Whitley refers to this week’s guest, Prince Stash Klossowski de Rola, as one of the most remarkable people in the world–but also essentially unknown outside of a rarefied group of cognoscenti and a circle of friends. Stash is one of the world’s leading experts on alchemy and a deeply informed student of Gnosticism, and both subjects are covered in this interview. Whitley and Stash have been friends for many years, and the warmth and insight of that friendship is on display in every moment of this enlightening discussion. Stash talks about such things as the spiritualizaton of matter and the “mattering” of spirit, both profoundly informed by his  knowledge of alchemy.

But don’t expect a discussion of alembics and secret formulas and turning base metal into gold. This is about esoteric alchemy as it was and is practiced in its secret truth. Stash also talks about his long history in music, his friendships with people like Mick Jagger and many others, and the true nature of tantra and the tantric quest.

Only on Dreamland. Only from Whitley.

Enjoy this profound journey into a virtually unknown world, and meet a man who almost never emerges into the public eye.

To learn more about Stash and his life, visit him on FaceBook.

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  1. Unbelievably informative and enlightening. There are statements in this interview which an open mind will never forget.

  2. Great Interview! Stash is the real deal. (And so is Whitley).

    A Happy Subsciber

  3. One more thing: I was so glad that Stash discussed one of the esoteric texts that I rarely hear mentioned. ‘The Emerald Tablets’. It’s not a huge read, but is a very dense and important one that is worth re-visiting often because the insights take a while to begin to gel in one’s consciousness. I will be listening to this interview again and again as well.

    Many thanks for this interview!

    1. Is there a version or author you would recommend for The Emerald Tablets?

      Terry in Austin

      1. This is going to sound a bit strange, since, like the Bible there are different translations, versions, etc. but mine is more on a personal level.

        Crazy as it sounds, I was given my moniker, ‘Cosmic Librarian’ several years ago…by Thoth ( Djehuti) and Seshat. Yeah, I know. Woo-woo stuff that I don’t usually tell anyone, but there it is. There is a lot more to it documented in my journal back then that even makes me continue to question all of it and where it came from. I read the journal occasionally, and it blows my mind!

        The version of the Emerald Tablets that I have is by Doreal. Thoth/Seshat, Hermes Trismegistus—are the same entity. In 2004 my teacher was a woman that I have never met, but we talked and corresponded over a few years, had lots of ‘experiences’, and she is pretty well-known in New York…and I didn’t always agree with her, but she blew the gates open. I wouldn’t be surprised if Stash knows who she is.

        1. I like the name “Cosmic Librarian”. Funny story, all my life since maybe 2 years of age, I’ve dreamed of what I call the “Cosmic Library”. It’s a library, but has all the information in the universe in it. Often it has a convenience store too, for some odd reason.

          1. Yeah, I’ve been there, but unable to buy a ‘Slurpee’ while perusing information. Bummer…🙂

            I was shown the ‘Cosmic Library’ (wow!) when I was given my name, and told it would be there whenever I needed it.


        2. That’s the copy I have, too. Wonderful wisdom.

          From where I’m sitting, Cosmic Librarian is a great name. Personally, I delight in how it came to you. Thank you for sharing.

          On a side note, I find it interesting how the UFO/UAP/ET community, which has carried the stigma of ridicule for so many years from the world at large, turns around and puts the same stigma on the word “woo”.

          If studying consciousness is considered “woo”… if opening oneself up to cosmic consciousness and going on a journey of rediscovering who you Truly are on a grander scale beyond the human ego-intellect’s puny vision is considered “woo” … if studying ancient texts to discern the wisdom contained therein is “woo”… then I stand tall in my Light and proudly wear the title, you know?

          Perhaps you will join me in taking the stigma off the word “woo” by using it freely and proudly, too?

          There is the part of us that I call the Divine Soul that is consciously aware of our connection to everything that ever was, is and knows all the potentiality of what will be. That cosmic library (or Akashic Records) is always right there at our fingertips. The challenge is asking the right question that creates the container for the answer to rise up to your human awareness. The greater challenge, however, is letting go of human judgements that keep us living as bonsai tree versions of our glorious Selves.

          So. May we ALL “woo” on… slurpees in hand or not.

  4. Whitley, You said recently that you have a new recording app. I honestly do not think it is working at all. We can hear the guest but not you. Sometimes we hear squeaks instead of your voice, other times your voice is very low. This is discomforting. I hope you can consider going back to your old software.

