Peter Levenda has been a guest on Dreamland for many wonderful interviews in the past – and this one is no exception!

Here, he joins Whitley in a discussion about the content of his new book in the Sekret Machines series written by him and Tom DeLonge, Sekret Machines: Gods, Man and War. 

He takes us with him on his journey, both as an author and a seeker of truth and understanding. A lifelong student of mysticism, Peter goes deep into the connection between the occult and the forces that surround us, both dark and light.

Do not miss Peter and Whitley’s amazing discussion of the ominous Maury Island incident of 1947, the Kennedy assassination, the UFO/UAP phenomenon, bizarre materials, hidden knowledge, the deep state, their connection to each other… and MORE!

Peter Levenda’s website is

To purchase Sekret Machines, click here.

To see all our great Peter Levenda interviews, click hereAs a subscriber you could listen to all these extraordinary interviews. Click here to explore our inexpensive plans!

A correction: Whitley says in the interview that it has been 7 years since Peter has appeared on Dreamland. It has been 4 years.

Dreamland Video podcast
To watch the FREE video version on YouTube, click here.

Subscribers, to watch the subscriber version of the video, first log in then click on Dreamland Subscriber-Only Video Podcast link.


  1. Brilliant! I am running thru my mind the idea that we are a cargo cult. It is quite a revelation. The whole interview and conversation was fascinating.

  2. Soooo…….leaving the garden of Eden, our “enlightenment” is really a drive started by the idea of a Cargo Cult? Wrapping that with DNA, the quintessential selfish molecule, that represents our physical existence and its sole purpose of replication is a real mind bender. We’ve certainly become the dominant manifestation of DNA on the planet. How to link the soul and DNA partnership becomes my next question or maybe paradox. Are they antagonistic? I can’t help but think of the Gnostic movement and their christian alternative which rejects the physical. DNA would not be happy with them! It also seems to be somewhat core to our concepts of good and evil.

    A bold and very thought provoking question posed by you Whitley that suggests Putin and his fatalistic world view is a response to our planet isn’t big enough so we need to shed some fleas is fascinating. DNA driven directive because life is threatened and DNA diversity becomes limited. An more animal instinct reaction than moral driven decision for sure.

    Physical existence vs Non Physical is that the question? Is our next step into the Non physical world? Have we run our course or is the hybrid form our next leap? Darn you two, I love your interaction but you make my brain spin.

    1. I would say that our Egoic Operating System evolved to support the survival of the DNA and now functions more like malware hijacking the soul’s power. Like in the Matrix films, except the EOS is the machines. We have created it to survive hundreds of thousands of years of tumult and earth changes, and now it is trying to replicate itself and create life by way of AI and its own metaverse reality (because it wants to be a “real boy.”). I think the soul can take the power back by freeing itself of this internal machine/matrix/egoic operating system but it is not without a struggle because the EOS is networked in the world. But, we have to remember that it is not meant to be in charge–we have given our power over to it to survive as a species and go on to dominate and now destroy the planet; so now it works against our survival and we need take our power back. The problem is that we project and that’s it’s superpower. We aren’t willing to see that the matrix is within us, our own brains are running the matrix program, using the soul as energy. We finance a lot of toxic latency using our vital life force and then just stay stuck in the loop to come back and do it again (which we call karma and act like it’s a universal law).

  3. Peter has become a silver fox! LOL

    Very fascinating interview. With the cargo cult idea, it seems humans are always trying to emulate the gods. We aspire to be more than we are. Sometimes we take a few wrong turns and diabolical humans have always warped that desire by offering far less than perfect models to follow, e.g., communism AND predatory capitalism.

    1. Can you explain to me what a “cargo cult” is? Of course I know what a “cult” is but cargo, not sure.

  4. Folks – if you haven’t read Peter’s “Sinister Forces” trilogy – you’re missing out!

    Fantastic show! Too bad it can’t be any longer – I could listen to both of you for hours!

    Thank you Whitely and Peter!!

  5. Wonderful episode. The cargo cult portion is mind bending. Can you link us up with the Dreamland episode you advised us to listen to? Besides the past episodes with Peter Levenda.

    1. go to the search – the search engine will help you find the various available left of the page top- search feature- I am just learning to use the various aspects of this site! wahoo!

  6. Peter and Whitley seemed to be talking about ‘aliens’ and ‘the phenomenon’ in the same breath, as if they were one and the same thing…but I’m not so sure at all. It just makes me wonder whether the remarkable coincidences that Peter was describing (that makes you wonder if the Universe is playing a joke on you) might also happen to the occupants of UFOs. Might they also be shaking their heads and wondering what (on Earth) is going on?

    Firstly, a thought just came to me, whilst mimicking an alien looking around wondering what the Universe is playing at… and I just realized that that ‘feeling’ immediately and effortlessly jumps you out of your head and into pure awareness… like an amused but fascinated child looking around them, full of awe. Maybe that is the actual – the only – point of the experience?

