Jimmy Church, host of Fade To Black, joins Whitley in an about face: Whitley does the interviewing, Jimmy does the talking!

Last week, thanks to Jimmy and John Greenewald of the Black Vault, the US Navy announced that the videos released through To The Stars in late 2017 and carried in important media around the world were, in fact, of unknown objects. In the early stories, Luis Elizondo, a counterintelligence expert said to have been working for the the Undersecretary of Defense for Intelligence had released the videos. But now he has disappeared from the story. (There are even stories claiming that he never worked for the Pentagon at all, but if not, then where did he get classified Navy videos??) Instead, TTSA acting CEO Tom DeLong is being portrayed in the media as having released them.

SO, what’s going on? How did a rock and roller end up as the head of an organization which is concerned with UFOs and appears to be run almost exclusively by intelligence personnel? What are their motives? What can we expect from them? Listen as Jimmy digs deeply into the relationship between the intelligence community and TTSA.

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  1. THIS is what I count on this site to do – dig into what is REALLY going on!

  2. Thank goodness it IS almost over Whitley! The Evangelical Christian’s ARE a faction of the fear mongers and have conrolled the narrative in government to a great degree. Things are changing as populations the world over are doing their own contact, CE 5 , so we will no longer be held captive by these forms of dogma and stupidity. Thank God for that!

  3. This was a classic episode of Dreamland! What a privilege it is to listen to two such erudite and sophisticated gentlemen.

    Thank you both!

  4. real let down – no facts – just guesses – no proof – hoping something better next week.

    1. The conversation may not have had the revelations or “facts” you were looking for, but it was important nevertheless. It opened up a dialog that we can all pick up and carry forward. We have to know who we can trust and who we must be wary of. TTSA may be a completely legitimate group that only wants to help us. However, Whitley doesn’t seem so sure and that fact is very important.

  5. This interview does point out one of the less obvious influences withon our societies. Much of the modern world, especially the western world is founded on Judeo-Christian principles. For the past 2000 years, when challenges to the accepted doctrine arise, religious leaders take action to quash out opposition. Religious leaders become political leaders.
    If we are going to be face to face with something that does not conform to Christian principles, naturally, there will be opposition. Regardless of the message being conveyed, the western world will try to make it conform to accepted norms.
    I have difficulty seeing how a group like TTSA would be able to become influential, providing guidance and leadership when the world is being confronted with a spectacular unknown presence. Will they take “science” and transform it to a new religion where the Visitors are an accepted, inclusive element? This seems to tie in with Diana Pausulka’s work, that the UFO is a religion.

    While it seems like the Visitors are concerned with the US, I wonder how they see the rest of the world.

    1. That is just it. They think they can cut in line. Things have gone past that.
      In 1970 I ran across a supposed mediumnistic hippie in a college classroom decorated with the flags of the nation’s of the world during college orientation.
      I was young. It took me a couple of weeks to realize this guy was a government plant trying to root out radicals on campus.
      He was a Brady Bunch u undercover agent.
      The TTSA is The same thing.

  6. Thanks guys great show. The truth is so elusive, if there even is such a thing. Irregardless we seem to be headed somewhere fast, hopefully with minimal suffering.

  7. I agree…….(This interview was much too short).

    About the visitors and religion. Today I attended a baptism in a church called, ‘THE GATHERING.’ It is a branch of the Methodist Church. All I can say is, IT IS THRIVING in a way I would have not expected in todays world. YES, it is a different flavor of the church I grew up in BUT the message is the same, sooo many young families; almost every seat filled. In my opinion some sort of spiritual need/calling will always be in play as long as we as a species are here on this planet. Of course, ONLY my opinion.


  8. Good to hear Jimmy say TTSA may turn out great and fruitful (without deception) in 3 years.
    1 prior historical example for ttsa was NICAP and all its eager CIA and military membership. A good look by historians (like J. Clark) of all that revealed they were interested in the subject and part of the insider faction open to serious investigation. And, not with a deceptive agenda. The seeming main fear about ttsa is they will deceptively control the narrative and unnecessarily instill a picture that falsely suggests we have something to fear. Personally, the ttsa cast of characters seem to me to be clueless outsiders with the role of clued -in SAP insiders unknown. And, i have no idea what the real insiders are up to but if you examine the personal histories of each of these guys, we can see Puthoff, Mellon, Elizondo, etc seem to be honest people and on a hunt for answers themselves.
    All along, the Lorenzens may have been right about the fruitless distraction of the issues Keyhoe had us pondering.
    Look at how ttsa develops The Vault and the public participation in that.
    Maybe Jimmy will end up smiling in 3 years.

