Whitley Strieber and Jimmy Church have been friends for many years, and in this interview–more of a discussion between two colleagues–they get deeply into questions such as the quest to get aliens who Anjali Shultz believes have a hidden base in the Mojave desert to appear on video with a team of researchers. Will it happen, as she has suggested, before the end of 2021? Jimmy did a searching interview with her on Fade To Black, and he has a lot to say about this subject for sure.

Then, in the third half hour, they get into the unwillingness of people like Lue Elizondo to have anything to do with close encounter witnesses. Whitley expresses anger that the close encounter community is apparently thought of behind closed doors as gaggle of crazy people, and that the spiritual quest that is at the heart of contact for so many is dismissed as “the woo factor.”

He reminds us all of the warning that appeared in the much debunked but still real Crabwood crop formation in 2002: “Beware the bearers of false gifts and their broken promises.” The gifts remain hidden behind a wall of secrecy. Should the public really trust people coming out from behind that wall to offer leadership? Listen as Jimmy and Whitley explore this critically important question.

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  1. Don’t forget Gene Roddenberry’s last show that his wife made posthumously, Earth Final Conflict (or something like that). SAME EXACT scenario.

  2. Will definitely start listening to the Fade to Black because of the much needed humor. Thank you!

  3. I’m still not clear on what “woo” is? Where does this expression come from? I think Elizondo is still some kind of shill for the government and his quitting is an act of some sort. I guess I am out of the loop: I never heard of Anjali Schultz before. Didn’t know Church had a radio show either. Maybe I’ll give it a listen. Some of the discussion went over my head.

    1. This side of the pond, the term is ‘woo-woo’ . Here is the definition:


      unconventional beliefs regarded as having little or no scientific basis, especially those relating to spirituality, mysticism, or alternative medicine.
      “some kind of metaphysical woo-woo”

      relating to or holding unconventional beliefs regarded as having little or no scientific basis, especially those relating to spirituality, mysticism, or alternative medicine.
      “quartz crystals that were so popular with the woo-woo crowd”
      With regards to where the expression came from, there are a few suggestions here: https://www.google.com/search?q=woo+woo+etymology

  4. Author

    The woo factor is what people who are interested in the UFO-alien issue call things they don’t understand, such as the spiritual dimension or some of the strange effects people who are in direct contact experience. I think that’s the best way to explain it. They want to understand this, but in materialistic terms. They want it to be easily comprehensible as part of the world that they already understand. It is nothing of the kind.

    1. The term ‘woo’ is also used to differentiate those like myself who believe that the Sasquatch / Bigfoot beings have a mysterious, perhaps interdimensional nature from those who believe they are strictly flesh and blood creatures which are very skilled at remaining hidden and largely unseen.

      I like the term ‘paraphysical’ as coined by researcher Raymond Fowler of Andreasson Affair fame, who applied it to the Visitors, which also seems to fit what we call ‘cryptids’ as well. These beings (and the UFO entities) seem to fit the paraphysical’ description of being seemingly solid one moment and invisible the next.

    2. yes this is why visitors have practiced “gradualism” a term used by world peace activist and scholar- Daisaku Ikeda- the gradual encounter of cultures being the ideal-there are many life rafts in our country now “experiencers”a- solid term for use in the Church of Woo. If there are Aliens there in Mohajve well, who can know what their interface has been. I was so moved by your explanation of us and the other as output and input. Fantastic! I am so glad I became a subscriber. So- vibration may be the answer – so Woo BUT science is taking us to fantastic places that previously belonged in the Miracle category. As a Buddhhist chanter- until a few years ago- who could give a rational explanation of how two seemingly unconnected persons or events could be connected through prayer- though double blind studies have shown for decades
      that prayers affects illness positively and now we have some science to make it “so”. Jimmy makes some great points.

  5. There were no surprises, but what a great conversation!
    I have commented many times here over the years on many things, including my experience with TTSA at the beginning, and recently about Anjali. All I can say is that I am on the same page as Jimmy and Whitley. To be truly knowledgable, one has to be willing to embrace the woo factor, because just being a living being is ‘woo’, in and of itself.

