Every once in a while, Whitley and a guest truly get into each other’s minds, and that happens big time on this terrific show! Daniel Pinchbeck is one of the most important thinkers in the world on subjects such as the meaning of the hallucinogenic experience, alternative views of alien contact and new visions of reality.

Listen as he takes us down one curious and wonderful path after another, challenging our most basic understanding of the nature of reality and the world around us at every turn! (For, example, you will never have heard anything quite like his views on Q-Anon and real conspiracy theories.

Daniel, working with Dr. Sean Esbjorn-Hargens, has created an amazing new course that is one of the subjects Whitley covers with him in the interview. Whitley will be joining them as a guest on September 29. To learn more about the course, click here.

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  1. I haven’t listened to this show yet as I’ll probably fall asleep if I try tonight – but question for Whitley… I remember you and Daniel locked horns for a bit on a show some years back. As I recall he was accusing you of acting as some gatekeeper for sinister beings to which you strongly disagreed with that. I can’t help but recall the MOTK and how he said certain things like “this world is governed from a higher level” and that you “had the priveledge of meeting your enemy face to face.” Taking those two statements together and looking at the direction things are going on this old rock, I don’t get a good feeling about this anymore. Do you ever question whether people with such opinions might be on to something? Not necessarily referring to you and your involvement with the visitors, but whether or not we might be being led into a very complicated trap by something exceedingly cunning? Things are just eerie right now, and I can’t put my finger on it, but I can’t help it that my mind keeps coming back to the visitors.

      1. He’s referring to the ‘Master of the Key’ from Whitley’s excellent book ‘The Key’.

        1. Thanks, I have read ‘The Key’ and it is an excellent book!

    1. I remember that. I think DP referred to the idea that Whitley was making a bleak future a self-fulfilling prophecy by referring to it so often and in such inevitable terms.

  2. Daniel Pinchbeck should also look into the Tech company’s use of AI and sophisticated algorithms that are out of their control. This is another cause for mankind’s stress and insanity.

  3. So glad to have Jeremy Vaeni back! I always loved his show, and he contributes to a stellar lineup with Mike Clelland and Mia. William Henry seems to have gone off the deep end, don’t care to have him back.

  4. Welcome back Kotter……. Oops! That would be JEREMY. So very glad to have you back.


    Daniel and Whitley, I want to have hope for the future of humankind, I REALLY DO! There are so many people I love and want them to have a healthy planet/future/healthy minds.

    “Hoping for the best, prepared for the worst, and unsurprised by anything in between.”
    ― Maya Angelou

    “The caged bird sings with a fearful trill,
    of things unknown, but longed for still,
    and his tune is heard on the distant hill,
    for the caged bird sings of freedom.”
    ― Maya Angelou, I Know Why the Caged Bird Sings

