Anne Tyler was drawn by Anne Strieber into her new engagement with the experiencer community, and this discussion explores how someone on the nonphysical side of human life might affect and change lives on this side.

Anne is a psychotherapist who runs the Tyler Institute, a private practice which specializes in gifted and talented children and adults. She met – or was drawn to – Whitley at the Archives of Impossible conference at Rice university under incredibly strange circumstances. She now also specializes in working with experiencers, using her psychological expertise to help them come to terms with their strange encounters.

Listen as Anne and Whitley discuss their strange meeting, Anne Strieber’s role in their friendship, and the importance of the Communion letters now and in the future. In this joyous discussion, Anne reflects on her past and recent experiences, her journey to date, working with Yvonne Smith, reflections on where she is now, and where we may be headed.

For more information about Anne Tyler and her work, go to

Don’t miss the new edition of Communion! Kindle, Paperback and Audiobook read by Whitley. Click here to order!

Are you an experiencer in search of others and the pros who work with them? Visit the Experiencer Group. Click here.

Anne Tyler joins subscribers in the video meeting room at 11AM July 16. (Meeting not open until that date.)

The image on the right is Anne’s husband Tony being touched by the white moth as he was encouraging her to tell her story and engage with the experiencer community.

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To watch the FREE video version on YouTube, click here.

Subscribers, to watch the subscriber version of the video, first log in then click on Dreamland Subscriber-Only Video Podcast link.


  1. I have been looking for any resources for support for experiencers for the last two days, as well as writing requests for help, then erasing them on this very site yesterday! then popped on to this. Wow.

    1. Hi, yes, isn’t this synchronistic? The magic of our world 😉


      1. I left my info on your website and look forward to speaking with someone. It had been very difficult and taxing looking for support in the “straight” medical community. Thank you for your work.

        1. It is very hard to find those who understand the needs of experiencers. I hope to join with many others to collectively change that!

          speak to you soon.


  2. Just got home from 3 days in Glastonbury and yet to listen to this show. Sat mornings are my day for Dreamland so please sit tight on that.

    While in Glastonbury I couldn’t hear any of the local birds talking to me. I walked in silence, alone, for hours. Up and down the Tor, through country lanes, along ancient streets, down quiet roads and open spaces. Not one word from the life around me.

    Got home a few hours ago and, slowly, I started hearing my local birds, some of them becoming friends, slowly start speaking to me or rather, my consciousness began translating their chirps into communication (if it is them?).

    I am so aware how this sounds but to not report this feels wrong.

    While in Glastonbury I had 2 nights of power dreams. Ghosts, disembodied floating torsos, flying dreams, spirit guides, so much. That is one powerful point in geography.

    I’m now, today, slowly understanding all the bird chirps again, and yes, I keep an open mind but why would it start up again once back home and why so slowly? Input appreciated. Maybe I should re-read Will Henry’s The Language of the Birds.

    Visiting Wells Cathedral was terrific. The organ piped up while there and I mused on the angelic carvings, the suggestions that bird-like souls, (child-like radiant beings with wings), help us and, well, here I am with this post. Half narrative, half request..

    Ideas? Anyone?


    1. My only thought is the obvious one. While you were “in the zone” to be receptive to the power dreams, you were temporarily separated from the zone where you’d be in communication with your Glastonbury nature friends.

      This kinda feels like a normal way this might work. Your inner focus – taking place on unconscious levels – that allows you to tune in to the other dreamworld, could naturally take you away from tuning in to the here-now around you in Glastonbury. The level of focus required may simply be much more powerful than you could be consciously aware of, at the time.

      (Listening up to the first 15 minutes of this show so far, and it is wonderful! Can’t wait to see where this goes…)

      1. I appreciate that input Dougnicola, thank you. I know this sounds a bit daft but there’s a blackbird with a young one in the hedge outside my bedroom window. She keeps coming so close, even a neighbour commented on it.

