We begin a periodic series of shows with the winners of the Bigelow Institute for Consciousness Studies afterlife essay contest with this discussion with Thinking Allowed host Dr. Jeffrey Mishlove. Jeff is a licensed clinical psychologist and accomplished radio and television interviewer. He is also the recent winner of the first prize in the Bigelow Institute for Consciousness Studies essay competition, where entrants were asked to write essays presenting the evidence for survival of human consciousness after bodily death.

Jeffrey’s investigation into what he calls “human deviancy” progressed from a more conventional study of psychopathology to parapsychology, the study of psychic phenomena. He holds the only doctoral diploma in parapsychology to be awarded by an accredited American university (University of California, Berkeley).

Jeffrey speaks with a valuable clarity about his own understanding of the afterlife and why he believes that it is real.

In this episode, he and Whitley journey into a rich discussion on topics such as what happens when we die, prophetic dreams, and the connection between the dreamworld and high strangeness.

Jeffrey Mishlove’s website is https://thinkingallowed.com.

The leading essays from the Bigelow Institute for Consciousness Studies essay competition, including Jeffrey’s, can be read here. To lean more about the Institute, click here.

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  1. Bigelow has a half a million bucks laying around to give to someone for just writing a spiffy essay? I wonder what he would give me to wash his car!

    1. I’d keep well away from his car…you don’t want to end up with a hitchhiker 😉

      1. Author

        Remember that it was Bigelow who originally funded the National Institute for Discovery Sciences that did all the research on the Skinwalker Ranch. He is virtually the only super-wealthy person who will put serious money into any of these subjects.

        Can you imagine Elon Musk, Jeff Bezos, Bill Gates or any of the others spreading money around in these edgy areas? I can’t. Also, he had the guts to say on Sixty Minutes that he’d had a close encounter. So don’t be too jealous of his money. It, and his heart, are in the right place.

        1. Nailed it… That’s what Philanthropy is .. not buying social media & riding in rockets to show off.

        2. Yes, but have you noticed that he keeps all the results and findings TO HIMSELF?

          1. Don’t worry they will be monetized and placed in a training/book/film. 🙂

        3. Re: Skinwalker Ranch. I’ve read close to everything Jeff Kripal writes about. Having read that book, I don’t envy anyone involved. Per Sherbet’s comment–wouldn’t want those whatever-they-ares hitching a ride, whether by means of an external vehicle or as an internal aspect of mind. BTW, the book mentioned L’Amour’s Hidden Mesa, so I read that, too. There is a single unexplained line (p. 123) where main character sees books by Evans-Wentz and Eliade. JJK, working with Elizabeth Krohn, said that her reaction to reading a novel by Eliade was that it was not fiction. Given some of my own experiences, I suspect the same might be the case with L’Amour.

  2. Another fantastic conversation. The archives here and on New Thinking Allowed are so rich. I think the content is as valuable as a college education. I pity the ‘Free Dreamlanders’ because they don’t get what radio news personality of years gone by, Paul Harvey used to refer to as “The rest of the story”. Friends don’t let friends be Free Dreamlanders. Thanks, Whitley and Jeffrey.

  3. Your discussion about the human body and the various ways it’s dealt with after death highlights the ongoing significance of the confusion regarding its purpose. I know I’m an eternal being and have come to think of my body as my “earth suit.” I believe I’ve had many “suits” and will probably have many more only not convinced they’ll be of this earth. I enjoyed Jeffrey’s interview very much and have had one of his books for years which was purchased at a presentation probably 50 years ago in, I think, Palo Alto.

  4. Jeff’s energetic enthusiastic tone was such a startling contrast to Whitley’s subdued tone! At times it was hard getting the volume right. When Whitley was clear, Jeff was practically yelling from my speaker. But technical observations aside, a fascinating interview. I’ve been listening to Jeff for years. He always has that same enthusiasm.

    1. It’s interesting you mentioned the issue of gain in podcasts Bill. Whilst I’ve never noticed an issue with Dreamland I’ve recently encountered an issue of Richard Syrett’s ‘Strange Planet’. His main show content sounds fine but the occasional announcements are way too loud and actually startle me from time to time.

      1. Just for the record, my name is Will, as in “Danger, Will Robinson!” Bill is sort of an old fashioned name. Not many of those still around. Most people named William now go as Will, at least in the USA. But it has its drawbacks. In highschool, my football coach would say “Where there is a WILL, there is a way”. Groan. Then there is the classic “Will Power!”

