Professor of Biological Anthropology at Montana Technological University, Dr. Michael P. Masters joins us to talk about his latest book, The Extratempestrial Model. Applying his expertise in hominin evolutionary anatomy, archaeology, and biomedicine, Dr. Masters is the first Ph.D. in Anthropology to credibly posit that UFOs and “aliens” are our future human descendants coming back through time to visit and study their own hominin evolutionary past. And when guest host Jeremy Vaeni sees that he is open to going beyond even that in his theorizing, he takes the conversation to places few are capable of exploring! You do not want to miss this one!

Explore this incredibly provocative book. Click here!

Visit Michael Masters on the web:

Dreamland Video podcast
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  1. So, I had an instant and deep rapport with Dr. Michael P. Masters during this interview. It feels like something I experienced in the mid 1970s when I walked into a library and discovered my first book regarding EDGAR CAYCE. Time travelers, YES, this is it. (Of course, only my personal feelings here). I am going to post this and then include an interview in a different post since it seems when I include a website it gets stuck on the subscriber’s page.

    In this post I have included a DREAM:


    I fell asleep on the couch and had this dream between 8PM and 10PM on the 17th, April 2023.

    Dream: I am in the house where I grew up, located on…… My mom is at my right, my dad to my left, we are huddled together and hiding under a piano bench. My eyes are closed but I can still see through my third eye. What I see is entities that are not quite like us humans. They are about the same height in stature as we humans, but their facial features are different. I do not think my mom and dad can see them but are certainly feeling their frightening presence. They are all around us.

    I am no longer under the piano bench and my parents are no longer in this dream. It is nighttime and I wander into a bedroom being occupied by my former daughter-in-law. (Although she and my younger son are divorced, we still talk a few times a year and exchange cards). She is getting ready for bed and tells me that she has brought a thin blanket with her for her stay but thinks she needs a warmer blanket. I open my closed right hand and a blue ball is sitting there. It shifts out of the ball state and starts taking on the form of a blanket. It is blue, extremely thin and mesh like with holes throughout the fabric. I HAVE NEVER SEEN ANYTHING LIKE IT BEFORE. I tell her to be sure and put it over her while she sleeps.

    Now I go into a different bedroom. There are children sleeping in this room and I have a feeling they must be a few of my g-grandchildren but am not 100% of that, not really positive as to who they are?????

    I wake up abruptly from this dream, feeling disturbed.

    NOTE: I received this today: Interesting, since the dream begins with a piano bench.

    Tuesday, April 18

    “Music itself is a means or a manner of expressing the harmonies of the mental self in relationship to spiritual ideals and spiritual concepts.”
    Edgar Cayce reading 949-13

    NOTE, when I send the website/interview, and for those who choose to watch/listen, pay attention to Dr. Masters’ explanation regarding, “The bigger the brain the bigger the eyes.” Also, the eyes are formed coming out of the brain. ‘I DID NOT KNOW THIS.’

    “Your baby’s eyes start out as two tiny outgrowths from the developing brain. Beginning at 6 weeks of pregnancy, these growths start to fold inward and form two cup-like structures. As these structures enlarge, they remain connected to the brain by a stalk that will eventually house the main optic nerve.”

  2. I enjoyed the discussion and do think that we need to consider spiritual dialog around these discussions. Who or what we are is as relavant as who or what the encountered beings are. Indeed advanced extraterrestrials are likely to have very complex direct experience on planes of perception which we are only rarely experiencing. It is good to elaborate on fantastical theories in order to see if there is any data which we sould look for to provide any correlating evidence for the phenomena humans have been reporting.

    The similarity in the form and ecological niche of Marsupial Mammals and Placental Mammals implies both that external form is an archetypal design of functionality and that inner biological form does not follow external form. The bipedal humanoid form is a functional archetype and does not in any way imply similar internal biology. Therefore it is illogical to assume that all humanoid entities reported represent future evolutions of humanity. It is much more logical to assume they represent biology which evolved on other planets with somewhat similar environments. Due to the similarity of our own bipedal humanoid form ist is much more likely to image some of the races of extraterrestrial worlds modifying outr genetics to quicken what took much longer in their own evolution. The idea that Earth and humans are the center of the universe and all other reported entities are future evolutions of humans is extremely unlikely. Add to this the many indigenous stories (including Genesis) that tell of humanities creation and the case for even one of the encountered species (which may be biological or synthetic) coming from the future requires some specific data to imply such.

  3. Great Interview Jeremy! Glad you’re back interviewing. You asked Michael towards the end if Whitley had shared his meditation for revealing oneself to higher worlds. Are there any links to that practice you could share, either on the website or on a podcast? I’d very much appreciate it.

    1. I’m pretty sure he just meant whitley’s sensing exercise. (See dreamland archives or search youtube).

  4. Good interview and episode. I agree with Sunbow. It is arrogance to assume the visitors are the future us. Moreover, for them to be the future us implies that humanity survives into the future. What with global warming, AI, nuclear weapons etc, the smart money says we probably won’t. Unless, of course the visitors used human DNA to create humans on other planets. We simply don’t know and every discussion, however much fun and enlightening it is, comes back to that one, overwhelming point. Worse, if you look at the parallel field of PSI research, where we know no more than we did in Conan Doyle’s time, we may never know.