    1. Author

      What is driving us nuts is that the audio files are perfect until they are posted–only then does my audio deteriorate!

      I just cannot imagine what is going on. We have been thinking about changing our streaming platform, but the problem is present not only on the audio files that are hosted there, but also on the video files on YouTube, so it’s not that.

  5. This man could make me think I have spent my entire life sitting in a corner twiddling my thumbs. He has had such a breath of experience, and a depth of self-confidence to explore in ways that many of us just dream about through books or videos. I literally spent my 30 year working life in a cubicle! Your guest would find such surrender to the status quo inexplicable. On the bright side, I was able to retire for good at 52 and since then I have been an explorer of the mind. Thank you for sharing his story.

    1. I personally understand how you feel, but we all have our own path, contributions, experiences and lessons for a reason. Your posts always strike me as being very wise. What you bring to the world as your unique fingerprint is of value that you may never know.

  6. What I learned from Stash’s interview is that it is not who you are but Who you are.

    Terry in Austin

  7. Even though i was born in 1976, i find many parallels in my life with Stash. As a teenager in the 1990s i dressed just like he did with shoulder length hair, and my favorite music was 60s/hippy music. My favorite musical was HAIR… went to Donovan and Pink Floyd concerts in the mid 1990s… i experimented with pot and stronger hallucinogens and read Carlos Casteneda, Whitley Strieber and Mary Summer Rain books… as a child i had a dinner in the castle of an Italian prince… i spent time in India… served at the Baha’i “Lotus Temple” in New Delhi and visited the Buddhist monasteries in Ladakh and Sikkim. Read about/Listened to Indian Gurus like Sri Satya Sai Baba and more recently, Sadh Guru. Grew up with an interest in esoterics. Although since 1998 my focus has been on the teachings of Bahá’u’lláh… would definitely like to read Stash’s books. My life experience pales compared to his though, of course… What was the name of the book he recommended on Tantra? I hope he finishes and publishes his autobiography! His life has been so interesting!

  8. Excellent interview with two stimulating intellects. The audio interference is so distracting though. It sounds like there is a group, not just two, participating.

  9. Amazing interview: very synchronistic for me. ‘As above, so below’ and the perfect template which underlies form brings to mind Morphic Resonance which physicists are understanding as everything resting on a fundamental geometry (Sacred geometry) and then even deeper that consciousness is the ultimate reality. All this is worthy of a series to even begin to unravel.

  10. One of the best Dreamlands ever. Such a genuine and informative conversation between individuals who have so much life experience to share. Our world needs more of this…

  11. If you are serious, may I suggest a used bookseller. I see that some antiquarian dealers in Germany have used original hardcover copies of Alchemy: The Secret Art: Art and Imagination available. Yes, they are in German. But. You can also get a copy of the softcover book in your native language. The two combined are cheaper than one copy of the original hardcover at a jacked up price. I suggest this because Prince Stash Klossowski de Rola says the images are of supreme importance and the ones in the hardcover are best.
    As for which version of The Emerald Tablet, I vote for The Emerald Tablet Of Hermes, Hermes Trismegistus.
    For your decision making edification may I submit this guide by Anyextee.

  12. Wasn’t planning to listen since I thought it would be some weirdo selling his book. How grateful I am that I did tune in. I listened on a long drive across London and then again when I got home. WOW.

  13. I listened to the first half the other night…then had the single weirdest dream I have ever had… about a small Irish guy, that I spent some time with, who had the ability to create complex objects in the dream space, that could be used to generate an effect in the ‘real’ world. These effects would seem paranormal and potentially quite disturbing to anyone experiencing them. Some of these objects (which I can scarcely begin to describe) had to be cultivated in a dream garden before they were ready to be used.

    It obviously triggered something in me…I wonder what the second half will bring?!

    1. That guy was me, just to let you know. 😉
      I had a hard time finding this place to post this comment. Quantum reality is simple, thought is all and all is thought. I’ve always wanted to bring things from dreams into reality, but it took a scientific understanding of the Teachings of Christ and the true secrets of Alchemy which He revealed to me for me to gain this ability through a secret revealed to me in a dream, which I won’t discuss. The Philosopher’s Stone is real, it smells like fresh baked bread in it’s White stage, which is the White Stone of Revelation 2:17. It is the Clean White Robes, the Incorruptible Flesh we shall wear in the Kingdom to come. “Spiritual alchemy” is a new age delusion. Real alchemy uses real substances and real equipment to obtain a real effect. After all, Faith is the SUBSTANCE of things hoped for, the EVIDENCE of the unseen. What substance is not real and physical? What evidence cannot be shown and proven? When you dream of a sunny day, where does that sunlight come from?
      Read the Gospel of Thomas, and you will find out.
      Pardon my late and unexpected reply, only God is omniscient and omnipresent. I’m a bit…laggy and distracted.

