Both subscribers and free listeners will get the full audio of this special.

Some will say that we’re going too far down the rabbit hole this week, but that’s a big part of our job here on Dreamland! There is significant evidence that chemtrails are a real phenomenon, that 5G has negative health effects, that Morgellon’s Syndrome is not a psychological disorder and the full story of Coronavirus has not been told. So, let’s explore, and to do that we call on Elana Freeland?  She has written deeply researched books on chemtrails, HAARP and the military concept of “full spectrum dominance” and what that means to those of us on the receiving end, and this week we find out what she believes all of this means.

As always, with his unique background, Whitley delves into these subjects in ways that other hosts simply cannot. Thus you will hear a deep discussion about everything from his early experiences with the predecessor to MK-ULTRA to Elana’s explanation of how the Finders scandal of 1985 and more recently how Jeffrey Epstein and his Lolita Express may be connected to a legendary horror story about something known as adrenochrome.

Keep up with Elana’s work on her website, and get her books through us by clicking here!

Elana will be appearing at various venues in California starting on February 14. Don’t miss this unique opportunity to listen to her and meet her. Learn more here.

Next week: Linda Moulton Howe opens the door to Antarctic secrets as never before!


  1. So much is coming into focus for me right now, and it is difficult to absorb it all (…and I had a stroke in May last year!)

    I will keep this short (because I can now only type with one finger!) I’ll also narrow down to one small part of this whole discussion, that of the ‘Space Fence’. We now have a new Space Force. We have TTSA, with its ties to the military and intelligence communities. Then there is this, the exotic metal material that Linda Moulton Howe had for years and it is now in being researched by the military:

    “There are materials and technologies of interest that TTSA possesses that we will evaluate and exploit.”
    Jerry Aliotta, a U.S. Army spokesperson.

    I wonder how LMH feels about all of this now? Any thoughts on this Whitley?

    1. Author

      Linda was paid $35,000 for her piece. As I have never been asked for mine, I am not sure how I would react to such an offer. I would not want to sell it into a program that sought to weaponize the technology in it.

      With regard to our government’s effort to resist, bear in mind that, as I point out in A New World, they have been intentionally stirred up like an ant bed with provocations that are essentially benign but appear to be quite dangerous and can even be lethal to anybody who is too aggressive. As far as our side is concerned, it seems to me that we’re fighting a secret war and have been for years. The interest the visitors have in this is to induce rapid scientific and technological advancement by provoking us into action instead of offering us the sort of helping hand that would cause us to cease to innovate on our own and become supplicants and therefore of no interest to them.

      On the public side, we have been subjected to a classic example of the initiatory experience. That is to say, we have been devastatingly challenged by this sudden and intrusive appearance of the unknown in many millions of lives. This has left us both individually and collectively face-to-face with a frightening reality that has completely overturned our vision of the world and our understanding of life. We have all had three basic choices: ignore what happened and bury it within ourselves; be frozen with anger by it; face it and, as best we can, seek to learn from it.

      I chose the latter approach. Many others have, too. Deep Prasad has, I think, chosen it. Rey Hernandez who founded Free has chosen it. Most of those of you who come to this website, which is intended as an engine of contact, have chosen it.

      This means, incidentally, the the government, secretly fighting what we are seeking to engage with, takes a dim view of the site, of me, this site, and of all that is unfolding here and among us. This would be why, thus far, no TTSA person will interview with me, and why I have recently lost two friends who were involved on the government side but also friendly to me. But it’s a complex question. The TTSA people I’ve tried to reach may not know that I have done so. Emails do have a funny way of just disappearing…

      I thought long and hard about whether or not to do a show with Elana. She is a solid researcher, though, and I believe that she is entirely sincere. There is more reason to entertain the possibility that she is right than wrong about many of the things she has uncovered. For example, for years, Morgellon’s Disease was considered psychosomatic by the medical profession. Now, when you click on the link to the Mayo Clinic’s description of the disease, it says that more study is needed. I was also introduced to someone with the disease at Contact in the Desert 3 years ago. It was not psychosomatic. The lesions were perfectly obvious and appeared as they do in the literature.

