Jeremy Vaeni is returning to Unknowncountry as the co-host of Dreamland. For many years, William Henry hosted once a month, then Jim Marrs, and now Jeremy. The entire run of his popular podcast the Experience, which he hosted on Unknowncountry from  December of 2014 until April of 2022 remains available to Unknowncountry subscribers. As a Dreamland host, he will not concentrate exclusively on the close encounter experience, but will explore the edge more broadly, and in his own unique way. And by unique we mean–well, you’ll just have to listen. He’s a committed, questioning and insightful interviewer who comes to the world of the unexplained with plenty of experiences of his own. His first edition of Dreamland will air on October 28, and he will be host for the fourth show every month from then on. (Or until he runs screaming…)

THIS WEEK THOUGH, we have something completely completely different from Jeremy, which is a fun, charming and hilariously serious interview about his new book, Aliens: the First and Final Disclosure. It in, Whitley explores his high strangeness life with him, his ideas about UFO disclosure (why is it always just around the corner??) and many other things, some of them pretty revealing and all of them pretty exciting. Bottom line: What if we were never in Kansas and never will be in Kansas. Bottom bottom line: What if the fat lady both already sang a long time ago and also is never going to sing? (There are even more bottom lines, but we digress…)

ENJOY! And get Jeremy’s book, PLEASE. Remember, he can see those numbers, so don’t break his heart and pass it by. Click here to join the wise insanity of Aliens: the First and Final Disclosure. (Click here to do exactly the same thing in a parallel universe.)

Anne Strieber was a huge Jeremy fan. She knew his work and she was the one who wanted the Experience on the site. How do we know this? Because when Whitley presented Afterlife Revolution at the Esalen Institute, the white moth appeared very dramatically and flew around a room packed with people. (This was in February. No moths at the time.) And where did it land? Among all those fifty heads, Whitley’s included–well, see for yourself! (That’s Jeremy. You can tell by the peculiar ear.)







Dreamland Video podcast
To watch the FREE video version on YouTube, click here.

Subscribers, to watch the subscriber version of the video, first log in then click on Dreamland Subscriber-Only Video Podcast link.


    1. Author

      This has been restored. I anticipated that this would occur as I am away. For at least 10 years, the show has been sabotaged in this way when I am not at home on a Friday. It is not a hacker of any normal sort and over the years we have never been able to find a trace of how it is done.

      1. You are the best Whitley! Honestly you have been one of my greatest teachers over the past few years . Thank you !

      2. Still no subscriber link to video (just the free version). Thank you, Whitley.

      3. Jeremy! ANY “Dreamland” is amazing and this subscriber loves watching Wonderful Whit on YouTube every week, with my beloved Annie looking over his shoulder. But Jeremy is a wonderful surprise for me after a week of serious illness and a trip to the ER for uncontrolled bleeding from, well, never mind. On top of that they found a bad spot on my lung. Mr. Vaeni s just the ticket to get me out of my selfish doldrums. Unknown Country is my weekly upper! I learn so much, and I’m still coming down from the last two weeks. Even my skeptical husband was glued to the screen. Thanks, Whitley and crew! Love everything about this, my favorite site.

        1. Thank you so much!

          Sorry to hear about your health issues. Doesn’t sound selfish to me. Glad we can make all that just a wee bit more bearable.

      4. Will miss seeing you and Jeremy. I always feel like you and your guests are friends on my home and we’re having a kiss-*** discussion with wine and delicious hor d’oeuvres, when I’m not holding onto my seat, that is!

        1. Author

          I’ll only be absent once a month! But Jeremy will be present–and because he is who he is, VERY present! Gotta love the guy!

      1. Hi, I couldn’t find a place to add a message so I hope you don’t mind that I am slipping it in here!?
        Thank you for all your work and your clear explanation of some of the things that have been going round and round my head for many years. I feel vindicated in my beliefs and it is uplifting to find ‘like minded’ people who think and feel as my husband and I do. Thank you Whitely.

