Normally, magic and the occult are presented in the media either as something to be snickered at or as a supernatural wonder and, often, danger. But there’s more to it than that, much more, and in this searching interview with Carl Abrahamsson, the author of Occulture, Whitley explores the deeper resonances of the age old practices that fall under the rubric of “magic.”

Their conversation about how art and magic intersect is powerfully mind-opening, and the way that Carl explains how magic actually works in the modern world, transforming our lives on a daily basis, is brain-bending.

Whitley talks with Carl about his powerful recent contact experiences and what they mean, and what Anne Strieber’s statement that the visitors are “inward beings” means.

The discussion about William Burroughs, who used to go to Whitley’s cabin in an attempt to meet the visitors, is just one example of how remarkable this show is.

This is a perfect example of why Dreamland is alone at the top of the long list of podcasts discussing the supernatural. There simply is no other place in the world where you are going to get information like this.

Please note that because of all the complimentary information that Carl and Whitley share, this is a discussion rather than a strict question and answer edition of Dreamland.

Carl Abrahamsson’s website is
You can also reach Carl on
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