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How does a woman raised to be a Catholic nun end up becoming a seer and doctor of indigenous medicine? Meet Phyllis Bala. After an explosive night of kundalini awakening and the long, painful ordeal that followed, she understood her role in the world much, much differently. And she began to learn from ancestors around us… in us… as well as the occasional visiting goddess. 

To learn more about Phyllis and her healing work, please visit her here.
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  1. Phyllis is easy to listen
    Phyllis is easy to listen to.Her voice carries such strength, beauty, and gentleness -it can be “felt.” I am so glad you had her on, and she spoke of Pele in a way i never heard before. So glad she shared why the stones must be returned… it makes sense. As always, Jeremy, your gifts shine as well, in being an example of quiet attentive listening. You “follow” your guests lead… rather than you leading them. Today was the first time i realized it this way. As peoples of Earth, we have spent so many lifetimes conquering whatever… through stopping the tearing it apart physically and wanton lust for “power over”… everything. The necessity for giving and breathing life into and with our beautiful home in every way we can… is absolutely needed… healing together … perhaps we can do daily meditations for this… and work with Pele and others for the healing.

    Thank you Jeremy and Phyllis, i loved this show as it touched deeply within me. Not a wonder that it came at this time… after a holiday to remember to appreciate all we have been freely given…

    1. Aloha, “not so much
      Aloha, “not so much dreamer”~

      Thank you for your kind, supportive and appreciative words. Jeremey’s capacity to follow the conversation the way he does in his “Jeremy style” that you noticed, is one of the big reasons I reached out to be on his show. It takes some skill to guide the conversation the way he does, with what I perceive as “deep listening” skills and real caring toward everyone he interviews.

      I’m deeply grateful to have had the opportunity to speak with a community and host of this caliber. It’s been an honor sharing so much with everyone.

  2. Oh… this show so follows
    Oh… this show so follows Whitley’s subscriber special…. it is clear there is a “process that is working. There is a wholeness and unified development going on… or so it seems to me. It is not that i think you & Whitley planned it this way. Rather, that the openness to “listen within and to spirit” provides the unity. And each listener is part of the whole… so thank you all- Whitley, Anne, Jeremy, listeners, guests. This is what makes unknown country so very special.

    1. I couldn’t agree more!
      I couldn’t agree more!

  3. My stepson was telling me
    My stepson was telling me that his 4 year old daughter was asking him about “the ancestors” and he said it was hard to explain it to her, and she said she wanted to meet them, but he said that would be sad, because, you know, she’d have to die. 10 minutes or so later, I returned to my home office and resumed listening to this episode…and viola! She talks about the Ancestors. Have had a lot of synchronicities like this lately. Lovely episode Jeremy, once again. Thank you.

    1. “10 minutes or so later…”
      “10 minutes or so later…”

      She died?! Oh. No. Oh, good! Carry on.

    2. Aligater,
      Children love being


      Children love being led on adventures to learn about their ancestors or people who lived long before they were born. Things as simple as exploring eye color and wondering what grandmother might have thad her same eye color, or hair just like hers, or the color of it. Sometimes questioning likes and dislikes of certain foods, music, places in nature, etc., can be super fun topics for young children, with stories, arts, crafts, nature exploration, photos and family trees. All of that can be wonderful, light-hearted beginning places for kids of all ages.

      So happy to hear you’re paying attention to the synchronicities in your life, and allowing them to unfold. Mahalo~

  4. Ah Jeremy & Phyllis,

    Ah Jeremy & Phyllis,
    Nice. That was good stuff.
    if I have this right… see people inside of people(ancestors).
    Might that be down to genetics? Where you receive a part of an ancestor genetically and THAT piece has an energy unto itself?
    A friend recently went to ireland and being considerate, she collected some sand and rocks from there. She sent me some. i thought about it, then sent the gift back. i didnt feel right having it. Im more about collecting water. I really didnt want to insult the consideration. Any thoughts?
    Thanks for a fresh & new perspective on …..stuff.