  1. This is such good timing on yet another day where if at least 3 things of high weirdness don’t occur then it isn’t a normal day, lol.
    I was exploring this platform (ecosystem it seems), stumbled on Jeremy’s podcast and listened to the one where it was about him debating leaving. It was extremely aligned to how I think and believe about well….all of it.

    Something told me to look at a page I already forgot and so I see right then that you did a cast together. You both are great to listen to and hope a lot of us can keep sailing through these choppy waters.

    I really think both of the casts hit the nail on the head. You both are cool!

    Thank You for this space

  2. So we have these two main hypotheses on the nature of the alien/visitors:
    1) They are extraterrestrials coming from some other planet aboard their “nuts and bolts” spaceships.
    2) Then there are those for whom the phenomenon is of a spiritual nature: these beings have gotten rid of their egos, got in touch with their souls, they make one with the universe, etc… Today’s guest was definitely on that side.
    But why does it have to be an either/or proposition? I mean, why couldn’t these beings travel in spaceships, be very physical like us, but also have a different relationship with time, with their souls or their egos, etc…?

    1. Author

      I agree with you. Remember that there are people who very much want this to look like an alien invasion in order to get budget to fight it. They are fighting, in fact, and have been since the early 1950s–on our behalf, with our money but without consulting us.

      In truth, the presence that is here is very complex, with a whole array of different objectives and approaches. There is no reason whatsoever to say that it is either nuts and bolts or psychic/spiritual. It is clearly both, and more.

      1. Jeremy and you may have a point about the financial motivation. I have the impression, though, that at least some of the people associated with the military are genuinely curious and try to understand what is going on. But they need to disguise their curiosity under the veil of “national security,” or else they’ll be told that they must not spend time and (public) money on this. That’s one reason why there should be more civilian involvement. Academics like Avi Loeb or Garry Nolan spring to mind.

    2. Overall, I think you’re right, it can be both. I think ultimately, when one “wakes up” to wholeness–which, in large part, means timelessness–it doesn’t matter where they originate from. They could originally be from another planet or this one or the universe next door. Where are you from when everywhere is your playground? At that point, it’s just an origin story.

      However, that does not account for all of the weirdness, intimacy, and lifetime of mainly personal interactions that generally get interpreted as either a horror show or a journey of growth– with some societal UFO “waves” thrown in for good measure. And enlightened aliens wouldn’t really care if we died on our own petard. It would be another teardrop in the eye of eternity. Nature creates and kills all the time. (We often mistake personal feelings of love for impersonal Love and so imagine enlightenment, or wholeness, to include our sense of compassion-as-guilt-and-regret. I’d challenge that.)

      What I do in this book (and my last) is make the case that these beings feel like both others and us–either like relatives or actual aspects of us–because they are technically all three. They are beings as autonomous as we are living in a configuration of dimensions that are unseen by us, yet attached to us, and–essentially–are aspects of us. Unseen aspects. Dark matter is still matter and we are matter, therefore we are also dark matter–that sort of thing. And so they very much care whether we “wake up” or not because that is technically one waking oneself up. If we remain unconscious we remain their unconscious baggage. If we wake up, we and they become a super conscious being who transcends and includes both beings.

      As they are standing outside of our sense of time and place, they can see all of us. If there is such a thing as reincarnation, they see all of that. From our perspective, we’re running through this life moment to moment and we die. From their perspective all of our life, and perhaps lives, already exists and is in front of them. They can choose to pop in and influence us at any time, which is why there is so much synchronicity that looks like a hidden hand. When and why they do this is its own story.

      I won’t rewrite 2 books here but that’s the basic gist. Again, I’m not married to this idea, but the origin of it came from them–which I COMPLETELY forgot about until just last week when I listened to an old Paratopia Special where I talked about an experience during which this “came to me.” Maybe I’ll do an episode on that for Dreamland.

      Still, I’m not married to it. I think the important thing for me to do at this stage of my public presence is to encourage people to see just what “thinking outside the box” looks like because so many newbies believe just saying “aliens are here” is Mystery enough. It’s always a surface discussion, whether aliens really are here or not, you know what I mean? But I don’t want to just world-build a fantasy that may not be true and believe in it. That would be a terrible mistake.