        1. Apologies Will. Incidentally, I watched a terrific bio-documentary on Jonathan Harris a couple of weeks ago, lovely human being and adored by fellow actors. I was amazed that I’d never spotted that Jonathan provided the voice of Lucifer, Baltar’s underling in the 80’s Battlestar Galactica. Anyway, moving on..

        2. I’ve been a big fan of Jeff M. for decades, too. And appreciate your historical lesson about the diminutives of William. My father and brother–Bill; nephew and great-nephew are Will. An even worse name play: “Fire at (W)ill!

  5. Author

    We have been having issues with variable gain for some time. It’s not present in the original files, but for some reason the listening experience is degraded. Given that the same thing seems to be happening on other podcasts, wonder if it’s an issue with the internet backbone?

    Of course, we have all kinds of weird sonic stuff on this show, but that’s another story…

    1. I did not experience any of these audio issues at all today (May 7). Both you and Jeffrey came through equally loud and clear. Great interview by the way.

    2. At home I use a C Crane FM transmitter to broadcast internet audio which allows me to listen to Dreamland, Coast and other shows while taking a long hot bath or work in the garden. Importing it to the UK cost me double taxes but was worth it, great transmitter.

      I’ve always wondered why when I move around a room the audio seems to be affected on the radio. Understandably, I’ve wondered if I have an implant and have bumps under the skin in several places. I recall that Mr Strieber mentioned years ago that an implant broadcast in the FM band. Very strange but there doesn’t appear anything I can do about it so I just carry on.

  6. A quick aside from this week’s excellent discussion; if you’ve ever wanted to have a Dreamland app to access the show on your phone rather than having to open a browser then I have a halfway solution.

    I stumbled across a light app creator called Hermit (for Android only unfortunately).

    You use the app to create an icon that instantly opens the page of your choice. You can easily customise the actions, ad-blocker, pop-up blocker, icons etc.

    In one click I now go straight to the Dreamland podcast list rather than having to open a browser. Easy.

    If there was a link to the current show stream then you could open it in that too as long as the url didn’t change each week.

    Hope this helps someone.


    I paid £5.49/$6.77 for the full app and am very happy with it. No, I am not connected with the developers in any way.


    1. Author

      Interesting! An Unknowncountry app is on my bucket list for sure!

      1. Apps can be expensive Mr Strieber. I’d leave it. My former employer dropped the idea of a company app and I applaud him for that. Using this lite app creator a listener can effectively create a shortcut to a certain page, with customised icon. It looks like a full app, feels almost like a subscriber app but isn’t quite the full on experience that costs Unknowncountry silly money.

        My take? Encourage lite apps/link creators and keep moving forward at no extra cost.

        I love you all very much, even if I am a blundering British Conservative.


        1. Von Hausenberg, you a Conservative Brit; me, an East Coast USA liberal. Thnks for that great info. I plan to install the app later today. I too love my UC family & have since 1999! Peace to all. Toodles.

      2. I just emailed a demo of this lite app in use and the screencapture video I sent seems to have been interfered with at point of send. Sorted it but frustrating to say the least. I checked it twice before I sent it and still a problem.


  7. This show is truly a classic. Thanks to the three of you, I feel a Peace and my heart is singing. We have hope.

    1. Bless your heart Mimi. I will be thinking of you when I travel to Glastonbury in a couple of months for my annual solitary silent pilgrimage.


  8. While listening to the first part of the interview regarding the key, what I heard for Whitley was to “Stay on ‘The Path’ and become the Master of ‘The Key’. 🙂

    Regarding the life review at death, my feeling is that the life review is the final ‘upload’ from the physical body to the Cosmic Library of Consciousness. If you are lucky enough to remember other lives, those memories get past on as well, perhaps to be included in a new entity who in turn remembers this life as ‘you’—and all those other lives that will have relevance to its future being and growth. The more that you remember, the more information you will have available when the need arises in that life—if you pay attention.

    Very fascinating discussion…from two individuals whose memories have served them well!

  9. Two of my all time favorite thinkers, still physical and in conversation about the most intriguing topics. Phenomenal. So many outstanding interviews you each have graced modern times with. You both are trail blazers of the highest sort, living legends. “Bravo” is an understatement.

