Over the past thirty years, I have often been the victim of social engineering. The first time I became aware of it was after the publication of my book Confirmation, which was critical of the Air Force’s handling of the UFO phenomenon, and what I viewed then, and continue to view, as an inappropriate adherence to secrecy. Just as the book was being published, a lie about me appeared in the Sunday supplement Parade Magazine, which was then a significant factor in the media.

This story claimed that I had discovered that I had temporal lobe epilepsy. It was wrong. When I called the magazine about it, an editor said that it had been given to them by friends of mine in the USAF.

Not exactly friends.

I was furious, and grew even more so as I came to understand the extent of social engineering that government elements engage in to shape the public perception of the UFO phenomenon and those of us who are dedicated to bringing it into the light and into focus, and to trap us in a ghetto so that the general public never so much as glimpses the truth that we represent. (And I don’t necessarily mean that aliens are here. I mean that a great unknown is here.)

What I have not understood until just this past year is what happens to the souls of people who participate in this sort of thing. Recently, though, I have begun to see into what we call the “afterlife” with a certain clarity. As this new vision matures, it has become frighteningly apparent that the Master of the Key’s explanation of sin is deeply true. It is, as he says, “denial of the right to thrive.”

Those who keep the secrets are guilty of this on a truly spectacular scale. What they do probably seems rather small to them, but it is an enormous evil, and thus dreadfully corrosive to the welfare of their souls.

By their actions, they diminish the lives of literally every other human being on this planet. Let me assure you, from the depths of my own soul that what happens to them after they leave the sacristy of the body is devastating. They don’t simply blow away like dust after death as do those who have not nurtured their souls. What happens to them is not like anything you might imagine, and is more terrible than you can imagine.

In the early nineties, two men menaced me with a device they should not have possessed—that no man has a right to possess, not without full understanding of what it does, and a deep respect for the holiness of every single human being. As I had been trained by the visitors to resist the effects of such things, they failed and ran off.

Last year, I saw one of them again. Now, this man is no longer in the physical. He’s dead. I saw him in his new state, and it was truly horrible. So horrible that I will not describe it. He was screaming “west death, west death” again and again, begging that what of him is eternal be launched on a current to oblivion so that his suffering will end.

I wept for him. I begged God to forgive him. But it’s not like that. God is not a judge. We are our own judges. He cannot release himself from what he cannot erase, and the damage he must have done in this world—very little to me personally—must be extraordinary.

The souls of the keepers of the secrets are all in jeopardy in the same way. Every one of them is in fantastic danger, from the dedicated young officer who is told that he is protecting the reputation of his military organization to the old pro who has long since been lost in eternal darkness.

What is most terrible about this is that they act on advice that seems to come from a higher source. But it doesn’t. Nothing that diminishes the right to thrive ever comes from anything except one’s own inner darkness.

As soon as I understood that I had encountered the visitors and knew a little of what they were, I also knew that I and all others in the same position have an absolute obligation. We cannot keep this secret, not any of us, and that includes social engineers who work for the government, and those outside of that community who are convinced to help them, or terrorized into doing so.   

It is a truly evil business, and everybody involved faces a dreadful outcome. I am so saddened that I have been the occasion for this.

Is there a dark force directing the actions of such people? Not at all. Life in the time stream is an extremely dangerous business. It’s a place of testing and as such full of soul traps.

Some people I work with have ended up in such a trap. This is not the first time this has happened. Their only escape is to tell the truth and damn the consequences—to tell the truth to the power that has captured them, and to us.

When Anne passed out of her body for the last time, I was granted the privilege of going with her a part of the way. In those moments, I tasted the joy of ascension, and I pray continuously that that every one of us will join her in it.

