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What constitutes physical evidence of high strangeness phenomena? In this solo episode, host Jeremy Vaeni makes the case against equating physical evidence in ufology with aliens,  inter-dimensional beings, or even human time travelers, and calls for a new approach to deriving meaning from it. Then, he gives us an example of what such an approach looks like.

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  1. hey Jeremy,
    i heard you say

    hey Jeremy,
    i heard you say Morgelens(sp)..or what. It was documented in the 1800s like hairsized worms that cluster. If you spread oil on them, they stretch out to breath. You shave them. I read about this ages ago. They supposedly move in and out of the skin.
    ok… back to listening.

    Ok, so Jeremy is talking about this so called “encounter.” Im going to be a bit base(because lowest common denominator)
    I apologize in advance for my … well.
    Ok, so, I dont know of that many guys who have a perfectly good woman(from the description yeah) sitting on them….
    AND having an erection (i dodged that all the way around) for an extended amount of time….is gonna complain or even physically attack. I did mention lowest common denominator didnt i?
    Yatta yatta. But Jeremy brings up THE point that for me smacks of mind control. felt like a cat jumping onto the bed and it was a full scale femme. O…K. i would venture the guess the encounter was real, not sure if ALL the story was told, but I’d believe that the “asian/phillipino” type was engaging in the mind control. I have heard of different ways to extract DNA
    and recall something about assembled “non-human parts.” I cannot say this is true with any certainty because i really havent seen it. Creeeee peeeee. I know. *points the accusitory finger You guys are out there thinking it. I just happened to type it.
    Still listening.


  2. Morgellons Disease: I
    Morgellons Disease: I remember when the CDC began investigating ‘Morgellons’ back in 2008, and I was actually surprised at the time that they took it seriously enough to discuss it at all. While you will not find anything else about it on the CDC website now, I did find the archived press release from 2008 and it can be found here:

    Whatever conclusions the CDC may have reached, I could not find them anywhere on the CDC site, however I found this abstract fairly quickly dated 2016. While it acknowledges that CDC could not find that that Morgellons was caused by a pathogen, this study definitely found that there is a connection that shows an association with a tick borne infection, Borrelia burgdorferi (Lyme disease). I won’t bore ya’ll with all the details, but you can read them here, if you’re interested:

    ‘Morgellons’ can be a real disease, but from what I read in this study, diagnosis is complicated by the fact that Borrelia burgdorferi has also been linked to mental illness. Let that soak in for a minute…

    As to finding a new approach to physical evidence, and to get a rough idea of what Jeremy is saying, look no further than a viewing of the movie ‘Contact’ with Jodie Foster. Although a different take than Carl Sagan’s book of ‘Contact’, I think the movie actually does of better job of demonstrating the problems of physical evidence (no spoilers here), especially since we may not even be far enough long with technology, or intellectually, to understand the physical evidence and what it means when we first find it ( The mystery of Morgellons is a case in point). Indeed, we may not be ready for the ‘nuts and bolts’ evidence at all. While ‘faith’ is also a theme in ‘Contact’, both on a spiritual and scientific level, the movie demonstrates how highly connected they both can be.

    We simply do not know what we don’t know.

  3. Nice job, Jeremy. Bringing
    Nice job, Jeremy. Bringing out the various ways we approach things – well done. It isn’t even just on “the unknown” that we use such ways to get to a “place” which meets either our need(s) or desires.

    Learning to think about one’s own thinking… that’s a treat and a challenge. Our needs, wants, desires… so influence our steps and may overrule objectivity. The sad part is, we don’t even realize that we are doing it.
    Sooo… well done taking us through this. You have raised this before.

    What does one have to gain by a certain “solution” to his/her experience? This is a strong reason for bias in the way we “figure out” what might have happened and what it means.

    Ahhh… being human. Such a wondrous life. Llearning… self and others and even more… well worth the effort… but not necessarily leading in a way or to a internal place we anticipate. Asking the questions and not settling for quick answers (relative term – “quick”) is not always easy or comfortable. Wanting to be heard and believed is not always going to happen when story is shared.

