This week’s Dreamland: From Whitley: Something unexpected happened on the way to this week’s Dreamland. What I have done is to go back deep into our files to a show we did before we began posting Dreamland on the site. It’s from October of 2003 and is called “The Miracle of Death.” It is a discussion with Dr. Betty Kovacks who lost her entire family in different auto accidents that happened over a relatively short period of time. Doing this show was such a powerful experience for me. It was the first time I had really, deeply felt that the afterlife was real, which has since become such a huge part of my life.

Previously, I believed in the afterlife, but not that there could be the kind of rich contact that I now live with every day. Sychronistically, I was interviewed at 9:00 this morning on the Path11 Podcast about the Afterlife Revolution and Anne was very much a part of the interview, so it just seems right to revise this lovely and powerful old program under these circumstances. It is not in our current Dreamland archive on the site, as it was produced before the archive was started. (We’ll announce my show on the Path 11 Podcast in the newsletter when the interview airs.)

This show is a rich, deep journey that I think will be very supportive to everybody during these difficult months.

Betty J. Kovacs, Ph.D., earned her doctorate at University of California, Irvine, in Comparative Literature and Theory of Symbolic/Mythic Language. She served many years as Chair and Program Chair on the Board of Directors of the Jung Society of Claremont in California and sits on the Academic Advisory Board of Forever Family Foundation. Dr. Kovacs is author of Merchants of Light: The Consciousness That Is Changing the World, winner of the Nautilus Silver Book Award and The Scientific & Medical Network 2019 Book Prize. She has also written The Miracle of Death: There Is Nothing But Life. You can learn more about Betty and her work at the Kamlak Center. To get the Miracle of Death, click here.

PLUS for subscribers, a great crop circle story from Linda Moulton Howe!


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  1. Mr Strieber, were you at the Whittman Massacre?

    Your Wiki says this: Critics including panelists on the British television discussion programme After Dark questioned Strieber about his statements in Communion about not having been at the Whitman shooting.[27] Strieber announced that in his latest book, Transformation, he had changed his mind and decided he had witnessed the shooting. Despite this, according to public information, no “little boy on a bicycle” was killed by Whitman that day. Further, according to Ed Conroy in his Report on Communion, Strieber’s mother stated during an interview that Strieber had been in Austin the day of the shooting, but not on campus.[28]

    I think you answered this before in regards to your moorings have been shaken.


  2. Author

    Why in the name of heaven does this stupid thing keep coming up? What if I was there and was confused because I was traumatized–does that invalidate the rest of my life? Or if I WASN’T there and was confused because I was traumatized–does THAT invalidate the rest of my life?

    Every time I get this question, I have to relive that day yet again.

    1. It was the hundredth anniversary of Sholtz’s Beer Garden, a university watering hole and I was definitely in Austin.

    2. I did see a kid on a bike outside of the Student Union on the sidewalk on Guadalupe. If he wasn’t killed, good!

    3. You cannot imagine how profoundly tired I am of RELIVING THIS! IT DOES NOT MATTER AND IT CHANGES NOTHING.

    Budd Hopkins made a case out of it in hopes of discrediting me, and so do the people who control that Wiki.

    I am now as I always have been, obsessed with telling the truth as best I can. That’s the bottom line.

    1. Ah, so sorry, I can imagine it’s harrowing for you. I have been following you closely since I was about 14, now 28, so was just curious, should have known better.

      Sorry, Whitley and thank you.

      1. Author

        It’s ok. It’s Budd’s fault, and those jerks who control my Wiki. Of course, Wikipedia won’t do a thing about it because I’m Whitley Strieber and I certainly deserve nothing better.

        1. One thing I was going to ask you, which i was going to ask on Zoom, is about how David Jacobs was constantly being told by abductees that they would be doing some form of crowd control or moving panicked people in the future. One abductee was shown a vision of a crowd of angry people chasing a Grey and being asked to rescue the being.

          I do wonder, if they are not going to save us or direct our future would this be indicative of them showing up briefly in the future.

          1. Author

            I think Dave’s probably right about one thing–if they do show up, it’s liable to be sudden. If it is a total surprise, then I will be concerned that it might not be in our best interests, or they decided that the situation was too urgent and the got tried of the dithering of the insiders.

            If it comes after a period of preparation during which the average person gradually gets used to the idea that they are real, that would be best.

  3. What does whether or not Whitley was at the Whitman shooting have to do with the price of tomatoes?

    On an actually relevant subject: will there be a download link for this week’s Dreamland?

  4. Author

    It’s all set now. There was quite a scramble today. We were unable to do the interview that was scheduled for today, as it explains in the show description.

  5. Whitley I have always admired you from that viewpoint of being as honest as one can be and even though the pressures on us are extreme today to err, more so than in the past, truth must always be paramount in how we live and experience life and how we relate that truth to others.

  6. I see that we have a mutual friend in Terry Lovelace.He informs me that his new book is due to come out soon with Amazon?, which is an extension on the Incident at Devil’s Den. What a powerful experience that was for he and his friend Toby!