    The other thought buzzing around my head, is whether these experiences would still happen if we were away from the Earth. So if we were on Mars, for example, would the same type of ‘extreme coincidence’ experiences still occur – would they follow us, like a hitchhiker…or would they take on a different flavour, as if a different personality were playing the joke?… Maybe that is a question best asked of a UFO frequent-flyer!

  7. If people like Putin had daily meditated on the following and its like, their path might well have taken a very different path: “O SON OF BEING!

    Bring thyself to account each day ere thou art summoned to a reckoning; for death, unheralded, shall come upon thee and thou shalt be called to give account for thy deeds” (Bahá’u’lláh, The Hidden Words, #31).

  8. Great interview as always. It is incredible hibiscus tree berries able to keep this up every week and every week it is a gem

    I am surprised how we’re still doubting the strange, intuitive force that is with us and guiding every step of the way.
    To me it is very obvious.

  9. Another excellent interview. Thank you, Whitley and Peter. And thank you, Whitley, for your closing comments about the Soul and its onward and upward journey, and how it relates, in integrity, with the Phenomenon, in the Light and in the Dark.

  10. Levenda is a brilliant guy, and he has been missed. His theory about a mankind being a “cargo cult” is an interesting one, but it brought to my mind a popular foreign film from 1980, “The Gods Must Be Crazy”. The movie was from South Africa, and it was a real gem!

    In the interest of time (and my one-handed typing), this is copied from Wikipedia:

    “Xi and his San tribe[a] are living happily in the Kalahari Desert, away from industrial civilization. One day, a glass Coca-Cola bottle is thrown out of an airplane by a pilot and falls to the ground unbroken. Initially, Xi’s people assume the bottle to be a gift from their gods, just as they believe plants and animals are, and find many uses for it. Unlike other bounties, however, there is only one glass bottle, which causes unforeseen conflict within the tribe. As a result, Xi, wearing only a loincloth, decides to make a pilgrimage to the edge of the world and dispose of the divisive object.”

    Xi’s journey to the ‘edge of the world’ includes various adventures along the way, some of them hilarious. “Xi eventually arrives at God’s Window, the top of a cliff with a solid layer of low-lying clouds obscuring the landscape below. Convinced that he has reached the edge of the world, he throws the bottle off the cliff, and returns to his family.”

    What was enlightening about this movie was the idea that the gods had given Xi and the San people so many wonderful gifts that at first they just accepted the Coke bottle as another gift, until it brought out greed, jealousy, and divisiveness among the San. The San, and Xi, had the wisdom to question the gods and the true benefit of such a gift. They realized that peace and happiness were more important ‘gifts’ than a Coke bottle. They had free will—and used it too.

    That’s who and where we are. We have free will, and we must decide what is of utmost value for our growth, and happiness as human beings—and souls. We don’t need shiny objects or technology, and if there is mind control, on some level, we are inviting it in and allowing it to happen.

  11. wow wow wow a cargo cult culture- mighty concept. We are stardust, we are golden and we are part of the creator and we are creators. Our abilities reveal themselves and refer to our origins. I will certainly do some backtracking into the ideas of Mr. Levenda. We need more self knowledge and that will lead us away from the idea that we are all disconnected beings, entities,- the idea of separation creates the wall between ourselves and our correct observation of self and the environment. Great show and thank you both mightily. For example, Putin IS US. Oh, by the way , Whitley, I was just rereading “Communion Letters” and realized that you included a story from Jonesboro, Ar., my home town and around my time frame- perhaps in my parents time just prior to my birth. It is basically an underreported area- a quiet place, full of private moments. I grew up in a dry county. but interesting are the diamonds and the crystals, and of course, Delores Cannon. LOL. but of course, Delores settled in the Ozarks. It is a place to incubate individualism, quietly. I did.

  12. Just wondering what part of The Bronx Peter grew up in. I spent my first 11 years there and the past 36 as well. We’re 3 years apart in age, so maybe we attended the same school, passed each other in the halls. Unlikely, but odd coincidences do happen, as we know.

  13. Superb as always, thank you Whitley and Peter.
    And best wishes to everyone on the site from your friends in the UK! 🙂

  14. Yesterday I watched/listened to this short interview, “From Psychology to Indian Mounds, Part 9, with Dr. Gregory Little UFOs and Indian Mounds, geomagnetic anomalies, and John A. Keel”

    During this interview both Dr. Gregory Little and Brent Raynes speak of an experience while at the INDIAN MOUNDS. The verbal exchange concerns a WHITE FEATHER that disappears while they are at the INDIAN MOUND then LATER reappears. This got my attention since this same occurrence has been mentioned on UNKNOWNCOUNTRY. Then, I also want to express the importance of what the WHITE FEATHER means for me. (Only my feeling here). White Feather was a great leader for the NATIVE AMERICAN PEOPLE, WAS HE WITH THEM AT THE MOUND?