  5. An entity did tell an experiencer that one day, she will look exactly like him. I took that as a hint that he/she is a future human. What else could it mean?

    1. Maybe in this case we are talking about a transfer of consciousness into a different body type?

    2. It could also mean there is a natural progression of the bipedal humanoid form. It would be good to get a very precise description of teh being, but under the circumstances and with human memory being what it is, what thet form actually looks like is vague. As humans continue to reincarnate the human vessel is changing (hopefully progressing in perceptual ability as consciousness is able to handle more or subtler data).

      1. As far as I remember, from that story, they were similar to Whitley’s description of the stocky, slightly blue-looking Cobalts / Kobolds (spelling?).

    3. I’ve wondered if Barnes was actually one of them, but incarnated as her human self at the time; if that were the case, one day she would indeed look like them… again!

  6. If the block Universe theory is correct and still allows time travel (however that is accomplished), then what interests me, is how someone within the time stream might experience the inevitable correction of a potential temporal paradox. In another words, regardless of how much someone tried, they could go back in time, but would never be able to kill one of their own ancestors. The Universe would, I assume, manufacture some kind of event that would ensure it never happened.

    That takes me to one of the episodes of ‘The Curse of Skinwalker Ranch’, Season 3, where a couple of astronomers were asked to train their telescopes onto a spot around three thousand feet above a piece of land they call ‘The Triangle’, where many anomalies have been observed. There is talk of some kind of portal up there. What was interesting, was that when one of them tried to aim their telescope mount automatically to a star within that region, they were astonished to find that the star was no longer in the database of the mount’s electronics. In fact all the stars within that region were missing. When they manually positioned the telescope, the attached camera then stopped working.

    My suggestion is, that gathering that kind of data from the anomalous area, might lead to the discovery of exactly what the anomaly is…which might violate a fixed future (assuming a block Universe) where I assume the secrets of the portal area are never discovered. So what we could be seeing with the astronomers, might be exactly the kind of automatic correction that is required, for the Universe to avoid a temporal paradox. They talk of an intelligence on the ranch, associated with these phenomena but what if that is only how it seems…but what is actually going on is more like a natural force, akin to something like ‘the path of least resistance’ that the Universe inevitably has to take, just like a river flowing through a canyon, unavoidably constained by rocks on either side?

    I hope all that makes sense!

    1. I think the ‘Block Universe Theory’ is false, a good thought experiment or science fiction exploration of an idea of a Universe with no free will. I also think it is being injected into the common persons awareness because if everything is predestined then those who are starting wars for profit or killing people have an excuse. I have seen ordinary people using this excuse on the internet for their nasty behaviors.

      That said, I think anomalous equipment functioning is a big sign that someone is on to a very interesting aspect of reality. Every anomaly should be rigorously explored. A lot of data is required before a thought experiment (like the Block Universe) can be considered a theory or model of reality. There are many more questions than answers – be weary of answers.

      1. I agree, it’s an interesting idea probably more worthy of a good sci-fi plot but certainly worth playing with, as a mental excercise…the reality of things is probably way too brain-meltingly multifaceted, as to be truly incomprehensible.

        With regards to the assumption that a Block Universe by its very nature precludes free will…I just don’t think the two are necessarily logically linked, although I can understand how that case could be made.

        Assuming for a moment that a Block Universe were a real construct across time, it all comes down to one’s perspective.

        If a being were outside of time and looking inwards at the mere mortals milling around, it could clearly see what choices we would make at any given time, but that does not mean within the time-stream, that a genuinely free decision was not made. We are not just going through the motions, we are genuinely co-creating the structure of that five dimensional block.

        It’s like us, here and now, looking at the completed statue of David and assuming that Michelangelo had no choice in the artistic path he followed, just because we know how it turned out.

        But yes, be wary of answers indeed. I might suggest all sorts of variations of reality but I don’t believe any of them!

  7. A very thought provoking show. I’ve reflected on it all week.

    I appreciated Jeremy’s thoughtful and patient style interviewing Dr Masters. It allowed for a deeper resonant connection with what is a subject mired in presumption.

    Many of us have and will enjoy precognitive experiences and perhaps experience synchronicity as we go about our daily business. Sometimes the clarity of information about future events or paths will grab our attention. If, in time, it comes to pass, then we may find ourselves looking back and consider that our idea of time is very two dimensional and blinkered.

    I recall Mr Strieber once suggesting once that we exist IN consciousness; it’s all around us and is a much larger realm than we usually perceive. That sounds about right and leaves me feeling both curious about the nature of time and also enjoying a deeper feeling of patience in the whole process of life and existence.

    Thank you for this interview. From my first listening in a steaming hot bath, through a hard week’s travelling around the UK in what was a tough week, I now find myself sitting here with an improved sense of calm in moving forward.

    Trust in grace.


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