      And to that end I remind everyone that “alien” is an alien concept to people who live naturally in the cultures the land gave them. That is ultimately why aliens don’t exist. Not people from other planets–they may and probably do. But the way we Westernized peoples categorize and imagine them is the way of making enemies of the unknown.

      1. It makes me think of a mirror… two sides of which make the whole…and whether we may ineeded be the polar opposite of the Visitors.

        It seems like many of us, living within time as we do, strive for a glimpse of transcendence, trying to perceive of a conscious experience of timelessness.

        So if the Visitors are our polar opposite, does that mean they live in a timeless existence but strive for an experience within the time stream?

        Back to us…I suspect we have a connection with the Divine but are not aware of it. So would the mirror analogy suggest the Visitors have lost their connection with the Divine and are excruciatingly aware of it?

        Many years ago, I had a ridiculously vivid dream, where I was in a fun-house, replete with faux paintings and decorations daubed on the claustrophobically dark walls. There was an ominous feeling about the place. I walked into a room, where there lay a mirror. I peered into it and saw the shockingly-close face of a Visitor, staring back at me with what I can only describe as absolute, total and utter, seething anger and contempt, focused on me. I was shocked and repulsed at the time, as I could not conceive of how that may have been an aspect of myself.

        But thinking about it right now, with the polar opposite idea in mind, maybe it was something that could actually be a part of me…but the exact opposite. Perhaps it indicates that my true nature is actually the inverse of that seething anger and contempt…what… maybe calm acceptance and respect?

        Perhaps we need something from one another.
        What do we Humans get…a wake-up call to become Conscious…aware that the Universe, whatever it may be, is alive and watching?
        Then, what do the Visitors get…a desperate relief from timelessness, with an experience of the ‘now’…and a chance to repair their soul-connection, by helping us to open our eyes?

        As ever more questions than answers… But I think I might be learning to be OK with that.

      2. Thank you for the explanations. I do think it’s important to find out whether the visitors come from another planet, if only for our understanding of the way the universe works. Also, that would mean that mankind will eventually be able to travel to the stars, once we figure out the necessary physics (if we haven’t destroyed the Earth before that).

      3. Epic! Of course “thems” can see out the entire big picture- they stand outside of time as observers- all at once.

      4. “And to that end I remind everyone that “alien” is an alien concept to people who live naturally in the cultures the land gave them. That is ultimately why aliens don’t exist. Not people from other planets–they may and probably do. But the way we Westernized peoples categorize and imagine them is the way of making enemies of the unknown.”

        Frankly, I think this is a overly romanticised view of ‘indigenous’ peoples – shades of Rousseu’s ‘noble savage’. Moreover, it is patently and demonstrably false. Tribal warfare existed long before and in isolation of Western influence. I’d say such inter-tribal conflict proves that the tendency to identify something as ‘Other’ or ‘Alien’ is endemic to the human species rather than the fault of the current cultural whipping boy, namely ‘Western Civilization.’

        1. That’s reductionistic. Sure, some nature cultures had conflicts and wars with each other–but not with Earth. Not with nature. Definitely not with outer space.

          I think it’s safe to say nature cultures would never develop weapons that would destroy land, sea, and air just to kill their opponents. None come to mind anyway.

          Also, defining “war” and what that entails depends on who we’re talking about. In Hawaii, for instance, prior to the Tahitians, “war” entailed two warriors fighting to dislocate each other’s limbs. Once the loser was incapacitated, the victor, who was also a skilled doctor in this way, had to put his opponent’s limbs back in place. They could not afford to lose anyone, even if they went to “war.”

