Don’t believe the debunkers: this is an excellent book and a very thorough job of research. Listen as Jacques Vallee and Paola Harris take us down the tangled path to the Trinity crash. Along the way we will learn what two innocent boys saw crash on their ranch and how they reacted to it. This all happened before the phrase “flying saucer” had even been coined, and before there had been a single word about the subject in the press. They also offered a detailed description of the entities they saw in and near the craft, and what they saw when they looked inside. It is an altogether amazing story, backed up by thoroughly professional research, expertly described by Jacques and Paola.

Then, for our subscribers, Whitley adds a provocative coda of his own, describing what happened when he interacted with a being in 1994 that sounds very much like the ones described by the witnesses to the 1945 crash. (You will find this included as a Subscriber Special below.)

This is must listening for anybody seriously interested in the history of the UFO/UAP phenomenon, and especially for close encounter witnesses because of the descriptions of entities and communications.

This event happened a few miles from where the first atomic bomb had been detonated. The Socorro Incident of 1964 happened a few miles away, and the Roswell crash of 1947 took place 30 miles north of the only operational atomic bomber wing in the world at the time. Not only that, both Russia and the US have recorded numerous incursions and approaches to nuclear facilities and missile sites.

Clearly, somebody is worried about that and they do not appear to be human. But who are they, and why?

Don’t miss Trinity! To order, click here.

You can reach Jacques Vallee and learn more about his work at You can reach Paola Harris at

Dreamland Video podcast
To watch the FREE video version on YouTube, click here.

Subscribers, to watch the subscriber version of the video, first log in then click on Dreamland Subscriber-Only Video Podcast link.


    1. Author

      No video with these guests. Also next week there will be no video with the guests. Then the week after we will go back to video.

  1. As of 12:30 pm PDT, it appears that the download link button it missing, at least on mobile devices. I am editing this to say that the links to the audio files also aren’t working.

  2. Author

    The files have been repaired and the show is now complete.

    1. Thank you. I am really looking forward to being able to download this one

  3. Campamocha is not a cricket, its what they call praying mantis in Spanish.

  4. A phenomenal report! Well done Whitley. I’ll definately put the book in my very tall tower of books to read. Sadly i don’t get much time for reading with 3 little kids and all of life’s other distractions which make interviews like this so valuable! Hope someone could make a documentary film on this.

  5. If Free listeners don’t subscribe after hearing this episode, I won’t understand. Another superb interview; thank you all.

      1. I’m always baffled by people listening regularly but not subscribing (so missing the last half hour). I tried that for about 3 episodes — missing out on the last third of the interview was driving me nuts, so I joined!

  6. I wonder if the “angel hair” filaments that fell from the craft were actually a part of some neural network.

    1. It’s interesting that the ‘angel hair’ in this account was long lasting. I’m sure that when Jacques was on Dreamland last, he described a different case where the so-called ‘angel hair’ that came off a craft, dissolved into nothing after a day or so.

    2. The angel hair filaments could be carbon nanotubes. One reason why they would hurt to hold or touch may be because they are be electrically conductive. It might feel like getting an electrical shock when holding them. Optical fiber is glass which is an insulator. Electrical signals are not transmitted through optical fibers. Carbon nanotubes can be used to emit light.

  7. did he not talk about the kids were driving the family truck then they were on horses did I miss something

    1. That confused me a bit too. One moment they were described as driving the truck… the next they were apparently on horseback. Unless they were pulling the horses in a trailer and went the last part on the horses? I’m sure the book would make it clear.

    2. I also noted this major discrepancy. It made the story confusing. All this coming and going was not clearly defined in terms of distances. Unfortunately, my time will not allow me to read the book at this point and all it seems to add is another Roswell like incident.

  8. I already completed this book days ago, and I cannot recommend it enough. The context of history, as well the cultural aspects are what make this book different. It talks about an incident of high strangeness, but to call it a book about ‘UFOs’ misses the mark.

    I am very active in the Twitter community, and I follow scientists, researchers, and others who share my interests in the paranormal, as well as nature and other topics. Many of these people also follow me and we engage privately as well. Some of the things that I have seen on Twitter about this book, including from some individuals known at this website, have surprised me, both before and after ‘Trinity’ was released. It is down right amazing to see folks give up criticism on ‘Trinity’ without actually having read it! I’ve called out a few on this, and they pretty much clam up when confronted. So…this book must be very important, indeed, if there are so many self-proclaimed ‘experts’ that are doing their best to knock down the book without reading it.

