Rob Hipkiss never expected to get involved in Dr. Steven Greer’s CE5 program or anything remotely like it. But he did and wound up spending a lot of money and taking off on an adventure from his native English county of Kent to Tenirefe. So what happened then? Did the program work, or did he return home a sadder but wiser man? Listen as Whitley explores the experience with Rob. What is the CE5 program? What do you do during a CE5 experience? And should you consider Dr. Greer’s program or Kosta Makreas ET Let’s Talk or any of them, or should you embark on your own solitary efforts, or, for that matter, do anything at all?

Does contact matter to living life, and if so, are formal CE5 experiences a viable way of experiencing it?

Listen and find out!

A CE5 is the designation of a close encounter that involves personal interaction with unknown entities. It is based on J. Allan Hyenk’s encounter classification system originally published in his book The UFO Experience: A Scientific Inquiry where he postulated close encounters of the first, second and third kinds. A CE1 is a visual sighting of a UFO less than 500 feet away. A CE2 is a close observation with physical effects, such as the leaving of traces. A CE3 is a visual observation where entities are also seen.

There are two extensions of the Hynek system: the CE4 where entities abduct the witness and the CE5 which involves direct communication between the unknown entity and the human. On this edition of Dreamland, we are discussing a type of CE5 where the human solicits an encounter with the unknown entity.

For more information about close encounter classifications, click here.

Dreamland Video podcast
To watch the FREE video version on YouTube, click here.

Subscribers, to watch the subscriber version of the video, first log in then click on Dreamland Subscriber-Only Video Podcast link.


  1. This was very comforting to hear such a level headed person relate all of what he shared here.

    I remember the early days. First, the idea of CE5 arose individually in some people after Transformation was published. Which inspired me to explore the idea and attempt to network about such an approach. Someone gave me Greer’s phone number, before his public life, saying this guy was suggesting the same idea. Greer was defintely earnest, eager and sincere when I called him.

    I went to an early workshop by him in Berkeley and we did the ce5 protocols in the Berkeley Hills afterwards. No laser lights then….he used powerful spotlights. There was just normal aircraft being seen. A Russian pilot named Marina Popovich briefly dropped by and I was a bit surprised he told her we had seen alien craft.

    Rob talking about having no expectations is likely a mindset none of us brought to the table back then, lol. Good to hear his group seems mature and aware of a spontaneous dynamic requiring just focus and a relaxed approach. A small group of us formed after that Berkeley workshop….dont remember anything unusual from our night time outtings in the Napa Valley. I do remember we were full of ideas and expectations.

    1. Thank you for listening to my stories . With regard to aircraft, we have twice watched an aircraft approach us at night with usual nav lights on only to disappear into a small cloud and not come out the other side . No noise nothing . So always keep your eyes on aircraft as they may not be what we think .

      1. Besides seeing two very bright lights not very high passing above me moving really fast, then slow, then super fast again, as if one was waiting for the other to catch up, evoking me a the thought and feeling “Majestic” as it was awe inspiring, until they both moved over the hill in front of me, I’ve also seen many “commercial jets” and “zeppelins” float by above me in total silence. Many of those times I was with other people who also saw them.
        And one time saw a classic flying saucer slowly approach in my direction coming from the east, slowly tilting on its axis, the left side of the disk going down while its right side went up, and then back the other way again, back and forth. Because of that I bright white light seem to go on and off from its domed top in the middle of the aluminum looking disk, but as the draft was coming closer, I saw it was the sunlight from the south reflecting off it when the craft was tilting its top side towards it. (I now interpret that as meaning there are still some doubts in my subconscious about God being our true Identity and It being infinitely great pure altruistic Charity, that “light” or consciousness being there for moments, but then disappearing again.)
        I so much wanted other to see it too, as it was getting so close -maybe only some 500 meters or yards from where I was standing on my 5th floor balcony. I saw one man across the parking space in front of the building I was looking from, and he was speaking using his smart phone, standing closely with his back towards a lower 3 story high building, and I realized he would not be able to see it from his position even if he would turn around.
        But I also saw two men in protective suits cleaning the long balcony -gallery- running along the in front of the whole second floor of the 3 story building below and in front of me to my right side. One of them was using a broom, and the other a high water pressured spout. So I called loudly out to them, but because of the loud noise that spout made, they didn’t hear me. Yet then the spouting stopped for a moment, as the man holding it was moving to a next segment, so I called again “Haaay!” But they looked over the balustrade down, thinking someone on the balcony below them or on the street was complaining about the water falling down. So again I called out, as the craft could not been missed if they would only look in the direction I was going to point out for them. But just as I shouted again the spout was turned back on, and again they didn’t hear me. Boy did that feel frustrating!
        The spouting continued as I saw the craft at some 400 meters distance begin to turn to the north, away from me, only becoming still visible through the tree branches without leaves because of the late autumn. (It was in diameter about the size of the length of a regular 40 persons passenger bus.)
        After a short while I understood that even if I would point in its direction and the men would see it, it was so far away by now they would think that small far away thing was but a helicopter, and that I was crazy for pointing at it.
        Feeling a mixture of excitement and frustration I went back inside… but I accept it was but for me to see, and understand the symbolic spiritual meaning of it, as a message from Back Stage.
        Those first sightings took place in the Sonora, Mexico, a desert environment where I lived then in the small mountain town Alamos.
        The last one was later some years ago already in Amsterdam. Later that day I searched for news about that, as I was moving so slowly and for at least some 10 or more minutes at a height of about a 100 meters above the southern part of the city. But nothing was reported.
        If I had had a video camera at that time, and recorded it, and uploaded it on YouTube, no one would believe it was not a fake. It would have looked “too real to be true.”

