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Bradley Manning and now Edward Snowden have risked their lives and their freedom to disclose official secrets. Why? Is it right or wrong, good or bad? And what does it mean for the future? The US Constitution does not specifically guarantee a right of privacy, but the ACLU has filed a lawsuit claiming that the NSA’s Prism program is a violation of the 4th Amendment right to protection from unreasonable searches and seizures.

Linda Moulton Howe interviews one of the ACLU’s lawyers, asking him about the suit, and we explore the question of which is more important to us: our privacy or our safety from terrorist attack.

Across the whole spectrum of America’s political life, trust in government is eroding. At the same time, we need the protections that government affords. We explore where the line should be drawn.

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  1. The generation that founded
    The generation that founded this nation had directly experienced life without liberty and knew how important liberty was. Men like Franklin expressed the famous, “They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.” But that was 100s of years ago and today, people take freedom and liberty for granted, so much so that we actually hear on this radio program uncertainly as to whether or not we should let the NSA spy on us, because it might keep us a little safer. People fail to realize that any terrorist organization worth their salt could have struck us constantly and relentlessly by now–there are so many vulnerabilities. The fact that we haven’t experienced this is proof, not that the NSA is so great, but that they aren’t really trying. The reality is, we are far more likely to be killed by a disgruntled American with an assault rifle than by any foreign terrorist. Even if that were not the case, it would be amazing to the generation that founded our country that our citizens would willingly trade liberty for a little safety–but that is the choice most of us are making. Even those of us who have been hounded by the government through much of their lives remain unconvinced that NSA databases on American citizens are a bad thing, because they might be making us a little safer. Edgar Cayce once said that China would be hope of the world. Perhaps that population will throw off the shackles of totalitarian control in the coming years and having experienced it so recently, will fight to preserve and extend liberty and freedom. The United States by contrast appears to be headed down dusty road of history into totalitarian control. “Give me liberty or give me death” anyone–or would you rather just watch the Kardashians? It is the way of things. Everything is perfect.

    1. I believe the databases are
      I believe the databases are so incredibly dangerous. For this “information” is going to last hundreds, maybe thousands of years. During that time, who knows what sort of tyrants and dictators might take control of this information and use it against the innocent?

      1. you are so right
        you are so right

      2. you are so right
        you are so right

    2. you said it so well!!!
      you said it so well!!!

  2. Explosive is correct! One of
    Explosive is correct! One of the best reports that you and Linda have ever offered. Thank you both so much for your continued hard work in digging for the truth. I hope there will be more of this very soon.

  3. It’s real simple if this
    It’s real simple if this idiot-oppressive corporate government run by a mafia cabal actually CARED about the people, the borders would have been secured after nine eleven. They weren’t. They aren’t. They won’t be unless the people step up and do it.

    Not to mention governments kill far, far more of their people, including the US government, than any amount of terrorists attacks. Heck, hospitals kill far more people a year than any terrorist ever has, or could, in this country. Who stops the Medical Industrial Complex? Laws don’t stop them. Fines don’t stop them. No gov agency ever stops them, except temporarily — at one point it was 300,000 people a year, dead from medical prescription drugs and mistakes. I shudder to think what the numbers are now.

    So, WHO is the real enemy?

    It’s a bad sad horrific joke that spying on the American people prevents any manner of terrorism. Those at the top are protecting themselves from us, the people. Not to say there aren’t a few good White Hats actually trying to do, and doing the right thing by the people. But they are few and far between, imo. That’s why real whistleblowers are so needed in these times.

    Given most of the congress people are bought and paid for, blackmailed, etc., under the control of the NSA, and other intel agencies, I don’t see how contacting them will solve the problem. That’s a red-herring move to keep us all in a state of false hope, instead of actually taking the bull by the horns, and creating our own world.

    In my opinion, we need to take back the reins of power by not complying. THEY, the gov agency employees, DON’T FOLLOW THE RULES they’ve made. But, we’re supposed to bow down and comply with their rules, laws, codes, regulations, policies like good little serfs.

    The rule of law is gone with the wind. It no longer exists as an option. Face it, they’ve got the bigger guns, the bigger weapons… a Sky Net surveillance system. That’s why their so sickeningly arrogant. The laws mean nothing to them. Hey, really, who of any consequence has been justly thrown in prison recently?

  4. I don’t want to go into a lot
    I don’t want to go into a lot of detail here, since half the readers likely won’t understand or worse, won’t believe what I am saying, but I’ll make a few brief points to help explain and prove out what I’m about to reveal.