    1. Puthoff’s aviary history, his involvement supposedly in confusion-engineering episodes like that crazy serpo email chain drama that kit green was part of (he later described motives to ryan dube), arent good personal history but it was the game of outsiders shaking the apple tree, lol.

      Waste of time.

      Dont tell anyone…but i think Ardy Clarke has better intel than the real insiders in the govt, related to this. LOL

  9. Excellent interview, getting to in interview Jimmy Church must have been a rush.

  10. Has anyone here actually watched the TTS series on History Channel? I thought it was well done if not drawn out. But think they are making a real effort and onto something. Sure they worked for government – THEY ADMIT THAT! Isn’t this site about what the “facts” not where someone worked? Or is there real animosity because Tom Delong won’t interview here? Is this about personal issues or getting to the truth? NOTHING said in this show was any help in that journey except to make conspiracy advocates say – “see I told you so!”. Sadly Whitley this really makes me doubt your sincerity!

  11. Author

    I have watched the series. I deeply resent your attitude toward me. I am not some vindictive little worm who deals in sour grapes, Mr. Trubilla. My concern is that TTSA appears to be an intelligence community operation fronted by a rock and roll singer who cannot in any way be equipped to evaluate what they tell him. He has already gone on Joe Rogan talking about all sorts of strange and unproven stuff. I am very wary of the motives of the intelligence community in this, as they have been keeping these matters secret for generations. I think that we should be very careful with this whole business, and I believe that history supports my concern.

  12. As always, thought-provoking material that challenges our assumptions in the face of the unknown. But I have some questions. For one thing, TTSA has, so far, taken the healthy view that they will let the data speak for itself, whether it be based on the video footage or the supposed exotic materials they now have in their possession. To date, I have not heard TTSA go a step further than that. But I agree that the technology/national security view TTSA seemingly espouses is (and will prove to be) remarkably short-sighted and incomplete given the incredibly complex nature of this phenomenon we now understand through experiencers like Whitley. If the public goes to TTSA for answers under these circumstances we will miss a golden opportunity to say the least.

    Understand that some of the videos were outed before TTSA “released” them but I thought that TTSA’s release was historical because they had documented a chain of custody that led back to DoD, thereby, for the fist time, authenticating the videos and their source. It followed later that DoD admitted their authenticity and unknown nature. TTSA likely would not have been able to achieve that if not for the connections of their board members.

    I’ve also heard TTSA repeat several times that they are attempting to work fully within existing security protocols, classification systems and any member’s personal security oath. That alone can put up more roadblocks than I can imagine, and take time.

    Overall, however, what Whitley said rings truest for me. I also sense fear from TTSA. And that’s not going to be good enough.

  13. Author

    Yes, they say that they will let the data speak for itself, but they are also in control of the data. From the beginning, the government has focused on technology and national security and, as you say, looking in the wrong place. I know that most of the people on that board take a very dim view of the visitors, and if you read the books that have been put out by Tom and Peter Levenda, you can see exactly what they think.

    From my experience and knowing what I do about so many other contacts with the visitors, I do not think that this is sufficient. The business is not all sweetness and light, for sure, but it’s not all weapons and fights, either. Unless the nuance and the complexity are recognized, there is nothing ahead of any real value to anybody.

    I also worry about disinformation. Given that TTSA has its hands on real information, the classic trick of inserting a false narrative into the real story and altering its meaning in ways that suit those in control can be done here with ease, and the media, as always, will feed blindly and we will miss our chance to make meaningful connection with the visitors, which is our main chance.

    These people live as if the world will always be as it is now, with stable, established societies and a government that can continue to hide whatever it wants to hide.

    If–or perhaps when–we find ourselves dealing with things like flooding, vast destruction and even famine, those things will no longer be true and chaos will ensue. I don’t think it’s a good idea for us to end up in a situation of helplessness with only the visitors to turn to. Remember “a new world–if you can take it.” We need to be strong enough to do just that.

