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We’ve concentrated quite a bit on who the experiencers of Visitor phenomena are. Now it’s time to take that depth of vision and apply it to the Visitors themselves. Who might they be? How might they view the world? And are we pulling them into existence by perceiving them, or do both Visitor and Human existences depend upon mutual perception? These questions and more on this paradigm-shattering episode!


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  1. Jeremy, they don’t define the
    Jeremy, they don’t define the state of non duality because as you’ve said many times you can’t describe it in language because it is outside of language. In Tibetan Bon Dzogchen tradition it is about the direct experience of that state which is the true nature of our consciousness. The words they use to describe it are like a stepping stones that lead you to that experience but are not defining the experience.

    Your reservations on having a round table about non dual experiences fits right in with that. A little like the first rule of fight club only regarding the non dual nature of consciousness if you try to describe it that’s not what it is. I’m sure others have been much more eloquent on this topic than I can be.

    Christopher Rosing

    1. I think you were eloquent.
      I think you were eloquent. Cosmic Librarian speaks the language and she was impressed. I’m just not proficient in that language is all. It’s really up to the websites to explain their terminology, or else why have an explanation in the first place? Just have an insider baseball site.

      I would like to do an episode on various meditations, what happens, the relationship with the paranormal, and so forth. Would you consider coming on?

  2. I remember a while back
    I remember a while back listening to one of the subscriber specials, where Whitley was talking about 3:14 and ripples expanding out from a stone dropped into a pond. In that episode I commented that Whitley stopped talking at exactly 31.42, which are the numbers associated with pi to 4 significant figures (3.142)…Interestingly enough, this weeks subcriber version of ‘The Experience’ inexplicably stopped for me whilst I was listening to it at 31.4…maybe another pi, or circle reference? Anyway, maybe I will go back to that time and have a closer listen.

  3. The idea that the abduction
    The idea that the abduction experience could be a charade, perhaps to push the subject through a mini ‘Hero’s Journey’ is an interesting one…but if this is some kind of forced evolution, I have to wonder why the directors of this play care…what is the evolution of our souls to them? Why does a gardener expend the effort in planting a flower? Is it to help the flower…or is it to cultivate beauty for beauty’s sake? The latter sounds more plausible to me.

  4. Great show. Great thoughts.
    Great show. Great thoughts. Nice to listen to.

  5. Ok, here we go… I’ve
    Ok, here we go… I’ve mentioned a new book before that should probably be on everyone’s book shelf if you are an experiencer, abductee, channeler, have had an OBE, an NDE or have been through any other ‘what-the-hell’ kind of event that left you scratching your head in puzzlement. In July, The Edgar Mitchell Foundation for Research into Extraterrestrial and Extraordinary Experiences (FREE) published ‘Beyond UFOs-The Science of Consciousness and Contact with Non Human Intelligence, Volume I. This book is in no way a light read and it has no answers, but it asks the right questions and it may also but it may be on the right track. Here is one paragraph from the book to give you a taste, and hopefully, pique your interest into taking a look at it:

    “The members of the FREE Board of Directors, including the late Dr. Edgar Mitchell, hypothesize that all of the ‘Contact Modalities’ might actually be one phenomenon which should NOT (emphasis is mine) be studied as separate phenomena, which is the modus operandi of the research organizations that are in these fields. FREE co-founders, Dr. Edgar Mitchell, Dr. Rudy Schild, Mary Rodwell and all of FREE’s Board of Directors believe that this limited “stove pipe” approach does not recognize the numerous commonalities shared by each of these Contact Modalities—commonalities which have yet to be academically researched in any systemic format.”

    So, what does FREE consider ‘Contact Modalities’? The “Contact Modalities” include contact via: Near Death Experiences (NDEs), Out of Body Experiences (OBEs), UFO visitations, Channeling, Mystical Meditation, Remote Viewing, Lucid Dreams, Shamanic Hallucinogenic Experiences, etc.