      I also think that 5G is being rolled out without proper environmental testing, and this is being done worldwide not because it is known to be safe, but because the technology companies involved have overwhelming power of persuasion in the form of money.

      It is nevertheless unusual for Dreamland to do a show like this because I am concentrating here more on what the visitors are interested in, which is the building of strong souls. I did it because, while anger can retard the development of a soul, the friction involved in facing fearful realities offers transformational possibilities.

      1. I have chosen to learn from it all as well…As for TTSA, I also attempted to engage with them very early on and even asked them questions that they treated with downright rudeness. How dare I ask questions? They have a rock star, Hal Puthoff, and Luis Elizondo…And an attitude that some of us who have been involved with this for most of our lives could not possibly have anything to contribute (except money). So…Their treatment of you does not surprise me at all, and I hope that they continue to engage with Linda, and not drop her like a hot potato now that they have secured the prize of the strange metal. (Would they tell anyone if they did find it was important?)

        We must continue to explore and engage as much as we can. We must continue to work on the strength of our souls…It matters so much in ways that we haven’t discovered.

        Great interview, and more things worth pondering! And without fear…That’s the way to get it done!

      2. This podcast and all that it represents is precisely why I passionately endorse, support, and subscribe to Dreamland and all that you do, Whitley, in your bold and vital exploration of what is going on inside this vast topic, in all its variety. I can’t thank you enough for speaking about the topics and with the people you do on this site. Like many people here, I feel we are in highly volatile, challenging, yet potentially enlightening times, in a way that our planet has never known before. That is also why I feel your new book (which I read over Thanksgiving and love as much as your others) is doing so well on Amazon. The time is now. We can’t stop. THANK YOU.

      3. Whitley, we had a concersation, albeit small, once on Messenger about your implant. I mentioned that I feel nanotech is used by us and the Others (visitors). Pary of this plays right into what I was trying to convey. You being held down with a device pressed to your ear, sounded to me like they were trying to congregate the the nanites that had colonized your body. Hell, they could have put nanite laced favorites in your fridge! Why else donwe have implants with no scars? Of course, they take small samples, Others and MILAB alike, as to change the programming according to life changes. We may have the same programming from birth, but biologically we update through our lives. A good example is the rheumatoid arthritis malfunction. Our own immune system backfires and attacks our joints.

    2. Im replying here because by the time you’d get close to my comment, you’ll be tired.
      Look at Shungite. It is a supposed stone that can in some points conduct electricity. Please look at it. i use a pyramid sometimes at night to blunt WiFi.
      And THATS why I poo-poo on chemtrails. The real question is: where do planes NOT fly? AND… is it in jet fuel as a premix or a quiet add in as it goes in the tank?

  2. Your guest is a little confused about what Quantum Mechanics is and dimensionality. She is as dark and paranoid as any guest you have had. What the truth in what she says is happening is i’m not sure but think there are other possibilities. How else do you build matter if you don’t start with atoms? Huh?

    1. Author

      Dark yes, but paranoid? Not so sure. In this crazy world we live in, I often think that, if you’re not perhaps at least a bit paranoid, you’re not entirely sane.

  3. About JFK:

    2. “JFK’s Russian Conspiracy
    Kennedy had his own secret back channel with Moscow. It may have kept the superpowers from going to war.”

    3. “JFK Blows The Whistle on Secret Societies!”

    4. “JFK and the Federal Reserve
    Was he assassinated because he opposed the Fed?”

    My guess is that the last one was the drop that filled the bucket for deep state.

    Saddam Hussein had announced that he was going to sell the Iraqi oil for the € (Euro), no longer for the (petro) dollar.

    Later Gadaffi announced he was going to sell the Libyan oil for the golden dinar, and infroduce that coin into all of Africa.

    We know what happened to both of them and their countries.

    Those are just a few examples of how deep state works. Ask John Perkins a.k.a the “Economic Hitman.”

    One could go on and on about so many things the corporate media have lied to the public about, but I stop here.