    …And the way that Vallee is treated as a UFO hack trying to make a name and money for himself is beyond the pale…He is an actual scientist with some impressive credentials ( Just ask NASA.) I began studying (and experiencing) the ‘unusual’ when I was a kid, and I have been aware of Vallee’s work since 1967. In 1987, when I read ‘Communion’, I had learned to take it seriously, while also taking a step back from what it APPEARED to be. I KNEW that something very real, and very weird had happened to Whitley, but I wasn’t prepared to name exactly what that was. I think back on it after all this time and realize Vallee was the influence that made me take step back on forming conclusions.

    This interview was great, but DO read ‘Trinity’ everyone. Its perspective is so important, and you may find yourself starting to put together more pieces of the puzzle together in a new way.

    1. How bizarre… I had to read the sentence “This interview was great, but DO read ‘Trinity’ everyone.” at least five times before my mind would stop seeing it as DO NOT.
      Maybe my mind just interpreted the capitalisation as a warning, rather than just emphasis.

      1. Wow, Sherbet! That is bizarre, because I really meant DO! I have experienced some things I have posted here and elsewhere as disappearing, but this is just as weird.

        So I guess my concern (and I don’t tend to yell in any of my posts) is that my posts may be showing up to others as negative, and I hope that I am not being used without being aware of it. I am not a person with ‘clout’. But, I will be more mindful in the future about this sort of thing, so thanks for mentioning it!

        1. Wow, you guys in America use the term ‘clout’?

          That’s awesome, I thought that was a British term originating and used mainly here in Britain up North in Yorkshire.


  9. Author

    I have always thought that the debunkers with a concealed intelligence agenda go overboard to slam anything that contains new information.

    1. I get people who are not interested in the topic, and even debunkers that just flat admit that they have no intention of reading a book, for whatever reason. But I am highly suspicious of anyone who does a critique or expresses opinions as if they have read a book, then they admit that they haven’t read it. Worse yet, are those who ask derogatory questions about a book or its authors on Twitter, or any other platform, because they are too lazy to find the answers for themselves by reading the book. It’s disappointing, especially coming from those that I thought were better people than that.

  10. If, as is often reported, the visitors’ primary concern is nuclear weapons and climate change, this may be the smoking gun on why disclosure will never happen. The governments will not give up their weapons of mass destruction and capitalist economies that rely on never ending consumption (which is at the root of climate change).

    The power structure on this planet is fundamentally at odds with the visitors. Whether we are actually at war with them, I do not know. But to admit to their existence would lead to the next inevitable question, “What do they want?”

    I do not see the Government allowing this question to be asked in the public space.

    1. Great question: “What do they want?”; or perhaps what is their intention? They are spending a great deal of resources, as well as time which is precious to every living being.

      Are they spiritual missionaries concerned for us?
      Are they after something, perhaps our youthful species vitality (see A New World)?

  11. I was puzzled by Paola referring to the boys’ story of the creatures coming in through the walls, as a ‘paranormal’ account. Surely that it just the creatures employing a technology… albeit outside our understanding.

    1. “Surely that it just the creatures employing a technology…”

      Humans developed technology over eons because we are physical animals with an all-powerful survival instinct, some intelligence, and we have hands with thumbs.

      Let’s make a couple of leaps here.

      1. We discover without any doubt we are actually immortal energy beings. Conscious Beings of Light.

      2. We learn how to interface with physical reality on a conscious, intentional level to the point we can manifest physical changes with our directed consciousness. A lucid dream, but cosmos-scale.

      As an example: if we wanted to perhaps visit some friends in a nearby dimension… How do we get there? Well, we know a certain group of materials and shapes will help get us there fairly quickly and easily, so we create – out of thin air with our minds alone – a large, heavy sorta metallic avocado surrounded by multicolored glowing angel hair stuff. Why? Because we know there are many underlying reasons in the multidimensional cosmos why this particular configuration of shapes and material will work best for our specific needs.

      (And oh yeah. 3. We still have bodies and hands with thumbs.)

      Where did our need for using or building “technology” go?

      We are now just basically using our evolved understanding of “how this works” – on the input strategy level – to get somewhere.

      Maybe on our trip we joke to each other, “Hey, remember those times millions of years ago where we were flying planes and shooting rockets around! All made out of dirt and stuff we dug out of the ground, and spent forever trying to get it to work! Ha ha, those were the days.”


      Here’s a quote from ANW about an experience that happened to Whitley exactly two years ago today.

