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Nick Redfern returns for his 13th episode on Dreamland and it’s a blockbuster! He has two red hot books out, one on the depths of the Slenderman story that has caused so much fear and violence. Nick asks the question, “Since Slenderman is definitely the creation of a human imagination, why did so many people come to think it had some sort of reality?” And he answers this question in a very well informed and completely surprising way.

Then we explore a huge new book: Control: MK Ultra, Chemtrails, and the Conspiracy to Suppress the Masses.

Ted Turner famously offer the opinion that Earth could sustain only a few hundred million people long term. A population of seven billion is clearly not going to work for long. So, are there sinister presences, human and/or otherwise, that seek to hasten the breakdown of life on Earth?

Then he and Whitley go on to talk about the mysterious deaths of Marilyn Monroe and famed columnist Dorothy Kilgallen and how they might have related to the UFO phenomenon. 

For the first time ever, they explain the secret that might be sensitive enough to kill for! What a show!!

Nick Redfern’s website: NickRedfernFortean 

Get the Slenderman Mysteries. Click here!Get Control: MK-Ultra, Chemtrails and the Conspiracy to Suppress the Masses. Click here!

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  1. I have noticed that I said at
    I have noticed that I said at the start of the show that Nick has been coming on since 1912. I meant 2012. But his first show was in 2011. Nobody has ever called me a math genius!

    1. LOL! You wouldnt be the
      LOL! You wouldnt be the first to make that mistake, I’m sure 😉

  2. I just thought you were being
    I just thought you were being tongue-in-cheek – just like you said, he’s written a “few” books.

  3. What a fabulous interview.
    What a fabulous interview. Thank you Whitley and Nick Redfern. There are so many subjects to comment on.

    Whitley, you left us with a question. In my opinion (only) the two brothers Ea also known as Enki and his brother Enlil, PLUS their families are still in conflict. Enlil, lets get rid of them (us). Lord Enki, NO, I have created/enhanced them and they are mine…….Also wondering if Humbaba was a mechanical robot/android created by Enki?

    The Epic of Gilgamesh/Character List

    Gilgamesh – King of Uruk, the strongest of men, and the personification of all human virtues. A brave warrior, fair judge, and ambitious builder, Gilgamesh surrounds the city of Uruk with magnificent walls and erects its glorious ziggurats, or temple towers. Two-thirds god and one-third mortal, Gilgameshis undone by grief when his beloved companion Enkidu dies, and by despair at the prospect of his own extinction. He travels to the ends of the Earth in search of answers to the mysteries of life and death.
    Read an in-depth analysis of Gilgamesh.

    Enkidu – Companion and friend of Gilgamesh. Hairy-bodied and brawny, Enkidu was raised by animals. Even after he joins the civilized world, he retains many of his undomesticated characteristics. Enkidulooks much like Gilgameshand is almost hisphysical equal. He aspires to be Gilgamesh’s rival but instead becomes his soul mate. The gods punish Gilgamesh and Enkidu by giving Enkidu a slow, painful, inglorious death for killing the demon Humbaba and the Bull of Heaven.
    Read an in-depth analysis of Enkidu.

    Shamhat – The temple prostitute who tames Enkidu by seducing him away from his natural state. Though Shamhat’s power comes from her sexuality, it is associated with civilization rather than nature. She represents the sensuous refinements of culture—the sophisticated pleasures of lovemaking, food, alcohol, music, clothing, architecture, agriculture, herding, and ritual.

    Utnapishtim – A king and priest of Shurrupak, whose name translates as “He Who Saw Life.” By the god Ea’s connivance, Utnapishtim survived the great deluge that almost destroyed all life on Earth by building a great boat that carried him, his family, and one of every living creature to safety. The gods granted eternal life to him and his wife.
    Read an in-depth analysis of Utnapishtim.

    Utnapishtim’s Wife – An unnamed woman who plays an important role in the story. Utnapishtim’s wife softens her husband toward Gilgamesh, persuading him to disclose the secret of the magic plant called How-the-Old-Man-Once-Again-Becomes-a-Young-Man.

    Urshanabi – The guardian of the mysterious “stone things.” Urshanabi pilots a small ferryboat across the Waters of Death to the Far Away place where Utnapishtim lives. He loses this privilege when he accepts Gilgamesh as a passenger, so he returns with him to Uruk. Read an in-depth analysis of Utnapishtim.

    The Hunter – Also called the Stalker. The hunter discovers Enkidu at a watering place in the wilderness and plots to tame him.

    Partial List of Important Deities and Demons
    Anu – The father of the gods and the god of the firmament.

    Aruru – A goddess of creation who fashioned Enkidu from clay and her spittle.

    Ea – The god of fresh water, crafts, and wisdom, a patron of humankind. Ea lives in Apsu, the primal waters below the Earth.

