Paul Vidal is not only a close encounter witness, he has sustained and documents some leg injuries similar to those Whitley has had, and has also documented. During the video of the show, you will see these images side by side. Paul will describe his life in close encounter and he and Whitley will compare notes. Listen as they seek to go deeper into their experiences and gain the kind of insight that only two close encounter witnesses, working together to understand more, can achieve. This is one of the all-time great close encounter shows in Dreamland history. Don’t miss this one!
Dreamland Video podcast
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Wow. One of my first memories is of having a “dream” of a solid “black hat man,”
So similar to what Paul described. To hear someone else talk about this is always chilling. 40+ years later, I remember this dream in detail and more clearly than any other I’ve had.
Thank you for this wonderful conversation.
A family friend recounts a story about her brother, when he was young, opening a bedroom door and seeing a male figure in the middle of the room, wearing a dark cape and black wide-brimmed hat (almost like Guy Fawkes, or the ‘V for Ventetta’ character). Apparently he turned to look at him and then just disappeared. There were other unusual things going on in their house at the time…they had a ghost they used to call ‘Charlie’ that would regularly lock the bathroom door, that they would hear moving around inside. Other fairly innocuous things happened too, like moving objects, or school exercise books dissappearing for two weeks (then turning up in odd places, like a plant pot). Charlie certainly disturbed visitors to their house but the resident family were just used to it.
Interesting that this family friend is now a Vicar.
The hat…My niece saw such a being that really frightened her. Back in 2020, I asked her to draw a picture. I’ll post that picture on the message board for viewing. She also got what this being could do, and wrote, “Controls wind”.
The being that entered Paul’s room, asked for permission, with a male voice: “May I come in?” That’s odd. Does Paul remember more about exactly what he was thinking in that moment? It sounds like the being did not await for an answer (or knew the answer). I’ll listen again, but that reminded me of the legends involving vampires—you have to invite them in to your dwelling or room. That means crossing a threshhold. I did a quick search, and this stated it the best:
“Passing over the outer threshold of the building is nothing, but the threshold into your home is different. It is protected because it either gains, or denies, access into your own private world.
Thresholds are the barriers that vampires cannot break without an invite, which keeps the evil out unless you want them to offer you a new way of life.”
I think some of us have an innate curiosity that overrides our fear, and perhaps various beings may pick up on that— and it’s not unlike first responders who run towards the disaster, not away from it.
Compelling conversation…
The unwillingness to pass over a personal threshold, is a common theme with Sasquatch too. There are many accounts of them peering through windows, knocking on doors, banging on walls…and even one account I heard, from the other side of a window glass, beckoning a child to come outside. But if you purposefully chose, or unwittingly find yourself in their domain…beware.
The sentence that said, “Thresholds are the barriers that vampires cannot break without an invite, which keeps the evil out unless you want them to offer you a new way of life”, is worth thinking about. That’s why I was wondering exactly what Paul may have been thinking in that moment. It may not have be a “Come on in!” invitation. It could be as simple as, “I wonder who/what that is?”, going back to human curiosity offering an opening, as well as the unspoken desire for a new way of life…which Paul got.
Certainly curiosity, intention, desire even, can play an important role in keeping a foot in that door once it has been opened a crack. My only concern would be that my foot might get replaced by someone or something elses… making it a difficult one to close, where any experience offered beyond that door might change its tone dramatically, reflecting fear back, where once there was curiosity.
My own minor experience is that once you push open that door a chink, something starts to pull it from the other side, whether you change your mind or not. So, pusher beware, when wishing to wander in that particular hall of mirrors.
Of course, there is a reason we are not granted the gross ability to manifest our own thoughts, as our minds are, generally speaking, so erraticly in flux, that stepping into a world generated from that source, could be disastrous. I suspect for most, it would be one we are manifestly unprepared to bare. But perhaps the opening of a small door into the unknown, is a way of showing us, to a far lesser extent, what that world might contain. So initial good intentions are key…but more than that…sticking to them, come hell or high water, else the negative ripples of the mind might become reflected back, as an ominous tsunami.
I strongly resonate with your most recent comment, SHERBET UFO. I really appreciate your input. It’s difficult for me to encapsulate my entire perspective within a single post, but I just want you to know that both of us seem to be coming from a very similar place.