40 Comments

  1. Can our prayers help these
    Can our prayers help these depraved and suffering souls at all?

  2. Can our prayers help these
    Can our prayers help these depraved and suffering souls at all?

  3. Whitley, do you think some
    Whitley, do you think some souls are essentially consigned to permanent suffering after their death because of their mistakes in the physical, however large? That hell is real and more importantly and horrific, eternal? I find that unimaginably disturbing and frankly grotesquely unfair. Even the darkest souls have a glimmer of God in them as everything does…fragments of God. Surely there can be an atonement at some point in the life beyond this one? Surely? It makes me worry tremendously. I was almost hospitalized as a child Whitley for obsessions of dying and going to hell, eternal hell. I still have lingering neuroses from those days. While I’m a good person I feel by and large and have a great deal of love in me, far more so than hate or anger, I have done some seriously hurtful things in my life both intentional and not. Where’s the cutoff marker Whitley for eternal damnation? Should we all be worried of a hell that will never end? Perhaps we should just blow our brains out to preclude any future possible transgressions that will lead to eternal hell after physical death?—SJV

  4. Whitley, do you think some
    Whitley, do you think some souls are essentially consigned to permanent suffering after their death because of their mistakes in the physical, however large? That hell is real and more importantly and horrific, eternal? I find that unimaginably disturbing and frankly grotesquely unfair. Even the darkest souls have a glimmer of God in them as everything does…fragments of God. Surely there can be an atonement at some point in the life beyond this one? Surely? It makes me worry tremendously. I was almost hospitalized as a child Whitley for obsessions of dying and going to hell, eternal hell. I still have lingering neuroses from those days. While I’m a good person I feel by and large and have a great deal of love in me, far more so than hate or anger, I have done some seriously hurtful things in my life both intentional and not. Where’s the cutoff marker Whitley for eternal damnation? Should we all be worried of a hell that will never end? Perhaps we should just blow our brains out to preclude any future possible transgressions that will lead to eternal hell after physical death?—SJV

  5. I can only tell you what I’ve

    I can only tell you what I’ve seen. But there was never any indication of the presence of some sort of judge, at least not outside of the individual. It is not correct to think of these states that people create in themselves as “transgressions.” That implies a violation of some sort of moral authority beyond oneself.

    The pain the one I saw suffering was of his own making, and his own problem. I begged God that he be forgiven, not understanding that he has to find forgiveness in himself.

    It is certainly possible to help souls forgive themselves. At the Monroe Institute there is even a program that teaches how to do such things–to help them find forgiveness or, in many cases, to help them realize that they are dead. It is also possible to help them by righting wrongs for them that they have left behind and now cannot right. It takes patience and determination and intimate contact with desperate and distraught souls to do these things, but it can be done and if one is blessed with the opportunity, it seems to me a wonderful thing.

    There are those too agonized by the extent of the wrongs they have done to hear the voices calling to them with help. I know we don’t like to believe in hell anymore. I don’t believe in it myself. There is no vindictive deity judging us. People who have done dreadful things condemn themselves when they face the truth of their lives.

    The vast majority of us, though, live lives that we look back on with joy. They are revelatory, most lives, and, seen from outside the time stream, incredibly beautiful. Most people, just by instinct generated from the good within them, work hard to help themselves and others. Most lives succeed.

    It is hard to do enough evil to end up as a trapped soul. “Denial of the right to thrive” is a big thing. It takes effort. You don’t do it simply by yelling at your child, you do it by murdering an innocent or stealing somebody’s happiness or forcing them–as the secret keepers do–to live lives that are less than they should have been. Most of the things we have been taught to call sins don’t really matter all that much.

    1. Thank you for that very
      Thank you for that very cogent and nuanced response Whitley. I do have to ask though, is it possible do you think, or in your opinion and thoughs on what you have seen and felt, that even the most depraved souls can find the light and leave their particular hells in the life beyond this one? Or are they stuck in eternal suffering no matter what they do, no matter how much they’ve atoned by feeling agonizing remorse over their actions and begging to enter the lighter realities of the “afterlife,” after forgiving themselves and achieving a full moral inventory of themselves? Are there certain levels of “hell” that are eternal, the souls within them fettered completely, unable to escape, ever?

  6. I can only tell you what I’ve

    I can only tell you what I’ve seen. But there was never any indication of the presence of some sort of judge, at least not outside of the individual. It is not correct to think of these states that people create in themselves as “transgressions.” That implies a violation of some sort of moral authority beyond oneself.

    The pain the one I saw suffering was of his own making, and his own problem. I begged God that he be forgiven, not understanding that he has to find forgiveness in himself.

    It is certainly possible to help souls forgive themselves. At the Monroe Institute there is even a program that teaches how to do such things–to help them find forgiveness or, in many cases, to help them realize that they are dead. It is also possible to help them by righting wrongs for them that they have left behind and now cannot right. It takes patience and determination and intimate contact with desperate and distraught souls to do these things, but it can be done and if one is blessed with the opportunity, it seems to me a wonderful thing.