          Interestingly, Hawaiians (even post-Tahitian) had no sense of “I” prior to Westernization. And we hear this time and again from various nature cultures. Everything was about the collective, about living in relationship–for better or for worse. I mean, this isn’t “noble savage” territory, it’s a fact. And I am certain that fact has its shadow side as well, but to equate it with the uncaring sheer destruction, pollution, genocide, and killing off of other species we do? Come on. How many Americans alone literally FANTASIZE about xenocide in ufology? Do you think pre-Columbus First Peoples were doing that?

          It’s certainly a longer conversation than this, but if your problem is the Western world as whipping boy, I’m sorry, but it is a fact that we are so divorced from each other and from very land we live on that we’re killing ourselves and every being around us with very little concern outside of the selfishness that occurs when it hits us how we’re personally being affected. And even that revelation tends to get put on an “enemy” doing it to us rather than looking at ourselves.

          1. I wouldn’t say that western culture is “at war with the Earth” any more than any other culture except for the fact that industry and the exploitation of natural resources that arose within in it has not evolved to a point of sustainibility or harmony with the environment. I don’t think that’s the same as being at war with the Earth. Even in law there is a difference between premeditated and negligent homicide (with corresponding differences in punishment) because there’s an understanding that even though the result may be the same the circumstances (and mindset) that lead to it are not.

            Different cultures will have different understandings about what consistutues “war” but for every example like yours there’s another where it certainly means the use of deadly violence against others, hence my point about it not being the exclusive purview of “the West”. You only need one black swan to show that they aren’t all white, as it were. That’s not reductionist – that’s simply showing that the West is not this all-encompassing corruptive force that prevents utopia from manifesting on Earth.

            For example some indigenous cultures certainly have contributed to environmental collapse – the Nazca people, Easter Island, the Maya…even megafauna extinctions in Australia and the ancient Americas. Were none of these ‘nature cultures’? How do we determine what that even is in that case?

            My “problem” with the “Western Civilization as whipping boy” perspective is that it seems to have an undertone of self-hatred among those who take this view – as if to say that the way to a better world can only be accomplished by rejecting what we have created and adopt the ancient culture of others who are “superior” to us. This seems a very common and oft repeated idea in ‘new agey’ circles in particular. To me it seems rather like the mirror image of the colonial period where an oversized sense of superiority led to rejecting (violently) the value in other cultures. Now many reject the value in their own culture. Interestingly, these calls a rarely accompanied by people actually taking the step of refusing to avail themselves of the material benefits of Western culture. People still buy their phones, ride in cars and all manner of things despite the cost to the environment. Even modern indigenous people are not rejecting the benefits of the west – I’d say the contrary is true. I posit that western culture is among the most adaptive and self-correcting that has ever come to light on Earth. Even now we are in the throes of an awakening environmental consciousness in the West. I think we should look more to appreciating the good in it rather than always falling into this mode of thinking where westerners are always ignorant, destructive troglodytes compared to other peoples.

  3. Hi Whitley, it’s Liz from Cognomovement. For your friend who just had the experience I wanted to remind you that we have a way to do a waking regression, not Hipnosis in any way. It’s actually just sorting through the files of the mind through the visual reference While utilizing the bodies sensation for memory. Please pass this on to your friend if she would like to try to recall some of the things that happened in her event. Also wanted to share with you that my daughter and I had a significant time incident at the Burbank airport
    I would love to share it with you sometime. Big love thanks for the show Liz

  4. Jeremy’s back, YAY!!!!!! This was a fantastic show. Aliens? “They” are us. We’re all in this together.

    1. Author

      We are having difficulty with it. We hope to get it up tomorrow. I am so sorry.

  5. We vastly underestimate what WE are!
    We are very complex multidimensional beings!

    I appreciated many things in this discussion. It should be clear that using a term like ‘Aliens’ for extra-terrestrial beings is as inappropriate as calling people from other countries Aliens. They are also not Visitors in that they have been here throughout our history. Logic would tell us someone (or some collective) owns Earth, so of course they have an interest in what is happening to beautiful living Gaia. It seems egotistical to think they Need us, but they may indeed appreciate us and care about us. One must be very careful in not lumping all extraterrestrial beings together and also not lumping in other sentient entities which are not species evolved on other worlds. It should be apparent from the many reports that a major contingency of extra-terrestrial species is interacting with humanity. Viewing the extra-terrestrials through the lens of the religion of philosophical materialism is something they seem to be trying to avoid. Indeed, it is this delusion of philosophical materialism which is driving the destruction of our home world and we need to see ourselves as interconnect beings within the biosphere. The indigenous perspective of entwined life were aptly discussed and is worth farther elucidation.