      “The next thing I knew, I heard a young male voice say excitedly, “We’re in!” The next instant, I saw hanging before me a complex schematic. I found myself pushing it away with my mind, which caused it to vibrate. I did it again, but then the thing disappeared, and I knew that somebody had just forced their way into me. (I cannot say what was on the schematic. I have no idea what it was, only that it was some sort of chart that looked like circuitry. I was seeing, I would think, the input level of whatever was there.)”

      Perhaps that complex schematic of circuitry is just the view of “how it works best” when you are doing this stuff, as described above, when you want to visit Whitley, internally.

      Instead of externally, with a large avocado.

      Not technology.

      Not on any level whatsoever that we have come to understand in our human way.

      Just very clear, truthful understanding of what is possible with your mind and conscious energy, and how to make it happen.

      Call it “bionoetic” – What physical-biological life does when it is very clear, conscious, and intentional about how it is really all Mind.

      Right now there are 37 thousand billion billion chemical reactions per second happening in your human body.

      What happens when you are so deeply alive and perfectly aware on the input strategy level that your consciousness can not only accurately interface with all of those chemical reactions on a quantum level, but also with all of the *rest* of the atomic and molecular world right around you?

      And then take that interface into a connection with the flow of greater consciousness – Mind – all around you?

      Dude, you and your friends are going to bust a move. I guarantee it.


      One last thought. It may be you and your buddies were inspired to take an avocado trip to visit your friends in another dimension for another reason. Something called you. And you answered that call at a certain time and place, because you’ve realized that your cosmic interface always works optimally when you pay attention to certain deeper urges.

      Then, oopsie daisy, you’re caught in a storm, drawn down by a force you cannot control, and crash into a radio tower.

      Bummer – those bodies got bounced around a bit too much. But… We all know point (1) above. We know it more than anything else.

      So we take the slower, scenic route back home, rebuild what we need relating to bodies, and think about what just happened. And why.

      You talk to your great-uncle Ted about it, and he says, “Oh yeah. I remember that time back over Aurora, Texas! OMG, that was hell. Well, here’s what we think might be going on…”

      1. Very valuable insights, as “I am you, and you are me, and we are all together.” I think some of the ‘phenomena is at this level, but I suspect this was ET in a vehicle. The beings in the bodies were crying. We cannot neglect Patanjali and the fact that some beings will be master ‘Dreamers’ able to manifest a form of choice anywhere. That said, there are many races of intelligent species who are various levels; perhaps technologically advanced enough to get here, but that is not to say more spiritually or morally on the Path.

        In this case I believe these were ETs. Interestingly they did not have resources or lacked the motivation to recover the craft themselves; nor did they rescue their stranded team members.

        1. Thanks, Sunbow.

          “The beings in the bodies were crying.”

          Keep in mind the problems of output strategy bias. The witnesses saw the *bodies* crying. In truth, we have no idea what those beings -in- those bodies were actually doing at that moment. Maybe they had already split the scene?

          Michael Newton says, in Journey of Souls, “Souls often leave their human hosts moments before actual death when their bodies are in great pain.”

          If these campamocha travelers had far less of an urgent physical survival need than humans, they may have left their bodies the moment they realized they were going to crash. The crying bodies that were witnessed could have been only the death throes of no longer occupied biological-material husks.


          I agree that we are dealing with many different races of intelligent species, at all kinds of levels. There are so many ways this particular incident could parse out. Something partly technological, partly mental. Or fully mental. Or fully tech. Maybe they were borrowing the craft from a far more advanced neighboring but friendly race, and they had no idea what they were driving! (Do you really know what tech is in your own car?)

          Maybe their craft was made long ago, by distant long dead ancestors. Perhaps they have lost the ability to make the craft themselves, but the craft are so well made they last for thousands of years (until they don’t).

          Whitley’s idea from the message board, on the “What’s the Big Deal?” thread, resonates for me, with this particular incident,

          “If our visitors are part of this universe, they must emerge out of complex and probably very ancient cultures. But we see almost nothing of that. We see blank walls, generally undecorated, and entities that are usually without affect, seemingly at-large in a cultural void.

          Indeed, the emptiness of it all suggests to me that it is an illusion of some sort…”


          A whole bunch of intuitive and experiential stuff leads me to believe this was at least partly a mental experience, if not fully so.

          Our cosmos is a mental construct. Entirely.

          Sooner or later (the surviving) technological species figure this out, and what this really means.

          1. “The crying bodies that were witnessed could have been only the death throes of no longer occupied biological-material husks.”

            Relistening to the description in the interview, though the beings could have been in great pain or distress, I’d have to change that idea that to perhaps, “partially occupied”. (Also a possibility that Newton relates, and is related in numerous NDE experiences – during a trauma of this nature the occupying soul can move out of, around, and back into their bodies)

            Purely speculating of course. My biggest question is given the bare-bones nature of the interior, how would it be possible to survive such a (partially controlled?) crash? A crash, or crash landing, hard enough to gouge the ground, as described?