    There are those too agonized by the extent of the wrongs they have done to hear the voices calling to them with help. I know we don’t like to believe in hell anymore. I don’t believe in it myself. There is no vindictive deity judging us. People who have done dreadful things condemn themselves when they face the truth of their lives.

    The vast majority of us, though, live lives that we look back on with joy. They are revelatory, most lives, and, seen from outside the time stream, incredibly beautiful. Most people, just by instinct generated from the good within them, work hard to help themselves and others. Most lives succeed.

    It is hard to do enough evil to end up as a trapped soul. “Denial of the right to thrive” is a big thing. It takes effort. You don’t do it simply by yelling at your child, you do it by murdering an innocent or stealing somebody’s happiness or forcing them–as the secret keepers do–to live lives that are less than they should have been. Most of the things we have been taught to call sins don’t really matter all that much.

    1. Thank you for that very
      Thank you for that very cogent and nuanced response Whitley. I do have to ask though, is it possible do you think, or in your opinion and thoughs on what you have seen and felt, that even the most depraved souls can find the light and leave their particular hells in the life beyond this one? Or are they stuck in eternal suffering no matter what they do, no matter how much they’ve atoned by feeling agonizing remorse over their actions and begging to enter the lighter realities of the “afterlife,” after forgiving themselves and achieving a full moral inventory of themselves? Are there certain levels of “hell” that are eternal, the souls within them fettered completely, unable to escape, ever?

  7. In the of the Master of the
    In the of the Master of the Key, page 92 (2011). the answer to the question “What happened to the Nazis?” describes in detail what the death process might be like for those who have committed such a sin as ‘the denial of the right to thrive’.

    So, if this man you saw suffering so terribly had forgiven himself for the atrocities he committed while alive and dropped the baggage before his death, his experience after death might have been completely different and instead positive?

  8. In the of the Master of the
    In the of the Master of the Key, page 92 (2011). the answer to the question “What happened to the Nazis?” describes in detail what the death process might be like for those who have committed such a sin as ‘the denial of the right to thrive’.

    So, if this man you saw suffering so terribly had forgiven himself for the atrocities he committed while alive and dropped the baggage before his death, his experience after death might have been completely different and instead positive?

  9. I wonder if self forgiveness
    I wonder if self forgiveness is enough in a case like the Nazis? What about the suffering they have left behind in the lives of others, and those whose lives they destroyed? People can do evil that cannot be repaired. We all I hope that things will be all right in the end. But such evil is a really thorny problem.

  10. I wonder if self forgiveness
    I wonder if self forgiveness is enough in a case like the Nazis? What about the suffering they have left behind in the lives of others, and those whose lives they destroyed? People can do evil that cannot be repaired. We all I hope that things will be all right in the end. But such evil is a really thorny problem.

  11. I just don’t know.
    I

    I just don’t know.
    I sympathize strongly with Stephen Valadez when he stated in his first reply that “even the darkest of souls have a glimmer of God in them…”
    MotK stated that “All life is potentially ecstatic, no matter what suffering or sin is involved. All life, child.”
    However, if the tables were turned and I had done nothing but live my life as I would have others treat me, and Nazi thugs or secret agents behind the scenes de-railed my life as well as the lives of everyone else I knew and cared about, would I be so forgiving? I can say now I would try to be, but, well, I just don’t know unless actually faced with that situation.

    I wonder if the difficulty with this lies in the fact that we exist in a society ruled by blame.
    We simply can’t or don’t recognize how to reconcile until we can act from the stand point of compassion.

    Robert Anton Wilson wrote about his teenage daughter’s murder in “Cosmic Trigger
    vol. 1” and how he came to terms with it. He acted from a standpoint of understanding and compassion to get beyond the baggage that might have sunk his potential into oblivion.

  12. I just don’t know.
    I

    I just don’t know.
    I sympathize strongly with Stephen Valadez when he stated in his first reply that “even the darkest of souls have a glimmer of God in them…”
    MotK stated that “All life is potentially ecstatic, no matter what suffering or sin is involved. All life, child.”
    However, if the tables were turned and I had done nothing but live my life as I would have others treat me, and Nazi thugs or secret agents behind the scenes de-railed my life as well as the lives of everyone else I knew and cared about, would I be so forgiving? I can say now I would try to be, but, well, I just don’t know unless actually faced with that situation.