  4. Kind of hopeless……… you are right…. strong souls are what is needed

  5. According to this lady its over. Turn out the lights. go ahead and delete this now.

    1. Author

      Over? Not at all. If she thought it was over, she wouldn’t be out there yelling and waving her arms, after all.

  6. Author

    Soul craft–building a strong soul–is as beautiful and rewarding a work as a human being can engage in.

    1. Mr. Strieber, you once said that if you came back to this planet in a thousand years you would find a living hell with nobody able to tune out the thoughts of others.

      Could you go into this a bit more one day?

      Thank you for reading.

      1. Author

        I don’t remember stating that as an expectation. I do recall saying that, if it was true, the world would be a very unpleasant place to be. The reason is that privacy is the borderland of the individual. When it is invaded, we lose focus on who we are, even if we do not feel this directly.

  7. Author

    I have encountered people–if that’s what they were–who could read minds and apparently not tune it out. They were very much like schizophrenics in their affect, and obviously quite unhappy with what must have been an unstoppable flow of voices gushing through their minds.

    1. Ah, thanks.

      I’ve been following your work obsessively for over 10 years and was curious about that.

      These telepathic human-looking beings seem to have a foot in both of our worlds so any information on them is deeply fascinating.

      The next step in our evolution.

  8. If this mind control or brainwashing is real, with whats being laid out with 5G…. It’s truly terrifying.
    More dangerous than nukes. Which makes me ask. Have the visitors taken out any of the 5G antennas ?

    This would be interesting to know.

    1. Author

      I haven’t been aware of anything. The concerns about nuclear weapons and the environment are definite. Proved. They do interfere with nuclear facilities and their message that the environment is in danger has been transmitted to many, many CE3 witnesses.

      I think that 5G may be too granular a subject for them, in the sense that I think that they can look into individuals very deeply, but not so much into the intricacies of our societies.

      1. I have a feeling that a lot of crazy stuff will play out over the next ten years. It seems ce3 contact is different from other forms of contact. Thank you for your reply Mr Strieber.

  9. It looks almost -and to some completely- hopeless when looking at the power the deep state “elite” seem to sway over us.

    Yet in light of this world being a virtual reality, which for those of us who believe this is the true reality hides Who and How we really are -and this goes for everyone, no matter how ugly the appearance and seeming behavior- these are excellent reminders of how things really are:

    “ET 101”

    “The Ego’s Hell Realm & The Hero’s Journey: Understanding the Central Myth of Western Culture”

    What is not directly mentioned there, but what can easily be concluded, is that by taking on the human experience as our true Self we have all given our divine life for and to the souls that seem to be but human, yet beyond the appearances are indeed divine.

    Compared to our original Self-knowledge and infinitely great happiness, experiencing being but human is like letting yourself be spiritually tortured to death by the very humans you gave your life for and to. But we willed that also other beings would have and enjoy our divine Self-knowledge and all that brings with it in creativity and an infinitely great potential for ever increasing enjoyment. So we imagined being humans, doing human things.

    In the mean time Back Stage we arrange the atoms that form this virtual reality full of symbols serving as signposts pointing us in the direction where we begin to change the nightmare into a happy dream of awakening, for starters, before fully waking up to our divine reality.

    The birth in us of this memory and increasing consciousness of our true Identity will cause positive changes the so called deep state “elite” know nothing of.
    As has been said: “The devil does not know for Whom he works.”

    Keep the good faith, for it is fully justified.

  10. This is a brave and courageous interview. Unknown Country is a place to go to find kindred spirits and I so appreciate that. I am a boomer and went through the disillusionment and loss of leaders of truth and integrity that wounded my heart and the heart of many others. The myriad of lies that have been shoved down our throats since that time and most likely before the boomer era by those with ”dark intentions It is so blatant now I think the message is ”to wake up”and not fall back asleep, acknowledge the anger but not to let the anger feed upon our core as a human being, find our purpose and grow and strengthen our souls as you have encouraged us to do so and the visitors see as imperative that we do, if we are to save this beautiful planet that we live on. ”From using the vision of the eagle while walking in balance with the sight of a mouse.”

