Psychologist Dr. Rachel Harris joins Whitley for a discussion of plant medicine and the women who guide explorers on the profound journey involved in its use. We get deep into Rachel’s own journey in the world of plant medicine, exploring the plants not only from the viewpoint of how they affect brain chemistry, but also of what they mean as teachers and guides into the hidden world of nonphysical consciousness.

And who are these guides, and why are most of them women? The exploration of this fascinating question begins with a discussion of the ancient Greek mysteries that were practiced at Eleusis and organized and guided by women. There is an open and frank discussion about the difference between male and female energy, and the important roles that both play in the inner journey both of guides and initiates.

And–as happens so often on Dreamland–another, unexpected guest joins the conversation. Who is this guest? Well, it’s not a person…or is it? Rachel and Whitley are joined by a marvelous tree, which offers some surprising wisdom in what turns out to be a startlingly powerful, delightful and unusual show.

Visit Rachel at To get her book, go to or order it from us here

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  1. 1980-1984
    We used to do mushrooms and go to state fairs!
    at least 13 times. over 4 years Mushrooms with grape juice.

    ~ 1987
    When MDA or XTC was a pharmaceutical we called it the Love Drug for many reasons. There were bars in NOLA that only served 10 dollar waters & orange juice.. XTC bars. People dancing with themselves in front of mirrors wearing black pants & white turtle necks. Very open to people & community. When the criminals started making it in the bathtub after it was banned.. that’s when we all stopped.

    Good fun Haven’t done any psychedelics since. It was a youth thing.. nothing spiritual – just recreation drug fun. MDA trend lasted about a year. I’d do a half of what looked like a Mint Certs.

    Now its a social beer and tried a pot edible in front of the TV.

    I think some folks can do drugs and walk away and others get fried as they have addictive personalities. And stay away from Cocaine & heroin & even to much pot makes one lazy.. IMHO.

    1. Well said James.

      I used to take Ecstasy at the Hacienda nightclub back in the early 90’s. Whilst it was memorable, (took E and LSD together one night) it was also just a phase that I grew out of once I realised that such weekend indulgence was causing depression, confusion and bouts of anger, not to mention the tiredness.

      It’s a shame that so many pro-drug lobbies seem to cherry pick information, especially with regard to cannabis (which I loathe). It’s almost as if someone wants to purposely damage young people’s potential.

      I do not include this week’s guest in reference to pro-drug groups. The discussion offered here is valuable and operates across a much broader spectrum of Human experience.


      1. I agree Von. Its usually a youth thing some grow out of.
        All this promotion of CBD’s & edibles.. Well you may be right about control and placation. I feel it dumbs down people and makes many apathetic and lazy. Its fun once in a while… watching TV at night or around a campfire…but for me I cant handle it in a public place with social interactions! HA-HA!

        1. Some of my patients use cannabis for pain with great effect, when nothing else works. One thing to remember is that these days there are different strains for different purposes, and the ones used for pain aren’t meant to get people high, nor to “control and placate.”.

          It’s also a matter of dose. Taking too much is not a good idea.

          1. Most of us accept that pain relief is important and valuable.

            Recreational indulgence was certainly something I embraced back in the day and so make no claim to be free of that association.

            Whilst I largely have no regrets, I now feel differently about so many groups desperately, literally foaming at the mouth & yearning to legalise drugs and force feed them to vulnerable youngsters, likely asking for their vote in the process.

            Couple such social and cultural change with a large scale roll-out of enhanced entrainment technology and you sleepwalk into slavery.


  2. What a beautiful interview Whitley. I truly think I hadn’t seen you connect to someone as well as you did with Rachel. How Wonderful! Was it the tree, Anne, or something else? Even though you touched on some dark issues the joy was palpable nevertheless.

  3. This was probably my favorite guest & interview so far! Thank you both. I’m definitely picking up the book this weekend!