    Now we are getting somewhere! 🙂

    I have been a ‘ researcher’ of all this stuff since I was kid and questioned my own weird ‘stuff’. The bunny was the tip of the iceberg…and, by the way, I also recently found out that rabbit is a symbol in alchemy. More importantly, the rabbit is the active side of alchemy. Active means work, practice, study, and research for me. I haven’t published a book or written a paper, but I have been busy with all of this for a long time, through two careers, two marriages, raising kids—and having experiences. I haven’t just seen a strange light in the sky or heard the voice of my dead friend and thought, “ Oh, that’s interesting.”, then forgot about it. I want to know what the heck is going on with everything on as many levels as possible. How I got this mind and crazy curiosity is anyone’s guess, and the only thing I am sure of is that my heart has grown along with it all too. If I have ever experienced a sense of ‘oneness’ it was so brief that it’s hardly worth mentioning. I try to live my life with appreciation, while also being human and also experiencing the occasional sense of annoyance. While feeling ‘oneness’ is elusive, I do totally get the connectedness of all things. Baby steps…

    In 1966 when I was 13 years old, I remember reading an article in the Los Angeles Herald-Examiner about UFO sitings in Michigan. UFOs? It mentioned an astronomer working for the Air Force that made a conjecture that people were probably seeing “swamp gas”. I may have only been 13 years old, but my BS meter was already working in high gear and I was hooked. That astronomer was Dr. J. Allen Hynek. Over time, his perspective on it all changed a great deal, and so did mine.

    From a woman who was blind, deaf, and mute, Helen Keller: “Life is a great adventure, or nothing at all.”

  6. Wow Jeremy! Now that was
    Wow Jeremy! Now that was plain good stuff.
    Firstly, i want to lead with a quote applied to Albert Einstein: “If you cant explain it simply, you dont understand it well enough.”
    Okie dokie….. next, I gotta say, after reading years of Cosmic’s posts… you are so COOL! There are very few times you lose me. Thats a plus for me.
    Now, to the meat ‘n taters as it were…
    I was listening to this show while driving yesterday so I didnt get to take notes. (i take notes)
    1) you mentioned “they” are looking for a prismatic “us” in certain experiences. That would point to my original thought that “they” are looking for all of our existences across reality. Again, using the current “us” as an anchor to move across reality streams to find a location “they” need. A point A to point B trip.
    2) When you also mentioned the prismatic search I got this… IV line : the actual visual is an IV needle being stuck into a vein. It was symbolic. When you put in an IV, you are trying to add something into the body quickly. From here, it can be either the “body” is our multi- dimensional existences as a whole -OR- a direct feed to the core…AKA the Higher Self.
    See what you started, Mister?! Because that sent me off into collective Higher Selves…oneness and duality actually a person discussing pros and cons with themselves ….if “They” are really outside beings trying to reach “our” Higher Selves…if Higher Selves cannot directly communicate to those beings …outside collective…. yatta yatta. Albert is giving me a smirk. I need to re-listen before the show goes away. I know you have clues….I need to find them. And thanks for the “just be” biz….
    One more kookie pants item: Im wrestling with “ego.” I have heard that once dead, the ego for a lack of a better term evaporates. Higher Self remains. BUT….there are “psychics” who communicate with those long passed. Is it possible that Higher Self is playing a drama character, putting on a mask, to chat with those left behind?
    Finally, you go, Sherbet! It seems if we listen enough, ol’ Jeremy hits a nerve and we go whooosh off to someplace we never expected.
    Where was that mars portal guy?
    Good job folks!

    1. Many thanks for your kind
      Many thanks for your kind words HG! (You too, Jeremy!) Having been on the nerdy side most of my life, being told I’m “COOL” is, well, cool…And I’ll take it! 🙂

  7. Thank you, for your
    Thank you, for your “thinking out loud” with such clarity. I have found that refreshing through your many programs. I have wondered if it is a “learned process” and if so, where and how was it taught? Though there are some who might not like it, i am glad you do it.

    I understand your reasons for not doing a oneness roundtable. Thank you. I have no issue with whatever choices you make, as there are so many listeners and you must make choices on what is for the “whole” …and it makes sense in other ways.

    The variety of experiences people have may be related to the various “strengths” of the individuals. Is it possible that there is purpose in the types and timing of the experiences?