    Frankly I’m shocked that this is not recognized by more participants and listeners of this show. The Republican and Democrat game is a complete façade, the real “America” as we know it has not existed for a very long time and it’s fairly easy for anyone to prove this via first-hand experience themselves.

    Inherent rights as people understand them per the Constitution (and believe me, almost no one understands them, because far more than one Constitution exist) are long gone. One easy example for everyone is the need to have a permit for a gun over simply going to the store and buying one. No one has a “second amendment right.” Once you are defined as a “citizen” or “person” (among other legal jargon) you have 14th amendment privileges that require the forfeiture of what would have been actual rights…no permissions needed at any time to do anything if you are a *man*.

    Ever see anyone in a court case referred to as a “man?” They are always referred to as “persons.”

    Countless adhesion contracts with what is actually a corporation called “The United States” exist to help reinforce the controls. The actual country is called “The United States of America” and “sits” underneath it as an actual, unseated “country” as compared to the corporation on top of it that you participate in as a “citizen” or “person.”

    Just a couple easy ways to verify this:

    The United States District Court and the District Court of the United States are not the same things. You may find case law stating that this concept is silly/frivolous “bunk,” until you actually read the case law and understand how and why these claims are made under the specific circumstances that they are made. Most people have no clue how to access these courts correctly. And if they do, you will watch judges put every last effort they have into not only changing the paperwork to have it read as the corporate court (which is actually a form of tampering, which is criminal)…where you have mere privileges and no inherent rights…but they will also state on the record the same. If you are effective enough at attempting to access the court of rights, you will at some point be explained, indirectly, that you then cannot obtain the relief you are seeking if you are a *man*…because the court you are attempting to access has no lawful judge there to hear the case.

    Because there are no rights accessible here any longer. Only privileges.

    If you have any understanding of what I’m saying, know that I’ve witnessed this first-hand and more than once. It is absolutely the way things run in this “country.”

    Another easy way to prove these concepts to yourself: Try to execute a Habeas Corpus when in jail. I’ve watched officials ignore Habeas more than four times in the past ten years (in other words, every single attempt at Habeas has either been completely and simply ignored, because the person does not have this right, or, the person was railroaded once before the court by both the judge and prosecutor, the latter of which has no business even being at a Habeas hearing and are both State employees btw, to manipulate defects into the person’s attempt to execute the Habeas to help ensure it did not free him/her).

    You will fight me on these concepts, and the reason why you’ll think they are not true is because of this key factor: The “appearance of” an actual government with “The People’s” rights intact is part of what is being maintained. They *can* outright deny rights, and you can see this (and you do) over and over again, such as the second amendment issue above…but they must maintain *the appearance of* “rights” at all times (hence your gun permits as again one example).

    I have watched a good bunch of cases where blatant conflicts of interest exist with a judge hearing a case, and they can simply state on the record that “there is no conflict of interest.” As soon as the man in the case trying to assert rights states on the record that there *is the appearance of a conflict of interest* the claim is acknowledged. Judges have recused themselves from cases based on such statements simply stating *the appearance of*.

    SO: As to this subject matter, anyone who is a “person” or “citizen” does not have 4th amendment “rights.” They are by definition not men. (Look in Black’s for *any* indication that a “person” or “citizen” is EVER a *man*…they are two completely different entities…which are you?) The corporation that you are essentially an employee of via your social security number and countless other adhesion contracts absolutely has full right to monitor your communications and does not need to ask your permission. Whine and complain all you want, the public outcry is the *only* thing that may change it, to again “maintain that appearance.”

    You have forfeited your inherent rights to begin with, and reinforce that forfeiture when you vote for the CEO of that corporation you work for via a Republican or Democratic vote for a President (CEO). When you signed that voter registration card, you signed an affidavit at the bottom, swearing under oath that you were a “citizen of the United States.” (Not a citizen of the United States of America). You stated that you belong to a corporation in which you have willingly given up your rights in favor of government granted privileges, and you really-really…do not have any right to complain ever, about anything they’re doing at all. Your voluntary willingness to succumb to their jurisdiction via your actions and votes above proves that lawfully to them, and becomes by default a form of self-incrimination.