  5. Oh my word! I can’t believe this synchronicity! I am 54 years old – no “space cadet”, I haven’t been “stoned” since the 20th Century. But I decided to do “Hawaiin Baby Wood Rose” seeds last night, which can produce a powerful spiritual experience – a natural LSD (LSA to be exact). It’s often a hard trip though – not very hallucinogenic, very introspective …. anyway. I have seen 4 UFO’s in the past year, so I took the HBWR seeds in order to facilitate contact (and, if I had a trippy experience too, all well and good, so I thought). Anyway – I took them. I was shown layers, with humanity being on a certain layer and the grey “aliens” being on the top layer, the top layer was a membrane that bordered the God infinity, and the individual alien souls were dimples upon this membrane, whereas human souls were like individual grains lower down. All have a pull to join the God infinity. Because they are dimples on a higher membrane, with deep connectivity, and as we (our souls) are individual floating grains on a lower level, we are too different to converse with the greys in ways that we understand (in our normal relationships to things and each other). When enlightened, we have the ability though, to ascend through their membrane into the God infinity. Whereas they don’t – and they don’t perceive that as altogether good. They do though, gain from the process of our ascensions into the God infinity. What holds us back from ascension is our ego, and the basis of ego is fear (not love). Fear of death, failure, mockery, poverty, loneliness – everything, but fear is also like the hammer beating a piece of metal into shape (this imagery I was shown) so fear is a tool that is used upon us within our lives, so-to-speak. We experience it to know it, to overcome it. I was invited to step into the God infinity but I would have to leave myself (Zac) behind. I don’t think it was a serious proposition, as I am not ready, but of course I was too fearful to do it – and therein was the lesson perhaps. The whole thing was delivered without words. There was a sense of hurry to it, almost of impatience, like: “be quiet and listen”. I didn’t feel as if I were in the warm glow of universal love, I didn’t feel as if I was in the presence of anything sinister either – it was like being in a cold maths class at school, under the gaze of a strict teacher. The information was wonderous – but the experience wasn’t. I wanted to see the aliens – and I was told no, and for 2 reasons, firstly, I would only see their physical “husks”, their bodies. I was shown discarded nut shells, these husks were metaphorically like their bodies …. Ie: not the whole thing, and something of lesser importance. Also, they don’t want to give me “grand stories” of physically meeting them, and of being taken to this or that place – that would merely feed my ego, which would profit me nothing, and do me a disservice. I was also shown that the additional (supplementary) party effects I was hoping for in the seeds, were a dead end, of no relevance to me. I started getting fascinated by the words – contact & construct (noun) & contract, and I wanted to make a new word “contruct” to mean all of those at the same time, neither verb nor noun! I was in a state of “contruct” !! Also “Communion” : co-union. In my personal life, I also realised that I had become too angry at people whose intentions were only to create something “beautiful” and beneficial – but all I had seen was their foolishness and oversight, whether I was right or wrong about their ham fisted approach, in my anger, I totally lost sight of their good intentions, and I let fear dominate my reaction to them – causing harm. The experience was HARD – I am exhausted. Anybody that wants euphoria, pretty colours, sociability and good times …. don’t do it.

  6. whitley – please research George Soros – there are OTHER people at the root of the current chaos.

  7. Oh boy – “the right wing”, “Mein Kampf”, “The Nazis” Hitler, Hitler, Hitler, Mein Kampf, Mein Kampf, Mein Kampf, NAZIS NAZIS NAZIS, Hitler’s freakin house blah blah blah, does Whitley have an SS battle flag stapled to his bedroom wall to remind him of what to talk about every day? – Can we just give that WW2 shit a rest for ten minutes, he’s been dead 75 years, he was born in the 1880’s – can we stop carrying his putrid corpse on our shoulders, and put him down? …. It never ends. Hitler was a tyrant guilty of mass murder but I’m sick of the leftist crocodile tears! They just use him to virtue signal. The left and Islam killed 5 times more people in the 20th century than the NAZIS – Mao alone killed 80 million, Stalin killed millions, and Pol Pot wiped out a third of his own country – in terms of his own nation he made Hitler look like a part timer. BUT if I had a dollar for every time in the last 20 years that Whitley and his guests had talked about Hitler, I could go on holiday to Florida with the money, or maybe buy a small boat. If I had a dollar for every time they had talked about the evils of communism or Islam (check out what happened to the Armenians or South Sudanese) then perhaps I could buy myself an ice cream. So biased …………

    1. Author

      You fault me for being biased against Hitler. That says volumes about both of us. It is possible to be anti-Nazi without being a leftist, incidentally.

      1. No your bias isn’t “against Hitler” – your bias is against the 100 million victims of Islam and Communism who you rarely (if ever) mention. “It is possible to be anti-Nazi without being a leftist, incidentally” – I totally agree, I am a an anti-NAZI, and no leftist. And me calling Hitler a “tyrant guilty of mass murder” hardly qualifies me for a NAZI sympathiser me thinks. I hate ALL atrocity committed in the 20th Century, hence the bulk of my scorn and opprobrium goes to the left – because the bulk of all politically motivated slaughter was conducted by the left. This is hard historical fact – not a matter of opinion. ///// …. I am not here to troll you. I have read all your books Whitley (although the repetition of anecdotes is getting to be a bit of drag lately) …… I have an implant between my eyes, it’s come out on an x-ray, and I’ve seen 4 UFO’s in the last 12 months, and about 15 years ago they took semen from me — I am part of this thing. You are many many miles in front of me though, I rely on you as my pathfinder, as you are the only person I can find making sense out of any of this, but in doing so, must I really listen to “Donald Trump studied Mein Kampf” – can you not accept that people of all political persuasions listen to you? Must you go out of your way to piss off and alienate your politically conservative followers?