        1. Correction:
          “evoking in me the thought and feeling “Majestic” as it was awe inspiring,” (Those two very bright fairly big white lights.)
          A young man was standing next to me, when something made me and the man look up. Then I saw the two lights right above us. The man began to call his family inside the house we were in front of, and his father, mother, sister and a lady teacher, family who was staying with them, all came out and “Ooh!”ed and “Aah”ed seeing those big bright lights move in total silence, and the young Mexican man asked me (in Spanish, as he spoke no English) “What are they, don Lode?” and I replied “Ovnis” (“UFO’s”) in English. Then he asked “What are Ovnis?” and I said (translated) “Unidentified flying spacecraft not from this world.”

  2. This was a very interesting interview, but I felt that more about the subject should have been explained before launching into Mr Hipkiss’s tale. For example, I had a vague notion of what CE5 might be, but I had to Google it. But Mr Hipkiss seems like an engaging an unpretentious guy, and his laugh and accent kept reminding me a bit of Ricky Gervais.

    1. I love Ricky Gervais lol . If my story made you investigate CE-5 more then my mission was complete . There are many different ways to achieve contact and I encourage you to explore them .

  3. Very real and interesting. When the disciples asked Jesus if they too could heal and do miracles he responded they could and much more. Intention is the key to us unlocking who and what we really are. But convincing ourselves is a hurdle i don’t think most of us will cross without something like this “training”. i see it more as a letting go of and remembering who we really are. Good interview. Thank you!

    1. Thank you for your kind response, Whitley has a great sense of humour and I’m sure the ‘Visitors’ pick up on that . This is a good trait for the group to have and aids to make them more cohesive.

      1. I can’t comment on everything you are saying, as it would take way to long and too much typing and text, but those two lights flashes you saw appear on the inside of that tent, seemingly coming from outside of it, symbolize the souls of your wife and you. The tent symbolizes the awareness of this world you shared. The temporary “canvas” on which this world you both experienced then was “painted.” (If you are still together for helping each other as souls the “painting” made by your souls continues. If one of you were to leave this world, but still help each other as souls, that would also continue, although you still appearing as a human in this world might see only the external appearance of the “painting” more than the spiritual significance of what you are doing together. While your partner soul would see the real meaning of it to a greater degree “Back Stage” while you are still appearing here “On Stage.”
        The reason for thinking that is that the night before a young lady came to share my small two room apartment with me the next day, I saw two very bright lights in the starry night sky above me.
        Only later did it dawn on me that had been a symbolic sign of what what about to take place beginning the next day. That young lady taught me crucial spiritual lessons, and I her. In that sense we were helping each other. Sometimes her soul would be ahead of mine, sometimes my soul ahead of hers, so one would wait for the other to catch up, and then we could proceed further next to each other.
        Not that we were aware or conscious of that at the time.
        (And there was no sex either. Some force stronger than us prevented that from happening.)
        When we could not teach each other more, be it mostly subconsciously then, she moved out, became pregnant from a boy her age, and became a mother of her first child. I moved back to Amsterdam from Mexico. She had let me know she wanted to have children, but before doing that her soul had decided to give mine a good strong boost. So I would be far ahead on my spiritual journey. But free to do so without having to also take care of a family, which would have been too much for me to handle as well as still proceeding fully on my spiritual path. The latter would have been slowed down to just about a stop.
        I didn’t consciously know any of that then, but see it now in hindsite.
        I have described seeing those bright lights in one of my other posts on this thread.