    Talk about hero’s journeys… is an “experience” one?

    If one doesn’t believe there is only one lifetime, and also believes life is a way of learning – then there are universes of possibilities – both within and without. Perhaps we choose “when, how, what” and especially “if” we learn.

    This schooling isn’t so secret as Whitley experienced it, due to the work he began long ago in sharing his story. You are providing a place for others to do the same… and also for all the listeners to explore their own lives in so many aspects. Thanks to both you, the listeners, and Anne and Whitley, for doing this hard work in the “open.”

  8. Sometimes I remain
    Sometimes I remain suspiciously silent on topics/people that folks are excited about here because I don’t want to consistently be the party pooper. But then I think maybe y’all feel like I’m leaving you hanging or not listening. So, let me say that I am quite familiar with FREE and their survey and give my opinions. My apologies in advance for any popped balloons.

    I find their methodology to be faulty and leading, and some of the people involved to be grossly incompetent. In fact, I’m skeptical that they’ve had as many participants as they claim.

    You will likely not find their work in any peer-reviewed scientific journals. But after taking the survey you likely did get an email from the “FREE Foundation”, which began as follows:


    (1) Would you consider paying a small monthly fee as a contribution to FREE to acquire this 24 hour TV channel programming?
    (2) If so, how much would you be willing to pay each month?
    (3) Would you also be willing to host one of our TV shows?

    The Dr. Edgar Mitchell FREE Foundation is exploring the POSSIBILITY [emphasis theirs] of having a 24 hour TV channel that will focus on all types of “Paranormal Contact” with Non Human Intelligence and related “Paranormal” Phenomena.

    And it goes on to outline what it PLANS ON having for the first 5 weekly one-hour episodes, followed by a long list of potential future episodes. “Plans on” is different than “exploring the possibility,” no?

    Either way, perhaps they’re giving us a whiff of what this survey is really leading to.

    In other news, here’s a little something I do find mildly interesting:

    1. Those are some good points,
      Those are some good points, Jeremy; however, if you have not read the book, you may not be aware of the information gathered in the surveys and how they compare to the experiences of many of the subscribers at Unknown Country. In addition, the book states plainly that they hope this first volume will serve as a jumping off point for universities and scientists to seriously study the phenomena addressed in the book. The link that you posted above goes in the same direction as the book. It never states that UFOs, UAP, whatever are evidence of ‘aliens’, but it does advocate for further study and understanding of consciousness and how it works.

      I have shelves full of books on all nature of things, including those on biology, quantum physics, astronomy, ancient history, as well as those on the nature of consciousness, metaphysics, the paranormal, and spiritual texts including the Bible, the Bhagavad Gita, and the Tibetan Book of the Dead. I have also read all kinds of books on what many consider ‘flaky’ topics and people, as well as those of serious researchers and highly credentialed scientists in various fields. I have also spoken with and corresponded with some of these people (Including archaeologists on an important dig in Egypt. I never expected a response, but I got one, and fairly quickly! I even took a chance recently and contacted Andrew Collins with a question about the ‘Cygnus Mystery’, and was astonished that he responded within 5 minutes of sending my email! Very gracious man, by the way.)

      My point is that if we automatically discount some of the more ‘out there’ topics, books, and researchers, as well as ‘regular’ people, we are not getting the whole picture. We do not have to believe what they say, but be aware of what they are saying. I feel the whole picture is important, but I also use discernment, and do my best not to jump to conclusions.

      Another thing that I try not to do is base my thoughts and actions on the opinions of other people. I am not going to criticize a book, research, what-have-you, unless I have checked it out myself.