    1. HG,
      Glad you enjoyed our


      Glad you enjoyed our conversation! Yes, it’s working with genetics/stem cells, mitochondrial DNA, mRNA, etc. Yes, the quality of energy is often determined by cellular memories.

      My first thoughts about your friend bringing sand & rocks from Ireland as a gift to you is: What is your connection to Ireland? Ancestors? Time spent there that was special to you in some way? I’m curious about what feeling(s) interfered with your “right to have it”? This gesture from your friend really stimulated some important feelings. Feelings can be important messengers worth listening to.

      Thank you for asking, HG.

  5. Fascinating but now i’m
    Fascinating but now i’m wondering if my teak backscratcher purchased in HI has p’o’ed Madam Pele? Mercy!

    1. Lorem,
      Items for purchase in


      Items for purchase in Hawaii, are not something I’d worry about. It’s about respecting Her creations in nature & not removing them. I appreciate your concern. Enjoy your backscratcher!


  6. Hi Jeremy,
    My comments on

    Hi Jeremy,
    My comments on your million dollar question: there are many ways to say it so I hope I choose a way that lends clarity to the issue. Yes, there is an evolutionary purpose. As Phyllis said, ALL that is was created by the Heart-intelligence of the Universe, so it cannot be without purpose. To state it as briefly as possible, the reason for it was simply because it was an unexplored potential, and therefore it had to be explored, whatever the consequences. However, those consequences also serve the evolutionary purpose thus: If we have something, and then lose it – when we regain it through the long processes of the consequences of losing it, we value it more deeply and more comprehensively than we originally did, or than we originally COULD have.

    A fundamental principle of the Universe is that it exists for experience. If something remains unexplored, un-experienced, then the Universe is not serving its purpose, which is impossible.

    However diametrically opposite some experience may seem to the apparent purpose of the Heart-Intelligence of the Universe, no experience can ACTUALLY be opposite to this purpose. It will use the darkest experience to eventually shine brighter than it did before, or indeed than it could have before, in accordance with the rules it originally set forth.

    As far as how could a culture steeped in the heart leave it to enter the path of the mind, they wouldn’t know beforehand the ultimate consequences of such a movement since it hadn’t been experienced yet. Each step leads to the next. The ‘end’ result is only experienced at the ‘end’ itself, but, you know there is no end in any ultimate sense, there is only an end to particular experience (once it has served its purpose).

    The arc of this having-losing-regaining is perhaps expressed musically here:

    1. Steve44,
      Brilliantly spoken,


      Brilliantly spoken, especially this part: …”It will use the darkest experience to eventually shine brighter than it did before,”…

      Thank you for including a musical example of how you hear the …”arc of this having-losing-regaining”.

      Read the original source: oom/experience/latest#ixzz50FHjHT6J

  7. The question of when heart
    The question of when heart people became brain people reminded me of the tree of knowledge. Could this old story be an allegorical way of saying that the offer to partake of knowledge by some party was the point at which brain (knowledge) people and civilization began?

    1. Great question Vinny! The
      Great question Vinny! The more I think about it, the more questions I have too.

      1. Just thoughts that came to me
        Just thoughts that came to me immediately about when “heart people became brain people”:

        I feel that as soon as people realized that they could control something attached to nature, they began to change away from heart-centeredness. Learning to control fire may have been where it started, and more so than developing tools like spears for hunting. While it took a while from that point for civilization to begin, learning to capture and create fire was a huge game-changer, because they could not only flush out prey, they could preserve it through smoking and cooking the prey, as well as receive warmth and light from fire. They could also change the environment around them, leading the way for clearing land and the development of agriculture too. While many indigenous peoples had fire, not all of them took that next step towards agriculture, which in turn led to civilization and freeing up time from hunting and berry-picking, to giving people free time for other pursuits and more time for ‘thought’ rather than day-to-day, moment-to-moment survival.