    1. I havent read Tom’s books but from what I read about them the thesis is that the Greek gods were aliens and the stories reflect a history of warring ET factions who manipulate and exploit us in that context.

      The only antidote to the error of our imaginative projections is to study the actual history. I see so many errors on that front on Ancient Aliens. By the time they asserted Buddha was an alien and Shiva and Jesus also, it became clear that they had really gone off the rails.

      Very disempowering notions! We really are cool artists often going in weird directions.

      1. Author

        The process of turning the previous culture’s mystery figures into those of the current culture is something people just do. The Greek gods emerged out of the Greek mind, just as TTSA’s aliens emerge out of the minds of the intelligence officers involved. What is disturbing is that their authoritative credentials make it seem as if there is some truth in the folklore they’re spreading. I’ve been told on the QT myself that the Greek gods were really aliens. But I also know a lot about the history of Greek culture, and those gods develop in a very clear line from earliest times into the classical era. They are almost certainly a product of the human mind. I say “almost” because there is so much about our world and our past that we obviously do not yet understand. However, Greek mythology reveals the actions of their gods as being very human. Read about Zeus and his wife Hera and how furious he made her with his infidelities. That’s not alien at all, that’s US!

        1. Wow, i had recently started looking at the record of how the Greek gods story developed and you just underlined the key point that seems clearly evident in that.

          Also, in addition to the very human, the transpersonal realizations arise from us (and Jesus, Buddha, Shiva were humans, Siva in earliest representations a master of animal husbandry, for example)

        2. My antidote to reading Von Daniken’s Gold of the Gods (where Greek gods are represented as ET first, perhaps) is reading Edith Hamilton’s Mythology. When is Tom’s birthday? I will gift him that.
          Zeus started out being associated with rain, and then an immortalized fictional human character with clear human failings that entertained, and by 200 CE kinda like a version of Jesus.

  14. I personally don’t know what to think of TTSA. I know I can talk to friends and they can’t say its all crazy, because I can reply “its on CNN, Fox, New York Times” etc. They did that, or at least were successful at it. That said, I still can’t talk about abductions, its too uncomfortable but the soul of this subject IS the personal connection not the radar data or the craft doing unbelievable things.

    The new world still seems far away to me, at least as member of the general public. Maybe its not meant to be that way. I just don’t know??

    Has Tom (TTSA) addressed the abduction subject? I don’t think he has, at least not in detail.

  15. “These people live as if the world will always be as it is now, with stable, established societies and a government that can continue to hide whatever it wants to hide.
    If–or perhaps when–we find ourselves dealing with things like flooding, vast destruction and even famine, those things will no longer be true and chaos will ensue. I don’t think it’s a good idea for us to end up in a situation of helplessness with only the visitors to turn to. Remember “a new world–if you can take it.” We need to be strong enough to do just that.”

    So, Whitley…….According to this CNN ARTICLE, 1% of the world population is preparing for an apocalypse.


    1. Author

      I think that those people are quite likely to perish in their bunkers. It isn’t about bunkers, I don’t think. It’s about banding together as a species and working to make sure this does NOT happen.

      1. Yes, Whitley. I agree with you, I especially like this quote…….

        Don’t worry so much where you live but how you live. Make the family of man your family as well. (Edgar Cayce On the Millennium Chapter One – The great new planet earth.)

  16. Author

    That’s the sort of thing that they should be doing. I don’t think that they are the ones feeding disinfo to DeLonge. I’ve known Puthoff for many years, and he is a good man, in my opinion. I do not know Elizondo.

    Somebody else gets him to go for this guff. Not sure who. Maybe somebody we can’t see. So many players out there.

    As to why they do it, the objective is to confuse things and keep people off balance. This way, nobody ever manages to zero in on the truth, which my guess is that somebody is here, all right, and they are in total control of what they do and the gov’t can’t do anything whatsoever about it.

    I think we can communicate with them and live with them and that this will be a better way of life than we have now. That’s what A New World is about. It’s not even necessary to know where they are from or what they are or what if anything they had to do with our past in order to succeed with this.

    1. Many of us are simply going to listen to y’all having contact experiences. Not anything government folks say. I dont think Hal or the others have adopted Tom’s views, which may have their genesis in von Daniken’s 2nd book where he outlines his assessment that there was an ancient ET war impacting us with losing refugees from that war emerging to start a civilization.