    2. Oh, I almost forgot to ask. Was the guy cultivating white or red crystalline trees? Were there any “super-magnetic” machines, or any light-based machines?
      You’ve got me curious now. I’m half crazy after all these years. Were mechanical things growing out of the ground? Did they look anything like Minecraft mod machines? Hehe….just curious. Were things “grown” by sound or music aimed at them?
      Hehehe….you should see the paper I wrote (to myself, to keep my sanity) on time travel.

  14. If Stash returns I hope he will share more about his father, the painter Balthus. One of the great talents of the 20th century whose work is controversial because of his depiction of children in highly sexualized situations. Highly unusual for his time. Would love to hear his thoughts on the subject.

  15. In Him and Through Him and To Him are All Things.
    Let the curious seeker seek thusly:





    I can link many, but that site is good. For some reason, they removed some of the best books, those from pre-16th century. Alas, no one will notice. I have them all downloaded from decades ago.
    A book called The Hermetic Museum contains many legitimate works useful to the curious seeker.

    The Philosopher’s Stone is the Urim when White, and Thummim when Red. It is the White Stone of Revelation 2:17, the Clean White Robes and Incorruptible Flesh. It is a volatile salt which attracts and contains the Universal Life, and no words can truly express its greatness. It is that Spirit who Brooded over the Waters in the Beginning, and He who spoke to Moses in the Bush that Burned with Fire and yet was not consumed. It is the Ruach, the Breath of God, and the Secret of Secrets. All the pagan pantheons (with the possible exception of Hindu and a few others) were created to hide this knowledge, the “gods” and their exploits representing substances and processes, and various stages of the Work. The common people faithfully preserved their “gods” and their exploits, and few among the few ever understood the hidden meaning. Christ revealed it in every one of His parables. 1 Corinthians 2 fully concerns Alchemy, as does most of Genesis. I can go on, there are endless words and none are sufficient to declare the glory of what God has made of and through and to Himself. The Stone is the Source of the Three Kingdoms of Nature, and of the Four Elements. By the Four Qualities (Hot, Cold, Moist, Dry) it is changed and modified into various forms. Its base matter (called the House of the Ram, or the Ancient Grey Wolf) is subjected to the influence of the Sun and Moon (those of Alchemy, not the literal), and brought to a state of decay and putrefaction (though it is neither animal nor vegetable, nor fungus, but a mineral). This putrefaction or Black stage is called Saturn, or alchemical Lead, as each stage has an associated metal and planet. The putrefaction must fully penetrate and consume the matter, then having run its course the blackness dries of itself (as you’ve seen with dog turds) and whitens, first by throwing off a ring of white crystals around its edges. This arises like a small bush, even a bush full of Fire. In the black stage it smells first like licorice or fennel seed, or burnt wine, but later it progresses to a smell like a rotten corpse. This is the Turba Magna, the Great Curse which God laid upon the Earth for Man’s Sake. Without it, there would be no Generation in Nature, and the Earth would become Void and Empty as it was in the Beginning. Many words, my friends. None are sufficient for knowledge more worthy to be known to angels than to men. Be that as it may, I wish you well, and advise you not to poison yourself in the attempt, and never to mess with the literal metals except gold and silver and only once you’ve achieved the Black stage by which you can burn gold to ashes as Moses did. Merry Christmas to you all, and if you reply, be aware that I may not be able to receive it or to reply to it.

  16. “Esoteric Alchemy” is what people call Alchemy who have no clue about Alchemy but enjoy making things up to suit their imagination. Tantrism is for pedophiles and Ep$tain groupies.
    Real alchemy is hard to learn if taught, and impossible to learn if not taught (either by an Adept or by God, or best yet an Adept taught by God), even once you know the right materials and process, you’re still stuck with sitting several months to a year or more day and night at all times in front of your athanor (or in modern times, your hotplate), waiting as though you had planted a seed and awaited the tree and eventually the fruit. This is why science has not found it, they are neither spiritually minded, nor patient enough to seek it properly, though it is in plain sight to all of them.
    God is not mocked, and uses the simple things of the world to confound the worldly wise. Real alchemy can raise the dead. Can esoteric alchemy do this?

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