Hawaii Island is a land of great spirit and mystery. Some people experience that spirit and mystery abstractly and for some, it is in their faces.

Meet “Isabella.” She experiences Hawaii both ways. We will speak with her briefly.

Then, microbiologist Tyler Kokjohn joins us to talk about what we just heard from “Isabella” before host Jeremy Vaeni reveals his new form of experiencer skepticism, as he launches into a tirade about the “Berkshire UFOs” episode of Netflix’s Unsolved Mysteries. You will not want to miss this one!

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  1. I know from experience that you can have life long out of normal experiences but it’s easier to talk about them at an advanced age……for all the obvious reasons.

  2. Loved this interview and the discussion that followed. While listening to Tyler Kokjohn talk about his profession as a microbiologist, this recent article came to mind.

    Uh-Oh, Scientists Used Human Genes to Make Monkey Brains Bigger

    “The scientists call these human-monkey hybrids “transgenic non-human primates,” which may be enough to ring the alarm of any doomsdayer. It certainly raises a lot of ethical questions when doing experiments on primates, let alone when introducing human genes into other animals.”

    “For this reason, the researchers limited their study to monkey fetuses, which were taken out by C-section after growing for 100 days. Allowing the experiment to go past the fetal phase and let the human gene-carrying monkeys to be born would be irresponsible and unethical, study coauthor Wieland Huttner said in the press release.”


    Maybe we as humankind are such an experiment???????  

  3. Some much needed levity! Thank you!

    As someone who has experienced a wide variety things in the paranormal realm, as well as ‘UFOs’, I appreciated the discussion with Isabella and Tyler. If you are a person that sees connections (while not always understanding the “why” of it all) this was an important discussion, party horns and all!

    Regarding TV shows that venture into odd realms, they beg for further exploration, but usually fall flat.These shows scratch the surface for viewers, while also doing a disservice to the experiencers and the topic(s) as a whole.
    They each follow a set formula that is almost laughable.

    For instance, there is one show called ‘Dead Files’ that touches on some pretty interesting stuff, and goes in directions that are pretty profound ( hauntings not just by the dead, but also from other dimensions ‘demons’, shadow people, and ‘ETs’, with a lot of psychology involving the people being’ haunted’). Unfortunately, each story needs a good two hours, but lasts only an hour, repeating scenes as ‘review’, with each episode including a sketch artist that does a rendering of what the psychic ‘sees,’ and the same words as the ones in EVERY episode: ” Is this what you saw?” Yes, that’s what I saw.” Yawn. After I had seen about 3 episodes, I lost interest. (However, my partner loves it, but at least asks for my take on what’s going on!)

    Years ago there was another show about ghost hunters in the UK that my son and I would watch for fun, that always had a woman with an annoying voice asking, “Can you just gives us a sign?” When she did get a ‘sign’, she would always ask, “Could you give us just one more sign?” I told my son that if I was a ghost, I would move on just to get away from being harassed by the living.

    And ‘The Secret of Skinwalker Ranch’ lasted two episodes for me…Nothing new, and I’ve learned more here at Unknown Country, from my own experiences and research, books, etc. than from anything on TV.

  4. Interesting podcast Jeremy, though found it hard to hear and understand Isabella. I have a question for you, knowing you are not an advocate for hypnosis. As an experiment, would you ever consider undergoing hypnosis while being recorded just to see how you respond and what comes forth from your subconscious? You could then rationally assess the process and whatever came forth. This of course assumes you could even be hypnotized.

    I loved the special effects you threw in just for fun.
    Rickety Man

    1. Author

      I’ve been under hypnosis twice–once for abductions and once in a group activity thingy in college for retrieving past lives. I wouldn’t do it again because I don’t want to be implanted with false memories I will swear are real. (If that’s possible with me. I knew what I was seeing wasn’t real both of those times–although with the abductions, I thought I was only under for a few minutes and it was at least an hour. Whatever I said all that time I do not know, but the “therapist” offered to see me for free, so it musta been good!

      I’ve tried contacting her in more recent years, but to no avail.

      1. Thanks for your reply Jeremy. I have posted previously that I have never undergone hypnosis, but I should clarify that. Many years ago I was referred to a psychologist to address work related stress. Way to much coffee, inadequate sleep, and no real exercise in my life at that time.
        I received instruction on breathing techniques and some physical exercises intended to help reduce the physical effects stress had on my body. After several appointments the psychologist had me go through a guided meditation. After achieving some level of relaxation I was instructed to visualize what he was describing. I reported that all I saw were shadows and diffuse shapes, which is what I normally see when I close my eyes. If an image does appear it is only fleeting. The psychologist speculated that my mind was not focusing and allowing images to appear and therefore I probably could not be hypnotized. My dream world is also usually a fuzzy and unfocused one. What amazes me is that when I have had flashbacks or dreams involving the visitors they have been in 3D Technicolor. Apparently only a small percentage of the population lacks the ability to visualize. My mother was one of those, though my father could look at an object, turn away, and accurately draw it from memory. My artwork never progressed beyond stick figures. Maybe that is why the Greys look so familiar. Guess I was AWOL when they were handing out visualization abilities.
        Rickety Man

  5. This interview dances on the line of disrespect of Isabella’s experience. I wonder if she would have given her permission when she recorded this if she had known it would be used to debunk her experience ……especially to bring up her age as a way to present her experience as an aspect of dementia.

    1. Author

      I don’t think we debunked her experiences. It’s the opposite. It’s “all of the above” may be true at the same time.

      I did not present her experiences as an aspect of dementia.

      Questioning is good, not bad. We’re adults. It’s time we try to parse out what’s what here so we know what we’re dealing with and when. (If that’s possible. Tyler thinks not. I’m still on the fence.)

  6. This guy got off the wrong exit twice and he assumes he was teleported, lol! I’m sorry but this story makes no sense, who goes to eat at a Chinese buffet by themselves? This was not a very interesting or stimulating episode.

    1. Author


      You’ve put this in the wrong thread, but A for effort. “I’m sorry but this story makes no sense, who goes to eat at a Chinese buffet by themselves?” is hilarious.

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