  11. I love your podcast Whitley and I love all of your guests! Ellen was great. I’m not entirely sure why people have such a strong reaction to hearing dark scenarios. I love hearing every bit as it helps me understand the minds of those that reject the supposed clockwork universe that calmly explains away every bit of truth, magic and thought into a homogenized lullaby for the walking dead most of us call family and friends. Who cares if she is right or wrong? Having an open mind doesn’t mean you believe everything you hear, it just means you hear it without judgement, you hear it as that humans particular truth, and you get a chance to feel like what it is to walk a day in another persons shoes. If anything she says resonates with any person With an ear to listen, there could be a clue to explore for them that they previously did not have, and that is invaluable. 99% of UFO experiences could be complete hogwash, but if just one is true what then? 99% of what Ellen said could be jibber jabber but what if she is correct about ANY one thing? If her end message says to pay attention to your health and seek alternatives for yourself, that’s not a dark message at all. Personally, I stand guard at the door of my own mind and as long as the human that is speaking seems intelligent, earnest and passionate, I’ll happily listen to the “lunatics” all day. Neither my reality nor my spiritual philosophy is threatened by alternative view points. My gods still exist even if your gods say they don’t lol. What I love Whitley, is that you seek the common threads that resonate with you, no matter who the person is or what the subject matter entails, whether light or dark. Keep it coming! this world is not what it seems and I will seek forever right along with you. You are brave and there are many of us that totally resonate with who you are, deeply appreciate your work, clearly see your often misunderstood/maligned philosophy for the jewel that it is and why you do what you do. There are too few of us that truly look, afraid at what it may reveal and there are fewer yet that would admit what they saw upon looking. Much love.

  12. Author

    Thank you! As you say, “this world is not what it seems,” and that pretty much says it all. That is the core theme of my work, my life, Communion and A New World. CH 12 of that book basically proves that we cannot ever be certain of anything. As Anne says, “The human species is too young to have beliefs. What we need are good questions.” Probably the single most positive and hopeful thing I have ever heard said.

    Your support is very welcome, and I appreciate you taking the time to express it with such candor.

  13. That is certainly an interesting idea- the 5g network possibly related to the occurrence of this recent corona virus mayhem in China. Did I miss something or is Elana saying that what occurred may be a deliberate act(?) Using directed microwaves or such like to cause a viral infection or to spread it(?)

    No idea how that would work, given infected people that returned from China sick, had the causative corona virus isolated from them and the genome sequenced. So how do you get viral DNA into people with microwaves?

    Does bring to mind that strange Austrian academic I sort of knew from about twenty years ago. Outside of university physics work, He also gave lectures at private colleges that trained homeopaths/ naturopaths. Was fascinated at the concept of materials like water retaining a nanoscale memory of materials that were previously dissolved.

    Could ‘memory’ of a, sort-of living thing like a virus or alternately a complex self replicating micro machine be assembled in the ‘water’ of another living thing? At a distance without a diluted solution being transferred that used to contain it(?)

    Does bring to mind that French fellow Teilhard de Chardin’s ideas about the complexity and generation of germs. Though Pasteur and Darwin’s ideas are the commonly accepted ones.

  14. I wasn’t on board with this one. I’m very science oriented and some things she said just didn’t make a lot of sense. Mixing the far out fanciful things with concepts we know are true can be extremely counter productive. Lots of jumping to conclusions and leaps of faith with this one, I just can’t go that far.

    1. I agree with you to an extent. The problem is that if we’re not being told, then we can’t know. A good example is 5G. When you look at the huge amount of exposure that is involved, there has been little study of its health effects. It wouldn’t appear to have any. Another is Morgellons. It has been pretty much dismissed as psychosomatic. But if so, then what are those lesions? I clicked on the Morgellons link in the show writeup, and what did I see? No less than the Mayo Clinic saying more study is needed! Will that happen? I doubt it.