    Humbaba – The fearsome demon who guards the Cedar Forest forbidden to mortals. Humbaba’s seven garments produce an aura that paralyzes with fear anyone who would withstand him. He is the personification of awesome natural power and menace. His mouth is fire, he roars like a flood, and he breathes death, much like an erupting volcano. In his very last moments he acquires personality and pathos, when he pleads cunningly for his life.

    Scorpion-Man – Guardian, with his wife, of the twin-peaked mountain called Mashu, which Shamash the sun god travels through every night. The upper parts of the monsters’ bodies are human, and the lower parts end in a scorpion tail. They are familiar figures in Mesopotamian myth.

    Siduri – The goddess of wine-making and brewing. Siduri is the veiled tavern keeper who comforts Gilgamesh and who, though she knows his quest is futile, helps him on his way to Utnapishtim. Read an in-depth analysis of Siduri.

    Tammuz – The god of vegetation and fertility, also called the Shepherd. Born a mortal, Tammuz is the husband of Ishtar.

    Enlil – God of earth, wind, and air. A superior deity, Enlil is not very fond of humankind.

    Ereshkigal – Terrifying queen of the underworld.

    Ishtar – The goddess of love and fertility, as well as the goddess of war. Ishtar is frequently called the Queen of Heaven. Capricious and mercurial, sometimes she is a nurturing mother figure, and other times she is spiteful and cruel. She is the patroness of Uruk, where she has a temple.

    Lugulbanda – Third king of Uruk after the deluge (Gilgamesh is the fifth). Lugulbanda is the hero of a cycle of Sumerian poems and a minor god. He is a protector and is sometimes called the father of Gilgamesh.

    Ninsun – The mother of Gilgamesh, also called the Lady Wildcow Ninsun. She is a minor goddess, noted for her wisdom. Her husband is Lugulbanda.

    Shamash – The sun god, brother of Ishtar, patron of Gilgamesh. Shamash is a wise judge and lawgiver.

    WHITLEY, YOU ALSO COMMENTED ON THE OLD MOVIE, “Forbidden Planet.” It scared the heck out of me too.
    The Monster From The Id

  4. A terrific show.

    A terrific show.

    While listening to the show I decided to hang out some washing.

    Standing in the garden in radiant sunshine I suddenly noticed that the bird chatter was intelligible.

    Quite out of the blue, a bird ‘voice’ said:
    “Wisdom is video passion.”

    As usual, I just carried on with my business and have spent this beautiful morning pondering God’s word.


  5. Fascinating show!
    Fascinating show!

  6. When Mr. Redfern spoke about
    When Mr. Redfern spoke about Alan More seeing a figure like he had imagined, I remembered one of the books I was just listening to.

    I have been in binge listening heaven, If there is such a thing, to classics such as
    ” Far Journeys ” by Robert Monroe and “Penetration” by Ingo Swan, the remote viewing expert hired by the government.

    In one of these, i remember one of them stating that while out of body in his living room he realizes that the fireplace that his wife and he have been planning to do is already beginning to take form in the ether. Even though they had so far just spoken about it! What happened to Mr. Moore might be along those lines.

    I had to find again what Mr. Moore wrote and here it is:

    “One interesting anecdote that I should point out is that one day, I was in Westminster in London — this was after we had introduced the character — and I was sitting in a sandwich bar. All of a sudden, up the stairs came John Constantine. He was wearing the trenchcoat, a short cut — he looked — no, he didn’t even look exactly like Sting. He looked exactly like John Constantine. He looked at me, stared me straight in the eyes, smiled, nodded almost conspiratorially, and then just walked off around the corner to the other part of the snack bar.

    I sat there and thought, should I go around that corner and see if he is really there, or should I just eat my sandwich and leave? I opted for the latter; I thought it was the safest. I’m not making any claims to anything. I’m just saying that it happened. Strange little story.” – Alan Moore.

    By the way, “Constantine” is a fabulous movie. HIghly recommend!!

    What a great show! I love the very beginning of each with THE VOICE: THIS IS WHITLEY STRIEBER AND THIS IS DREAMLAND YOU’VE REACHED THE EDGE OF THE WORLD… aint that the truth!!…

    I love taking this journey with you guys!

    ps. save what u are going to write here on another page first, just in case u get that dreaded ajax!!!! and lose it.
    But hey, nothing worthwhile is without effort.

  7. What year is It? They seem to
    What year is It? They seem to fly by.

  8. That part about creating
    That part about creating entities brought to mind our belief in Santa and the Easter Bunny. It seems someone would have scene these entities by now.