        To have had a build up to ‘hearing birds talking’, to this closer perceived attempt at more contact, is just incredible. Of course, it may be coincidence or my imagination but I really do wonder, I honestly do. I hope I’m right because that’s just a wonderful thought.

        Just sitting down to listen to this week’s show now while taking breakfast. Yorkshire Tea and Crumpets, can’t beat Saturday mornings. Peace.

        1. Von Hausenberg, I recently tripped into this amusing little, tongue in cheek movement, Birds Aren’t Real, You’re not in the US so probably haven’t run into it yet but I suspect it will become a world wide phenomena.
          I couldn’t help but think of it when you described the bird communication and lack there of you’re experiencing. It’s silly but it appears our relationship with birds is becoming a “thing” for many people!

          1. SZ, I couldn’t access the article in spite of flushing cookies, using a VPN, changing macs.. NYTimes has that sewn up

            That said, I speak about such things with a sense of idealism but also aim to speak my mind & keep it simple. No, I don’t talk about this at work.

            I’ve never liked that old adage about ‘castings pearls before..’ as I think it possesses a crude, vulgar and ungrateful import. People are just people, scrambling through life, hopefully slowly changing for the better.

            I regularly upset people with my Conservative views but I’m not afraid to be here, acting as a breakwater for runaway emotions so often and so easily manipulated by cunning elites. I’m not an easy person to get on with or understand but I like listening to other people’s take on situations.

            I am not above myself or anyone else. Do I think the birds are talking to me? No, (but they might be?) rather, I think we can reach a centred point in consciousness that, whilst bathed in consciousness and nurtured by it, we can witness more going on around us in ways and degrees that aren’t obvious. I just love this engraving:


            Peace & thank you for listening.

  3. Wow! Thanks so much Whitley, Anne and Anne! As someone who just got licensed to practice holistic/naturopathic psychotherapy here in Europe (focused on Positive transcultural Psychotherapy founded by Nossrat Peseschkian) i feel like this show was made especially for me! Will definately contact her!

    1. I am so glad you connected with the message in this interview. Whitley and Anne Strieber are special souls. It is exciting to see others who work with experiencers or want to. I would be glad to talk to you further. I am updating my website today to add a contact form for anyone who wants resources and to be notified or provide training opportunities in the specialty of supporting anomalous experiencers. We can all work together to create healthy narratives about experiencers!!


  4. Wonderful. After last weeks show, I have been contemplating how we have progressed and I see we have brought in a lot of wisdom about life, the dead, the mystery, and our personal relationships in so many deeper and more expanded ways. I see the community of progressing humans is making much progress and are accepting being taught.

    1. Sunbow, that is beautifully expressed. What a wonderful contemplation on our evolution. The veil seems more transparent between the living, dead and NHEs and we can have those timeless relationships you describe – in deeper and more expanded ways.


    2. Sunbow, what a wonderful contemplation. There does seem to be a thinner veil and it seems the living, dead and NHEs are in relationships more naturally, as you said, in “deeper and more expanded ways.” Amazing.

  5. Validation. This conversation is yet another of many gifts, courtesy of ‘The Mystery’. Thank you.

  6. P.s. where are her white moth pics? Maybe i blinked and missed it, but it seems it was forgotten to add them to the video, and i can’t find any here either. When she’s talking about the one that landed on her husband’s cheek.

  7. Author

    I added one of Tony and the white moth to the show description. There should be two in the show itself. I’ll check tomorrow and if they’re not there, get them added in.

  8. Anne, whether you read these messages, or not, I’m sending you Light for your work with inspiration rising up from within through strong, clear calls to action (or inaction when called for). Thank you for the work you’ve been doing and the work you are embarking upon.

    You said one thing that mirrors what I’ve been saying for a long while now, but you used a short much snappier sentence: We need to live in the “we”.

    Yes! Let’s use our collective thoughts, actions, love and Light to transform this us-versus-them mentality that is holding us back. It’s literally diminishing our spirits and, through war, killing our physical biological avatars as well.