    2. “Mixing the far out fanciful things with concepts we know are true can be extremely counter productive.”
      It’s also how we discover new realities and move forward. I’m reading her book and any leaps she might make are starting with heavily footnoted and cited sources and experts.
      I think a lot of this is just too terrifying for many people to want to contemplate, and even open-minded people can have their cut-off point. I find this interview and her book riveting, chilling, and extremely important, regardless of whether all her claims or hypotheses check out. There’s clearly something here.

  15. Many here in Britain are surprised that UK Gvmt appear to be going ahead with Huawei’s involvement with our 5G network.

    The US administration has done everything it can to dissuade UK Gvmt from allowing it and after listening to this show, I confess to being worried.

    Hack a nation’s 5G network and potentially you can kill the population or at least target swathes of the population with a view to strategic change.

    Very depressing. Things aren’t getting better on Earth, they’re getting worse. I just pray for a more conscious future.


  16. Whitley, You mentioned some kind of device or “thing” you wear on your head when you sleep. Curious if you could elaborate on this. What it is? What does it do? Where do you get it? Thanks in advance.

  17. Well, this may be a bit off topic given the comments above, so many of which demonstrate to me again what an incredible readership this site attracts, but, Whitley, I have always been touched by your reference to animals. And by this I mean not just your dog Candy or your cats or even that God manifests to you on occasion as a dog, but what I hear and sense is a deep compassion for animal life. As I sit here with my two dogs, I feel such love for them, and sense in them such purity of feeling and innocence. And it moves me every time. But I wonder — who are they? what role do they really have in our lives, on earth, in the afterlife? Do they also advance to the next realm? Can they also make choices that somehow strengthen their conscious energy? Will we ever find a way to really understand them or how they view themselves?

    Again, off topic a bit but welcome your response, Whitley, or anyone else’s here. Thanks.

    1. Author

      Dogs play a huge role in my experience of other levels, for sure. Also cats. Candy has returned to me many times, and I encountered both of our cats soon after they died. Coe, the little Siamese, was confused but I was able to show him the way to the outside world. Later, during Anne’s NDE, he showed up and was scornful that she didn’t know the way! Typical Siamese…

      As to the next realm, everything advances. That’s what life and existence are about.

      1. Author

        I want to add that I had a fascinating dream last night after I asked during meditation for more information about the role of dogs. Anne knew a great deal about dogs and often told the story of when the great spirit decided to create a chasm between man and the animals, at the last moment dog jumped across to be with man. So I asked her why. In the dream, a spirit entity was coming close to me, somebody I welcomed and was glad to see. But then an enormous dog began barking and barking and drove the being off. I thought the being was Anne and very much did not want to see this happen. The dog was one of the archetypes that lives within us all. The Greeks called it Cerberus, the guardian of the barrier between the living and the dead. Their Cerberus had three heads but the one in my dream had only one. Still, it was performing the same function.

        The dream made me realize that the barrier is within us, and is fear, and we must find ourselves to our absolute depths and become truly comfortable with ourselves to keep the dog from guarding the barrier. And how do we go about this? Anne summed it up with the comment “enlightenment is what happens when there is nothing left of us but love.” In that peace, which is called shanti, the peace beyond understanding, there are no barriers.

  18. Author

    It is an EMF protection hood. I got it on Amazon and tested its effectiveness with an EMF meter.

    This is a link to the hood:

    I have a number of EMF meters. This is the one I use and travel with:

    I wouldn’t worry too much about this. As you know, Linda and I both have evidence that we have been targeted using EMF weapons by somebody or other, which is why I use this stuff and have recommended the same items to her.

    It is especially important, if you use the EMF meter, to understand clearly how it works or you are going to be misled and possibly frightened by readings that actually aren’t that unusual or dangerous.

    However, when 5G appears in your area, I would see if the readings rise dramatically from where they are now. If so, then that would probably justify getting some protection.

  19. Most likely a fluke or coincidence BUT I developed a very rapid heart beat while listening to this. So much so that I had to shut it off after the first hour. I am usually not prone to heart rate issues like this. And it slowed after shutting the show off.