    I will note that losing one’s ego and momentarily experiencing an expanded paranormal reality is not related to true enlightenment, which involves being fully human, from within the most humble aspects of daily life, the deepest mental comprehension, the most compassionate and loving radiating of feelings, and the most sublime subtle realms of our beings. Ascension and/or ego death is a form of escapism, not sacred and divine union, being whole, or being enlightened.

    1. “The indigenous perspective of entwined life were aptly discussed and is worth farther elucidation.”

      We will be coming back to this from a variety of indigenous peoples’ perspectives.

      1. I disagree about Need, but they have invested a great deal of time and energy, so perhaps they hope for a relationship that can last, which implies that we mature and last.

        Does a parent Need something from a child? Yet does not a parent have the best wishes for the child and rejoice when the child shines? I do not know if they created us or if we are a creative work in progress or if there are specific goals or ambitions, but even if we disappoint them (as I am sure we are with the current affairs of humanity), they will be OK. The first reference to them being desperate that I know about was in Intruders and it was a woman’s dream, not a memory. So many have clung to this because it seems to somehow empower us and feed our ego, but they seem powerful, well established, numerous, and self assured.

        The current (non-local) telepathic web of humanity is such a heartbreaking space, it is inconceivable what a being that hears it all must experience. Perhaps they are embodying Fierce Compassion?

  6. There is an element, not the Essence of this phenomena, that fears us as deeply as our visceral fear towards them (us in another expression?).
    I remember once feeling the terror, that unspeakable fear of annihilation or worse. I remember telling those that filled my mind that I knew how to make them stop. I’d infuse/infect them with love, like a virus and they wouldn’t be able to stop it from infecting their totality, whatever that is. I did and it worked for me in that moment.
    It’s shifted everything that’s come since then and I know this sounds impossibly innocent and naive but in that moment of Insight, I focused on love and let go of my fear. I connected with my heart (I didn’t think about it, I felt it) and sent it into their presence feeling everyone and everything I’ve ever loved and excluding nothing.
    Later I saw something similar in the movie The 5th Element and had a moment of recognition. Nothing so dramatic or earth shattering came from me, a simple wave of love was all I could muster 🙂 except I wondered if we all already know what to do, like a baby in a pool swimming for the first time, if we could just remember (or we’re suddenly tossed in).
    I’m still learning and growing through the looking glass of awareness but the presence tends towards a respectful more supportive connection as if that lower frequency expression just dropped away or I stepped above it. Mostly, I’m never aware of the terrorizers anymore until I see a comment here, still raw with emotion.
    Something about facing my fears and loving it all anyway changed the Quality of the presence and my interactions with it. I was changed. I agree with Sherbet about the mirror.
    I’m so happy you’re back Jeremy!

  7. Glad you’re back Jeremy, although some of us know that you never really went away, you just took a hiatus from Unknown Country. Some of us continued to be on your periphery, as you well know.

    About your new book: I haven’t read it yet, but I cannot help but make a comparison of the cover of ‘ Aliens: the First and Final Disclosure’ with the cover of Vallee’s ‘Passport to Magonia’. It does sound that you may have headed in the direction that many of us have taken…a directionless direction that is more about the nature of reality more than anything else. Aliens? Ha! And it may be about the journey with no destination…

    I look forward to you digging much deeper in the future, which is already here with the past in the ‘now’….Let’s have some fun!