    1. Hi Glenn,

      I am reading all the comments. I love the light and hope expressed by Whitley and his listeners. It is all about the development of our consciousness and you are expressing this route perfectly – it happens in our “collective thoughts, actions, love and light to transform.” Beautiful.

      Your encouraging words are so touching to me and encouraging. I took many months to come out in public and am so glad I did. We all have important work to do together and this crowd seems ALL IN.

      So exciting!!


      1. Just a few months? Well done! It’s taken me a lifetime of working behind the scenes to start fully coming out of the spiritual closet. Each flower has its own growing season, right? 🙂

        I’m new to the Dreamland community, but I’m glad I subscribed. Not only are the longer interviews are more to my liking, so are the behind the scene conversations. Please reach out if I can help you in any way. You’ll feel it on a Divine Soul level.


  9. My Mother, Sister, father, Brother, neighbour, former friend, future friend, I found this interview so relaxing. Time whizzed by. Ann looked familar?

    George Harrison, one take, just like life:

    Love you all, as I love myself and all of my faults, for we are who we love failing to be and yet keep growing in love.


    1. Von Hausenberg,

      Thanks for listening. It is interesting how we can find each other familiar when we are in experiencer communities. I’m sure there are many reasons for that!!

      Thanks for that video, it was utterly delightful and had symbolism speaking to me. Cosmic Empire, indeed!

      Really love what you said, “I love myself and all of my faults, for we are who we love failing to be and yet keep growing in love.” this radical self-acceptance is the path!!!


      1. Bless your heart Ann. Just a rough and ready working guy Brit here, but open to discussion with work colleagues on life. It’ll be one in a hundred that get it but, every Sat morning, I pour my tea, crack my working guy Brit knuckles and listen..

        Joy in freedom, life in peace.


        1. you are delightful!! And, I am 70%+ Brit, doing my genealogy research in England a lot! Been enjoying heraldry, love the symbolism and history.

    2. Lovely video, Von Hausenberg! I love all the color and movement! Thank you for sharing!
      I’m enjoying all the comments about birds and their communications.
      I was listening to a mockingbird as the sun was rising this morning. It’s ability to mimic and vocalize surrounding sounds and even man made noises is legendary and I’m always delighted to hear its symphony. However, for me, I find it’s deep listening skills a source of awe and inspiration.
      Beyond the noise of this world, behind its veil as seen in your wonderful engraving, Anne’s white winged moth offers a deeper message, an expansive counterpart to our little woodwind friends. It all just makes me smile in wonder.

  10. What a brilliant definition of Joy is. Happiness is the new TV you wanted and Joy is holding the new baby.!
    Its so true !.

  11. VON HAUSENBERG: I am sooo with you in regards to, “The Language of the Birds.”

    Within Sufism, the language of birds is a mystical divine language. The Conference of the Birds is a mystical poem of 4647 verses by the 12th century Persian poet. In the Jerusalem Talmud , Solomon’s proverbial wisdom was due to his being granted understanding of the language of birds by God.

    In Norse mythology, the power to understand the language of the birds was a sign of great wisdom. The god Odin had two ravens, called Hugin and Munin, who flew around the world and told Odin what happened among mortal men.

    In Greek mythology – according to Apollonius Rhodius – the figurehead of Jason’s ship, the Argo, was built of oak from the sacred grove at Dodona and could speak the language of birds. Tiresias was also said to have been given the ability to understand the language of the birds by Athena. The language of birds in Greek mythology may be attained by magical means. Democritus, Anaximander, Apollonius of Tyana, Melampus, and Aesopus were all said to have understood the birds. The “birds” are also mentioned in Homer’s Odyssey: “Although I am no prophet really, and I do not know much about the meaning of birds. I tell you he will not long be absent from his dear native land, not if chains of iron hold him fast. He will find a way to get back, for he is never at a loss.”

    In the Quran, Suleiman (Solomon) and David are said to have been taught the language of the birds. Within Sufism, the language of birds is a mystical divine language. The Conference of the Birds is a mystical poem of 4647 verses by the 12th century Persian poet Attar of Nishapur.

