Most podcasts take a very one-dimensional approach to the idea of what our visitors are: they’re aliens. From the beginning, Whitley called them visitors because we don’t know that. Even though we have debris and bodies and maybe even intact disks, we have no idea where they came from in space and time.

Let’s take a fresh look, and for the next two weeks we’re going to do just that on Dreamland–and the results are stunning. Never, ever will you have heard a conversation like this!

Three amazing experts join Whitley to tackle the question of just what does “real” mean when it comes to UFOs and close encounters? Even if we are dealing with beings from another planet, they are NOT like us…or is it that they play games intended to make us think that? Whitley’s Super Natural co-author, Jeff Kripal, American Cosmic author Diana Walsh Pasulka and Rhodes Scholar, University of Texas professor and Ford Foundation program officer John Phillip Santos explore these topics as never before, walking what Whitley calls the “shadow line” between us and our visitors. And what is that shadow line? As Jeff Kripal puts it, “we are the future of the past and the past of the future.” But if time is not linear, what does that mean? And could the truth be, then, that our visitors know more than we do about who we are? And do we know more than we realize about them?

This is the first of a two week show as we dig deep into the unknown with three of the most powerful minds working in this field. Next week, why are the insiders now calling the visitors our “sponsors,” and are the materials from other worlds or from the future, and could we, ourselves, be technology?

Jeff Kripal’s website is Diana Walsh Pasulka can be found at DianaWalshPasulka. Learn more about John Phillip Santos on his University of Texas at San Antonio profile.

To get Jeff’s book Superhumanities, click here. For Diana’s American Cosmic, click here. For John’s memoir, Places Left Unfinished at the End of Time, click here.

We are hoping that this important 2 week conversation is going to help change the conversation about aliens and UFOs and are therefore offering it in full to both our subscribers and our free users. If you are a free user, please subscribe and support this unique and important website. Click here to see our plans!

Dreamland Video podcast
To watch the FREE video version on YouTube, click here.

Subscribers, to watch the subscriber version of the video, first log in then click on Dreamland Subscriber-Only Video Podcast link.


  1. Excellent discussion – so many things to contemplate. Thank you all.

    Trika (Trinity) = the Perceiver (Consciousness, Awareness) + the Perceived (world, body, mind, dreams, …) + the Action (The power of attention, focus, will, the Spirit).

    The Duality of body/physical and mind are really just aspects of the Perceived.

    It is very interesting to consider what the intense human consciousness of a group or groups, especially continued over time, does to the space of a place (as mentioned by John about New Mexico, but also about shrines, fountains, holy places, etc.): perhaps potentiating ‘supernatural’, ‘synchronistic’, or ‘revelatory’ frequency or strength of occurrence.

  2. At the end Whitley, you say that it has been 2 hours and yet here in Australia it was only 1 hour. I know there will be another one next week so have we heard the second hour today and will hear the first hour next week?

    1. Author

      The subscriber audio was reversed! We have corrected this. I am so sorry this happened. I am responsible and in desperate need of an assistant. I am just doing too much. If you listened to the whole subscriber audio, then you have already listened to part two. What is posted now is the correct part one. If you listen to that, you will have the whole show. (They are not sequential, so you won’t be confused by listening to part one after part two.)

  3. Having heard all the speakers during “The Archives of the Impossible” event earlier in the year, I wanted more! This week’s Dreamland did not disappoint, and I eagerly await next week’s installment. It’s taken years, but I finally feel like some of us are really on the right path. (Meaning that we are asking the right questions, and taking different trajectories of meaning and relevance to us as individuals, as well as part of humanity.).

    1. Yes, “heavy hitters” for sure! Are we at the edge of “Heaven” trying to peer in to see what “Eternity” is like while we’re still in this earthly human body? Is it possible to do this? Is this what we’re trying to find out? Is this what religions have tried to examine? I really enjoyed this show and can’t wait for the second one! Great job done by all!

