Joshua Cutchin, much loved Dreamland guest, author and musician, is back to talk to Whitley about the mystery of the visitors and their strange similarity to the beings we see written about in ancient fairy lore.

In this incredible interview, Joshua and Whitley discuss the apparent connection between the visitor phenomenon, death and the afterlife, and a fascinating story about the symbolism of the white moth. What is it that links close encounters, mythology, death, and the living? Could it be that the people on the other side have technology, and that this is what we are witnessing in UFO/UAP sightings? If so, what are they trying to tell us?


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  1. We are NOT primarily physical beings. NASA cannot figure out dark energy and dark matter, but ‘normal matter’, or the physical universe, is about 5%. I believe we need to realize that not only is this the case at cosmic scales, but right here, our bodies are perhaps 5% of us (of any living being). There is no reason not to suspect that the 95% of us and of our world is not as complex, detailed, dynamic, and abiding by laws relative to its nature as the 5% which we define as physical.

  2. It was mentioned during the show that the spiritual/paranormal side of the phenomenon is still very much taboo in the public discussion. Yet there is an episode of Skinwalker ranch where they have a rabbi come over to the ranch to perform an ancient prayer for the opening of portals (!) and then something strange happens… So perhaps things are slooowly changing here?

    1. “Yet there is an episode of Skinwalker ranch where they have a rabbi come over to the ranch to perform an ancient prayer for the opening of portals (!) and then something strange happens… So perhaps things are slooowly changing here?”


      1. That makes my day for sure, even though this discussion is going down the rabbi hole!

  3. Two questions for Whitley: you mentioned improvements to human technology resulting from ufo recoveries; and interactions between members of the DoD and the “tall blonds”. Where can we learn about these topics from a trustworthy source, if there is such a thing?

    1. Yes, I’ve also wondered if there is a book or other public account of the tall whites that you consider accurate, Whitley? There was a former Air Force sergeant who claimed extensive contact with them in the deserts of CA or NV in the 1960s who gave very detailed accounts of his interactions.

      1. I think you are talking about Charles Hall. Some have criticised his story but I find it quite compelling….

        Millenial Hospitality book series by Charles Hall:

        Walking with the Tall Whites (based on the Millenial Hospitality series) Prime Video:

        Charles Hall on YouTube:

    2. Pascal, regarding improvements to human technology via UFO recoveries, you might find the book ‘The Day After Roswell’, Colonel Philip J. Corso (Retired) of interest…

      Extract from the Synopsis: “…Corso was a Special Assistant to Lt General Arthur Trudeau, who headed Army Research and Development, and was in charge of the Foreign Technology Desk. In this position, he would take technological artifacts obtained from Russian, German and other foreign sources, and have American companies reverse engineer that technology. The book contends that several aspects of modern technology such as fiber optics and integrated circuits were developed by using information taken from the craft…”.

      1. I had completely forgotten he’d been on Dreamland. Thanks Whitley!

        Charles is on, talking about the ‘Tall Whites’, from 14:20 to 1:00:00 (on the Subscriber version).

  4. Talking about the ‘Midwife to the Faeries’ tales and the connection to the so-called Men in Black, reminds me of the ‘Men in Black’ movie where the Will Smith character (Agent J), as a new recruit, is thrust into helping the birth of a humanoid-squid-faerie being, with large black eyes…

    Enjoy 🙂

  5. A fantastic discussion. One thing to love about Dreamland is that you have two people talking about the most out there material the human mind can imagine and they both sound more rational, even keeled, and intelligent than 99% of other public discourse these days. A wonderful irony. Thanks!

  6. Yes, Bravo! Enjoyed every minute! Very interesting topics.

    I do want to say there is more to us then just the ego.
    There is an awareness that quietly watches everything without judgement.
    Ask yourself “Am I Aware?”

  7. Lovely interview.

    The suggestion that we may be describing the UFO/UAP/Visitor experience as a function of where we are as a culture is enlightening.

    Possibly, we are describing the same things that have been seen for eons through the eyes of this particular place in time. We look to the stars as the great unknown now, no longer just the planet, therefore our observations are rooted in this modern paradigm. They’re not flaming chariots in the sky anymore, but glowing discs and black almond-shaped eyes.

  8. If you don‘t mind, Whitley, could you describe the colour of the sky that Anne went up in? Could a colour be a sign, hint or even remembrance of that other world?

  9. Author

    It was the purest, deepest sky blue I have ever seen.

    1. This reminds me of an after-death account found in the Leslie Flint mediumship material, where the deceased person recalls a blue that was beyond anything he had seen in the material world. For whatever that’s worth. I wonder if that color does have some kind of significance or is seen commonly by people as they pass to the next world.

  10. Just got around to listening to this interview. Really enjoyed it. Thanks Whitley!

  11. fantastic interview. My favorite Hollywood descent into the underworld is pretty woman. Almost at the start of the movie, Richard Gere’s character is handed the keys to his mates car. Richard, leaves the party by himself. The next scene is you see him drive down a hill in the twilight headed towards the city. Starting his voyage into the underworld.

  12. I’ve been looking for a place to add this, and today’s podcast looks like an appropriate spot:

    Whitley has often mentioned the connection between the Visitors and deceased humans. This smacked me between the eyes recently with some material about the Scole Experiment, long-term investigations into mediumship in England. First I watched a documentary, this one I think:

    The spirits involved produced a great many physical manifestations, using our technology and who knows, possibly their own. These included images and messages on sealed pieces of film. In the documentary, a lot of images of faces quickly flashed by. Among them was a face that was indisputably that of a Gray, as well as a brief, less clear video that looked like it might be a Visitor too. These went by without any comment whatsoever, as if they were no more remarkable than the human faces being shown.

    I then ordered the book “Witnessing the Impossible,” a summary of everything that had happened at Scole. When the book arrived, I leafed through to see if there were pictures. Indeed there were, and on the first page of photos was another very definite Gray face. The caption said it was one of the “Stellar Friends.”

    Nothing I have read before about the Scole group mentioned anything about such entities being contacted. I was a bit freaked out.

    I hope Whitley notices this corroboration of what he’s been saying. Perhaps he already knows about it?

    (BTW, the documentary also talks about Electronic Voice Phenomena, in which the dead can give audible messages. Vicki Talbott’s work is included. I’ve met and corresponded with Vicki, and personally experienced some dramatic phenomena in her presence.)

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