    One thing that did make me laugh was when Jeff spoke about how he and his wife have a randevu place pre-selected. From my NDE research, I suspect this is only something a very recently departed individual might require. It seems we are far less form-based (and more vibration/frequency focused) after we cross (holographically touching all space and time, able to tune in to anything specific merely by intention) though I guess I am only hypothesizing, albeit based on much research. I suspect some of our assumptions and beliefs about our own “individuality” may still create temporary limitations (after we shed our skin). It certainly seems that more consistent (and grass-roots) communication/guidance from loved ones and great thinkers who have crossed might be of crucial importance going forward, particularly as we approach or pass through potential tipping points, collectively. I greatly appreciate that Anne continues to offer insights through you Whitley, and anticipate a growing degree of similar connections as we go. Once the veil is truly rent for the majority of humans, we may be in an entirely new phase of evolution. I have a sense that we are being shepherded to this juncture sooner than we suspect by encounters with the visitors and other fantastic experiences, just in time for massive upheavals on all fronts…

    Whitley, with respect to esteemed researchers, has Dr. Kenneth Ring ever been on the program? I feel like you must have hosted him, but can not find anything using the embedded search engine.

  10. Another great interview that is laden with much content to consider for days!

    I would love to hear a Dreamland show one day where Jeff is interviewed about his many guests, as the show has such a rich history and tenure. He met and interviewed the late Dr. Charles Muses, and when you started talking about hyper dimensions and mathematicians I was sure you were headed there but alas, no.

    Whitley, I was surprised to hear you mention your choice of cremation given your great interest and study of soul anatomy. Do I think communication from the next world is reliant upon the physical remains of the entity on earth? No, but the ancients believed that physical preservation was crucial to the ultimate survival of the soul entity and I continue my own studies to find out why.

    As I write this, I can’t help but think of Philip K Dick’s novel Ubiq, and the device that facilitated communication with people referred to as being in a state of “half-life”.

  11. Author

    I have wondered that myself. Most famously, of course, the Egyptians considered preservation of the body essential to communication. From our end, I just don’t think it’s knowable, and I don’t want to put my kids to the trouble of an expensive burial and the probability that the grave will be vandalized.

    Anne donated her body to a medical school and I would do the same, but it really tore us up to let her go like that, and I don’t want to put my kids through that misery again. We all thought it was a fine idea until the actual moment they came for her. She never would have done it if she thought it would cause us pain. But when it actually happened, it was just a real heartbreak.

    1. In Tibetan Buddhism, it is about timing in regards to the body after death. The body may be cremated, sky burial, whatever, but the body should remain intact for 3 or 4 days prior to to the cremation or burial. This aids the process of the person’s consciousness letting go of its prior body and life and all of its attachments and more easily moving to the next. I tend to think this is more important than preservation of the body itself. People who are prepared emotionally and intellectually for death (as Anne was) have an easier transition and are probably less likely to feel a need of prolonged attachment to the body after death. Likewise, people who pass in accidents or catastrophic trauma will tend to be less likely for a smooth transition—this is when the problem of ‘ghosts’ is more likely. They may not always haunt a place, but they can certainly haunt the dreams of the living ( I assisted an acquaintance with this problem years ago.)

      1. Author

        This is also why Tibetan Buddhism teaches to expect death the next second, not sometime off in the future. Work with this until it becomes part of you. It is incredibly freeing.

    2. This must be incredibly difficult for you and I sympathize. You’ve got to go with what you feel is right of course.

      I do not think that your grave would get vandalized.

  12. Apologies Will. Incidentally, I watched a terrific bio-documentary on Jonathan Harris a couple of weeks ago, lovely human being and adored by fellow actors. I was amazed that I’d never spotted that Jonathan provided the voice of Lucifer, Baltar’s underling. Anyway, moving on..

  13. Apologies Will. Incidentally, I watched a terrific bio-documentary on Jonathan Harris a couple of weeks ago, lovely human being and adored by fellow actors. I was amazed that I’d never spotted that Jonathan provided the voice of Lucifer, Baltar’s underling in the 80’s Battlestar Galactica. Anyway, moving on..

    1. you really are a blundering British conservative…posting twice, with an addendum. Love it! I’m a silly Brit too, so don’t take it the wrong way.