  4. Wow great discussion Whitley can’t wait for the second half. We need to keep talking about this It’s important and if there are any free listeners reading these comments damn it subscribed you truly are missing out on amazing discussions you won’t regret it

  5. I’m painting a medieval banner at the moment and have happily listened to this first half of the show, 3 times already. I find it quite positive that despite the “brain-bending” content, my brain hasn’t really been very bent at all and I have understood the concepts quite readily. I don’t mean this as a criticism, as I very much enjoy the show, but rather as an indicator of how far I must have come in my thinking.

    Keep it up Whitley, I’m getting there slowly.

  6. I’m afraid I did not buy it. Nice to be all clever and post modernist, but nobody really knows what is going on. Until the phenomenon choses to show itself (if, indeed there is a phenomenon which is capable of showing itself), then such talk as this is, well, just talk. But I guess a show consisting of four people saying’well, I dunno’ would not make great radio The only reasonable thing we can do is to accumulate as much data as we can (as Mufon and Richard Dolan are doing) and then hope the data speaks to us in a useful way.

    1. What would you consider as being good data, or evidence? Objective recordings maybe? Because this phenomenon predominantly lives in subjective experience, far more than it does within physical manifestations. The problem with that, is we cannot prove our subjective experience. I cannot prove to you that I have a conscious experience. I know it… but I can’t prove it to you. The phrase “I know what I saw” is enough evidence for an individual but trying to convince someone else that their unusual experienced was real, is next to pointless. It’s interesting, that despite the inherent dubious nature of memory and perception, whitness testimony can be submitted as evidence in a court of law and may actually be crucial in swaying a jury towards conviction…yet if the same person were whitness to an unusual phenomenon, they would be laughed out of court. How would your opinion of reality change, if these witnesses testimonies were treated as real evidence? I suspect you would be much closer to the truth, than if you only scrutinised the ‘nuts and bolts’ fallen from a silver aerial disk.

      1. I think your comments are very true. I agree that mostly (possibly all) we have are people’s subjective experiences. I think the difficulty you raise of proving or disproving subjective experience is hugely important. I think all we can do is to collect a lot of different accounts. If we can collect enough, then, eventually we may see patterns in the data which can speak to us about the reality of the phenomenon. Don’t get me wrong, I have had sufficient experiences of my own, mostly ghosts and ESP to firmly believe that there is something out there, but I think that at our present level of knowledge, all we can do is watch, wait and collect evidence.

        1. Whitley and Anne received something like half a million letters after Whitley’s book Communion was released, many of which contain personal accounts. They have all been passed to Rice University, where they are being digitally archived. The data is there but collating and categorising them will be a mammoth task. A very small subset of them can be found in The Communion Letters book. Apparently Anne read every one of the thousands of original letters and said that she could tell which ones were authentic accounts, as they were the weirdest! I’m lucky, I have an original signed copy but there are some second hand examples out there. It is available on Kindle, if you’re interested.

          1. My letter should be among the “Communion Letters” as way back then when Whitley’s book Communion came out after reading it I knew I had to write a letter describing my experiences. As the many decades have passed since then, I’m actually a little embarrassed at my faded memory of what I wrote. I don’t think my letter was very coherent. I think I jotted down disjointed “notes” instead of a proper letter but I just felt I had to communicate it to Whitley quickly. Since then I have remembered more vividly what I could only write about vaguely to Whitley all those years ago. And each time the memory of my experiences come to mind, it is clearer and more detailed.

  7. I would like to thank all of the guests for this interview and am looking forward to the next part this week…….

    1. Amazing. Listening to him speak of the healers in his family and the information and mission not spoken about in church- such it was in my family and we were Baptists in Arkansas- my mother was a healer and mystic. She spoke directly to me- what was her spiritual lineage? I know our ancestry but what is that lineage? wow wow- the thought of it came clear to me in a new way as I listened. thank you for such a program that I can dig into.

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