        Women, early on, were the ones that had to find ways to keep themselves and their children fed when the men were off hunting, so they had more to do with developing agriculture in its early stages than men. Patriarchy probably began when men had more free time to do other things besides hunt…Ya’ll can take it from there.:-)

        If you know the legend of Prometheus, it makes sense. By giving the gift of fire to mankind he was punished by the gods, because now they had some stiff competition…

        1. Hi Cosmic!
          IMO, the division

          Hi Cosmic!
          IMO, the division was more an inner one than an outer one. Human beings have always had a mind, and from the beginning it would have been given its place and its utility to human life by Nature even in heart-cultures. The Heart is inclusive, not exclusive, so there doesn’t necessarily have to be a conflict between the two from the very beginning. It’s when human beings began to focus on the mind exclusively (because exclusivity is the very nature of the way the mind works) that the actual schism occurred. Once the mind was given ENOUGH authority, it declared itself the ONLY authority, because that is its nature.

          1. Steve,
            Steve, inner/outer/above/below, all is connected. I feel that the heart and the mind must work together as equals, so I agree with you. In a reality of duality, the only way to achieve balance is reconciliation between the two. The use of fire may have been one of the things that began pushing us out of balance. But then again, although primitive humans may have been more highly attuned to the natural world, more heart-centered, our survival as a species may not have come about without advancing ‘thought’. Now, we are in the opposite direction and our survival hangs in the balance once again. Kindness may originate in the heart, but it can also be an idea that leads to opening of the mind, and vice versa.

  8. Lots of great material here.
    Lots of great material here. Thanks for doing the interview, Phyllis. Do we have ancestor memories inside our body that are transferred through DNA? Is it sort of a family collective consciousness? I have heard people receive downloads of information directly from their parents, and that instills them with a sense of morality from birth. Or perhaps it comes from previous incarnations of one’s spirit. I used to be confused at a young age, because I felt I had a sense of morality that came out of seemingly nowhere, if I believed the notion that my parents inculcated me with, that “this was my first lifetime”.

    Sounds like Phyllis’s experiences go beyond mere memories, but I am wondering if some of those spirits are residual memories, passed on through DNA.

    While we are on the subject of Kundalini, I thought I would share this experience I had….

    When I was 14 years of age I entered a shower in my home and let the water run over me. I was under the impression that something significant was going to happen, and that I was on schedule for an appointment of some type. I turned off the shower, laid down on my back and relaxed in the tub as the water began to drain. I began to hear a whispering sound of many voices, and I began to feel energy sensations move from the bottom of my spine, up my middle section, and into the higher crown chakra regions. I was seeing threads of energy which blossomed into gorgeous colors and images, I observed strings of energy that sparked up and played out, the phantasmagoria that erupted was full of liquid light and strong emotions. At one point, I witnessed the impression of two faces looking at me, but I did not discontinue my emotional and mental journey, I delved further into the feelings that were materializing. About halfway into the experience, the poles of right and left energy seemed to reverse, although this seemed natural and familiar to me. I simply noted it and headed deeper into the energy waves and spatial realities that were flooding through my brain. I was inside a tunnel, it appeared, and this tunnel defined my visual scope. As I really started to run the energy, I noticed that the energies were becoming more and more intense. I could feel Earth energy bubbling up inside of me, which then progressed to Sky energy at the top of my crown chakra. I noted that energy from these two ports influenced each other, and that one responded in accordance to the actions of the other. One energy arose out of the other, and I generally continued my “up, middle, down, middle, up” sequence constantly. Sometimes I went from up to down, middle to up, so the sequence of directions got shifted at times. The energies seemed to be wrapped around each other in principle, much like The staff of Asclepius, or Hippocratic Oath symbol. Threads of energy extended with great dispatch, becoming more elongated in each passing instant. Intensity of vibration continued to burgeon, flow advanced, and suddenly I was rushing down a tunnel at an incredible speed, perhaps light speed or greater. I was reaching the uppermost limits of my crown chakra energy. I reached down into the Earth energy one last time, feeling the dense viscosity of it, then I observed a very tight string of energy racing to the absolute top, to the cap of my head. For an instance, I paused, then I focused the total accumulation of the energy that I remembered from the entire experience on the base of my spine. A pin prick of focused light exploded (or perhaps imploded) at that moment, seeming to ricochet off of something. Concurrently, I inhaled deeply, and the breath seemed to permeate my entire being. I then let out an ecstatic exhalation. Time appeared to stop, and I could see and feel the essence of everything within the apparent “singularity”. I could see a invisible road leading to the singularity, I was aware that it was the energy road I had just traveled. I observed a golden yellow dot portion of the singularity, superimposed upon a brownish dot. The feelings I experienced were greater than any feelings I have ever had in my entire lifetime. Everything was interconnected and mingled in the singularity, which evidently persisted for a few seconds then faded. It seemed like an inordinately long amount of time had elapsed. I looked at my eyes a few minutes later in the mirror, and they were brighter than I have ever seen my eyes appear.
    I later learned this was a Kundalini experience, and that running energy like this could be learned as a technique. During the experience I felt that I could stop anytime, but the actual energies I experienced were not fully under my conscious control.