    We are getting real tin foil hat aren’t we? I don’t have an explanation for it. Maybe I’m developing a heart problem and it just happened to start while listening to a show about this kind of stuff.

  20. This was a fascinating show. I’m not sure that I buy the weaving of all of the conspiracy theories, but I’m willing to entertain them, and one thing I’ll say about Elana is that she is very clear that her theories are just that: her theories. She doesn’t claim them to be fact.

    Chemtrails…there’s no denying that something’s up. Exactly what I do not know. I would love to hear more about *how* this is being accomplished. They seem to do this on particular days–not every single day–and I’m wondering who is flying those planes? Where do they take off and land? Surely, surely, someone knows. Perhaps this is in her book; has anyone read it and do you know if she covers this particular aspect? If so, might be worth a read. I don’t need to read it to be convinced about the existence of them. They are just so *obvious*, and we didn’t see things like this when I was younger.

    Would like to hear more focus on soul work, however. The “horror scenarios” are fascinating, but in the end, where does it get us to hear about all of this? I want to hear more about the work that people are doing to grow their souls and protect themselves.

  21. Author

    Strengthening the soul is the central focus of Dreamland. We explore widely, but always return to that core quest.

    1. Excellent advice to all of us.
      It is good also to touch on what appears to be going on in quarters where the divine light has not shone away the darkness yet. But the divine light is invincible, and even embraces the darkness in the mean time until it has brought its peace and joy also there. That divine light is the knowledge of God, consisting of a love so great that also that is above human understanding. Yet it is willing to experience having but our very limited understanding while that lasts.

  22. Coming from a level that is more aligned with our true Identity, clothed in a symbolic collective name:

    “The Arcturians, Odd Symptoms”

    Also interesting that there is a source of light behind the human appearance with the symbol of an atom before it in the thumbnail. Symbolizing that on a level beyond human understanding we arrange the atoms making up this virtual reality.
    And “atom” means “indivisible” or “individual”; that which cannot be divided as it is the oneness of the One Who is our true Identity, as well as everyone’s.

  23. one of the most important guests you have had on recently. what she is studying is more important than any other subject. its also the most ignored because to know about this subject you need to do real research. she’s done it and the implications are staggering. whats coming is body snatching. the people enacting this agenda want to separate the souls from the bodies. they then plan to program the bodies to do their bidding. turn the human race into bio androids on a new more restrictive level. in asheanna dean’s book voyagers she warns that this was done on other planets and resulted in a black hole where the planet once was. the idiots doing this do not fully understand all the implications of what they are doing. the souls, bodies and planet are all so intimately connected. disconnecting the souls from the bodies results in catastrophe. so few know this is whats coming. so few.

  24. I was really glad to see that you did the show. 15 to 20 years ago I started seeing Chemtrails in my area especially over a local Air Force Base. It looks like a checkerboard! I read about Morgellons and Carnicoms Research as well. After seeing a lot of photos of morgellons victims and the fibers coming out of them the nanotechnology really seemed to fit right in. I know a lot of people for a long time ignoredvChemtrails even with seeing them in their own valleys and cities. I always hoped I was wrong about them but evidence always pointed me to the direction that there was something very nefarious going on up in the skies. It’s kind of funny. I was thinking the other day that we’re all so exposed to so many toxins and carcinogenic materials in the foods we eat, etc. With nanotechnology and all of the other Technologies combined it seems to be we’re being bombarded for many levels.
    I’m really really glad you did the show. I always hoped I was wrong about some of this. I think I was just a little ahead of the curve, sadly. It is an interesting idea to have a hair sample tested for heavy metals. I already looked at the herbalists website and he has some very interesting things in there. Find me try doing some of his baths. Thanks, again Whitley for all of your openness to exploring various ideas. I also always thought CERN was a little suspicious on a few different levels. And bringing the Nazis to America, yes that was a very very bad idea.

  25. In the top 5 Dreamlands and so much more to discuss with Ellen… you simply must have her back.

    Its amazing to me , as an Ultrasound scientist and Sonographer how much of this technology I have been drawn to in the background of my life. She and others speak of frequencies, (Dr. Raritan) resonance, vibrations, pulsed waves and phased arrays etc… the very thing I see and use every day.