    Learning to live in a place of no definite answer, lots of questions, and waiting, and accepting one may never have answer-(that is all “NOT KNOWING”) is a process. Learning to be comfortable with not knowing…. a real gift… that doesn’t mean one doesn’t still “work to figure it out… if possible.” Just accepting one may not know… and that’s okay.

  4. One more posting for
    One more posting for this…..
    Its just me in a different form….blah blah blah.
    heres the question: why does it seem “tailor made” for the individual?
    Row row row your boat,
    gently down the stream…..,
    merrily merrily merrily ,

    dreams are “tailor made” because (opinion coming) the sub conscious mind talking to the conscious mind in pictures.
    A picture is worth a thousand words.
    WHAT IF …. these are tailor made dreams manifested? Someone speaking to us thru a pipeline used by the “spirit side” of the human being. A conduit for pictures… deja vooooooo prophetic dreams. well, if it works for that, lets try a little of this. The all-encompassing Consciousness that we are connected to.
    “This is truly dread, mon.” Is it?

  5. This week’s monologue reminds
    This week’s monologue reminds me very much of the 1998 movie ‘Sphere’…a Rotten Tomatoes 12% but the story is where the parallel lies, not the quality!…

    Spoiler alert, if you could be bothered to watch it!…They start out finding something that they think has its origins in the far reaches of space, or perhaps another universe (from the other side of a black hole) but they end up realising it has the power to manifest dreams into reality. An unbridled subconscious is not easily understood…or tamed.

  6. Hi HG…I agree…that is
    Hi HG…I agree…that is what I was trying to say, in a round about way, with the ‘Sphere’ reference 🙂 …dreams manifested into reality from the subconscious, which would include archetypal symbols and imagery from the collective unconscious.

  7. I kind of think that the
    I kind of think that the bizarre and contradictory way in which this phenomenon presents itself and interacts with us is deliberate, and working as intended. Our naturally inquisitive minds work feverishly to understand and classify, to put things in neat little boxes, because it’s comforting and reassuring to us. But the phenomenon both invites and defies this part of our nature, presenting us with deliberately designed paradoxes we can’t help but fruitlessly chew on. You know those zen koans, like “what is the sound of one hand clapping?” With the idea being that pondering an unanswerable question may provide some deeper insight?

    With the visitors, it frequently seems like the medium is the message. And in presenting themselves paradoxically, they are like a living zen koan. What are they, where do they come from? The beings we see are clearly tied to us in some way. Either they are literally related to us, as in our descendants, ancestors or creators, or, if they are actual aliens, those gray bodies were designed to interact with us. Convergent evolution cannot even begin to explain how closely they resemble us.

    And they don’t have to be aliens for their bodies to be designed for our benefit. So, if the medium is the message, what are we to interpret from the physical appearance of the beings we see? What is the message?

    Would knowing the answers to these questions diminish the experience somehow? Ruin it?

  8. Sorry, my story got posted

    Sorry, my story got posted before I was through. Anyway, the name of her condition was Morgellons, it turned out. I stayed with her and her family treating her for over a week. As always I find the story(ies) accompanying any given condition as important as the symptoms. It was complicated. She was able to care for her condition and eventually recovered but it took years to work thru the story & the Morgellons.

    And BTW, those white, hair-like worms burned like crazy. They actually felt more like an electrical type of stinging like tropical red ants (I’ve been stung by them before). My heart goes out to those who have this condition that is actually quite frightening on many levels and people need real help that is not forthcoming by any allopathic medical institution, as far as I know. There is a doctor whose contact info I was given that she had contacted prior to my working with her, who is a specialist. I’m including her email here, in case anyone needs it.

  9. Well, the article I wrote
    Well, the article I wrote looks like it disappeared, after being posted by accident–twice. Anyway, Jeremy, I hope it’s OK to post a link like I did above. Dr. Hildegarde Staninger’s work is impressive to say the least. The 1 cell one light website will reveal her background in environmental toxicology & Morgellons and much, much more. I highly recommend anyone facing the unfortunate condition of environmental toxicity and/or Morgellon’s to begin by contacting Dr. Hildegarde’s office.