    I wonder if the difficulty with this lies in the fact that we exist in a society ruled by blame.
    We simply can’t or don’t recognize how to reconcile until we can act from the stand point of compassion.

    Robert Anton Wilson wrote about his teenage daughter’s murder in “Cosmic Trigger
    vol. 1” and how he came to terms with it. He acted from a standpoint of understanding and compassion to get beyond the baggage that might have sunk his potential into oblivion.

  13. Hello Whitley:
    Thank you for

    Hello Whitley:
    Thank you for this powerful testimony. Like you I went with my beloved on his final journey. I got to see him to the last door. It is one of my most cherished memories.

    Are there any plans for a Nashville festival? It would be good to convene the clan now.

  14. Hello Whitley:
    Thank you for

    Hello Whitley:
    Thank you for this powerful testimony. Like you I went with my beloved on his final journey. I got to see him to the last door. It is one of my most cherished memories.

    Are there any plans for a Nashville festival? It would be good to convene the clan now.

  15. I think we are here in this

    I think we are here in this state, embedded in the time stream where we we cannot see the future nor really understand the past, so that we can learn. So of course we make mistakes. But then how do we fix them?

    This is a big part of what we have to learn. Anne’s near death experience offered what has come to me to seem a defining wisdom: we clutch the burdens of life, and cannot move forward until we let them go. So how do we release them?

    Part of it is forgiving ourselves and others. Another part is finding and understanding the harms we have done, embracing the truth of that, and acting however we may to redress those harms. Often, that’s impossible, so then what?

    This is where the ancient path of surrender can help us. When Annie says “have joy” what she means is to come to an inner state where we give ourselves to our truth and to the love that surrounds us, and accept ourselves. Meister Eckhard calls it becoming “as a clear glass through which God can shine.”

  16. I think we are here in this

    I think we are here in this state, embedded in the time stream where we we cannot see the future nor really understand the past, so that we can learn. So of course we make mistakes. But then how do we fix them?

    This is a big part of what we have to learn. Anne’s near death experience offered what has come to me to seem a defining wisdom: we clutch the burdens of life, and cannot move forward until we let them go. So how do we release them?

    Part of it is forgiving ourselves and others. Another part is finding and understanding the harms we have done, embracing the truth of that, and acting however we may to redress those harms. Often, that’s impossible, so then what?

    This is where the ancient path of surrender can help us. When Annie says “have joy” what she means is to come to an inner state where we give ourselves to our truth and to the love that surrounds us, and accept ourselves. Meister Eckhard calls it becoming “as a clear glass through which God can shine.”

  17. I know all of this experience
    I know all of this experience is very real to Whitley, and I can’t say that he’s wrong. But I have my doubts. One source of doubt comes from the channeler Whitley has happily featured on on his show, Jamie Butler. Google “Jamie Butler Hitler” to find her session channeling Hitler, who only describes a period of darkness after his death for healing, and now expresses no remorse about his actions in life, which he describes as part of a soul contract that was ultimately for good. If Hitler’s actions can be just part of the plan, so to speak, then why not this guy (a much more minor player on the world stage) who Whitley felt assaulted by?

    Whitley seems to have developed a nicely coherent model of the larger universe, and writes about it beautifully. It also seems to stay pretty well in the lane of the Catholicism he was raised with, which is also understandable. Bad things happen to bad people. I don’t pretend to have any better answers, but I’m also resistant to take a journal posting like this as the absolute truth of the soul and the afterlife. I respect his point of view and try to learn from it, but my gut tells me not to take this one at face value.

  18. I know all of this experience
    I know all of this experience is very real to Whitley, and I can’t say that he’s wrong. But I have my doubts. One source of doubt comes from the channeler Whitley has happily featured on on his show, Jamie Butler. Google “Jamie Butler Hitler” to find her session channeling Hitler, who only describes a period of darkness after his death for healing, and now expresses no remorse about his actions in life, which he describes as part of a soul contract that was ultimately for good. If Hitler’s actions can be just part of the plan, so to speak, then why not this guy (a much more minor player on the world stage) who Whitley felt assaulted by?