I’ve spoken at length with members of the John Mack institute about these matters, such as the “imaginary” vs. the “imaginal” realms, and I’m right on board with what you’re saying. Reality is much more complex than many of us realize, and consciousness seems to lay at the core of it all. Mack understood this.
This is a fascinating conversation, and a great initial question about what I was feeling in that moment.
When the voice asked “Can I come in?” strangely enough my thought/feeling in that moment was that this entity was my father. I have NO idea why I thought this, having not lived with my father for many many years at that stage, but that’s what occurred to me. I did not invite it in, not consciously, not that I remember anyway – but it entered. Now I’m wondering if it was projecting this “vibe” of my father onto me as a means of gaining access and crossing that threshold… Interesting.
Once it revealed itself to be a shadow being I obviously realized that it was not my father, and what an absurd notion that was to begin with. Then, as the being crawled onto my bed, strangely enough it said “Hello, brother.” I have no brother – just one sister, and this was a male voice. Then it said “Can I smother you with this pillow, brother?” before beginning to strangle me [I did not see any pillow, for the record]. That’s when I snapped out of it.
Easily one of, if not the most terrifying experience of my life, certainly when it comes to these strange experiences. The whole time I was able to see my surroundings – my bedroom, etc. It was not a dream.
Again, some might call this a classic “sleep paralysis” episode and I wrote it off as such at the time. Nowadays I view explanations like that as buzzwords and platitudes, often used to write off experiencers so we don’t have to consider more disturbing possibilities. That said, I do not claim to know the true nature of these phenomena, but nor do I consider them the result of some type of hallucination or sleep disorder. I’ve read many hypotheses, but for me it remains a mystery.
The mind is quite capable of rendering a familiar environment that is completely indistinguishable from waking reality – sometimes accessed on the edges of sleep. I know that from experience. Some might criticise me for that, suggesting my experience is just of an ultra vivid dream, that I was just not aware enough to discern. But, I can tell you though, it was as real as anything else I have experienced in the physical world. I only became aware that what I was seeing was not ‘normal’ sight, when I started to feel that my eyelids were actually closed. My suggestion is (and it is nothing more than a suggestion) that some of these ultra weird experiences can be within, (for want of a better phrase with fewer Stargate connotations) a ‘Mirror Universe’. But who is to say these entities do not inhabit that world naturally? If they catch us visiting their realm unawares, then they quite clearly have the upper hand, at least temporarily. Whilst in that realm, if you then close your eyes, go to sleep, and wake back up into normal physical reality, who would blame someone for swearing it was ‘real’? But as we have commented here many times before…what is ‘real’ anyway? For a criticism regarding sleep paralysis to stick, that relies on the belief that this phenomenon is related to a dream-state, generated by the unruly, but creative, subconscious. But again, who is to say that is accurate? Is it not possible that dreamscapes, astral dimensions, drug initiated trips to other worlds etc, are not just as much part of the ‘real’ Universe than the one we normally inhabit?
And to add to the mix, the possibility that a boundary between these worlds could at points be so thin, that one could bleed into the other, seemingly naturally, then quite honestly, all bets are off.
What might you call that usual stance of ours, that waking reality is the only level that matters…physical snobbery? Maybe just vanilla closed-mindedness? I am in no way suggesting that of you…but it is the usual human stance.
Anyway, I’m not sure I have a point here, other than to say…that when we swear that an experience was ‘real’, just bear in mind, it might not have happened in quite the environment you thought…but again, that is merely because none of us really knows what real is!
The hat…My niece saw such a being that really frightened her. Back in 2020, I asked her to draw a picture. I’ll post that picture on the message board for viewing. She also got what this being could do, and wrote, “Controls wind”.
COSMICLIBRARIAN…..That statement feels most significant. Varying degrees of wind/breeze. I WONDER?
Please have another Dreamland Festival in Nashville!
Paul, my condolences for the loss of your mother.
Thank you Elene. Death of a loved one is a whole other type of journey itself, and the time following her passing was not without its own instances of anomalous activity. I appreciate your kind words.