  7. I went to Path 11, signed up even, but still coudn’t find the interview with you.

    1. Author

      It’s not posted yet. When they post it, they’ll send me a link and I’ll put it in the newsletter.

  8. Wow. This so much resonated with me. I also had a warning before my only daughter was killed in a hit and run. At the time, being a member of the UnknownCountry family helped me so much. I will try to make it to the video meeting today. This podcast could have been done yesterday. It fits our time so well now with the Covid, and political scene.

  9. This is one if the most powerful Dreamlands I have heard since joining years ago. Dr. Kovacks speaks with remarkable clarity and insight, and her personal courage is simply incredible. I kept thinking of what the visitors said to Whitley once: “Have joy,” the same conscious choice I believe Anne made during her life. Dr. Kovacks is a living example of precisely where choosing joy – even under the most heartbreaking of circumstances – brings us. Through Dr. Kovacks, and other credible accounts of NDEs I’ve listened to this past year, it becomes unmissable that joy is the very fabric of the universe.

    Unknowncountry – the best four dollars and whatever cents per month I have ever spent 🙂

  10. Would love to hear more elaboration on the visitors very succinct phrase:

    “HAVE JOY”

    A simple crystallization of truth, much like how the MOTK speaks.

  11. This year due to my sticking to my budget I have only purchased Whitley’s “A New World”. I am so looking forward to Whitley’s new “Jesus, A New Vision” and I have purchased “The Miracle of Death” after listening to this podcast and reading the “Look inside” on Amazon. It is just what I needed! Thank you for posting the show!
    Whitley, I live just a short walk west of Temescal and frequently take PCH through to Ocean Blvd. as a shortcut if I need to travel south (10 to the 405) and avoid a congested freeway. I am always aware of so many people on the shore or crossing PCH and not wearing masks and standing shoulder to shoulder.

  12. Even quotations cited in decades-old books….
    – “We need a worldview…”;
    – “People should…”;
    – “We need to get over (our disconnection)…”;
    – “All you have to do is go to Bangkok/Uruguay…”

    With all these HAFTAs, such spiritual guides have shattered any hope I might have had of surviving, or liberation, or anything positive in my future. HOW do I do even ONE of these monster-size requirements???

  13. I splurged and got the Kindle version of her more recent book as well, “Merchants of Light: The Consciousness That Is Changing the World”.

  14. This is part of what is included in “The Merchants of Light”:
    Appendix 3: The Complete Gospel of Mary Magdalene The Gospel of the Beloved Companion: The Complete Gospel of Mary Magdalene by Jehanne de Quillan (2011) is the first translation into English of a previously unpublished gospel from the first century. This gospel was originally written in Alexandrian Greek, brought from Egypt to the Languedoc in southern France during the early to middle first century, and preserved to the present day by the families and community of that region, which is de Quillan’s own spiritual community. It was translated into Occitan, the language of that area, in the early twelfth century, but de Quillan has used the original Alexandrian Greek as the basis for her translation…

    Kovacs, Betty J. Merchants of Light (p. 457). The Kamlak Center.

  15. Whitley..several times on podcasts etc. you’ve mentioned William (Bill) Mallow Ph.d…Southwest Research Institute, San Antonio TX. I was a personal friend of his..he sang at my wedding in 1971. Where did you meet him?? What a wonderful, interesting man. His research into religion led him to join the Methodist religion and the church I attended in San Antonio.

    Brenda Staresnick

    1. Author

      I met Bill through our mutual membership in the Mind-Science Foundation. As a materials scientist, he was fascinated by the implants that we were then receiving from Dr. Roger Leir, and analyzed many of them very expertly, as I have reported elsewhere. He was a lovely and fascinating man. Work aside, we had wonderful times together.

  16. CHANCE and everyone, our family also drives into Santa Monica eastbound from Pacific Coast Highway (PCH). I hear you on the unmasked beach walkers. On Thursday Dec. 24th, Christmas Eve, we drove that stretch around 8am and the only people on the beach for about a mile were 2 surf fishermen. I couldn’t see if they were wearing masks. Anyway, during the last 10 days or so, the LA County stretches of beach west of Santa Monica are finally starting to empty out most of the time. (The Governor’s current COVID-19 regulations still allow joggers and other exercisers to be unmasked outdoors.) That area may become more popular on New Year’s Day for beach walkers, but probably not even then if it’s raining. There is actual rain in the LA forecast for Sunday Dec. 27th into Monday Dec. 28th.

  17. I love this interview. It was much needed and synchronistic. I was about to pull out of the “high strangeness” again because it all feels too chaotic for my nervous system, especially after yesterday’s situation at the Capitol building. I can’t understand how these people call themselves “patriots” all the time when they seem to hate America, and everything it stands for to the point that they all they want is destruction. It’s truly mind-boggling. Thank you for pulling out this truly genuine interview, that occurred just before. . . this last decade and a half. There is so much MORE obfuscation now and I can’t even believe I’m saying that because I LOATHED the neocon Administration and their disinfo machine. How low can we go? Pretty low it seems. I will be getting her books. I’m really to welcome the Jackals.

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