        1. I’ll just say the Nazi subject holds a significant role in the ufo subject/conspiracy topic, Socialism leftists movements not so much. Seemed like a fair topic for this website. The connections to Trump do seem obvious to me obviously not to others. No surprise we have the divide we now suffer from.

          The whole avoiding politics regarding climate talk is impossible because that’s all that’s left. The right conservative political movement made it so many years ago. The visitors have made it known its a problem and ours alone. I’m sorry politics is our biggest road block now.

          1. In a relationship there are 2… parties, and it is definitional that the actions of both equally define the situation.

        2. Your polarization and commitment to labeling and categorizing people will not serve any good purpose. It’s unfortunate that you have a “team spirit” approach to these difficult and complex topics because that is largely at the root of the problem. I dislike the label “leftist” because it has a tinge of the image of Castro in his army fatigues to me. As a person of liberal political persuasion who also lived through the Cold War and has no love for Nazis or communism or its Marxist roots. I love democracy and free choice but I do not think it will work as a battle between teams that are only interested in reinforcing themselves. There is quite a bit of evidence that there is both Russian interference and Nazi sympathizing (at best) influencing those at the highest tier of the leadership in the U.S. We are all on the same team here and being blind to that reality because of internal polarization is going to bring us all down.

          1. Author

            I hope that you aren’t referring to me and this website. I have made no secret of the fact that I’m a political moderate and a believer in government by dialogue and consensus.

    2. It is unfortunate that the things that Hitler stood for do not seem to go away, but that is hardly Whitley’s fault. Humanity must be vigilant against the re-emergent of this persistent shadow of humanity because it is persistent. It’s good to be aware and to discuss the topic. It’s not good to put your head in the sand because you are so polarized and all you can do is project that onto others. Sad.

    3. Its always a classic debate whether the NSDAP was right wing or left wing. Also, if you go to Florida take me with you. I want to see Avatar land.

  8. So enjoyed this. Daniel is a brilliant guest. Im completely stressed that both of you indicated – or clearly stated – that a second Trump term seems like a near certainty. Horrifying.

    1. What would be the end of us completely would be a takeover by the CCP via the left, as we are seeing. I marvel, honestly, at what many seem to believe Trump has done that is not in the interest of the US- for once.

      1. What is the CCP? If you mean the CCCP, the Soviet Union, it is gone. If you mean Russia, the presidential candidate with connections to that country is Trump. As far as what Trump has done that is not in the interest of the US, one thing would be that we have 4% of the world’s population and 20% of the COVID deaths. He has done everything he can to lead us AWAY from protecting ourselves from the virus. And Biden is no leftie, incidentally.

        1. She’s referring to the Chinese Communist Party, although most folk simply (albeit not accurately) refer to them as “China”.

          And agreed, Biden is definitely not left-wing, his policies are far too centrist to be considered commie-bait.

        2. CCP – Chinese Communist Party, backing the Left. Trump isn’t tied to Russian interference, Hillary, Brennan, et. al. were and are.

      2. There is no “us and them”. That’s an illusion based on culture and reactionary thinking. All we have is ourselves, all of us. If we’re cruel, it’s to us; if we’re kind, it’s to us. If we stand by and let people die preventable deaths, we did it to ourselves and we will know it.

        Responsibility, or what is our response ability. Do we respond to the best of our ability, the worst or whatever is easiest?

  9. The energy in the room feels uneasy of late.

    Firstly, I have to say, that although I found this interview fascinating, there was a subtle undercurrent in Daniel’s demeanour that didn’t sit right with me. I can’t quite put my finger on it…only to say, that it made me feel unsettled.

    Secondly, that sense amplified somewhat reading Justin’s post at the top, which interestingly Whitley hasn’t responded to yet.

    And thirdly, Zac’s two posts above…talk about chalk and cheese…my word.