      I dont know Hal but 15 years ago, out of the blue (after a heads up from kit green), he emailed me with then-recently declassified material on remote viewing. (I was preparing online articles on rv history.) That was very kind and helpful.

    2. Some of your facts are wrong about Lue Elizondo, and Jimmy has a cynical, albeit hopeful, view of TTSA. For that reason, I don’t give much weight to Jimmy’s opinion on the subject and find it to be too conspiratorial (although, I completely sympathize with Whitley’s concerns considering what the intelligence agencies have put him through). The reason TTSA doesn’t give John Greenwald any credit, in my opinion, is because he has been attacking them, calling Tom Delonge and Elizondo (and TTSA in general) lier’s, for quite awhile. I didn’t even know who Greenwald was until Whitley interviewed him recently, but I’ve learned a lot about him since, Greenwald’s scepticism goes way beyond just being a result of rational caution, there is a clear jealousy involved. The only reason Greenwald was even contacting the Navy in this regard was because he wanted to prove that TTSA wasn’t legit. Well, it backfired, Greenwald was shocked (by his own admission) when the Navy ended up confirming what TTSA had already stated about the videos. Fact is, Greenwald doesn’t deserve credit, he has only confirmed what TTSA had already stated, that’s not a discovery or a revelation deserving of praise, it’s just a confirmation of information brought forth by someone else. Greenwald can also be extremely rude to those that don’t agree with him and he blocks anyone on Twitter who asks even simple questions that he doesn’t like. I think a lot of egos in the ufology world, like Greenwald’s, were upended when Delonge received the UFO Researcher of the Year Award and they’ve been gunning for Delonge ever since. I don’t think this should be such a big surprise to anyone, ufology has always been rife with infighting and selfish personalities that want to control the narrative. I agree with Whitley that we should be cautious about what comes from TTSA, but there is a lot of unfounded naysaying going around as well. I have a few contacts on Twitter that have inside access to TTSA and I’ve been working on getting TTSA to have Delonge and/or Elizondo give Whitely an interview. I think an interview would resolve a lot of the misconceptions. Honestly, I think TTSA should give the interview, it would be good for us all.

      1. For some reason, ttsa doesnt respond to reach outs via their contact form. I had some good ideas (like them commisioning a public survey and hiring a historian).

        They cracked the door open, Lue is a hero imo, Tom is immature imo, and they have their part to play but i have felt for 5 decades that the Lorenzen focus on contact experiences was much more illuminating than the Keyhoe focus on the govt stuff. I find it frustrating that everyone is gossiping about this and that and not studying.

      2. I think JG is trying to make peace with the “young guns” who are the most enthusiastic ttsa supporters: he had a great interview with Teresa Tindal who recently joined forces with Steve Bassett in DC. There is also another lobbyist there now, Chase Kloetze.

  17. Author

    I’d be glad to interview them, but I don’t quite know how. Early on, Tom declined, but that’s no big deal to me. Doing this for 20 years, I’m not exactly upset by the occasional decline. In any case, I asked him through Peter Levenda as I have no direct way to contact him, so I can’t be sure of anything there.

    As to the difference between my approach and theirs, it is really profound. I live with the visitors in my life and have all of my adult life since 40 and my childhood until age about 12. Life with them is not easy. It’s really strange. But I just don’t see the horrors that people like Jim Semivan and Bob Bigelow do. The reason for this is simple: the visitors react negatively to people they see as hostile to them. And, as they are so strange to begin with, this causes quite a psychological kerfuffle, you may be sure.

    It’s also true that the Air Force hates them. Because its mission is to control our airspace, they have been shooting at them since 1947.

    Of course their reaction to being shot at and treated as hostile is negative.

    On the other hand, if you read the FREE report or listen to my interview with Rey Hernandez of FREE, you will find that the average close encounter witness is very much like me: initial struggle, followed by a relationship that gradually becomes very fruitful.

    Behind the cloak of secrecy, there are a lot of people who have been handling this whole situation very poorly from early days. Fortunately, the visitors have gone around them and put their case before the ordinary man, who appears to be handling the situation with wisdom and aplomb. (It is also true that some of the people on the inside have very sophisticated visions of and relationships with the visitors, but not on the military and military/intelligence street.)

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