    (((Prophecies of White Feather, a Hopi of the ancient Bear Clan, “He will bring with him the symbols, and the missing piece of that sacred tablet now kept by the elders, given to him when he left, that shall identify him as our True White Brother. “The Fourth World shall end soon, and the Fifth World will begin.)))

    1. So, I just listened to the Dr. Gregory Little and Brent Raynes interview for a second time. I DID NOT hear them say the feather was a WHITE FEATHER. I apologize for that. It felt so right.

    2. Oh, holy camoli, reading your comment about the Indian Mounds, I connected some dots between an experience I had that seemed to come out of the blue. Yet, actually, it happened shortly after visiting the Indian Snake Mounds in Ohio. Hmmm. Interesting. Thank you for sharing your thoughts.

  15. Put this one in the 2022 Top 10 thus far!

    WWII Cargo Cult
    The Gods must be Angry
    ( Coke bottle in Africa movie)

    Makes all the sense in the world… and inspires me to learn more about the Ancient Sumerians.

  16. Oh my! I haven’t listened yet but thrilled that Peter and Whitley are together again. I’ll update this post later; lm so excited.

  17. What an amazing show! It was easy listening to hear Whitley and Peter having a conversation about these incredible topics. Loved it!
    Thank you Whitley and Peter for expanding the mind and spirit.

  18. Peter, Whitley the, ‘Family’ has been pushing their brand of Christianity. No reason not to think it has infiltrated the AirForce.

  19. This was a very important interview for me! Validating especially the ‘force’ that has led me to unexpected but important experiences. Thank you as always Whitley!..

  20. Great show. I’ve read all the gods, man, war books and they are fantastic. Was hoping ttsa would turn them into a tv series like X-Files 2.0.

  21. I loved this show.
    The occurrences with the native tribes of Papua New Guinea where the term cargo cult springs from occurred for many reasons, but they did not have a civilisation anywhere near as sophisticated as evidenced in Ancient Egypt and are hardly comparable.
    As advanced as we think we are today, the remoteness of Ancient Egypt and their lost language still eludes us. Not only do we no longer possess the capacity for magical thinking the way they were capable of, our understanding of the texts we study has been marred by the Victorian era that it has been deciphered through. This is why independent study of the glyphs is a smart move, as Whitley mentioned he has undertaken.
    Hieroglyphs work their magick by functioning on more than one level of meaning, and this has been explained in the works of RA Schwaller de Lubicsz. In other words, Egyptology has given us an aspect of decipherment, but there is an entirely different level of understanding for what is conveyed when it comes to the texts of temple walls and tombs.
    We must also keep in mind the vast length of the civilisation. Old Kingdom Egypt was a very different culture than say 19th Dynasty new Kingdom Egypt where the height of empire was reached. Magickal thinking was still present in the 19th Dynasty (as evidenced famously in King Seti 1st’s temple in Abydos) but it is a different Egypt than that of the pyramid age.
    My advice to unlocking what the ancients related to is to find a dynasty that resonates and study the kings and literature from that epoch rather than biting off Egypt as a whole. The mention of the temple, king and dynasty above might be a good place to start as it is closer in time to us than the pyramid age whose secrets may have been lost by the time Rameses 1st kicked off Dynasty 19.
    We must examine the cult objects the pharaohs and Netjeru are wielding in the texts and temple scenes and ascertain what they actually did and try to replicate it. I suggest examining the purpose, function, and meanings of the ankh, the adze, the uas sceptre (pay good attention to how the top of this staff was fashioned in these earlier dynasties because it altered later) and the djed pillar / staff.
    Finally, the way the Netjeru were depicted in Egypt (and because it was mentioned in the podcast, the Dingir in Sumer also) hold clues for us too, but we must approach Them as divine beings, not principals or a fanciful concoction of primitive minds. This is where our current era has failed us the most as we are still in the stranglehold of monotheism, and – ironically – primitive ideas about god.

  22. Mythology is such a broad and unreliable database, so easy to interpret based on one’s own projected desires and wishes for a reality of one’s own whatever that may be. Not only is it very interpretive, it is reflective of the culture producing it and not so much the reality of our world today. In terms of human timeline, the mythologies (religion) of the Ancients is fairly recent and distilled from previous origin stories, environmental events, and other phenomenon they experienced as well as their own agendas socially and politically (or that of the recorder at least). It’s just an ineffective data set to use to gain useful knowledge about life that is not convoluted and contrived by our own agendas, I have concluded after literally a lifetime of studying it and now teaching it. We take mythology and compare and convolute it then to serve our own agendas, whether religious or not. It seems our egos are wired to look for meaning outside of ourselves and will find it even in the most violent and far-reaching sources, instead of in the beauty of the present moment where it is not the most important thing.

  23. I have to admit, except for my experiences, I consider myself ignorant in all of this. I try to make time to research, but life poses many obstacles. I would not have given much credit to this without you, Whitley. We have spoken of my distrust of Tom. This changes my mind. Great episode, by the way.

Leave a Reply