Thanks to Whitley and Paul for this very interesting podcast.
I don’t share Whit’s and Paul’s enthusiasm of this as an initiation. Is it really? At 1:17:20 Paul says he prays for it to stop, go away etc. Their reaction is negative, its a common theme. Others have warned these entities may not have good intentions. Is declaration of our free will bad? Why don’t THEY/THEM not like it? I have to say it, we appear to be dealing with abductors, liars and rapists. What other experience in people’s lives has this been a positive thing?
When life gives you lemons, make lemonade. Sometimes in life you can make a positive out of a negative, but that doesn’t make the initial experience any less negative. To me, my encounters have felt either neutral or somewhat positive, and my terror reaction was more involuntary than the result of any form of intimidation [from what I can tell]. Similar to the feeling of being around a wild animal… just a very intelligent, powerful animal. Without knowing exactly what their intents are and why they do what they do [and yes, I know all the theories], I’m reluctant to call the whole thing negative, and while it’s a mixed bag I think it’s had many positive affects on my life overall. Nonetheless I fully respect you and others who have different opinions.
Some argue that this response indicates a form of Stockholm syndrome on the part of experiencers and NHI, which is fine, but I don’t feel it’s that simple in my case. I’ve always been a seeker, and to some extent I wonder if I may have invited these things into my life. More on that in future conversations, perhaps.
So with all that said: Until such a time when/if I have all the data about WHAT is going on and WHY, I choose to reserve judgment about the big picture of these often challenging phenomena. Thank you for your comment.
I often champion the works of Peter Levenda. I mention interviews, with him, frequently on this site. His body of work has defined the real phenomena of “Sinister Forces”. This phenomena has been going on throughout human history so it’s really isn’t possible to define it solely as a human thing. What’s also been going throughout our history is the visitor presence. Whether you call the visitor presence good bad or neutral is up to the observer. We all make our choices. Inviting the vampire in opens up the door to something you’re probably not prepared for. I’m at the stage of not wanting their company. I enjoy the exchange and civil communication is never bad.
Many beings with different intent are described by people. Ghosts, ETs, and other beings are even confused or lumped together. Just the UFO literature lists well over a hundred descriptions of beings seemingly physical. No one answer will fit all phenomenon.
Paul Vidal, keep on keeping on. A young researcher to continue the work of the current and past UFO/UAP investigators. WE NEED YOU. Thank you for such a good interview.
Thank you so much Carolee. We all need each other in this field, and I’m just trying to do my part.
I woke up this morning with a dream of seeing a saucer flying by, feeling excitement and, in waking up, saying: ‘Friends!’. This interview was so wonderful and moving. Thank you both for sharing so openly and courageously. ❤️
Edwin
Thank you all. He is a beautiful soul and I was so privileged to have him on my show.
Very interesting Dreamland. There is a very popular British podcast called ‘Uncanny’, about anomalous paranormal experiences, in which one episode recounts a lady’s experience with a ‘blue man’, whose description (tall, trench coat etc) matches very closely to what Paul recounts. URL is https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m001r0v3
It may only be accessible to UK residents unfortunately, but worth a listen if you can access it.
I am a nurse for old folks and closely assess skin all day. Including alot of different kinds of scratches. That scratch in the photo is simply a hard scratch that almost broke the skin along its length and caused extremely light bleeding in spots.
This person seems very sad and lonely and his experiences add up to he felt very strange alot and buttoned his shirt weird. As an experiencer myself I’m insulted by this person and the fact that you would have him on. You’ll probably delete this post but I just needed to share my extremely valid opinion
Thank you for sharing your opinions. I’ve always been a bit uncomfortable with placing too much emphasis on the markings I received in 2021 – what to me felt like puncture wounds, not scratches, for the record – to the point where I’ve grown a bit tired of sharing the images at all. I can’t say for sure what caused it and am not trying to prove anything in particular there. All that I can say with a high degree of certainty that it was not a scratch, nor a topical phenomenon at all. It was internal, *deep inside the muscle,* and said intramuscular pain lasted for weeks after. I realize the photos alone cannot prove that though, and that’s fine. Again, I ask that you and other listeners not get too caught up in that particular aspect of my interview. There’s much more going on here, and quite a bit which we did not get a chance to discuss this time.