    Whitley seems to have developed a nicely coherent model of the larger universe, and writes about it beautifully. It also seems to stay pretty well in the lane of the Catholicism he was raised with, which is also understandable. Bad things happen to bad people. I don’t pretend to have any better answers, but I’m also resistant to take a journal posting like this as the absolute truth of the soul and the afterlife. I respect his point of view and try to learn from it, but my gut tells me not to take this one at face value.

  19. Very interesting article and
    Very interesting article and thread. thank you all.

  20. Very interesting article and
    Very interesting article and thread. thank you all.

  21. I am not so sure that you

    I am not so sure that you understand my personal worldview, BobinNJ. It does reflect a Christian approach to compassion and love, but not a modern one, and not a Catholic one.

    And in regard to Dreamland guests, never assume that I agree or disagree with them. My show is upbeat in order to encourage them to express themselves fully. But the fact that I’ve had a guest on the program does not mean that I endorse what they say. My opinions I keep to myself.

    I might add that this journal entry is not just about something that somebody did to me personally. Somebody is keeping the single most important thing that has ever happened from the world to which it has happened. I have been harmed, yes, but that’s only one small incident in a much greater process. The context in which the harm is being done is enormous, and the wrong involved is immense.

  22. I am not so sure that you

    I am not so sure that you understand my personal worldview, BobinNJ. It does reflect a Christian approach to compassion and love, but not a modern one, and not a Catholic one.

    And in regard to Dreamland guests, never assume that I agree or disagree with them. My show is upbeat in order to encourage them to express themselves fully. But the fact that I’ve had a guest on the program does not mean that I endorse what they say. My opinions I keep to myself.

    I might add that this journal entry is not just about something that somebody did to me personally. Somebody is keeping the single most important thing that has ever happened from the world to which it has happened. I have been harmed, yes, but that’s only one small incident in a much greater process. The context in which the harm is being done is enormous, and the wrong involved is immense.

  23. I have engaged with friends
    I have engaged with friends and family on the other side through my meditations and through various dream states. I have also been told that we judge ourselves, it is that essence of god that resonates in all souls. Whilst some of my deceased friends may have lived lives that were far from perfect, they were not suffering, however I also know that none of them committed atrocities of the likes of the Nazis. So I am sure if you can steer your life away from pure evil you are on the right track. By virtue of today’s society, we all have our indiscretions, I work in finance and have to work with horrible and morally bankrupt people on a daily basis. I now actually work in a governance team that ensures those individuals do the right thing by investing peoples money in socially responsible activities with low risk to ensure better outcomes for investors and our environment, this change happened after my revelations. I can tell you that since my revelations, I have made a committed effort to help family, others and the environment. To all Dreamlanders – Have Joy – that is the way to Ecstasy!

  24. I have engaged with friends
    I have engaged with friends and family on the other side through my meditations and through various dream states. I have also been told that we judge ourselves, it is that essence of god that resonates in all souls. Whilst some of my deceased friends may have lived lives that were far from perfect, they were not suffering, however I also know that none of them committed atrocities of the likes of the Nazis. So I am sure if you can steer your life away from pure evil you are on the right track. By virtue of today’s society, we all have our indiscretions, I work in finance and have to work with horrible and morally bankrupt people on a daily basis. I now actually work in a governance team that ensures those individuals do the right thing by investing peoples money in socially responsible activities with low risk to ensure better outcomes for investors and our environment, this change happened after my revelations. I can tell you that since my revelations, I have made a committed effort to help family, others and the environment. To all Dreamlanders – Have Joy – that is the way to Ecstasy!

  25. This entry has created a bit
    This entry has created a bit of thought and controversy. Part of me wants to argue, that all souls have the possibility of redemption. Maybe it’s my Catholic upbringing, mixed up with a lot of other lines of thinking. But I realize Whitley is not saying that these souls cannot find redemption, I get that. Some of what was referenced involved(potentially) young men and women in our intelligence services who mean no evil at all, simply are trying to preserve what they feel is our freedom. I struggle that they could be so condemned(probably a poor choice of words I know).

    You know, this entry leads me to think that there could be a book or at least much larger commentary from Whitley. The entry is very powerful and thought provoking.