  4. Thank you both for this uplifting interview. It certainly had a ring of truth about it. Glad to hear that Whitley and Bob had so much in common. I felt that the intimacy they expressed with each other was of such great insight that I actually was part of the ‘in-crowd’.

    Not all of us have the discipline or the fortitude to follow your guys’ path, but as for the rest of us, we know you are on an amazing adventure.

    Myself, personally have wondered why am I so intrigued by the obvious presence of these advanced beings? They sure don’t have any interest in me as an individual, but I swear if they showed up in my life I would handle it like it was no thang.

    Could it be that they want to find people who are impressed by their appearance/presence?

    I know they watch everything that people post here, that’s why I try to be provocative in my posts, ha-ha!

    1. You may be right saying the visitors choose people for specific reasons but tbh I have no idea if that is true or not . Thank you for your comment and I encourage you to try it for yourself.

  5. I don’t think you have to do the CE5 for contact Whitley. I’ve had contact without.

    1. Author

      I’ve never done anything like this, either, but it does seem to work for some people.

  6. I have not heard you talk about the incident at the cabin where a small ufo landed on the pool deck and took you for a ride.

    The guest referred to listening to your “Cabin tales” and I am wondering if this is something I missed (a show A special?) or something you might write in the future?

  7. I have not heard you talk about the incident at the cabin where a small ufo landed on the pool deck and took you for a ride.

    The guest referred to listening to your “Cabin tales” and I am wondering if this is something I missed (a show, a special?) or something you might write in the future?

    1. Author

      I described the experience riding in that thing in Breakthrough. The event changed my life. Others were taken in it also, but for shorter journeys. I was taken to Boulder Colorado where I witnessed an event involving a child who became very close to me and Anne as a result, and whom to this day I consider my spiritual daughter. We remain very close.

  8. Yet another fascinating podcast.
    About that woman changing into a man:

    In this virtual reality dreamlike world things appear that are symbols reflecting and pointing at the spiritual reality beyond this collective dreamland.

    The receiving soul is symbolized as female, because it receives first and then reciprocates by expanding what was received back to the initiating giving Source in the sense of sharing it with the Source, and thus the Source sharing it with the soul, which was the intent of the Source from the beginning.

    Just as a woman receives the seed from the man first, then expands that to giving birth to a new human, thus sharing the child with the father, and the father sharing it with the mother.
    So also that is a reflection and symbolic signpost pointing at the spiritual reality beyond this dreamlike virtual reality.

    God is the initiator as giver of Himself to each one of us by experiencing everything we experience. Then our soul accepts that God is its true Being, even though still in human appearance. And finally it gives birth to the Christ as Son in us in union with the Father, in which God consciously loves Himself as the Father the Son, and as the Son as the Father. That is called “the Whole or Holy Spirit”, because now the seeming and experienced separation from God is healed, and union or oneness with our true Being is enjoyed. Our true Being being infinitely great pure altruistic Love and Charity.
    As for psychic or supernatural experiences, the safest way to deal with them so as not to be deceived has been written by the two most famous Spanish mystics Theresa of Avila and John of the Cross. Theresa wrote about it in various writings, but John of the Cross mainly in his work “Ascend of Mount Carmel.” By searching for terms like “locutions” -hearing voices that are not one’s own- and “visions” in that book here one will find those advises:
    The main thing John of the Cross repeats time and again in his works of having crucial importance is having faith, hope, and love. And the willingness to experience everything for God, even the cross of experiencing being but human.

  9. Friday evening I listened to this MOST EXCELLENT INTERVIEW, went to bed a few hours later then woke up this morning with a thought running through my mind. (Are we as a species changing because the frequencies/vibrations of our planet are changing?) Here are a few articles I was able to find on the Internet BUT there is a LOT of information out there. THE TRUTH??? Maybe a few of the subscribers have a better handle on this. 

    Article published by: Carol Mann, Planet Jackson Hole.

    “As we move through the Universe.”

    What does the spike in the Schumann resonance mean?

    Frequency of the electromagnetic field of the planet Earth is changing

    1. Author

      This seems like a very good topic for Dreamland. I’ll do some research.