    And collectively, I can’t help feeling there is some connection with Jeremy making a return… like some kind of energetic backlash… which suggests to me that whatever insights he is bringing back with him, will be well worth listening to.

  10. I agree Sherbet. I see the site as a space for people on serious spiritual quests. I understand Whitley’s motive in doing shows in a political season that touch on issues, but maybe he and Daniel should have talked more about the spiritual quest involved in the use of hallucinogens and less about the political situation.

    Whitley, look what came creeping out of the darkness.

    1. My feelings about Daniel’s demeanour stand on their own and had nothing to do with the political content of the show. Where political discussion does arise and especially where it touches on global issues, I often find it difficult to ignore, as we cannot help but be entwined within it. It almost feels like an Octopus that won’t let go…you peel one leg off and another one replaces it….difficult to ignore, regardless of the ‘Happy thoughts’ you might be trying to distract yourself with. Where there is a U.S. bias, I often find my attention waning…but find it interesting none-the-less, as I appreciate there is still a significant connection.

      But sometime I feel like it is almost intentionally placed to sap our resolve, to distract us from important inner work…but like a distracting thought during meditation, demanding our attention, it is also an important part of the work of re-directing attention, once lost.

      The undercurrent of unease I mentioned, was more about a general perceived lengthening of a hidden shadow and the slight chill that brings when it crosses our path.

  11. Whitley made one of the most important observations on this show. He said, “The whole experience from ’85 to right now has had a component in it of a moral journey in it, in which the more I have practiced an active moral life-in other words I’ve tried to understand what a moral life is and to be as morally impeccable as I am capable of, and as I’ve done that, my experience with the visitors has become less and less frightening. IT’S AS IF MY OWN SHADOW HAS BEEN DISPELLED IN SOME WAY (capitalization for emphasis). For me this captures the evolution of Whitley’s work and perhaps Whitely as a man.

    For those of you who feel scratchy about “politics” entering into this show, I recommend you meditate deeply on that. Politics enters into every facet of life and there is much shadow work to be done in and around politics. In my experience, we can’t have a “spiritual space” that is all love and light. Darkness and shadow will follow us there and if we meditate on this, we will understand where our real work must begin. 

    1. Thanks Jedi1. Not talking politics when it affects us so much especially this year, is impossible. Climate Change which shouldn’t be a political issue has become one. With all respect to the visitors, there is no way humans can address this issue without it.

      1. Al Gore should have emphasized the environment in his campaign a lot more than he did. We would be ahead and CC would not even be much of a controversy by now.

    2. That’s a bingo. This is the hardest thing we may ever do, and ignoring the things that make it hard gets us nothing.

    3. Thank you Jedi1 for your observations about politics and shadow as we earthlings are facing a rapidly changing world. When conservative political folk are so dismissive of the natural world only seeing it as a way to increase profits and manipulating public opinion to that end how can it not come up in discussions? Respectful discussions…

  12. Author

    That’s a very astute comment, Jedi11. There is a show about Dispelling Wetiko in the archive that addresses this process of intentionally enacting the good. The principles discussed on that show and in the book dovetailed with an effort I had been led to by the visitors to consciously live from the good in my own heart.

    I found that the more I lived from love, enacted compassion to the best of my ability and valued my own humility, the more my relationship with them transformed and continues to transform.

  13. Another top rate show. I’ll probably listen to it twice to make sure I didn’t miss anything. And having Jeremy come back will be absolutely great. This is hands down, the BEST website of it’s kind around!, there’s simply nothing else like it.

  14. Our evolved monkey brain is so easily drawn into polarization because it is a physical, biological machine that, like all matter, based on polarization and binary thinking. It likes to compartmentalize, define, and categorize; it’s tribal and territorial as a result. It wants the security of the framework that it knows and can understand, which is not the spiritual, that is outside of space and time as we understand it. Yet, we continue to try to understand our world through that means. I agree that you really have to connect to your truth for the situation. It is not about us/them. It is all “us”.

  15. So Whitley, does “ByeDon” play into the name game? We shall see soon enough…..maybe not soon enough.

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