    Lou

  26. This entry has created a bit
    This entry has created a bit of thought and controversy. Part of me wants to argue, that all souls have the possibility of redemption. Maybe it’s my Catholic upbringing, mixed up with a lot of other lines of thinking. But I realize Whitley is not saying that these souls cannot find redemption, I get that. Some of what was referenced involved(potentially) young men and women in our intelligence services who mean no evil at all, simply are trying to preserve what they feel is our freedom. I struggle that they could be so condemned(probably a poor choice of words I know).

    You know, this entry leads me to think that there could be a book or at least much larger commentary from Whitley. The entry is very powerful and thought provoking.

    Lou

  27. Whitley, thank you for your
    Whitley, thank you for your additional comments.

    I think what I was trying to describe (maybe unsuccessfully) is this: even if your same experience of encountering souls happened to me, I would not trust my own perception 100%; this would include both doubts about the reality of what I experienced, and also about how my own perception is shaped by my physical mind. If you feel that your experiences bypass those possibilities and doubts, it would be fascinating to read more about your thoughts on that.

    As such, I was only saying that if the glimpses into the soul world still have to filter through our personalities, then our religious upbringing (I was also raised Catholic) might come into play. I realize from your writings that you are far from being a dogmatic Catholic, or for that matter anything remotely dogmatic about anything. Your free thinking and is no doubt a big factor in attracting so many of us to Dreamland and your work. When I referred to the “lane of Catholicism” above, that was mainly for the context of the suffering soul you wrote about; his horrible torment by his sins in life are not far off a “lake of fire” sermon, with a hellish existence so horrible you wouldn’t even describe its details. That’s how I took it, anyway. Contrasted to this other concept of reality I mentioned, not just from Jamie Butler but I’ve read in other places, along the lines that we provide something more like experiential stimulus/input to the universe (God?) that is part of the spectrum of all things being materialized. Here on earth we categorize good and evil, light and dark, but it might all just be how the physical world was intended to work in service to the larger soul-reality. I don’t really have any strong belief there either way, but as I mentioned I feel some doubt that we need to suffer or eternally regret our less compassionate moments in life during the afterlife, even if it sort of feels good to think that, for example, child molesters and dog beaters will get their comeuppance.

    Finally, you made a great point about having guests whose point of view you don’t necessarily endorse. I feel this positive aspect has been readily apparent over the years, and in part because of that neutrality I think you’re a marvelous interviewer. That said, I think the Jamie Butler interview was a bit different, in that while she was channeling Erik you were channeling Ann, with what seemed like a complete circle of contact and communication. As such, I certainly believed you believed that she’s the genuine article. I know that doesn’t mean you endorse the accuracy of something like her Hitler channeling session, but logic does sort of work here like 2+2=4, as opposed to saying her Erik sessions are genuine but the Hitler session was not.

    Anyway, this is a fascinating topic and I hope gets a lot more coverage within Dreamland and your future writings. I also hope you didn’t find my comments offensive.

    Regards,

    Bob

  28. Whitley, thank you for your
    Whitley, thank you for your additional comments.

    I think what I was trying to describe (maybe unsuccessfully) is this: even if your same experience of encountering souls happened to me, I would not trust my own perception 100%; this would include both doubts about the reality of what I experienced, and also about how my own perception is shaped by my physical mind. If you feel that your experiences bypass those possibilities and doubts, it would be fascinating to read more about your thoughts on that.

    As such, I was only saying that if the glimpses into the soul world still have to filter through our personalities, then our religious upbringing (I was also raised Catholic) might come into play. I realize from your writings that you are far from being a dogmatic Catholic, or for that matter anything remotely dogmatic about anything. Your free thinking and is no doubt a big factor in attracting so many of us to Dreamland and your work. When I referred to the “lane of Catholicism” above, that was mainly for the context of the suffering soul you wrote about; his horrible torment by his sins in life are not far off a “lake of fire” sermon, with a hellish existence so horrible you wouldn’t even describe its details. That’s how I took it, anyway. Contrasted to this other concept of reality I mentioned, not just from Jamie Butler but I’ve read in other places, along the lines that we provide something more like experiential stimulus/input to the universe (God?) that is part of the spectrum of all things being materialized. Here on earth we categorize good and evil, light and dark, but it might all just be how the physical world was intended to work in service to the larger soul-reality. I don’t really have any strong belief there either way, but as I mentioned I feel some doubt that we need to suffer or eternally regret our less compassionate moments in life during the afterlife, even if it sort of feels good to think that, for example, child molesters and dog beaters will get their comeuppance.