  26. I remember years ago a French Village that got really sick after some chemtrail spraying with the klebsiella bacteria. People saw the spray, everyone got sick really fast and the hospital couldn’t explain it. I was interviewed about chemtrails on a podcast live and when I broached that incident there was a huge static burst and the line went dead. Host called me back, saying I must have pissed someone off!

  27. Author

    We get that sort of static all the time on Dreamland, so much so that we use it as an indicator. The show you will hear next week with Linda is full of it, and not only that, the bursts seem to come at very specific and confirming points in the discussion.

    Any chance you can remember more about that French event or provide a link to a story?

  28. This podcast and all that it represents is precisely why I passionately endorse, support, and subscribe to Dreamland and all that you do, Whitley, in your bold and vital exploration of what is going on inside this vast topic, in all its variety. I can’t thank you enough for speaking about the topics and with the people you do on this site. Like many people here, I feel we are in highly volatile, challenging, yet potentially enlightening times, in a way that our planet has never known before. That is also why I feel your new book (which I read over Thanksgiving and love as much as your others) is doing so well on Amazon. The time is now. We can’t stop. THANK YOU.

  29. Royal Rife
    Royal Raymond Rife, June 1931 – Popular Science Magazine
    Royal Raymond Rife (May 16, 1888 – August 5, 1971) was an American inventor and early exponent of high-magnification time-lapse cine-micrography.[1][2]

    He is best known for a claimed ‘beam ray’ invention during the 1930s, which he thought could treat some diseases through vibration. Years after his death, it was manufactured and sold in several countries as a cure for cancer, AIDS, and other conditions. Many patients died, and multiple promoters were convicted of health fraud and sent to prison.


    Life and work
    Little reliable published information exists describing Rife’s life and work. In the 1930s, he made several optical compound microscopes and using a movie camera, took time-lapse microscopy movies of microbes.[2][3][4] He also built microscopes that included polarizers.[5]

    Rife also reported that a ‘beam ray’ device of his invention could destroy the pathogens.[2][6] Rife claimed to have documented a “Mortal Oscillatory Rate” for various pathogenic organisms, and to be able to destroy the organisms by vibrating them at this particular rate. According to the San Diego Evening Tribune in 1938, Rife stopped short of claiming that he could cure cancer, but did argue that he could “devitalize disease organisms” in living tissue, “with certain exceptions”.[6] In a 1931 profile, Rife warned against “medical fakers” who claim to cure disease using “electrical ‘vibrations'”, stating that his work did not uphold such claims.[2]

    Rife machine from 1922
    Rife’s claims about his beam ray could not be independently replicated, and were discredited by independent researchers during the 1950s.[7][8] An obituary in the Daily Californian described his death at the age of 83 on August 5, 1971, stating that he died penniless and embittered by the failure of his devices to garner scientific acceptance.[9] Rife blamed the scientific rejection of his claims on a conspiracy involving the American Medical Association (AMA), the Department of Public Health, and other elements of “organized medicine”, which had “brainwashed and intimidated” his colleagues.[9]

    Health fraud after his death
    Interest in Rife’s claims was revived in some alternative medical circles by the 1987 book by Barry Lynes, The Cancer Cure That Worked, which claimed that Rife had succeeded in curing cancer, but that his work was suppressed by a powerful conspiracy headed by the American Medical Association.[7] After this book’s publication, a variety of devices bearing Rife’s name were marketed as cures for diverse diseases such as cancer and AIDS. An analysis by Electronics Australia found that a typical ‘Rife device’ consisted of a nine-volt battery, wiring, a switch, a timer and two short lengths of copper tubing, which delivered an “almost undetectable” current unlikely to penetrate the skin.[10]

