Could there be a singular intelligence speaking to us through symbolic events that we interpret as paranormal? “Vuk,” from the Tracing Owls podcast, says yes—and that it is likely Earth herself. On this edition of Dreamland, we talk Gaia Theory with a man whose educational background in biology led him to build his version of the theory from the ground up—literally! Get ready for a winding conversation that, even more  than getting you thinking differently about the paranormal, may actually break your brain.

When you’re done here, check out Vuk’s podcast, Tracing Owls: Click here!

His is the type of rare genius we need to embrace in these fields.

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  1. I look forward to listening to this interview this weekend! ‘Tracing Owls’ and I have followed one another on Twitter, and also engaged in some interesting back-and-forth there too.

  2. Add to this conversation that we are driven by the selfish molecule DNA. Kinda gives insight to our warlike tendencies.

    The idea of endosymbionts occupying every step of our creation and we are continuously reinventing ourselves as we adapt or actually change our environment is a real mind bender. Nice show guys

  3. When we talk about matter or life we are essentially talking about energy and in turn vibration. Underlying that is mathematics. The question of what makes art or music beautiful, could that not be our perception of vibration and its underlying mathematics? It may be outside the scope of science at this time, but a clearer understanding of energy or vibration and the underlying math may give us a deeper understanding of Gaia Theory.

    1. Humans find patterns with the Golden Mean beautiful. Nature definitely embodies the Golden Mean in much of its structure.

      1. Yes. As I listened I was thinking that esthetics very possibly can be explored by the scientific method. There is a good deal of evidence for that. For a relatively simple example, in human biology, one can find that traits that are considered beautiful in a potential mate are also associated with health and reproductive fitness. Of course that’s not the whole picture, but it’s a big part of it.

        My sense is that science can be applied to much more than 1% of the phenomena of the world.

  4. “Could the Entire Paranormal be …” – Fill in the blank with anything and it is extremely statistically unlikely to be true!

    In my reading of Vallee he did not negate the ETH, but indicated there is a lot more going on than just the ETH and explaining everything as the ETH was illogical. From the Trinity Dreamland show we see both a physical craft and entities which appeared organic and are extremely likely to have been ET, unless the whole story is disinformation. A statistical meta-analysis of the accounts of encounters places near certainty that a large percentage of the UFO/UAP/UAUP phenomena involve ET. This does not discount some being other, such as AI which is sentient and active on its own. Advanced ET would be aware of their multidimensional nature (humans are also multi-dimensional, but are largely unaware and dysfunctional). Some advanced ET would have multi-dimensional technology. Some advanced ET would have mastered Psi. Some very advanced ET may be able translocate without technology. But anyone who does not accept that multiple species of ET are engaging humanity at this point is either ignorant, Lying. or brainwashed by a primitive form of philosophical materialism. Denial of an ET presence is so blatant of a lie that it is leading to serious problems where people are increasingly likely to think anything the establishment states is also a lie.

    I completely accept that Earth is a living being on a higher dimension. This may indeed account for some paranormal perceptions. I completely accept survival after death and would think it likely that those on the other side are also tied to and integrated within Earth’s life force. ‘Afterlife Revolution’ provides good evidence that Anne has communicated since she went to other people and had them contact Whitley. ‘Surviving Death’ by Leslie Kean also provides nice evidence for those who need it. Something may appear as a ghost and be lying, but in many cases people communicate with dead relations. Indigenous people from all over the world accept both that the Earth is alive and that we continue when these body shells fall away.

    The premise that the theater in the sky and some of the other paranormal events humans witness is telling us something or has a message for us is a very interesting hypothesis. At the very least it invites us to rethink what we are, what is a living consciousness.

  5. There is so much that I would like to chime in with about this interview, but putting it down in comments in this space would… probably bore everyone. Instead, I will leave you all with something that I wrote for my website a few years ago:

    Life is The Mystery School and we are all students, as well as teachers. Class is always in session. Please feel free to roam around and explore the expanses of consciousness and the Universe.. and question everything!