    Finally, you made a great point about having guests whose point of view you don’t necessarily endorse. I feel this positive aspect has been readily apparent over the years, and in part because of that neutrality I think you’re a marvelous interviewer. That said, I think the Jamie Butler interview was a bit different, in that while she was channeling Erik you were channeling Ann, with what seemed like a complete circle of contact and communication. As such, I certainly believed you believed that she’s the genuine article. I know that doesn’t mean you endorse the accuracy of something like her Hitler channeling session, but logic does sort of work here like 2+2=4, as opposed to saying her Erik sessions are genuine but the Hitler session was not.

    Anyway, this is a fascinating topic and I hope gets a lot more coverage within Dreamland and your future writings. I also hope you didn’t find my comments offensive.

    Regards,

    Bob

  29. My central point is: Are all
    My central point is: Are all souls ultimately redeemable, or are some through their actions on whatever planes of existence including this one (our three-four dimensional one) fodder for nothingness or a hell (two different things, certainly)? And if so, how depraved must a soul be, how “heavy,” for it to end up in one of those ghastly places of being (or non-being)? Where’s the cutoff point? Where’s the line? Where’s the marker? Does only a Ted Bundy or a Nazi high ranking officer merit those horrid finalities? Or does it extend to someone that is cruel to their children, dim in their expression of love (but still expressing it, but only rarely), a mostly cold, unfeeling human being but otherwise a regular person? Where’s the threshold? You get my point here I assume.

    From everything I’ve read, encountered, and studied outside of organized religion, which I very much discount for several reasons I won’t go into here, and excepting the Master of the Key’s statements and Whitley’s statements, I find uniformly that while there are in fact hellish regions of the “afterlife,” they are not eternal by our definitions and all souls are offered a way out to lighter and more positive states and places of being. And in no way at all are souls destroyed. EVER. If indeed we all have a spark of God in us, and God is the fully loving, in fact pure love itself, substrate upon which the firmament exists and rests, then surely the mechanics of the firmamant would not be that wretchedly cruel and draconian.—SJV

  30. My central point is: Are all
    My central point is: Are all souls ultimately redeemable, or are some through their actions on whatever planes of existence including this one (our three-four dimensional one) fodder for nothingness or a hell (two different things, certainly)? And if so, how depraved must a soul be, how “heavy,” for it to end up in one of those ghastly places of being (or non-being)? Where’s the cutoff point? Where’s the line? Where’s the marker? Does only a Ted Bundy or a Nazi high ranking officer merit those horrid finalities? Or does it extend to someone that is cruel to their children, dim in their expression of love (but still expressing it, but only rarely), a mostly cold, unfeeling human being but otherwise a regular person? Where’s the threshold? You get my point here I assume.

    From everything I’ve read, encountered, and studied outside of organized religion, which I very much discount for several reasons I won’t go into here, and excepting the Master of the Key’s statements and Whitley’s statements, I find uniformly that while there are in fact hellish regions of the “afterlife,” they are not eternal by our definitions and all souls are offered a way out to lighter and more positive states and places of being. And in no way at all are souls destroyed. EVER. If indeed we all have a spark of God in us, and God is the fully loving, in fact pure love itself, substrate upon which the firmament exists and rests, then surely the mechanics of the firmamant would not be that wretchedly cruel and draconian.—SJV

  31. On the face of it, even the
    On the face of it, even the concept of ‘sin’ comes from a place of judgment, and this is where I have taken another step back to come to terms with reality. If everything is an illusion (even death, according to Buddhist philosophy) then what we end up with in personalities like Hitler is just another illusion, which explains Ms. Butler’s channeling that Hitler went through a period of darkness after death, but then went on to express no remorse for his deeds in life. Even living in the ‘time stream’ is an illusion, so we really have no way of understanding ‘how long’ Hitler was in darkness before he reached a state of no judgment about himself. This is the kind of thing that can truly mess with your mind…

    To be clear, we should all strive each and every moment to be as compassionate as possible with everything and everyone. We should not condone hate or any thoughts or actions that do harm to others. At the same time, we are not here to judge or place blame on others who follow paths of harm to others. Yet, in this reality of life, we still must have laws, judgments, and punishment for those that live their lives solely in their own best interests, in order to protect the lives and well-being of others.