    2. Jonathan Harris was my role model in grade school. This got me beat up a lot. “Oh, the pain, the pain” as he used to say on LOST IN SPACE. Some wits have suggested that Dr. Smith had an abnormal interest in Will Robinson in that show. But they made a great comedic duo, as did Dr. Smith and the Robot. “You bumbling booby!”

      1. Many of us who turned out to fit somewhere among those rainbow hues had few role models. I rather liked Uncle Arthur on “Bewitched.” Fun, witty, an obvious Trickster type.

  14. When Dr. Jeffrey Mishlove said he lives in Albuquerque, New Mexico, I thought of Linda Moulton Howe who lives in Albuquerque as well. Last Wednesday night after listening to the first part of ‘EARTHFILES’ and before the questions started, I logged off. It was late and I was really tired. HOWEVER, this article caught my eye as I clicked out of her site, was it posted while earthfiles was still airing? I read it and absolutely knew it was in response to what Whitley and Terri Lovelace were discussing/reporting. I sent this thought on to Linda.

    To: “earthfiles@earthfiles.com”
    Sent: 5/4/2022 11:15:51 PM
    Subject: A THOUGHT…….
    Linda, this is ‘US’/OR THE FUTURE ‘US’ if applied to humankind. A seamless portrait of the NEW HUMAN and most people will not even be aware of the transformation. (Only my thoughts here). A really good Earthfiles tonight with Whitley and Terri Lovelace THANK YOU.

    Borneo has a hybrid ‘mystery monkey,’ and researchers are concerned
    (((Patrick Pester  20 mins ago.)))


    Borneo has a hybrid ‘mystery monkey,’ and researchers are concerned (microsoftnewskids.com)

    “Most hybrids born from different species are sterile and unable to produce offspring, which makes the so-called mystery monkey and her baby even more unusual. It’s possible she was allomothering — or taking care of another female’s infant — but the photos showed that she had swollen breasts associated with lactation, which indicates the offspring was her own.”

  15. I am trying to reconcile what the Master of the Key said about doing evil and its stain on the soul versus your question to Anne about what happens to souls that have done evil during their lifetime.
    Mellen Thomas Benedict’s story reconciles with what Anne said to you Whitley.
    I also wonder how many past lifetimes we may have all committed some form of evil, given most if not all of us would surely have been born into very trying circumstances in some previous lives. Do we need to lead many lives both compassionate and evil to obtain enough information we no longer need to reincarnate? Are older souls on a better path than newer souls? Are newer souls more likely to start with evil? Love to hear more on this!

    1. Maybe Anne’s answer of ‘Nothing’, refers to a lack of progression towards the divine? Perhaps that is agony for a soul. Like a child, desperately seeking the love and warm affection of a parent, but being left out in the cold.

  16. I’ve been an admirer of Dr. Mishlove’s work since reading the extraordinary book, P.K. Man. I think this is a well deserved award, going to someone who has bravely pursued a career in a discipline that is severely underfunded and often unfairly maligned. Congratulations Doctor!

  17. Love you enemy – Yes always, but do not consider the psychopathic ego which makes a soul become an enemy to be the real person. Love a war – absolutely not, ever, for any reason. Credibility went way down with the statement about love the war!!!

    1. I think perhaps the limitations of language are interfering and stirring emotion and confusion. Jeff M expanded on his thoughts here with the idea of ‘authorship’. That idea leads to a deeper understanding, beyond language, of the essential truth he is attempting to speak.
      ~ 5 ~
      The Tao doesn’t take sides;
      it gives birth to both good and evil.
      The Master doesn’t take sides;
      she welcomes both saints and sinners.
      The Tao is like a bellows:
      it is empty yet infinitely capable.
      The more you use it, the more it produces;
      the more you talk of it, the less you understand.
      Hold on to the center.
      I uploaded the Mitchell translation of the Tao Te Ching here. Always worth another look ~

  18. By my definition of consciousness, sensing and responding to changes, which avoids the circularity of Decartes and others, everything is conscious. We are filters of consciousness rather than producers of it, as is everything else. People wanting to feel special and brave deny that which overthrows their imagined superiority and control.

  19. I downloaded this podcast to my phone and was listening while I walked my dog. My phone was in my pants pocket. When Jeffrey started talking about Raudive and instrumental transcommunication my phone turned itself up to almost full volume and almost deafened me. At first I thought there was something wrong with the audio on the recording but after rewinding a little way I found the audio was normal. There was nothing in my pocket that could have pressed against the volume button.

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