  6. I had a flashback to the film ” Close encounters ” when you were discussing ” Woo folks ” being excluded .
    In the movie , people were telepathically invited to the ” Devils Tower ” site by the ET,s after contact of one kind or another .
    Once the ” Chosen ” people arrived they were intercepted before they could get to the arena of disclosure , they were dismissed as having no right to be there by the scientists , military and officials .
    In the film , lies were told by the media channels to prevent and dissuade people from coming to wherethe visitors had impelled them to reach .
    I think this reflects what’s happening in reality .
    The very minds and hearts that the visitors deem important are considered irrelevant and obstructive to those in power who seek a very different agenda than was meant for humanity .
    The ” Woo factor ” interferes with what those concealing truths aim to achieve .

  7. Wow! The free dream-landers sure missed a doozy in the second part. I’ve still got lots of questions/concerns on the visitors and the experience but the obvious dismissal of the subject by the government is disrespectful to say the least. It’s sad that those lines were drawn. I’m curious how Elizondo will interact with Jimmy going forward.

    Bravo Whitley on your commitment to all of us and the earth. Great way to end the program.

  8. This was an excellent show and has given me much to consider. Is Anjali coming on Dreamland?

  9. Fascinating discussion! Holding my breath as I am sure many others as well to see where all of this takes us.
    Whitley and Jimmy need to do this on a regular basis!
    They both have a lot to say and educated points of view.
    I very much look forward to the next one as aspects that were covered I had not thought of before, provoking contemplation with a splash of humour, where no man has gone before. Putting my seatbelt on and enjoying the ride! Thanks guys.

  10. Another excellent discussion. Please have Jimmy on more often! The I hope I had held out for TTSA that was that they were approaching the phenomenon in a piecemeal fashion, starting with the strictly physical aspects but willing to then proceed to the non-physical, and with that, to expose and study the witness encounters in all their complexity. It made some sense to me and when I heard Elizondo say that TTSA will “go wherever the evidence leads” I felt that maybe they were truly willing to do just that. But given what I heard on this show, and the fact that TTSA is all but dissolved, that hope has certainly faded. And while I was at first somewhat enthuisiastic about the intelligence community’s UAP threat assessment, the more I considered it the less impressed I became. It acknowledged only what was acknowleged decades ago — that we have a mystery in our skies. The recent statements that future assessments will be published only to select members of congress just creates the impression that this is more of the same and that the great immorality of keeping evidence that almost certainly points to non-human visitors a secret has not filtered through to our government.

    As for Anjali Shultz, hope springs eternal.

  11. That was an amazing show, thank you so much! Really enjoyed the back and forth between you guys. Which video in particular were you talking about Whitley? Pretty sure I’ve been through all of them on this site!

    It makes me so sad, so very sad to think about people like Lue. Hubris and fear are a dangerous mix, to them as well as us and Earth. I’ve been holding out hope that once the dust settles, then they would begin the phase of talking to experiencers. That hope is fading. Their instruments gathering data, while excellent, are only useful in a very narrow scope. The resolution may get better, but it comes at the cost of narrowing the window even further. It’s the five blind men with an elephant.

    It’s an odd culture surrounding Anjali, I was following her on twitter to see how things developed. I expressed concern about her health, mental and physical as well as the detriment that secrecy fosters. People were upset by that, upset that I even expressed worry for her well being. Maybe it’s part of wanting to watch the world burn.

      1. Thanks! That one is pretty amazing, I still remember watching it for the first time it had such an impact.

  12. OK, so after listening to this interview I decided to check out Anjali Shultz and found this YOUTUBE. At 17:40 in, a man approaches from the left side of the screen (WITH A CAMERA?) and moves across to the right side of the screen. At 18:18 minutes in and at least for my eyes, I am seeing  DR. EMMETT BROWN from the movie, “BACK TO THE FUTURE.” At 19:05 in, he moves back to where he started and exits. Is he a doppelganger for DR. EMMETT BROWN? JUST SAYIN’. 