    Quite the conundrum, huh?

  32. On the face of it, even the
    On the face of it, even the concept of ‘sin’ comes from a place of judgment, and this is where I have taken another step back to come to terms with reality. If everything is an illusion (even death, according to Buddhist philosophy) then what we end up with in personalities like Hitler is just another illusion, which explains Ms. Butler’s channeling that Hitler went through a period of darkness after death, but then went on to express no remorse for his deeds in life. Even living in the ‘time stream’ is an illusion, so we really have no way of understanding ‘how long’ Hitler was in darkness before he reached a state of no judgment about himself. This is the kind of thing that can truly mess with your mind…

    To be clear, we should all strive each and every moment to be as compassionate as possible with everything and everyone. We should not condone hate or any thoughts or actions that do harm to others. At the same time, we are not here to judge or place blame on others who follow paths of harm to others. Yet, in this reality of life, we still must have laws, judgments, and punishment for those that live their lives solely in their own best interests, in order to protect the lives and well-being of others.

    Quite the conundrum, huh?

  33. Life choices add the weight

    Life choices add the weight of regret or the lightness of joy to souls, and all the myriad shadings in between. I have observed this both in the physical and in the afterlife. We are not judged by a vengeful god. We reflect both the weight and lightness of our lives after we die. Is there forgiveness in that state? Sure, if we can find it in the complex balance of our lives as we have lived them. We cannot walk away from what we made of our souls in this life. It’s why we came.

  34. Life choices add the weight

    Life choices add the weight of regret or the lightness of joy to souls, and all the myriad shadings in between. I have observed this both in the physical and in the afterlife. We are not judged by a vengeful god. We reflect both the weight and lightness of our lives after we die. Is there forgiveness in that state? Sure, if we can find it in the complex balance of our lives as we have lived them. We cannot walk away from what we made of our souls in this life. It’s why we came.

  35. Powerful! Lots of thought in
    Powerful! Lots of thought in response. All the shows and this journey… are so seamlessly connecting … perhaps raising us to more refined thought process?… Thanks, Whitley and all.

  36. Powerful! Lots of thought in
    Powerful! Lots of thought in response. All the shows and this journey… are so seamlessly connecting … perhaps raising us to more refined thought process?… Thanks, Whitley and all.

  37. I’ve often wondered what the
    I’ve often wondered what the Master of the Key meant about the nazis. For example the soldier taking part in the gas chambers. Again your looking at a man who brought into the lies. He didn’t have all the facts before him. The behind the scenes complexities of both world wars, few were privy to…. and still are. I had some friends once that fled Europe, a friend of theirs was in a camp just before the war ended. He saw a woman naked thrown onto a razor wire fence then with a machete the soldiers opened her from the legs up.

    I think i was about 11 years old when i first heard this… and i was shocked as to what could make people into animals. How could they see this woman as less than human. These men were lied to and they had no basis to see good from evil. Have they, from that day to this been born again and lived through the torment as a serial killer slices them up ? Wouldn’t this experience then give them contrast to their deed long ago. Would they do it again ? This state of in between lives probably would give them the grounding of why it was so wrong, then they must live the how.. then they know. But of the people that generated this lie that gave them this circumstance and choice to play out this scene… have they not committed a far worse crime. What happens to them ?

  38. I’ve often wondered what the
    I’ve often wondered what the Master of the Key meant about the nazis. For example the soldier taking part in the gas chambers. Again your looking at a man who brought into the lies. He didn’t have all the facts before him. The behind the scenes complexities of both world wars, few were privy to…. and still are. I had some friends once that fled Europe, a friend of theirs was in a camp just before the war ended. He saw a woman naked thrown onto a razor wire fence then with a machete the soldiers opened her from the legs up.

    I think i was about 11 years old when i first heard this… and i was shocked as to what could make people into animals. How could they see this woman as less than human. These men were lied to and they had no basis to see good from evil. Have they, from that day to this been born again and lived through the torment as a serial killer slices them up ? Wouldn’t this experience then give them contrast to their deed long ago. Would they do it again ? This state of in between lives probably would give them the grounding of why it was so wrong, then they must live the how.. then they know. But of the people that generated this lie that gave them this circumstance and choice to play out this scene… have they not committed a far worse crime. What happens to them ?

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