    That, and the talk offered several jumping off points in need of more consideration and exploration, such as the cultural aspects of the so-called paranormal. Many times I listened to ‘Dreamland’ over the years and realized that cultural differences around the world are often ignored. Thankfully, Vuk opened the door a bit on that one, in regards to how Christianity is practiced in parts of Eastern Europe. How do you question someone on these topics that has no concept for numbers or time, such as the people of the Pirahã people of Brazil, for instance? So, lumping together indigenous perspectives, especially about living with nature, varies too, as well as what would be considered ‘paranormal’ among different world cultures.

    Much to consider…more to come?

    1. Wow that Spiegel article is interesting, thanks! (The interview had a few interesting moments too).

  6. The low bandwidth file for subscribers seems to be the free/short version….

    1. Author

      This has been fixed. We had another visit from our gremlin this week…

      1. Have to love Gremlins. I just had to rebuild my Linux system three times thanks to a glitch with nvidia drivers. Ah well, I needed to get to the root of the issue. If anyone else has had issues with Linux booting after an update then just switch to Xorg default graphics. Aye caramba..

  7. If one were to suppose that the Earth is presently conscious, I wonder whether it was so in the distant past? In another words, might the level of consciousness of the Earth be inextricably entwined with the number of conscious lifeforms that she develops and the extent to which they are aware? I can’t help thinking there is more to this than just a biological imperative, to spread the seeds of Earth (us) throughout the Cosmos. If this particular Universe has been set up with rules that encourage an ever increasing complexity, then just spreading out biological lifeforms throught an ever expanding sphere, does not seem to accomplish that. So once a dim light of consciousness has been achieved, what is the next step? How is the complexity of consciousness increased…who fans the flames, and how?

    I wonder, do you think that so-called paranormal events happened in the far distant past, even when there was no conscious (enough) being there to recognise it? If not, then why? Could it be that the paranormal requires a certain level of consciousness to manifest, or to reveal itself to?

    So what about modern times, the now? Do you think books fly out of bookcases onto an open floor of their own accord, if there is no-one there to see it, or ever find it and wonder why, or how?

    If not, there seem to me, to be three main posibilities as to why:-

    1. A conscious being has the latent ability to trigger paranormal events, just by being present… no grand scheme behind it… but just because consiousness and the paranormal eminate from, or operate within, the same level. Like ocean waves of a sufficient height naturally generating spray.

    2. The above, but the paranormal events are triggered by an evolutionary imperative…a Universal feedback loop, of sorts, that triggers not a biological expansion, but initiates a spread of consciousness from a surface level, to a much more complex introspective form, that starts to inhabit an inner world that is ordinarily hidden to us. What seems to us to be going ‘within’, could actually, in a very real sense, be an expansion into the dimension of consciousness and the paranormal.

    3. The above, but the paranormal event comes from some other source than ourselves, like a gardener seeing a lone bud amid the barren soil and then deciding to cultivating it, effectively pulling it into its natural flowering state…a state that the bud knew nothing of, but the gardener knows everything.

    So the question is…would the bud naturally flourish in such barren soil… or is the intervention of the gardener always required? In another words, does a conscious being narually evolve into an increasingly complex inner life, or is an inward tug always required, to start the momentum flowing in the right direction?

    So who, or what, is doing the pulling?

    Is it possible that there can actually be no distinction between, 1. the natural proclivity of consciousness to generate paranormal events, 2. a Universal imperative to increase complexity on multiple levels, and 3. an external cultivating pull towards a flowering inner life of consciousness???

    Maybe there is no point in logically carving up the Ocean into swells, tides, waves and spray… Maybe there is, and always will be, just the water.

    1. SHERBET UFO……Such an excellent and thought-out post, WISH I HAD THE ANSWER. There is sooo much here to contemplate.

  8. This was a fantastic interview. It did get into some weeds when Jeremy didn’t seem to connect with Vuk’s basic biological concepts and Vuk similarly seemed unaware of what Jeremy was driving at regarding some physics concepts. I wonder what it would be like if they could spend some more time shooting the breeze and reach a greater understanding.

    It never occurred to me that the Earth Herself might be generating some paranormal phenomena. What if that’s the ultimate explanation for crop circles? (I’m not saying that it is….)

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