    Añjali Press Conference LIVE IN DC – Bing video


    Back to the Future Part 2 Official Trailer

    1. This is not what I viewed earlier. Slightly different with the first 11 minutes not in that video. Not sure if anything else changed? 

  13. I listened with interest to the interview of Anjali by Jimmy, on Fade to Black. The whole account definitely has a real air of believability about it but with a strange mix of dreamlike unreality. I noted that at the beginning she sounded rather nervous which seemed to gradually transform into forthright certainty at the end. (As a side note, in her press confidence, maybe she was struggling to be heard but I sensed a slight under current of anger, or annoyance from her). Like anyone else, I have a hundred questions but I still can’t get over the fact that at this stage, all this is, is a story. If we are to believe that these higher dimensional beings’ agenda is for irrefutable proof to be made available, why oh why not at least throw us a freekin’ bone and provide at lease some measly bit of evidence? According to the interview, she used her phone flash to light her way down the tunnel and was fully prepped and ready with the camera app open…but, as we hear many times…no pictures…how frustrating.

    I dearly hope this is real, although I suspect it will diminish like a whisp of smoke. I guess we have until the end of the year to wait and see. Just one last thing. I hope she is not actually still linked to the DIA / Pentagon and that this is just some disinformation campain to discredit the community.

  14. Whitley, Jimmy,

    Wonderful show! Thanks for sharing.Keep up the good work, we are with you.

  15. Can someone Link the “best quality ufo video ever” mentioned here? Probably seen it before but wanna see it again.

    1. There a couple of links that might help. The original posting, I think is here…


      But following the trail reveals an old, removed link.

      However this next one was posted later in 2013 and I think is referring to the same video. It was apparently previously known as the “Camerillo UFO” taken in 1998 by a special effects guy called Steve Neill using a Celestron telescope.


      The actual video link is below. If you just follow the link and open in a browser, you will have to log into Vimeo but I found that once I had installed the app on my phone, I could access the video without logging in.


  16. Top-notch stuff you guys…indeed these folks could easily be played by the visitors, showing the foolery of their arrogance.

    Thank you so much.

  17. Whitley,
    Everything you said about the woo factor and possible consequences with experiencers is totally what I have been saying to experiencers and my concern. Right or wrong, Anjali is a lightning rod for the increased hate for experiencers now. I have so much to walk about on this. I know past history of abuse of experiencers by NIDS and MUFON using files on experiencers, as well as people now. It is all so concerning. I am an experiencer, abductee and contactee.

  18. Author

    Boy do I hear you loud and clear! I feel very concerned for all of us.

  19. Whitley,

    Great show! I listened to it twice. It gave me a lot to think about. I don’t really believe it matters if the dark estate thinks we’re woo or not. We’re having a parallel experience that may never meet. The watchers will choose who they want to interact with and I don’t think the dark estate can change that. The watchers understand intention and if they want to work with people who want positive outcomes, us woo types are ready to work. I think they understand politics, power and depravity; hopefully a group of watchers will step forward who reject those concepts. When you talked about Anjali, I remembered during the last 5-7 years I’d drive down the freeway and pass signs saying the world was going to end on such-n-such day. When it didn’t happen the signs would quietly disappear. Anjali’s story feels hinky like that. Time will tell.

  20. What a stellar interview!!
    My two favorite hosts of all that is “woo” being together for a fascinating 90 minutes!
    As a long time listener of Whitley and Jimmy, I knew this would be an enlightening experience to say the least!!
    Thank you so much Whitley for putting this together. Peace and many blessings to you both 🌲🧡🌻

  21. again,,,,she’s coming straight out of the government…..its all another experiment of prepping prying spicing and plying the inventory; us…..i’m sure she has her own experiential “base” of personal experience…but I say someone that’s up the ladder is utilizing this for the larger narrative; us or them vs they or when

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