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Have you ever closed your eyes and seen someone staring back at you? That is the leaping off point for this week’s episode with actor/musician Joe Gooch and author Verna Lee Hutton Ely.

From Whitley Strieber: I have had this happen to me a lot. Often, it’s the same person. He’s a young man who looks vaguely military.

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  1. Jeremy, regarding your
    Jeremy, regarding your question about why the materialist perspective persists in light of what appears to be scientific support of the highly strange, I think I touched on the subject in last weeks comments section when I replied to JahaRa’s perception of a societal pogrom against experiencers. I won’t repeat the whole post here but I’ll try to pull the pertinent parts over, and add to it as I see fit.

    It’s true that the materialist perspective is antithetical to the highly strange. I suppose it must be in order for faith in the materialistic nature of reality to be complete, and it seems to me that scientific progress is as much dependent on faith as any other adventure into the unknown, whether that unknown is based on the world of matter or…not. In short, I think our adventure (or misadventure) into materialistic exclusivity is or has been a necessary but temporary step for humanity to take, and the reason for its persistence is the fact of its being faith-based at its root.

    I think its important to remember that before the reign of science acceptance of the paranormal was widespread, but just as if not more so misunderstood than it is now. In short, there was belief but it was not accompanied by any sort of drive towards understanding, but was rather more an ignorant and helpless acceptance, which led to judgements regarding it being placed at the feet of emotion instead of reason, and left to unqualified and self-interested Religion for verdict and sentence, and I needn’t remind anyone that the sentence was often far worse than the scoffing and defaming that remains today.

    What science gained by rejecting the unfounded superstition and judgement of religion is the right for humanity to place Truth and knowledge over blind faith and superstition. What it lost by using materialism as its foundation is an intellectual but at least no longer a moral rejection of the paranormal.

    But science has served its purpose in awakening the mind to curiosity and the quest for and the right to know the truth, and in fact it no longer sits on the throne of certainty and absolute authority it once did, but the quest for truth remains to us as its parting gift. I’m not saying I think scientific knowledge will disappear, but its authority will fade as the truth and our quest for the truth carry us beyond it and the materialism to which it is bound.

  2. Thank you for another great
    Thank you for another great episode. In response to Lee’s request for feedback from people who’ve had similar experiences, I can say I’ve experienced nearly all of the “people behind our eyes” variations described. I see something like a Grey regularly. I see the faces of peoples, sometimes many in succession, and of animals. I’ve never recognized any of them. Usually they seem benign, sometimes smiling, but occasionally there will be one that is frighteningly forceful and hostile. These ones appear closer, like they are trying to intrude upon me. I also see symbols, especially pentagrams (upright, not inverted) and the six-pointed Star of David, as well as spirals. I have experienced many “downloads” of text as well, although I see these in my mind’s eye, somewhere higher up in my brain, rather than with my eyes. These have happened both while dreaming, and awake.

    1. AM, Thank-you for your
      AM, Thank-you for your feedback. We embolden and strengthen each other through sharing and understanding.

  3. I have seen humans, animals,
    I have seen humans, animals, and other beings looking back at me when I’ve closed my eyes. My deep feeling is that they are all other aspects of myself. While occasionally these faces have startled me, I can’t say that they have scared me ( Curiosity is more like it). Honestly, I’ve wondered for years why I have had so many strange experiences with little fear. Off the top of my head, I can only think of two incidents that gave me what I would describe as true fear, and one of them was the incident as child when I saw my sister as the rabbit (No need to rehash that one!).

    Joe, I have seen the grid pattern. It was about 10 years ago, just prior to my beginning my meditation. It was a teal green color, and I even saw my hand, briefly, as part of that grid.

    Jeremy: Seeing the beings and hearing, “You’re not supposed to here.” I am going to go out on limb here, and just state that there is a very good reason why you were not supposed to be there. You weren’t supposed to ‘be there’ because you probably were not ready for that particular experience (Maybe you stumbled through into another reality before being prepared). Could that be the key to whether or not we experience fear during our unusual experiences?

    Lee, I have seen the ‘heaven hole’, but not in the same way that you experienced it. Interestingly, it involved my son, as did your experience. It was Christmas Day when my older son was about 23 years old. He was going through a challenging time in his life, and we took a long walk so that we could have a talk. About a half mile from my home, I looked up and saw an actual doorway in the sky…and it glowed. My son was deep into the discussion regarding his personal issues, and I did not feel right interrupting him to point out the doorway. So, I noticed it, but then began focusing again on listening to my son. After all these years, I should probably go back and ask him if he remembers anything strange that happened during that talk!