    2. I wonder if the so-called “shift” of 2012 actually did happen, but EVERYTHING was affected.

      If so, it would be akin to a fractal jump — the next higher level would look very much like the previous lower level.

      In other words, if everything changed (accelerated) its vibration equally, there would be no static reference (from our world’s perspective) to realize that it occurred.

      Unless something far outside of our sphere of newly increased vibration could peer into our changed world from a static reference point that had NOT changed. From such a static outside reference point, they could see and quantify that our local world’s vibration HAD changed.

      Speculating, I think there could be different regions and currents of energy flow in our galaxy where even the laws and constants of physics are somehow different than we know them here. A static reference point would have to be far outside of our arc/slice of the galactic pie. Our world would have to be observed using something like remote viewing.

      Our solar system might have entered a different region of galactic energy that began approximately with the 2012 “non-event.”

      If that is the case, perhaps on an inner consciousness (and “conscience”) level, many people’s soul or inner being somehow know they do not qualify for a release or lifting of karma without an expenditure of their own efforts. They might sense that reality was somehow different, but nobody would have a way of objectively proving it.

      Maybe this is why some people and society are a little crazy, or feel misaligned, or feel like something is going on, but don’t know what or why.

    3. CAROLLEE,
      Thank you for those links. The first one leads to a marvelous article in which the symbolism shown in this virtual reality as the acceleration of earth’s frequencies coming from the sun (symbol of the Source of light -consciousness- and warmth -love- together give life) come down to an increase in the realization of Love in us.
      Coincidentally this morning while still in bed this come up in my mind, as a reminder to be utilized during meditation – contemplation, and later also when not specially sitting for that, just to get into the loving mood (The Initiating Source in us is symbolized as male, the Soul as female in this virtual reality):

      “After having let Himself be spiritually tortured to death by taking on this human experience to give Himself and His Life to everyone’s Soul, it is that perfectly Good One Who undergoes this now out of pure infinitely courageous altruistic Charity.”

  10. Whitley, I am a muggle, but appreciate your weekly podcasts more all the time. I want to thank you for taking the step of including a follower of Stephen Greer, as Dr. Greer’s videos/writing really were my first serious looks at all the “edge of the world” topics you consider. I gathered immediately from your podcasts that you didn’t respect him, and I wondered why, but stopped reading his material. Your forthright acknowledgement of the reason in this podcast both resolved my questions adequately, and – more important – increased my appreciation for both you and Ann. Openness to “difficult others” always spells “spiritual growth” to me. Thanks much for this. AND I certainly appreciated this interview in its own right! Not to mention the previous one revealing so much from/about the Shroud of Turin. Thank you so very much for your work and caring.

  11. Whitley you usually give background for your topics for those who are not familiar with subject matter . CE5 is in the title of this interview . I am 20 minutes into this and still don’t know what it is . I’ve been a subscriber from the beginning although I am not a contactee. Please continue to define your topic before you talk about it .

  12. Author

    You are the second person to mention this and I’m sure there are many who are having exactly the same experience and I must apologize. I did not realize that this wasn’t more widely known. I will redo the opening remarks in the interview to explain fully what a CE5 is. Briefly, it is a human-initiated close encounter.

    1. Thank you Whitley. On another note I loved your guest’s laughter.

  13. the honey comb symbol is in meds that change your brain patterns maybe what you saw was a sign of a new level of enlightenment just a thought

  14. I am most intrigued in this podcast by the story of the shaman lady (starting at about timepoint 16:13 in the free Dreamlanders’ audio version).

    As of my comment posting, nobody has yet highlighted this.

    It blows me away that another human being in apparent stillness can cause such a profound change in another person’s awareness.

    What a gift this would be! But what an awesome responsibility this also would be!

    (“Not a lot of people like this,” said the shaman lady.)

    I always thought that a shaman was someone who experienced alternate states of consciousness (whether through substance influence, spiritual application, or both) for his or her own divination or revelatory purposes.

    But for a shaman to be able to exert such a profound external influence on another person is mind-blowing.

    Perhaps this is a similar mechanism whereby the Visitors exert their influence upon their experiencers with paralysis, telepathy and other directed effects.

    And perhaps this is a similar mechanism whereby spiritual power (shakti) is transferred from Master to the prepared disciple.

    Imagine if each of us were to responsibly develop this ability, and then to activate it with benevolent, conscious intention on a large enough scale to encompass the planet — not just to affect another person locally.

    I would surely like to learn this ability.