  9. Glad you like the content
    Glad you like the content Mace; enjoyed being interviewed by Jeremy.
    DNA behaves like memories stored on computer chips. Memories, attitudes and feelings can be those belonging to individual(s) or a larger collective in DNA. For instance, I communicate directly with heart intelligence of mitochondrial DNA, the Grandmothers of 20 thousand generations. When they listen from their heart intelligence, they can only respond in a loving manner, thus the mending of cellular division and matter. Regardless of what issues their memories hold & the cells begin their dance of regeneration, remember their past through the wisdom & knowledge gained from their “spiritual schooling” on the other side. Thus they clean up and repair their own histories through self-love & self-forgiveness.
    I communicate with mRNA, when direct communication with DNA is contraindicated. I find the stories of the ancestors are in the RNA. An individual can also sometimes step forward as a specialist with or without my assistance. Sometimes a particular ancestral individual can remember exactly what is needed for their descendent, because that person is still a medicine person with knowledge that’s located in their past, sometimes very distant past. This happened once, when a young female client did not want to claim her native american ancestry because it was such a small percentage, she didn’t feel her “blood quantum” entitled her to such claims. Therefore, one of her grandfathers who had been a medicine man in her “deep ancestry”, was prevented from responding to her so he couldn’t help heal her directly. So he asked me to think into my past on a “spiritual timeline” to access a “timeframe” that would allow my distant ancestor who was a medicine person—to create a frequency/portal to allow him access..

    He then released from her organ system in an explosive energy, without harm to her. I didn’t want to tell her what he and I had been communicating and what I had been asked to do, because that is my part of the journey. So when he came flying out, he landed at her feet standing up. He was extremely kind, humble, compassionate, knowledgeable and a respect-worthy master healer. But way too big. She saw him standing at her feet while she was still lying down during her energy treatment. She became very concerned about who this man was, as well as his size. I told her not to worry, that it was her Grandpa, a medical specialist and native american medicine man here to be her doctor throughout her life when she needed the help. She had a life-threatening genetic condition that western medicine was not able to help her with. He told us the story of how she would someday meet her Ancestral Grandmother (perhaps his mother), who knew the healing secrets of the medicine plants in an area she would move to one day. She would become a well known herbalist, loved and trusted by her community and healed by the plants.

    Mace, I want to thank you so much for revealing such an intimate story of your adolescent years, which makes me wonder if it helped you to value and become who you are now? You’re right, I’ve never seen anyone come in as a soul who is a blank slate and empty vessel to fill up from the outside—in. I’m curious if you continued to explore your breath work, the healing nature of water and the movement of your own energies? What an amazing and poignant story for a 14 year old to experience! Many thanks for continuing this opportunity to talk story. ~Mahalo~

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