Being an experiencer is not about one strange event, not in my case anyway. It’s about a range of phenomena taking place over years, which are still ongoing and which have affected my life in more ways than I can count. I’m not sure why a simple interview left you feeling “insulted,” nor why you felt the need to insult me in turn, but I hope this message helps ease things in any case.
With any luck, down the line we can do a second talk and get into the meat of the matter – where we can discuss who I am, what I’m all about, and how being an experiencer is much more than having some weird marks. It truly is a journey. Until then, I wish you all the best.
That was super sweet thank you so much for writing that. I take this stuff so serious and thought it was a silly thing to focus on. I’m glad I checked this again. Sorry if I hurt your feelings. I am an experiencer with tons of tiny strange and beautiful things happening all the time in my life as well and I am frustrated when my family doesn’t understand, maybe that’s why I took it so serious, inner skeptic is a hard voice to live with, but I believe it does good too. Sorry again and thanks again
TMINER…LET IT GO!
“Making others happy, through kindness of speech and sincerity of right advice, is a sign of true greatness. To hurt another soul by sarcastic words, looks, or suggestions, is despicable.”
– Paramahansa Yogananda
“Many people excuse their own faults but judge other persons harshly. We should reverse this attitude by excusing others’ shortcomings and by harshly examining our own.”
– Paramahansa Yogananda
We fall and get back up. That’s why we’re here? I thought I was helping somehow I guess. Sorry.i feel it’s vitally important someone discuss chapter 43.it seems to lay out so much of the experience in black and white, and in 1947!
So I suppose you know what an “alien scratch” would look like. Would it come with a tattoo nearby on the skin saying “alien scratch?” How would it be different? The answer is that you have no idea and cannot know. “Extremely valid opinion.” Hardly.
So we can agree that is a normal scratch? This show has devolved from a thought provoking and stimulating forum to you talking about the same two or three stories over and over and interviewing whoever will come on and tell you how wonderful and life changing your work was. God forbid you have someone with something interesting to say on you constantly interrupt them with the same 2 or 3 stories. This is a sad kid. Nothing more. Please hang it up and let the replacement lady or someone else host.
Sarcastic and unnecessarily disparaging commentary like yours says far more about the person wriitng it than it does about the subject matter.
The description of the visitor leaving the room “like a shot” reminded me of my only conscious experience with a visitor that I can remember. I must have been an early teen when one night as I was in a state between wakefulness and sleep, I became aware of some activity occurring at the right side of my head. It felt as if someone’s fingers were working on me with furious and incredible speed. The next thing I know, I hear a loud “pop” in front of my face similar to a party popper. This brought me into full consciousness and I opened my eyes. The room was very dimly lit, but in the space of a little more than a second I saw a short shadow-like being with an over-sized head glide out of the room making three incredibly perfect right-angle turns with incredible speed. I was awake when I saw the being and was so scared that I threw the covers over my head (sleeping with the sheet partially covering my head is a habit which I have to this day). I saw no details of the being other than what I have described. It did seem to be almost two-dimensional, like a silhouette.
We can also agree that you’re trolling me by disparaging my abilities as an interviewer because I have dared to disagree with you. Perhaps the problem here is not my interviewing technique, but somebody else’s ego.
I am just sharing my sincere feelings as a listener. I have bought most of your books and think you have an important message. And this show has not been producing anything of note. I have gotten more and more sad and frustrated as a listener. Sorry for being harsh. You hurt my feelings dismissing my very valid critique of the scratch. This site shouts down any dissenting opinions in a very troubling way
I would urge you to please read chapter 43 of “autobiography of a yogi” by paramahansa yogananda. I feel strongly I was supposed to tell you about it. It’s important
I don’t see that Yukteswar’s teaching about the astral plane is relevant to this discussion. I had to pick up my copy of AOAY to recall that particular chapter. Did you just invent the comment out of whole cloth or what?