    In 2009 I was able to pull out the highly elusive Morgellons critters from a patient’s scalp and body, so she did not have to be committed into a mental institution for her very painful and “mysterious” condition no one could prove was “real”. I pulled them out with a salve I make for such circumstances.

  10. Good show. Part of it
    Good show. Part of it reminded me of the story of what it would be like for a 2 dimensional world if a 3 dimensional world began to interact with it. The whole flatlander thing. I now that’s not exactly the point you were making but it was reminiscent. And how you said the interaction itself is trying to make sense.

    But if we were 2d flatlanders, and 3d people were interacting with us, I would imagine our minds would struggle to perceive and make sense of what was happening. Our minds might fill in some blanks. But I realize that the 3d “people” might not even be anything that we can comprehend. And not really people at all, I don’t know.

    The idea that it could be the earth itself interacting with us is great. And Jeff’s confetti alien head thing seems so familiar.

    1. Andy,
      …And in the news this


      …And in the news this week, the unique way that the praying mantis sees the world is highly unusual, especially in the insect world. They see in 3-D, but in a different way than we do. Why do I bring this up? You mentioned 2d flatlanders interaction with 3D people…And many experiencers report interactions with beings that resemble the praying mantis. The depth perception of the praying mantis only focuses on things that are changing and moving, whereas humans’ 3D focus is more on things that are NOT moving. We forget that even animals native to this planet are not seeing or perceiving things as we do.

      Which brings me to my own interactions with the little critters: If you hold one on your finger, they really do notice you, and watch you. And one more thing that I found out is that the praying mantis not only attacks other insects, they have been known to bring down hummingbirds, a very FAST moving animal.

      So…the world of nature is full of surprises, including the unknown, and the idea that our interactions with high strangeness may be the Earth interacting with us is sound. While most of us here at UnknownCountry have had strange experiences, it would be cool to find out differences in types of experiences based on things like our own personal connections to nature and how we perceive them.

    2. Andy1111, thank you. You’ve
      Andy1111, thank you. You’ve just helped me to articulate something that I’ve been struggling with for several years, although it now seems the answer was in front of me the whole time. I’d written a novel called “New People of the Flat Earth” which is about contact from the inside out, and had always known that this was what the title needed to be. But I was at a loss to explain to myself, or anyone else, exactly why that was the case, thinking, the tension between progress & regress, new/old, etc. Of course, the intersection of a three-dimensional reality with a two-dimensional point of view is exactly it! Dammit! It’s not like this is new information for me – I just couldn’t see my way around it until now. So, thanks!

    3. I bought that book, but never
      I bought that book, but never got around to reading it. Guess I should dust it off…

      I think people have a hard time imagining what may be the gulf between us and the visitors, and just default to imagining it in terms of better technology or more brainpower, or a more complete understanding of physics. But the 2D person meeting a 3D person analogy seems better. Ever look at those diagrams of 4-dimensional solids, like the hypercube? You look at the hypercube, and you can kind of understand it based on the 2D drawing you are looking at, but you don’t REALLY understand it. Not in a visceral sense.

  11. Mister Acidic, brilliant
    Mister Acidic, brilliant post.

    1. Thanks!

  12. Jeremy,
    These shows of late


    These shows of late seem less like examinations of the phenomena. And more like a battle within yourself. That you just can’t accept this stuff. (Whatever it is.) So you devise one strategy after another to reduce it to meaninglessness.

    But, ultimately, I don’t think that helps you.

  13. Jeremy, I wonder if you’ve
    Jeremy, I wonder if you’ve ever watched any of the Emery Smith interviews with David Wilcock on Gaia TV? He describes some of his experiences having worked at Kirtland Air Force Base in a “wet room” on all manner of fascinating tissues & body parts from creatures of various places. He is extremely credible & his experiences & professional opinions about how he would go about scientifically researching questionable evidence is probably a protocol even you might agree with.