            That’s part of the mystery of what makes me think this whole experience was partly mental, partly physical.

            Anyways, given the reported time discrepancy, the mesmerization, the recurring later dreams of falling, and so on, it’s pretty apparent the boys were in some conscious contact with the beings.

            And yeah, I’d have to agree with the other comments. The way Vallée first describes the boys being out with their truck on that fateful day, then with their horses, is an odd discrepancy. Maybe someone who has read the book can confirm what is stated there?

      2. DOUGNICOLA, what you just wrote reminded me of an experience about 4 years ago. I was asleep and dreaming of a place in the past where I was performing some kind of ceremonial magic. The dream seemed to go on for a considerable amount of time. All of a sudden I felt a strong slap on the back that woke me up immediately. I thought my partner had done it, but he was sleeping peacefully on his side, facing away from me. Hmmm…
        I was upset, because I felt a need to finish the dream. I was fully awake. I finally drifted back to sleep, and saw a ‘board room’ with people I didn’t know having a discussion. One man, and I heard him very plainly say, ” We had to shut her down because she was trying to change the past.’

        I then woke up immediately, again, and could’t sleep the rest of the night.

        1. Very interesting experience, Cosmic.

          Honestly, I have a strong tendency to take certain things like this at face value – when they involve things like physical-feeling slaps, that are strong enough to jolt you awake.

          And then the “board room” with people – yeah. Sounds totally and immediately like a soul council of elders vision.

          (Such council visions referenced literally thousands of times, between all the different researchers that tackle this subject. Richard Martini is currently on the front lines, keeping tabs on this stuff in a great way for the general public)

          The man speaking refers to “we” – as in a collective decision. “Woah there! She’s going way into something not agreed to. Shut that down, now!”

        2. Also interesting of course, because this gets into the whole free will question. Who decides to intervene? What’s the best way to intervene? Is it ethical? Who has authority? How do we know we should?

          A whole bunch of really fascinating and fraught questions!

          1. Exactly, Doug…There were more details about some things that happened the evening of the dream that involved another podcast and my ‘experience’ with that. Someone who is also an expert on dreams was supposed to get back with me too, and things occurred that kept that from happening too. It was all very strange…

    1. Sherbet, there is a photo in the book of real ants as one witness describes, ‘standing’ upright.

  12. An absolutely terrific show that left my head spinning with ideas.

    Planetary consciousness reaching out in distress way back then?

    I have just watched David Paulides latest YouTube video and this may a pivotal moment in David’s personal journey and perhaps also with regard to his investigations.

    Please consider watching, it is so relevant to so much discussed here, especially within the area of life beyond the physical.


  13. Jacques Vallee and Paola Harris, in deep gratitude, I thank you for this interview with Whitley. Somewhere in the midst of this interview the 2002 mini-series ‘TAKEN’ came storming back into my mind but I have no idea what triggered it? I do remember someone taped the whole series (perhaps me, so long ago I know longer remember) but for the next few years I watched the whole series on a regular bases. 

    Whitley, today I re-read the first chapter from ‘COMMUNION,’ just felt a strong urge to do so. What I did not realize before is how the writers of the mini-series must have looked into this book and your experiences. Taken – Episode 02 around a half hour in, the date shown is December 25, 1958. My eyes saw the last two numbers as 1985 (December 26th, only one day off) which was the date of YOUR INCREDIBLE ENCOUNTER AT THE CABIN IN NEW YORK.  While reading the first chapter of COMMUNION, you write about being ‘TAKEN AWAY’ and of course Jacob and his mom live in TEXAS. Pretty synchronistic, I think? Probably most people have already figured this out but I am just now seeing it. Also, thank you for the Subscriber Special video.

    Taken – Episode 02 – Jacob And Jesse (Türkçe Altyazi)

  14. Hello mr strieber. I am a fellow pilgrim. I would urge you to read chapter 43 of “autobiography of a yogi” by paramahansa yogananda.
    In it he relates a story about how his guru, having just died, appeared on his hotel balcony made of light. He goes on to describe the cosmos in broad terms, including where humans and “aliens” fit, before he flies away to a distant planet to teach at a school. I was reading that book as a teen at the same time as communion, transformation, etc. Synchronicity. Thanks for all your work and bearing all the ridicule to tell the truth. Your hard work has enriched my life greatly.
    Sincerely Tim miner

Leave a Reply