheme of things, all are equally important in terms of our personal growth and the customization of our personal realities and the path towards being fully conscious beings. In other words, being willing to let go of our egos.

    1. “…. the total annihilation
      “…. the total annihilation of ego, i.e. ‘Me’. That idea, at the time, was more frightening than the idea of simply dying. Crazy, I know.”

      Ding-ding-ding-ding! Winner, winner chicken dinner! This is the point where most of us get stuck. We go so far as to think, “Well, I’m not afraid of death so why haven’t I ‘achieved’ enlightenment?” Or better yet, “Well… since I’m not afraid and I get this enlightenment stuff intellectually, I must have achieved it already.”

      A death with an afterlife or reincarnation or nothing at all–whatever the belief is… death with a belief in any direction, including that we just die and that’s it… is not death at all. That is the way the ego maintains itself. Real death = annihilation. When this happens while the body is alive we have, at that moment, chewed through the cocoon and turned into the butterfly, as it were. We’ve achieved our true human nature, which is not this dysfunctional “the sanest you can be is slightly neurotic” nonsense we currently live.

      It’s such a subtle point that it can sit in front of our faces for thousands of years and few of us will see it: Everything “I” does is self-fortifying, including all of the activities that claim to be the antithesis of that. The annihilation of self is the deep in-the-fiber-of-being understand of this. That’s all. There’s nothing to do but “get it” and that minor task is the hardest thing of all, because the self is a projection of the brain. it is brain consciousness and it wants to live. YOU and I want to live. But we’re not fully alive and we sense it and so we seek answers.

      But the answers aren’t out there or in here. There’s only the dissolution of the seeker for the self-aware aspect of Truth to come alive in the body. The seeker seeking Truth accidentally blocks out Truth with the noise of its seeking. In the silence of the seeker having given up, if there is such a thing as Truth or Enlightenment or Wholeness–whatever word you like… IF that is the reality beyond you, it will become you in your absence. The brain-body can now allow Truth/Spirit/And So Forth to move through it AS the self. You 2.0.

  14. There is a reason that an
    There is a reason that an ubiquitous song from an animated film has been so popular in the last year, and also that in some ways young children get it in a way that many adults do not. Children have not yet been ingrained with the filters that prevent them from getting ‘what it’s all about’, and it has nothing to do with the Hokey-Pokey. ‘Let it Go’ actually has some remarkable lyrics that are beyond about being yourself, and more about embracing ‘Being’. Little girls in particular love this song about true freedom beyond self that includes ‘Oneness’ and being in the moment with nature and reality (Sacred feminine at play?). This song was everywhere, and I even caught myself making snarky comments as it was played one too many times on TV and the radio. Then one day I actually forced myself to listen and feel the words…A minor breakthrough, complete with tears and a big ‘Aha!’ moment! I am a woman, by the way, and I have been guilty of getting caught up in my head about reality and ‘what it’s all about’, and ignoring that the heart connection must be there as well. We cannot sever the connection between the heart and the head because together, and when in balance, some pretty extraordinary things can occur and the self begins to take a backseat to what ‘is’ and towards transcendence. I am no where close to transcendence, but I am much more into letting it unfold rather than attempting to force it along as I have done in the past.

    Wax on, wax off…:-)

  15. When scientists can
    When scientists can manipulate matter, energy and dimensions to create anything their imaginations can conceive, then they will have mastered Science. Until then, Science is merely a semi-evolved practice, with not that much significance. Consciousness is certainly more interesting as of now. I am impressed that Bernardo is cynical about the amount of progress that science has attained thus far, especially since he worked for CERN itself. When you can bite the hand that feeds you, it demonstrates that you are being honest. Stories, such as those that surround the higgs boson, are diverting to a degree, but real progress will solve the major problems that the Earth has been suffering from for hundreds of years. We will KNOW when science has achieved real progress. Until then, it is really a bunch of hot air, and not worth our total attention. We hear a lot of promises from those who espouse and invent Science. Most of these promises have not materialized.

  16. This is a profound show
    This is a profound show (parts 1&2) and series of posts. You folks make my heart sing. Not that i “get” all of it, nor am i sure i understand what each of you meant in your words. But re-reading and time has been like a light turned on in the room. You are that light, for sure – everywhere and no where so to speak.

    Cosmic, when you wrote ‘Oneness’ i was moved. It is the first time anyone has done that… i belong now. Such a gift – freely given. Thank you.

    Mace and Roger, you guys are lifetimes ahead of me, as if i am a preschooler listening to college professors. So many things of which i have no awareness or knowledge.

    Jeremy and Bernardo, i also listened to the Inception dialogue you did. I think that really has helped me A LOT!!! I have wrestled with losing myself/ annihilation. There is no way to explain how that will translate in me each time it comes up for resolution. Believe me, the first time was scary and i ran for the hills to avoid the inevitable. “It” was ongoing for a long time. Eventually i had to make a choice.

    It has come up many times… each for a specific thing reason. Again, i must choose, it doesn’t get easier. Just more familiar. I never have any surety of the outcome for any choice i make to resolve it. I guess the hardest part is i don’t know what will be on the other end no matter what i choose to do.

    One small thing i wrestled with for many years until i finally took my hubby’s advice… just let it go. When i did there was profound freedom. What was so important to me, wasn’t. It no longer controlled so much of my thought, feelings, or time. It wasn’t replaced by something, either. I was just no longer attached to it. Was there emptiness to be filled after i chose? Not that i am aware of.

    I am changed in that one specific aspect, from my previous way of being. I can remember how i felt, i thought, etc. before i finally let go. That isn’t ME anymore. I am not that person – stuck on that thing/idea.

    Doing it for one part/aspect doesn’t mean anything about any other time i have faced what i thought was part and parcel of who/how i am. It is a new lesson, all over again. Maybe i take a shorter time to work through it, though. Not sure.

    It is amazing. We are all gathered around a campfire, each pointing out “their” connecting points. You are painting a ….fuller view than what i had before. Helping put things into perspective and words. Thank you all.

  17. Eben Alexander said that our
    Eben Alexander said that our real and “normal state” is conciousness, (paraphrased), clarity, lucidity, all knowing, all unconditional loving, this must be our light being. So we are alive , eternally, unconditionally. Our animal self wants the big house, the million dollars, etc. The light being can have both!, because of access! Don’t know what this has to do with the show but something I guess. hee , haa , good podcast , enjoyed, thanks.

  18. ‘Campfire’ is a great
    ‘Campfire’ is a great metaphor Dreamer! We are very much Storytellers, and both teachers and students of The Great Mystery.

  19. What are the dogmas that
    What are the dogmas that exist in science? This guy outlines them pretty well.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKHUaNAxsTg

    I would include the idea that “cosmic distances are too vast to traverse, therefore aliens visitors cannot be here” on that list.

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