      As for ‘peer review’, I have some doubts about that too. Years ago, when I was working in public health, my job revolved around the Vaccine for Children Program. My boss refused to research websites and publications that were anti-vaccine, and thought parents of that bent were ‘bad’ parents. My feeling was that I should know all sides of the issue, and get as good an understanding of both sides in order to approach outreach with an eye towards fairness and encouraging parents to consider vaccines rather than judging the parents on their opinions. About that time, we were also dealing with the fallout of one doctor in particular, Dr. Andrew Wakefield who did ‘studies’ on the MMR vaccine, claiming that it caused autism.His paper was published in the very distinguished journal, ‘Lancet’. Other researchers and scientists tried to duplicate his study and it was later discovered that he had played with the ‘facts’, and was discredited (His study involved a total of only 12 children, and included data manipulation). His is the ONLY time that the ‘Lancet’ has totally discredited and retracted a study, and it has been around since 1823! The biggest problem of the Wakefield study is that so many people latched on to it, believed it, and quit immunizing their kids against measles, mumps, and rubella out of needless fear. The result is that measles is growing again worldwide, and mainly in developed nations like the UK, France, and the United States, and all due to one flawed study published in a peer-reviewed journal.

      One more thing: In order to get the word out and get people on board with anything, funding is needed, and FREE, like any other endeavor wants to survive. No one seems to want to fund or do serious scientific research on things that we discuss on ‘The Experience’. This is the world that we live in.

      Thanks for the open forum, and your input IS valued—even if I disagree with you. 🙂

  9. Bad science is bad science.
    Bad science is bad science. Even if I found their results personally agreeable, that wouldn’t be good enough. If you’re going to go the scientific route, you have to present good science. FREE is, as of yet, not doing that, as noted here:

    If the goal is to serve as a jumping off point for universities and scientists, it has failed in that goal.

    I’ve read many of the survey questions, corresponded with some of the FREE members, looked at the roster of experts, talked to outside scientists about their survey, and I’ve seen the zeal with which they have wanted to become players in ufology by claiming to be something new and legit, with the same ol’ stuff/people/problems attached. So, I don’t need to read the book of results from this. It’s like saying I can’t discount Greer if I haven’t watched the Sirius doc. Credibly discounting him years ago relieves me of the burden of having to watch the movie.

    1. I know that Hurricane Lane is
      I know that Hurricane Lane is headed your way…Stay safe, Jeremy!

  10. I don’t agree that FREE has
    I don’t agree that FREE has failed. It has started. There is a huge difference. It is working with the assets it has and the skills its participants possess. They appear to me to be a sincere group, and I expect that they’re going to get somewhere over time. Let’s not throw out the bathwater before the baby has even gotten its toes wet!

    Another great show, BTW!

    1. Thanks, and I agree
      Thanks, and I agree Whitley…
      The book is more than the surveys, and worth a read, regardless of who you are and what you believe. The book was just released in July, and I already have chapters and sections of the book tabbed for reference…It’s only volume one, coming in at almost 800 pages! I admit that I want to see/read/research for myself, and prefer to steer away from hearsay whenever possible, so as you can imagine, I’ve read and researched lots of things that have left me rolling my eyes…:-)

      One of the things that I have seen, over and over again, is the demand for science and serious study, yet when someone goes in that direction, he or she gets vilified or ignored (Or maybe just, every now and then, dies under unusual circumstances).

  11. Well we’ll just agree that
    Well we’ll just agree that I’m right. I mean agree to disagree. If they do a study well I’ll certainly sing their praises. But this ain’t it.

    Still alive, by the way. (Thank you Cosmic and Whitley for your public/private concern.) Tons of rain. Wind isn’t anything worse than normal. (We live in a windy place.) But we have another day to go, so I’ll let everyone know if we don’t make it through Whitley or a Ouija Board, whichever is more receptive.

    1. This is one of the many
      This is one of the many reasons I keep coming back to this site and its community: I deeply appreciate the ability of Whitley and Jeremy (and to a wider degree, most of the regular UC audience that comments in these threads) to disagree respectfully with one another, while at the same time not letting that disagreement impede their (or our) seeking. While Jeremy frequently apologizes for being a party pooper, it is a necessary and proper role when not being done out of ego or sentiment. Having someone in the room willing to question sources, point out when something doesn’t meet expectations, or otherwise put too fine a point on a perceived inconsistency is a vital part of the questioning process, and doubly so in regard to these phenomena. One can be a wet blanket without being a disagreeable jerk, and those people are sadly very rare in my experience… so, keep that up, Jeremy. And I hope we can all keep up a degree of mutual respect for each of the many different varieties of seeker who peer into our particular cave.

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