    This is why government is getting worse and worse…it’s because by law, they can. We’ve long been a conquered nation, and the debt system, The Fed, is outside of US jurisdiction for a reason; we are in debt to our captors and with interest attached…always will be. (If you don’t believe The Fed is an independent organization, search youtube for Greenspan’s public comment on it where he clearly states “we don’t have to adhere to US law…we are independent, outside of US jurisdiction). Then ask yourself why in hell we would EVER be borrowing money from some independent organization that does not have to answer to our country’s laws.

    Come on people, wake up.

    The Treasury was supposed to issue our money…not a private club that benefits from it via our labor/taxes.

    1. Thanks for your remark, “The
      Thanks for your remark, “The Republican and Democrat game is a complete façade, the real “America” as we know it has not existed for a very long time . . . ” This “back and forth” between political parties and citizens is just a way to distract Americans from the real issues. “America” disappeared a long time ago.

      We are obsessed with war and making weapons of war. We have no interest in feeding the starving children of the world . . . we could have done that easily years ago. Corporations and the “power elite” run this country now.

      Thanks for your very knowledgeable post. You have obviously done your research.

    2. To Shades of Grays:
      Thank you

      To Shades of Grays:

      Thank you for your very informative and well-stated commentary. I believe people are beginning to wake up
      and comments like yours can only help us further understand the state of affairs in this country.
      I don’t consider myself a negative thinker, but I can’t help but wonder if it’s just too late to do
      anything about it. I hope not…

  5. Thank you so much, Whitley
    Thank you so much, Whitley and Linda. Linda’s presentation at the Citizen Hearing on Disclosure included information about the NSA activities. It was the most chilling, frightening thing to come out of those hearings, for me. I have tried to tell as many people as possible about this, as well as about the NSA center to open this Sept. in Utah.

    I have felt for a long time that Americans are not considered to be much more than cows with wallets. It’s been a long time since I felt the positive regard from “conservatives,” corporations or the elite, or recognition that we are, first, American citizens (caring for each other.)

    You (and we) can’t talk about this too much.

  6. Those who would trade their
    Those who would trade their liberty for a little safety deserve neither.
    ~Benjamin Franklin

    ‘Nuf said

  7. America is the New ‘EMPIRE’.
    America is the New ‘EMPIRE’. Rome lost its Republic. America lost its Republic 50 years ago with the assassination of Kennedy. Instead of an Emperor, we have the NSA, the CIA, the FBI, and other alphabet agencies too numerous to state, along with the rich who control most of the land and corporations.

    The founding fathers based their new American Republic on the old Roman Republic. They knew Latin and Ancient Greek, they read the old Greek and Roman classics. I have never relished the idea of Rome as an Empire. The real Rome was the Republic, not the imperial tyranny that came with Augustus Caesar.

  8. the republic needed
    the republic needed smashing&had already been experiencing painful death pangs 80+yearsbefore augusto saved his country&the meditterranean world-the senators were a bunch of corrupt 1%er assholes who already knew the republic was dead-the examples of marius&sulla&any wannabe millitary strongman had shown them that-they all gave lip service to government for the people while hording all the wealth&literally tearing limb from limb anyone who tried to help the poor(the gracchi)caesar was killed&augusto’s principate was constantly plotted against because-behind the senatorial sham every piece of shit aristocrat sitting in the curia wanted to be emperor himself

  9. …i know-i was there
    …i know-i was there

  10. “The price of Freedom is
    “The price of Freedom is eternal vigilance”
    Thomas Jefferson

    Americans have not been vigilant, but they have been distracted for the last 50+ years with the pursuit of ‘wealth’, technology, TV and other media, and coveting what they want rather than getting what they need. What they need at this point is a big kick in the seat of the pants, and the NSA may be doing the kicking. As with many things, we don’t appreciate what we have until we no longer have it.

    Bread and circuses…

  11. Linda, you’re Right On The
    Linda, you’re Right On The Money with this! We are sitting by while our Constitutionally-given freedoms are slowly but surely being surreptitiously removed. As Shades of Grays said, the whole bipartisan political scenario is now a SCAM, smoke and mirrors, a “Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain” move by those really in control to keep us from discovering what they’re up to until it’s to late to do anything to correct the problem.
    Whitley and Linda, THANK YOU SO MUCH for this important program! I hope that you both will keep us updated on this covert erosion. This has been one very enjoyable and engaging Dreamland.

  12. Whitley, I just listened to
    Whitley, I just listened to your latest show on Dreamland where you posed the question if anyone would come forward with information about Disclosure.