    …And just this morning I awoke and remembered a dream of another life. Without going into detail, part of the dream involved something that I thought had been stolen. After I went downstairs and told my sweetheart about the dream, he told me how he had awakened earlier this morning, and went out to check on the newspaper, only to discover that his car was in the driveway with a door left ajar, and it was obvious that someone had moved some things around in his car…however, nothing was actually stolen. In my dream, nothing had actually been stolen either.

  4. My 2nd attempt since 03/23 I
    My 2nd attempt since 03/23 I got rejected…bah.
    Hey Jeremy,
    I really enjoyed your roundtable-esque chat. Made it more fun.
    To respond to Verna Lee’s request…..(Ive lost track of the items in my 1st post)

    Yes, I like mantis.. I find myself helping them when I can.
    Yes, I have heard my name called twice. 1st, at 6 years old at night in my room.
    2nd, as a teen outside washing windows at a fast food place.
    Yes, ive seen the //// before a migraine. They say it has to do with the bloodflow near some optic thing in the brain. I “think” its fairly common.
    Yes, from the peripheral view, Ive seen random people doing things …like playing in a park. It was like a reflection in glass. OR… like watching several tv shows at once overlaid on the same screen.
    Yes, Ive run thru what appeared to be solid objects twice…a deer laying in the road and a moving white van. These may have been time shifts.
    Yes, i have heard a tone in my head since childhood. It can be left sine or right, but never both. It is NOT constant. It just happens sometimes. Cant say weekly or monthly. I dont track it.
    Yes, Ive seen an ivory colored light in the sky. It turned and shot off to the north, followed minutes later by 2 F16s.
    Yes, Ive met a nature spirit, “face to face” as it were in a cabin in the colorado mountains. It came in and my knees started screaming.
    Yes, Ive heard fairy music(same place) that sounded like very tiny wind chimes.

    No, Ive never seen fairies.
    No, i have not seen the other me that I can discern other than I dont look as i did in my youth.
    Ive been told most of my life that im weird, but for me its just life- like leaves on a tree.
    Theres a lot more stuff but I dont have the time to type it all. im sure many listeners have have many more dramatic incidents than I.. simple fact, its part of life. Clamping your eyes shut and announcing, “THERE IS NO COLOR!” is a matter of opinion then isnt it.
    rock on,

    1. HG- Great list. You are
      HG- Great list. You are weird… and that is wonderful. As soon as we all realize it’s OK to share our experiences beyond the norm the more norm they become and the more open we are to share. Keep listening, sharing and encouraging Jeremy.
      Best to you – Lee

  5. I’ve heard my name called
    I’ve heard my name called loudly and urgently, and as Joe Gooch mentioned, just at the transition from sleeping to waking. As a theory, perhaps its something from the realm we were while sleeping ‘calling us back’ as we leave, or our minds interpretation of an effort to bridge the two worlds.

    Seemingly related, I’ve heard a loud ‘crash’ upon awakening that cannot be accounted for in the outer environment.

  6. I am particularly fascinated
    I am particularly fascinated by this ‘Behind the eyelids’ phenomenon. In fact, I’ve mentioned it in a previous post on your show about anti-depressants. The phenomenon is very intriguing and I have experienced some really astonishing scenes. Here’s what I know so far:

    These visualizations are not the same as what we see in our ‘mind’s-eye’, this is imagination. Rather when you are going to sleep try to close your eyes and just observe, mostly you will see black at first, but after a few minutes shapes appear (in my experience they seem to be swirling Dim-Yellow forms). These are not very well focused but just try to look at them. Take the perspective of simply looking out a window when you are awake and see what presents itself. Sort of like watching traffic go by on a busy street.

    When I do this, many times suddenly a full-color scene will appear and amazingly, if I stay relaxed, I will be able to actually move my attention around the scene and examine various parts of it without disturbing anything that’s going on or collapsing the whole vision.

    I think that this is actually being generated by the Pineal gland (our third eye) and I hope there may be some folks who would like to continue this discussion.

    Also, I take anti-depressants regularly and they definitely interfere or stop this experience.

  7. Rubbing your eyelids causes
    Rubbing your eyelids causes an effect called phosphenes, while they are very interesting, I’ve heard that if you do this too long it is actually cutting off the blood supply to your eyes so don’t do it too much. But yes, it is much like this.

  8. I loved your tirade about
    I loved your tirade about stubbing your toe, Jeremy. It really does happen, but it’s not random. I can attest to that… I fell down 6 concrete icy steps and landed flat on my back on the street with my head laying on the curb, like a pillow.

    When I got up, I felt great! No bruises, pain, paralysis (gaahh)… not a thing. So I sat up, and then stood up, and thought “How the hell did that just happen?”