    In the Jerusalem Talmud, Solomon’s proverbial wisdom was due to his being granted understanding of the language of birds by God. The concept is also known from many folk tales including Welsh, Russian, German, Estonian, Greek, Romany, where usually the protagonist is granted the gift of understanding the language of the birds either by some magical transformation or as a boon by the king of birds. The birds then inform or warn the hero about some danger or hidden treasure.

    1. That is a fascinating summary of the importance of birds in mystical communication across history. Thanks for laying that out!!

      BTW, I just bought a book about Norse Mythology yesterday. I was intrigued that it was written by Neil Gaiman. Haven’t read it yet.

    2. “The Language of the Birds” self-published by William Henry is an interesting, if not controversial book, in which he suggests the language in question is actually English.

      The interesting suggestion, from my point of view, is that the language of the birds is based on the premise that words of a similar sound have, on a hidden level, a similar meaning. He gives several examples in the book (none of which I can remember just now) but enough to make me think at the time, that there could be something to it.

    3. In the Volsung Saga, the hero Sigurd understands the language of birds all at once after having a lick of the roasted dragon’s heart (not just any dragon, but Fafnir). In some legends is said that humans used to know the language of animals when we were connected to nature, before we separated ourselves from the network of Life, but it is probably more of a psychic connection than words and their meaning because modern language is what probably separated us since it is the basis of the egoic operating system’s machinations for domination, etc. The unity/oneness/”we” has no room for a hero who is above all others but this is the narrative of the cultures of the world as we know it today.

  12. Author

    How very interesting, thank you! It takes absolute concentration and openness, I think. Living from one’s silence.

  13. What a beautiful episode, and the image above is just something else! :’)

  14. Good Lord what interesting comments. Working and travelling alone, maintaining a personal regime of cleanliness, devotion to consciousness with relaxation, I suppose I’m a kind of Hermit. Hopefully not a grumpy one that much.

    I bet every person here knows that ‘zone of peace’ we sometimes wake up within as we go about our daily business. It’s as if it descended from above, not the other way round.


    1. Talking about descending, or reflecting in this case…years ago, when I was fairly new to meditation, I thought I would have a go at repeating a mantra whilst in a relaxed state. The one I used in this instance was “God is Love” and I wasn’t at all sure it was working too well, as although I was thinking about the meaning of the words, I just seemed to be getting bored. Eventually though, when I had a feeling I needed to stop, I gave up repeating the phrase…and got a double surprise.

      Firstly, my mind chatter had completely stopped…replaced with utter, profound silence. Then gradually, that silence was replaced by the most intense feeling of peace and love I had ever felt. The only way I could explain it, is that it was just like the Universe had heard the words “God is Love” and knowingly reflected back at me the true meaning of those words, for me to bask in for a while. It was absolutely sublime…but of course it gradually faded, leaving me wondering what I had stumbled upon.

    2. Von Hausenberg, sherbet UFO, Whitley
      enjoyed the contemplative path you all followed
      the silence that surpasses understanding, then emerges into the bliss that reveals inner senses, knowing and connection…ah, that is simply what life is all about

  15. Author

    It’s not a secret but it is up to us to find it. The deeper you get into it, the more you see that it is something not only very extraordinary but also paradoxical. I would describe it as a fury of peace. At a certain point it becomes perfectly obvious why the universe was created in the first place.

    1. “Fury of peace”. Love it.

      Deafening silence
      Overwhelming nothing
      Omnipresent absence
      All knowing void
      Frantic stillness

  16. I’m not sure it goes in this chat, but I’ll share it here anyway…

    Just as i was settling in to meditate, a dark, wooden (teak I think), human shaped box, presented itself before me. It was like a hard diving suit or the silver robot Gort, from “the day the earth stood still”. The upper torso was very bulky and boxy, but the lower extremities were very thin and spindly, like the thinner branches of a tree. I studied it for a while, then drew it onto me and stepped inside.