    According to many “insiders” turned whistleblowers, our current technology that we think is so clearly advanced and “High Tech” is considered Dark Ages, compared to what is available and in use by our Shadow Government laboratories, operating rooms, military, space programs, etc. The public at large is so in the dark about technology that’s been in use for 70 years now–openly, it’s really pathetic. We’re not connecting the dots.

    I work with “high strangeness” stuff daily–in medicine. That gives me a working field of information to test out what I do, because I can obtain feedback immediately through lab tests, medical imaging, etc. When I work in hospitals I go there knowing the results I get will NOT be met with kind, happy faces and actions from other medical personnel. Results that show up cause concern, anger, fear and often–rage. Why? Because in order for structural or biological change to occur, our current Dark Ages “laws of physics” need to change. And humans are able to do prcisely that, when you know how with your mind & heart! Until we begin changing our thinking and learn how to direct our thoughts by way of heart intelligence, while being in command and not in control, we will continue struggling along, rather than finding our way forward. Suspending a belief system is not impossible. It’s totally doable. And then we need to be well anchored to our bodies, getting out of the narrow confines of the brain and access brain cells everywhere else within us that they reside & function from.

    I want you to keep asking the great questions you do and continue finding ways to remain open to new information, possibilities and stringent protocols to develop and follow while exploring the new and the outrageous. Mahalo for your show!

  14. Hi Jeremy,
    I watched Patient

    Hi Jeremy,

    I watched Patient 17 last week. It was good. However, the patient’s view of the aliens seemed almost too dramatic.

    You should check out “Red Lights”. It is about debunking the paranormal.

  15. “We look for evidence that
    “We look for evidence that confirms what we believe”. Well duh, and thank god for that. This is a virtue, not a curse. It’s been the engine of our progress. Your supposed to do that if you have faith in yourself, and let the other guys look for evidence to fit what they believe, and in the course of all that hopefully we get to the truth of something. I will posit that Jeremy himself does exactly this for the entire length of the show which is perfectly acceptable to me, but then chides others for it as if he’s immune from such. He disappointingly does this without ever revealing what he himself really thinks the truth is.

    He’s clearly a very intelligent guy! And because of that I would prefer he take a clear, unambiguous stand on something, and then do his best to defend his idea/belief, and let us decide if his arguments are compelling enough. Either that, or frankly and clearly admit he does not know, or have any pet theories, which is also perfectly fine.

  16. What David said. He nailed
    What David said. He nailed it.

  17. Bentlight, I will look for
    Bentlight, I will look for your book.

    And thank you, Cosmic, very interesting.

  18. Jeremy has mentioned a few
    Jeremy has mentioned a few times that it is almost as if this phenomenon…whatever it is…wants to be noticed…so the question I always finds helps me is “Why?”…who/what would benefit from being noticed…does this thing have an ego?! Is it that it can only manifest further if we notice it, like that is fuelling it somehow? Or is there some kind of altruistic element…that it is doing it for our benefit?…and if so, what could that be? Which leads me back to this notion of dreams being manifested…how does the subconscious benefit from communicating to us through dream symbolism?…what are its intentions? Because if it has none, why bother?

    1. Hey Sherbet… how about
      Hey Sherbet… how about this:
      My 3 year old is standing next to the DVR and ooooH the pretty lights. he wants to touch those pretty lights.
      “get away from the DVR.” doesnt work
      “Step back please.” doesnt work.
      “Hey kid!” doesnt work.
      does he even hear me? How about a sharp loud whistle! NOW, I have his attention, but he doesnt know what I want.
      Maybe call him by his name next and explain. Just thinking…just thinking.

      1. HG – that is interesting and
        HG – that is interesting and got me thinking too. So if we assume this phenomenon has our best interests at heart, like a parent trying to warn a child…I suppose, like kids engrossed in something exciting, shiny and new, they have selective hearing and only notice a parent’s loud shout, or whistle, or something personal, like using their name. My only issue with that analogy is that a parent who really wants to get the message across and has the time, energy and foresight to explain the reasons for their shout, would definitely get the message across…they would explain the ‘why’ of the attention grabbing…but as far as this phenomenon is concerned, isn’t the ‘why’ the bit that is missing? In another words, when something strange happens, it may be because you have only just tuned into the ‘shouting’ and maybe even heard your name, metaphorically speaking, but I can’t help thinking that it would be easier for the phenomenon to just say it how it is, like your suggestion of a parent clearly explaining to a child…rather than dabbling in the symbolism of dreams or the subconscious….i.e. what is the point of something strange happening, being jarred out of our navel-gazing, if we really don’t know why?