  9. Eugenegerard, I’m not so sure
    Eugenegerard, I’m not so sure about Santa but there is a connection between giant rabbits and UFO abduction lore and the paranormal…there have been discussions comments regarding that on ‘The Experience’ a couple of times – give ‘rabbit’ a quick search on UC. As an example, in Spielberg’s ‘Taken’ TV series, one of the characters is taken from their childhood home by a giant rabbit…and then of course there is Donnie Darko.

    As an aside, whilst I was thinking about this earlier, the phrase ‘rabbit symbolism’ came to mind…I then looked at the clock and it was 11:11…I’m not sure if that means a thing but I just thought I would mention it.

    1. Sherbet…Rabbits…Oh, yeah!
      Sherbet…Rabbits…Oh, yeah! Rabbit symbolism is a very important symbol for alchemy! Since I discussed my own rabbit encounter with Jeremy, I’ve been doing the research, and you and I are on the same page regarding rabbits…Back in March, I sent this to Jeremy Vaeni via email:

      “While I am not a registered, card-carrying member of the Rosicrucians (AMORC), I have found some concepts and philosophies on their site that pretty much dovetail with things that i have learned and grown into through life experience. ( You may be too young to remember it, but at one time the Rosicrucians ran little ads in magazines and periodicals to entice new membership into their ranks. As a little girl, these ads really piqued my curiosity to no end!) Anyway, back to the rabbit…

      Apparently, rabbits are symbols for lots of things, but in Rosicrucian philosophy, they are very much tied to alchemy. I am attaching this link, that has all kinds of esoteric drawings and symbolism going on (pretty heavy, deep, AND confusing stuff), but for our purposes just scroll down to page 9 and the illustration, Mons Philosphorum. If you read the commentary below it, it references the symbols and their meanings. There are two rabbits in the illustration, but the commentary only references the one on the left of the philosopher as representing “the art of chemistry, marvelously white, the secrets of which with fire’s heat are being explored.” Opposite the rabbit is hen sitting on her nest (hopefully and patiently nurturing an egg to hatch.) There is a second rabbit leaping at the base of the illustration, so the message of the rabbit appears to be one of of alchemy through exploration forged in fire (that’s the really simple version) tempered with patience—if you want to get to the top of the mountain.

      If you want to go down a real rabbit hole, you could get into Lewis Carroll’s stories too…

      Steven Spielberg’s ‘screen-memory’ of a large rabbit in his mini-series, ‘Taken’, is also something to ponder as it pertains to the so-called ‘Visitors’ and the mystery of the extremely weird experiences so many of us have been through, ‘aliens’ and UFOS being the tip of the iceberg for many us.”

      And as discussed by some of us in the past, the play and movie, ‘Harvey’ about a ‘pooka’ that appears as a giant rabbit is also very much of symbol of transformation through love and kindness towards all. (He is invisible to everyone but Elwood P. Dowd at the beginning, but Harvey’s presence is felt by many by the end of the story).

      Nick Redfern is always a welcome interview!

  10. Cosmic, I didn’t mention you
    Cosmic, I didn’t mention you by name but I might as well have done! I was hoping you would add something pertinent and wasn’t dissappointed…fascinating stuff…many thanks. My phone power is on 1% so will have to post now 🙂

  11. Great show, Nick Redfern is
    Great show, Nick Redfern is always super-interesting. I recognized in this show some connections to a book I am currently re-reading, “Daimonic Reality” by Patrick Harpur (1994). It is virtually a general field theory of paranormal creatures, and I see it as comparable with “Super Natural”. When I first read it, I got the impression that Harpur was dismissing the wide variety of otherworldly experiences by a Jungian explanation, but on reading him again, I see that he states that these phenomena are definitely real. I wonder if Whitley knows about this book – I would love to hear him comment on it, love it even more if he could have Harpur as a guest. He has written other extraordinary books.

  12. Whitley and Nick: regarding
    Whitley and Nick: regarding Sitchin, what do you make of the rebuttal by a real Sumerian scholar, Dr Michael Heiser? I suppose the Annunaki idea is possible, but it sounds like Sitchin was, shall we say, somewhat creative in his translation of the Sumerian.

  13. I think that the rebuttal is

    I think that the rebuttal is important and should be taken seriously. Sitchin, however, maintained that conventional experts were essentially too Eurocentric to translate the language accurately. True or not, I don’t know, and he is no longer here to defend his work.

    I recently read a book about hieroglyphics called the Dawning Moon of the Mind by Susan Brind Morrow. She is an acknowledged expert on hieroglyphics and maintains that much of the translation done on the Pyramid Text located on the walls of the Pyramid of Unas is marred by essentially the same sort of assumptions that Sitichin is complaining about, that we are looking back from a position of superior insight and sophistication on the efforts of primitive people.

    I don’t know if Morrow has any idea of Sitchin, but their complaints are essentially the same. The difference is that her defense of her translations is a masterpiece of scholarship, and Sitchin’s is not.

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