    I had to push my own energy into it, to ‘finish’ it and make it fit my form better. As I did, it became more supple and able to move. It was like one of those corporate, gift sponges that expand when you put them in water. The extremities were thin and flexible, wheras the upper torso remained boxy and bulky.

    It was a protective, but enhancing space, somewhat how Iron-man’s suit is portrayed in the movies.

    I did my meditatioins inside the suit and was inspied to do things differently to my usual methods, which had powerful effects on me.

    Anyway, the suit is the thing I wanted to share. Anyone else had a “Wooden, Gort suit”? Lol

  17. Thank you for this interview. There are so many things I appreciated about it. I wanted to speak to the “forgetting how to shower or speak a language piece.” Like many experiencers on this site, some of my own experiences have been terrifying and all have been challenging. But one of the most important aspects of my experience was the visitors very clear and persistent work to help me directly experience my soul self. As a teenager I remember returning from encounters having fully lost my sense of self as an incarnation in time- my name, location, what day, year it was etc. It was a state of ultimate clarity and peace and slowly the life that I was/am living would return. I suspect that it was that “soul self” part of me that was interacting with them. At that time I simply had no knowledge or framework that allowed me to understand what was happening. It was inexplicable to me. Later in my thirties, I had an encounter where the visitors demonstrably confirmed the existence of my energy body and my ability to perceive through it in a way that I could no longer deny the validity of the experience (confirmed the next day by someone hundreds of miles away). Just a few years ago, a similar state opened up in full consciousness (both awareness of self and time with this larger beyond space/time awareness coexisting simultaneously) and remains one of the most astounding experiences of my life. I sense that this part of our mystifying relationship with these visitors is the heart of our interaction and would welcome deeper conversation on this topic.

    1. Is there anything you do to enhance that perception and if so, could we do it?

      1. yes, can we venture into that from our side without requiring them to open the door. Then things should get interesting…..

    2. Weberdance, Thanks for sharing your life experiences. You describe many states very well that Kurt Leland describes in Multidimensional Human. I have been learning more about his map of the subtle territory. It is certainly a lot for us to figure out when the experiences come first, through out life, before we know what they might be, if that can even be figured out. I agree that these states and energy bodies are where we interact with the visitors.
      As to Adam’s question, this book I mention has practices to enhance our abilities on these other planes.
      I greatly appreciate all the thoughtful comments and discussion here.

  18. For some reason, even after listening to this show 5 times, I’ve only just noticed the comment that Ann had Kali come to her.

    This, (I think, after all there are other multi armed deities), happened to me to about 12 or 13 years ago. I had a powerful dream one night where I woke up inside an Indian Hindu temple and there was a very hypnotic flute playing. It was the most incredible flute I’ve ever heard in my life.

    Suddenly I realised a woman was standing before me with four arms but she was not looking at me, she was looking down. Then the attraction was so strong that I embraced her.

    Waking out of this dream I became terrified and simply could not get back to sleep again for fear that I would not wake up. Even now, I can’t sleep with the light off, there is always a light on.

    I immediately posted on Unknown Country about what happened and later phoned into Coast to Coast and spoke with George Noory about it, but I’m not sure he knew what to make of it, bless him.

    The whole of my life I’ve a felt a strange mix of protected and under pressure to try harder. Someone is always there for us I reckon. The presence is a combination of love and divine necessity born of Universal understandings that most of the time seem out of reach to us all.

    Thank goodness getting older becomes a joy from this motherly presence guiding us.


    1. Hi Von Hausenberg,
      first of all, wow, 5 times through. Thank you.
      And yes, Kali came to me. I didn’t even know who it was when she told me her name. Had to look it up.
      Since then, I have developed a relationship with Kali and she is one of my main guides. She is the one who gave me all the tantric practices and has a big role in many aspects of my life. I never knew of inner guides before all this started, other than the general standard lines, we all have guides. To realize they are actually real has brought such power into these relationships. Having a powerful deity and enhancing my relationship through deity worship as described in Tibetan Buddhism has been amazing for me. I can’t imagine my life without her.
      It sounds like your experiences have also come into the divine presence. Wonderful.

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