    What about David Wilcock and all the disclosures he’s made?
    What about Dr Steven Greer? He’s made a major documentary called Sirius that tries to get this information out to the public, and even shows the work being done on the DNA of an actual alien. He’s also had two public Citizen Hearings at the Washington, DC Press Club, with many notable whistleblowers from government speaking about their knowledge and experiences with UFO’s…including the Canadian Minister of Defense.

    But you have mentioned nothing about them. You act as if you are the only one interested in this topic. Why don’t all you different UFO investigaters finally get together and support each other to get this information out there, instead of trying to protect your little empires? I’ve lost respect for everyone who claims to be “looking out for our best interests” and not just the government.

  13. I act as if I’m the only one
    I act as if I’m the only one interested in this topic? Where in the world did you get that idea? And what ‘little empires’ do we have? You need to take a completely new look at the whole subject. I am making the same request that everybody makes. Why? Because we don’t have ‘little empires!’ We’re very much together. Sheesh!

  14. whitley-you rule-stay punk
    whitley-you rule-stay punk

  15. Minmay, please DO shut up,
    Minmay, please DO shut up, you…worthless troll.

    And as for you “pumcq”, seriously…who are you again?…you arrogant shit.

    I am tired of creeps infiltrating this website by spewing out their filth and stupidity as if it were important to begin with.

    Minmay and pumcq, do us a favor and go creep about somewhere else.

  16. So, maybe this is a good time
    So, maybe this is a good time to lighten things up….. Time to move out of the emotions and a bit of ego then ask, “WHAT WOULD SPOCK DO?”

    …….A constant battle between what he thinks and what he feels. What does he do? Does he follow his head embracing logic and the power of reason or does he follow his heart, knowing the emotions he cannot control may destroy him?…….

    Humm, so what does SPOCK do? (Star Trek Into Darkness.) Perhaps what most of us are most deficient in is WISDOM.

  17. thanks carollee-indeed! we
    thanks carollee-indeed! we should all lighten up-why a little history lesson would make someone so butthurt is beyond me but-you’d think people would know the difference between knowledge&…wisdom&thank you whitley for providing us subscribers this place to commune-sorry some feel the need to hurl insults&abuse dana point surfer rule! that’s what spock would say!

  18. dana point surfers rule
    dana point surfers rule

  19. A big problem here is that we
    A big problem here is that we are thinking that the NSA is spying on us to make us safe from terrorist organizations, and we think Jhad and the like, but if you will remember, the government was (and is) keeping tabs on a lot of organizations that they have lumped “terrorist”, such as the Quakers, environmentalist groups, and even in my little town Missouri, a tiny organization that would stand on the street corner with protest signs against the war, among other non-violent protests and activist causes, and was the most non-threatening group of people you would ever want to meet. You, too, could be a terrorist, if you belong to a book club or put in solar panels or join neighborhood watch group. That’s who the government is watching.

  20. Great show about an
    Great show about an absolutely essential topic. But let’s not end it here…

    If you don’t like the secrecy factor add your voice to the dissenters. There are so many options like Demand Progress or the Snowden petition…. but the important thing is NOT to remain silent and leave this to “someone” else to solve. Don’t be a spectator if you know that the result of the game affects the issues you care deeply about.

    Most of the ways you can add your voice to the general discussion are free, the only cost is your small effort to find the movement you want and add your voice to it… and if you want to do it financially even better.

    This may be the “brick” that makes the wall of secrecy crumble. Remember that disclosure of other issues will not happen unless the people support whistle blowers and civil disobedience against secrecy as a whole.

  21. So much of what is coming to
    So much of what is coming to light now shows up in astrology. If you are not familiar with Uranus squaring Pluto, Barbara Hand Clow sums it up well, along with other astrological sign posts occurring now:

  22. Add me to the data base.
    Add me to the data base. “Unknown Country”, one would think, has a special place in the data/information construct of those who take and form, form and take , the pulse of the nation/world.

  23. Add me to the data base.
    Add me to the data base. “Unknown Country”, one would think, has a special place in the data/information construct of those who take and form, form and take , the pulse of the nation/world.

  24. Read the comments here and
    Read the comments here and then read the comments on something like MSNBC. It is clear where the people with brains get their information.

  25. Whitley, thank you so much
    Whitley, thank you so much for this report. You & Linda rock. I love the way you both connect the dots with your personal experiences & research. One of the things I appreciate about Unknown Country, is how you bring so many experts in as guests, who are clearly doing their research in order to bring us the very best and current information.

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