A crazy series of coincidences over 20 years is why I say it. Look closer. It’s published in 1947, is an account of a soul incarnating exactly like the little man at the end of your bed. He even smells him to make sure he’s real just like you did. Then Sri yuktesqar goes on to talk about the planet he has moved on to, the beings there he describes as basically Grey’s (with a third eye) who travel by light vehicles
It’s simply that your position is poorly thought out. Without realizing it, you assert that your opinion is guided by some unmentioned expertise that enables you to tell the difference between an “alien scratch” as you call it, and an ordinary scratch. But you offer no source other than your opinion. That isn’t enough. If you can prove the origin of the scratch, or that is CANNOT have been caused in the way the guest recalls, then provide that proof. This isn’t intended to disparage you, but frankly, when we are dealing with a situation as strange as contact, opinions based on common knowledge are obviously of limited value, if any.
Just saying it’s not proof of anything sir
Not strange or anomalous. I feel like it was presented as this crazy thing
An injury doesn’t have to be “anomalous” to be of unknown origin. Again, it’s the same fuzzy thinking that inspired your original objection.
I’m a fuzzy guy.it does not seem at all noteworthy is my point.he pointed out the pinpoint blood dots as strange and unusual. And I’m saying I’ve seen that alot .
Sri yukteswar describes the cosmos beautifully.
One of my favorite passages he says something like the visible world is proportionatly to the cosmos like the basket is to a hot air balloon.
The chapter has nothing to do with the scratch, but I think it has alot to do with your work
Oh…it looks like that spat has fizzled out. I was preparing popcorn and everything.
I wrote a very eloquent summation of my issues but he deleted it
Mr. Strieber doesn’t run the boards, I do, and you violated one of our policies, and no, I’m not going to argue with you about what it was. If you violate a policy again, you can expect to be banned from the site permanently. If you don’t know what those policies are, read the rules which are linked at the bottom of the homepage, among other places.
And now for something completely different…🙂
I find it interesting that the entity did not want Paul to pray. Does anyone know if prayer reliably stops unwanted experiences?
This is a thing. Tom Delonge mentioned it recently in an interview.
I also found that aspect interesting. To this day I’m unsure whether it was asking me not to pray, or not to be afraid, or what exactly is was saying not to do. I’m reluctant to ascribe any religious significance to the event personally, but that may be partially due to my secular upbringing. My gut feeling is that my overall demeanor – my fear, my praying, my overall “vibe” was somehow disturbing the entity, or not allowing it to approach me to do whatever it was doing. The fact that it asked “May I send/set you down?” – emphasis on the words “May I” – seems to indicate asking of consent on its part, which is intriguing as well.
It almost felt like I had accidentally “popped into” its world or realm, that it was surprised to see me, and that my terror response was further exacerbating the issue. Its intent, beyond whatever it did when it approached me, seemed to be mostly about sending me back to where I came from. That, and possibly asserting its presence as another way to say “Yes, this is real and now you can stop doubting it.” That’s what I took from the experience anyway.
Paul, I remember when I first began seeing orbs almost 20 years ago. I was at work, and while just doing my job, I spied some orbs in my office. As soon as I saw them, they skedaddled. My impression was, “She sees us!”. Soon after, they began appearing and would hang around, and understood that I was aware of them. The orbs that I saw were fairly small. They soon showed up in photos that were taken of me, as well as photos I took of loved ones. Then one evening, I was watching TV while my husband and son were upstairs and I got that weird felling of being watched. I looked over into kitchen and there was an orb as big as a basketball hanging over the kitchen table! While it sat there, I just mentally let it know that I could see it, and was cool with it being there. Soon thereafter, it slowly drifted over near the back door and passed through the wall and outdoors.
People here know of some of my strange experiences, but I have to say that I’ve never had any fear over them, but more like excitement and curiosity…And my feeling is that these other ‘realms’ are as much a part of our realm as we are of theirs. (That includes time slips). For some of us, these ‘boundaries’ may be falling away. These are just my thoughts and ideas on it, because I can’t say beyond a reasonable doubt what’s really going on.
My apprehension towards the visitors has been growing for a while. I listened to the TTSA podcast episode 12 which frankly gave definition for those feelings. It’s with Jim Semivan and Tom DeLonge. I won’t parrot what they say. I would encourage anyone interested to listen for themselves as to why prayer seems to be pepper spray to them.