  4. The two of you connected like old friends and were very present with your conversation. It was wonderful to listen to and many topics and questions were shared. Here are a few paraphrases – high level glosses:

    How does humanity find a deeper relationship with our deeper selves and the Earth?

    How can humans change the relationship we (consciousness) have with our personalities?

    How can we develop more educated intuition?

    How do we incorporate the dead into our world view and thereby into our lives?

    Transformation (and many experiences) do not follow from cause and effect logic, therefore how do we release shadows to dance in a new sense of changes?

    What will inform humans that they have a soul and that so do all living things, and that our souls are connected?

  5. A captivating discussion…and I appreciated Dr. Harris’s honesty about herself, and how she is still on the path to coming to terms with her age and her mortality.

    I have never done drugs or ‘plant medicine’, and never felt there was anything wrong with their use, just that they were not for me. I have had so much ‘world-walking’ go on since I was a kid, that I felt that they might do me more harm than good ( Kind of like Whitley). But…plants themselves I get, and that they do have consciousness, although not like ours. Many years ago I often wondered how ancient and early humans found out what was safe to eat , and how certain plants could heal various ailments. Then one day I read about how even some indigenous people in the U.S. simply said that the plants ‘told’ them what they were for. I really understood this about 7 years ago, when my partner and I hit a particular trail very early one morning at Big Bend Ranch State Park here in Texas. The fragrance of the various low growing plants and shrubs were intoxicating and lovely, and I remember telling him that this place was a shaman’s dream!

    We have a lot (a lot!) of plants, we talk to them, care for them, and aloe vera is a true medicine plant. I have several pots full of it, and it gets used. The other day, my mother was moving to a new residence so we got the pick of of her few plants, and my partner said that one in particular wanted to come home with us. I think my mother thought he was a bit crazy, but I knew better.

    When the huge banyon tree in Lahaina fell victim to the fire on Maui, I felt for it in ways similar to that of the grief and suffering of the people—and I was very glad when it was announced that it might make it after all. The healing of that tree will also help those people in ways that they may not understand.

  6. What a wonderful interview with you and Rachel.
    Loved every bit of it!

  7. Whitley, could you expand on the meaning of the ominous warning “It will come upon them unaware”:
    does “it” refer to, say, an environmental disaster? or perhaps to an intervention by the visitors?

    1. The words are not new, but just expressed in a different way…The Great Unknown Threat to humankind is…unknown. But without Nature, we have nothing, including protection.

      “For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.”
      1 Thessalonians 5:2

      “Behold, I am coming as a thief. Blessed is he who watches, and keeps his garments, lest he walk naked and they see his shame.”
      Revelation 16:15

  8. Off this topic….There are so many new crop circles, can we find a guest with information about this? It’s alarming.
    Thank you Whitley, for all you do.

  9. Thank you for this interview Whitley and Rachel.

    ENT TREES…….
    Ents are a species of beings in J. R. R. Tolkien’s fantasy world Middle-earth who closely resemble trees; their leader is Treebeard of Fangorn forest. Their name is derived from an Old English word for “giant”. The Ents appear in The Lord of the Rings as ancient shepherds of the forest and allies of the free peoples of Middle-earth during the War of the Ring.


  10. PASCAL, I would like to add this to what COSMICLIBRARIAN posted when you ask: “It will come upon them unaware.” Might this be akin to that statement???

    Matthew 24:40–42 — New American Standard Bible: 1995 Update (NASB95)
    40 “Then there will be two men in the field; one will be taken and one will be left.
    41 “Two women will be grinding at the mill; one will be taken and one will be left.
    42 “Therefore be on the alert, for you do not know which day your Lord is coming.

  11. I think we all agree it was a wonderful conversation although at moments I felt some thing’s were lost in translation given the relative points of view of W. S. And the author which have a very small point of intersection in terms of beliefs and /or significant life experiences. They managed. to meet at that point and present a great interview full of sensitivity from the author.

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