    I did some quick math, and I should’ve been dead –broken neck …
    But, literately I felt like I just got out of bed! So yeah, sometimes that happens.

    But I really don’t think it’s random.

    1. I interpret Jeremy’s
      I interpret Jeremy’s statement that it’s random only because it occurs in this world, and for so much that occurs here, random is the only explanation, but it comes from a world where ‘random’ does not even exist. Chance is often just a veil.

  9. Thank you for another
    Thank you for another fascinating episode. I would hear my name being called all the time as a child, my sister too. But we would only hear our own names – never each other’s. It would be a loud whisper if that makes sense – originating from the outside, not from/in the mind. I can’t say for sure if it sounded male/female- maybe neutral with a male leaning… it has been years since I have had the experience.
    As for seeing things behind the eyes – I have never seen faces. That seems extraordinary! What I have experienced has more been shapes and swirls, like Cyan Aura describes. Only the color palette I saw was rich and varied – jewel tones mostly against a black background. I could sometimes will it to change from say violet to green, and change shapes, and there was depth to the space and to the shapes.
    But all of this stopped after I had an MRI/MRA. Immediately after the dye was injected in me the colors went away. Everything was dull and flat. After I was pulled out of the machine I remember asking the technicians, “when am I going to get my colors back?” – to which there was no real reply, just some strange looks. That was probably seven years ago… I am only just now able to see faint colors, with much effort and searching -but it is not the same.
    I want my colors back! 🙂

    1. That’s unfortunate deeddee13.
      That’s unfortunate deeddee13. Have you looked into healing herbs? Have you looked into what’s in that dye? That might give you a clue where to look to counter its effects. Perhaps Yogic breathing techniques, fasting or exercise. Something to get your system operating at an above-normal level.

  10. Sometimes when I am just
    Sometimes when I am just about to go to sleep and my eyes are closed I can see faces looking at me. If I tell the face to change, it does. If I relax and request that it gets closer it does that too. I can even see their lips are moving. Then I drift off to sleep. It’s unnerving but fascinating all at the same time.

    1. What do your faces look like?
      What do your faces look like? From what you’ve said maybe they are more human like then what I see. Do you see the same one’s over and over or are they always different?
      Thanks for sharing- Lee

  11. Another very interesting
    Another very interesting conversation.

    I have heard my name called since I was very young, and I stlll hear it occasionally. Once a couple of years after my mother passed I heard her say “I love you.” It was her voice, which I never heard in my head like that before. I used to have dreams that my dead relatives would visit. Once my grandmother woke me up saying “Do the dishes” (she had been dead for more than a decade). It was midnight but I got up and did the dishes. 🙂

    The faces I see sometimes when I close my eyes are sometimes similar to the greys, sometimes regular looking people and sometimes very strange. I usually either open my eyes or ask them what they want. They never stay long enough for me to get whether they are trying to communicate anything.

    1. Thanks for taking time to
      Thanks for taking time to share this. The part about hearing your grandmother say “Do the dishes” reminded me of an experience I had. Sometime after my father passed on a storm broke a large branch off a big old willow at Twin Willows and it fell on a small barn Dad had built years ago. The rafters in the barn were used as storage for keepsakes my folks had gathered through the years. My mom worried her stuff was getting wet so my wonderful, non-handyman, teacher, husband and I drove to the farm to see what we could do. We bought the boards and shingles on the way there and were feeling pretty confident until we climbed atop the ladders to have a look. It was so daunting I felt my knees get weak. I said under my breath, “Oh dad I, wish you were here to tell us what to do.” I heard him say just as clear as if he were standing on the ladder with me. “You just do it.”
      By the way … No Jeremy, I have never owned a pair of Niki’s.

  12. You thought you needed
    You thought you needed instruction. Instead he gave you confidence, not only in the task at hand, but in his love for you, and its power.

  13. They are just liquid,
    They are just liquid, changing faces that are there and they respond to my thoughts. If I say in my mind “get scary, or evil looking it does it”. It’s kind of like painting images with your mind’s eye. It’s got to be neurological or your mind drifting off into sleep. Weird, I know but it doesn’t happen all of the time. Also I can see sometimes blood pulsing thru my eyes when my eyes are closed. There’s a rhythm.

  14. I’ve seen many faces over the
    I’ve seen many faces over the course of my life when I’ve been in bed. I usually chalked them up to hypnopompic/hypnagogic trances, but I’ve often wondered if it was more than that. I never really considered seeing these beings through my eyes but through my “third eye.” One in particular was quite interesting. While asleep, I awoke to find something opening up right in front of me, like an aperture, and a pair of humanoids appeared, staring right at me. What is this all about? It’s hard for me to classify all this as just “imagination.” What the hell is imagination anyway?

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