    I would be curious if a shamanic bond could be established on a phone conversation.

    If so, it would be awesome to have a live, private reading and spiritual counseling session with such a shaman/sha-woman!

    1. I would love to know more about what happened to him whilst with the Shaman, rather, what was happening to him, what state he was put into. Any Shamans out there? 🙂

  15. It works for some. Rob seems like a wonderful person- I enjoyed listening to his account; but as you’ve stated most never need ‘protocols’ to experience Inter-dimensional Crafts or ET’s! I’ve found a lot of followers in the CE-5 community anything but humble- in fact more of them are elitist, and act superior in their exclusive ‘group’. I haven’t practiced these protocols but I have access to them and did review them…and it takes a large cash flow to be able to involve oneself in these field trips. I’ve heard of nothing extraordinary from the group that world wide intuitive, spiritually evolving souls who have their own Contact/Experience haven’t experienced.

    1. Author

      I would agree here. For me it was just the sensing exercise. Maybe you can induce it more quickly in one of those groups, I don’t know. But I do know you can certainly do it without paying.

      1. Agreed! I do understand how people who want to engage in this may need some guidance, but it shouldn’t cost anything. Also, while being out in nature at night helps, it is also not necessary to expend money on travel. Some of my most profound contacts have been unexpected, and even in my own yard in the ‘burbs!

        Overall, this was an interesting, humorous, interview, and I would listen to further interviews with Rob as well!

  16. This was really interesting for me as I have been part of a CE5 contact group in Birmingham UK for 5-6 years off and on. We are in no way affiliated to Greer but do you his technique in our events and most of the time we get some kind of response. Some nights can be non starters but others have been full of phenomena such as orbs, flash bulbs that respond to laser flashes. We’ve had strange light forms in the sky and lights in formation. We use apps to discount saterlite’s though of course there are probably military ones nobody knows about. We once had a triangular craft fly over my friends house. No sound at all.

    You certainly don’t need to go on expensive field trips we did CE5 in my friends back garden for years. Now we mainly stay local and have special trips out to dark sky areas when we can.

    So I can honestly say the process does work. But like anything it depends greatly on how determined your are, your intention, cohesion within the group. Get the right people together in a group and it’s a magical thing. I’d also recommend having a good sun lounger type chair as looking at the sky all night plays havoc with your neck!!

  17. Author

    Location is an interesting subject. Our cabin was fairly isolated, but what I think was more important was that it was located over a huge seam of iron. The original iron mountain storage facility was a few miles away, as was the massive IG&G/Rotron storage facility. South of the cabin there is a road called Magnetic Mine Road where people see glowing orbs quite frequently.

    For some reason, all this added up to an area congenial to the visitors. BUT I also find that places with lots of caves seem popular with them. South Texas, where I grew up, for example, is honeycombed with limestone caves.

    And yet, I have contact quite frequently in this apartment in a crowded city. It’s not overt physical contact like happened at the cabin, but it is very close to that.

    I don’t think, in the end, that location matters to the visitors one bit. They’re going to go where they want to go.

    1. I lived in South Texas, and now I live in Central Texas, so lots of caves and limestone. There is an ancient burial ground thisclose right in my neighborhood as well.(Hidden in plain sight). There is the burial site of one of the oldest and most complete human skeletons found in North America very close by as well, dating back to around 11,000-12,000 years ago. So even though I live in what seems to be an everyday neighborhood, it’s still pretty special…And that’s all I’m saying…


  18. What a really great interview! I love his enthusiasm! I think any kind of a group effort will always have, if properly done, a bigger result than individual one will. I am happy to say that even in a very conservative State like Idaho the high-poverty school that I worked in several years ago, was teaching a meditation type technique first thing in the morning when kids came in and also movement to get their circulation going. Many of our children came in tired sometimes not fed and the combination of the two really help prep them to learn and calm them down. Many came from very horrific backgrounds the combination of the two early in the class day we’re really helpful from what the teachers told me. (I am an ex-librarian) Anyway I think there is hope for the school systems to do those kinds of things. On another note having had physical interactions a group experience like that might be really interesting. I have no idea how much some of these trip costs are or how many people attend? Anyway excellent interview!

  19. Thanks for the great interview. In line with teaching kids meditation, we can also include compassion and education of the heart as espoused by Tenzin Gyatso, i.e. Dali Lama.

  20. Thank you Whitley, what a wonderful episode. Wow, great guest, great questioning, fascinating.

Leave a Reply