        Hmm, but then again, we hear of the effects on people having these strange experiences, as opening up, seeing the world with new eyes, so to speak, changing to a more conscious way of living…becoming more aware of the plight of those around them, or the damage they are doing to the Earth and then actively working to that benefit; So maybe the message is getting through? Maybe it doesn’t matter that we don’t hear a detailed explanation of ‘why’, that we don’t understand the message consciously…just that we trust the message is actually (subconsciously, or however), getting through…causing a change to our behaviour, so we are less likely to harm the Earth…and by extension, ourselves. Which comes full circle to the proposition that this phenomenon might be generated from the Earth itself, or by ourselves somehow. Maybe this phenomenon, in an indirect way, is simply trying to protect our collective future(s)…by intervening individually? Get enough drops of water and they make a puddle, then a stream, a river, an ocean..and if so, the ‘why’ is pretty much a mute point.

  19. Interesting analogy Sherbet,
    Interesting analogy Sherbet, it may be useful to take it further. Do dreams have an ego, a motivation? What is their source? Even in the case of precognitive dreams, can it really be claimed they are from outside ourselves, or from within? They can be seen as both, because to answer that question you have to determine where our consciousness begins and ends. For the most part, however, they seem to maintain the subject/object relationship we have with the ‘outside’, waking world, and this seems to be a characteristic not so much of the dreams or even of the outside world, but of our consciousness, which is why it’s consistent across such a wide range of experience, but how real is that dichotomy? Real enough, I suppose, at least for most…but it may be the biggest cosmic joke…

    And Jack and David, I think Jeremy has made it clear enough that he doesn’t ‘know’ what these phenomena are so to expect him to ‘come clean’ seems odd. I don’t think he’s in denial about physical phenomena, he just opposes the certainty some seem to have that it is purely physical. I don’t see the internal struggle and denial you guys seem to.

  20. Great posts folks.

    Great posts folks.
    Having just read Whitley’s AfterLife Rev. chapter 6 & part of 7… it seems that he(Whitley( is actually addressing that which we bring up, address….
    definitely worth a good look …and reflection.

  21. For decades the medical
    For decades the medical establishment told us that ulcers were caused by stress and excess amounts of stomach acid. The emphasis was on stress, which essentially told the patient, “It’s your fault; you can’t handle the world, and you’re so bad at it that it’s eating holes in your stomach. You need to relax and calm down.” Then they discovered helicobacter pylori–oops. Lyme disease was another example of a pervasive condition that doctors would routinely dismiss (and still do) telling people that their symptoms were psychosomatic. These are not examples of conspiracies orchestrated by medical professionals trying to deceive the public. These are examples of good old fashioned human stupidity. It’s very hard for people to think out of the box. They know what they know; they know what they’ve been taught and “that’s the truth, damn it!”. It’s also very tempting for professionals who are tasked with diagnosing conditions, but find themselves unable to rise to the challenge, to simply invent an answer that blames the patient and ascribes the whole thing to the patient’s psychological state. By doing so, they can reinforce the sense they that are brilliant, successful practitioners and they can happily move on to brilliantly diagnose more prosaic conditions. And so, most likely, goes Morgellons (which, if I had to bet on a cause, will most likely be revealed to be a parasite, presently unknown). Of the three conditions, I have fortunately only contracted one myself, Lyme disease (I still have the antibodies), but it was years ago and at its worse, had only minor effects. The conclusion: just because a person has an MD or a PhD doesn’t mean they’ve got good judgement, and doesn’t mean they won’t sacrifice the well being of their patients to enhance their own sense of well being.

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