Perhaps there is a level of reality where thoughts, prayers, emotions and intentions are just as tangible as physical objects might be here…like being able to manifest a ‘brick wall’ within a lucid dream environment. If the Visitors are able to naturally inhabit those dreamlike realities, and use them as a gateway to our physical reality, then it stands to reason that if someone were able to manifest thoughtforms within that reality, that it could have a significantly ‘real’ effect.
Perhaps, interesting thoughts. Whatever that prayer/declaration of free will barrier is, they persist. There seems to be desire for us, maybe even jealously .
Stan, in your recent comment regarding jealousy, I have heard a few suggestions as to what the source of that might be. Any, all, or indeed none of the following may be true, so take with a resonably large ‘pinch of salt’.
1. They predominantly live in a state outside time and have therefore lost the inate ability to experience the new…and with it, the ability to change.
2. They lack the natural ability to have a soul attached to their physical body.
3. They have lost the ability to perceive the depth of emotions we do.
4. They work as a collective and cannot function properly (consciously speaking) outside that group connection. We on the other hand are self-contained beings, sovereign entities if you like (mind / body / spirit) and are perceived as being closer to the divine because of it.
I think this is a very interesting comment and I believe that it’s possible that all of the above could be in one way or another true. One of my overall impressions is that they want something here from us that we don’t know we have, and they don’t want us to know we have it. if you think about the way the secrecy works, and the abductions, and the apparent hybridization attempts, it all fits. What we generally are anesthetized to is our soul. I think that’s exactly what they want.
Just one final thought about prayer/meditation: I remember years ago when Whitley had a meditation where he put out there, “Whoever can help me the most, please help me now.” I did the meditation, but I wasn’t comfortable with it entirely. So, I changed the thought to, “Whoever needs it the most, how may I help you?” The meditation took on a whole other meaning and ‘lightness’ for me.
“Do unto others as you would have them do unto you” is more than a Christian idea. It’s pretty basic, and does not require that you even like someone , or who or what they are. It’s an act of love, and can even apply to those that we perceive as different… or our enemies. AND…it is really difficult to do, and we humans are awful at practicing it on a day to day basis, and it does not mean that we allow others to walk all over us. By the way, I’m not Christian, but I do feel there are certain universal truths.
I’m not quite sure what, but somewhere in all I’ve just said may be a more novel approach to what the beings may want from us that our fear prevents us from giving them. We can’t give them souls, but buried within us MAY be the secrets on to how to develop and grow their own souls. without stealing them from other beings. It could be in our DNA, going back thousands of generations when we transitioned into homo sapiens.
It’s all very complex, no?
I am coming to believe that what they want from us is simply obedience… and it’s another lie that when they say they care about free will. What they want are human slaves… TMOTK talked about this, and how slavery still exists, here on Earth, and that human souls have been harvested for use. Many experiencers have seen human automatons in their employ. They use fear and secrecy to control us, not just experiencers, but everyone. Experiencers face scorn, ridicule, judgement, rejection and condemnation… just what they want , to keep everyone in their place. They may be our old Gods, with the power to cure our cancer and heal climate change; they control our governments with fear and manipulate our financial institutions and I think they probably do.
As humans, what we have is thought… and that is off the scale powerful, more powerful than them, and they don’t want us to know it, because if we actually learned to exercise that power in a positive way, we would finally rule them, and expand our awareness to the next evolutionary level. I’m beginning to believe that this may be our destiny. We may not traverse the stars or the universe until we learn to ‘inhabit’ craft in a sentient way… of our own free will.
Our souls and core stars are made of light… and what is light? Light is made of photons… what is faster than light? Could it be thought? What is invocation, prayer or meditation but directed thought or ‘not-thought’?
Do we make the world? When we think negative thoughts, do we create the bad crap that goes on here? All the inequality, pain, suffering, war? How many random acts of kindness do we need before the balance tips and each of our consciousness’ gains this full expansion of awareness?
We have been slaves to our own greed for power, money, status and control… and so are they. What if humankind gave all that up and, well, I don’t know… what Would happen???
I think I’d like to try!
There is another part to this chain of ideas that I can’t quite articulate, but I’m working on it. It has to do with how time works, and tonglen…