  8. Glad you’re back Jeremy, although some of us know that you never really went away, you just took a hiatus from Unknown Country. Some of us continued to be on your periphery, as you well know.
    About your new book: I haven’t read it yet, but I cannot help but make a comparison of the cover of ‘ Aliens: the First and Final Disclosure’ with the cover of Vallee’s ‘Passport to Magonia’. It does sound that you may have headed in the direction that many of us have taken…a directionless direction that is more about the nature of reality more than anything else. Aliens? Ha! And it may be about the journey with no destination…
    I look forward to you digging much deeper in the future, which is already here with the past in the ‘now’….Let’s have some fun!

  9. I’m afraid I’ll have to serve as the trend breaker here and voice my disappointment in Mr. Vaeni’s return to Unknown Country – something that I had already suspected was inevitable. I would have hoped that we might get an actual new voice to the show. I’ve often found Mr. Vaeni’s approach to come off as pretentious and slightly condescending. Happy for those that are fans, though.

  10. Did that dragon fly happen to turn and look at you while shaking his head no? These fairies are always playing tricks on people – and nice style.

    1. I have a vague memory, or two, of similar reports of a dragonfly man. When I heard Whitley mention it, I immediately recognized his description.

      1. A listener alerted me to this show description in his podcast feed for the latest episode of “My Family Thinks I’m Crazy.” (Typos are theirs.)

        “Amber O’Dell, Host of the podcast Accessing Elysium, joined me for a conversation a about her new podcast, the strange experiences she has had lately some of which included, psychic perception, Sleep Paralysis, Witnessing flying little men, and possibly being hypnotized by these strange Djinn like Entities.”

        1. Thanks for the input. I’m still trying to find the references I fuzzily remember, but at least now I know that there are indeed others having similar sightings.

    2. My first thought when I heard about the little guy in the overcoat flying by was that the faeries must have changed their fashion sense quite a bit. Or maybe it was a really cold day?

  11. You never forget the sightings you’ve witnessed firsthand, is so very true.

  12. The prodigal son returns. Cool!

    Great show, thank you.

    Off topic request, or very on topic maybe: please talk about altered state of consciousness.

    1. Your wish is my command. I think I have a different way to approach this, too. (Different from how I’ve been asking about it, anyway.)

  13. Beautiful, Jeremy (and as always, Whitley). It is lovely to see/hear the evolution of your understanding ~ or lack of understanding as you may prefer to say 🙂

    1. Perhaps we need to talk about how it is we think we understand anything at all given that our knowledge is ever-evolving, therefore how we see how the world REALLY works is also always fluid. And yet we treat our views as if they are fixed. This leads us to believe we are living in a fixed reality. The only thing fixed is our delusion that anything is fixed.

      We lead with our imagination to concretize an anchor in the world to say “I am here” out of fear of death and call that reality. What’s ‘fixed” is broken.

      1. Understanding is a feedback loop – we broaden it incrementally as we gain new information. Depending on the knowledge domain we either refine our understanding of some topic in some linear fashion or completely topple our previous understanding as information comes in. This ‘fluidity’ doesn’t mean that we don’t know anything; nor does it mean that reality doesn’t have some axiomatic / baseline ‘fixed’ properties.

        1. Then how do you account for being able to completely topple our previous understanding as information comes in? (And then go on in society at large as if that never happened–like we always knew it to be this way.)

          1. As to the former, it’s simply a natural consequence of the way human beings learn. It’s also fundamental to the scientific method. You make assumptions and work with them until the data overwhelms the model and it must be scrapped (or not). Your interpretation may be wrong but there is some fundamental reality that is being modelled. Take Epicycles – they worked for centuries up until the model was revised based on overwhelming new information. Certainly it took time to accept for religious reasons but eventually it was. But the motions in the sky were happening regardless of the accuracy of the model. As to the latter point, I’m not sure really who the “we” is that you are referring to that acts that way…certainly that’s not a universal reaction among people when revising their understanding of some topic.

  14. Author

    Interesting conversation. Somewhere there is a meeting point between the sense of the collective and the sense of the individual. The discovery of the individual is a great achievement of the West. But right now we must find a balance between the needs of the species to survive and the need of the individual to be free. Wonder if we’ll manage it?

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