    Such ‘Rife devices’ have figured prominently in several cases of health fraud in the U.S., typically centered around the uselessness of the devices and the grandiose claims with which they are marketed. In a 1996 case, the marketers of a ‘Rife device’ claiming to cure numerous diseases including cancer and AIDS were convicted of felony health fraud.[11] The sentencing judge described them as “target[ing] the most vulnerable people, including those suffering from terminal disease” and providing false hope.[12] In some cases cancer patients who ceased chemotherapy and instead used these devices have died.[13][14] Rife devices are currently classified as a subset of radionics devices, which are generally viewed as pseudomedicine by mainstream experts.[7] In Australia, the use of Rife machines has been blamed for the deaths of cancer patients who might have been cured with conventional therapy.[10] In 2002 John Bryon Krueger, who operated the Royal Rife Research Society, was sentenced to 12 years in prison for his role in a murder and also received a concurrent 30-month sentence for illegally selling Rife devices. In 2009 a U.S. court convicted James Folsom of 26 felony counts for sale of the Rife devices sold as ‘NatureTronics’, ‘AstroPulse’, ‘BioSolutions’, ‘Energy Wellness’, and ‘Global Wellness’.[15]

    In 1994, the American Cancer Society reported that Rife machines were being sold in a “pyramid-like, multilevel marketing scheme”. A key component in the marketing of Rife devices has been the claim, initially put forward by Rife himself, that the devices were being suppressed by an establishment conspiracy against cancer “cures”.[7] The ACS describes Lynes’ claims as implausible, noting that the book was written “in a style typical of conspiratorial theorists” and defied any independent verification.[7] Although ‘Rife devices’ are not registered by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration and have been linked to deaths among cancer sufferers, the Seattle Times reported that over 300 people attended the 2006 Rife International Health Conference in Seattle, where dozens of unregistered devices were sold.[14]

    1. So James, you are saying…? If you have cancer, don’t buy alternative therapy devices advertised on late night infomercials…?

  30. A very interesting interview, which sums up lots of data and ties them up in a concise story. There may be some untruths, but I consider it one of the best interviews I have heard in many years I have been listening… impressive.

    I just stopped reading the book “THE SECRET OF SECRETS: THE SECRET OF THE GOLDEN FLOWER” after finding this passage iwhich reminded me of something that you brought up in this or a recent Podcast. It is about the slit that opens in your eye and you see words …
    That help you write?
    So, even when I cannot find the exact Podcast where you said it, I need to bring up this passage to your attention in the hope that you see the resemblance and maybe relate to it. Maybe you can compare to your experience, hopefully you have read the book, which I find so different to others, a new step up in my readings. (NOTE you can move this comment if you feel it does not belong here… it may be on the comments related to one of your recently published books. )

    The quote is this.

    In the past few weeks, just when I am feeling overwhelmed with the mystery and miracle of life and this world, I suddenly feel everything outside me descending closer and closer until it goes inside my eyes. I then find myself looking at what seems like a one-dimensional screen sitting just at my eyes. It seems as though there is nothing but me and I am so alone. But then people are on the scene interacting with me and I become confused. And what about you? You also seem just part of the painting.”

    Striking resemblance to your slit in a poetic way! Interesting .

  31. Author

    I have studied The Secret of the Golden Flower carefully. It is a very important book for anybody involved in meditation.

    Interesting about Osho. The slit with the words passing through in my eye is entirely utilitarian as far as I can determine, but thank you for pointing out what you have. It had not occurred to me that there might be potential to expand it into showing visual imagery. I would not want to lose the words, though. They are a most useful research tool.

  32. Consciousness trumps ritual. Great show Whitley and Elana.
    Thank you!

  33. This was an interesting show. I often follow up with these interviews by buying the authors’ Kindle books.

    Regarding the discussion of beam technology, long ago, when I lived at an ashram, I had many reality-defying experiences. In one event, I was in my small, private room sitting in early morning meditation when suddenly a male voice right next to my right ear said “Dr. Vogel.” Startled, I immediately opened my eyes to see who was there and my room was empty. I do not feel this was done technologically but rather somehow organically from the advanced yogi who was present, as he was encouraging me to go to graduate school. I observed many other incidents related to this yogi that indicated skills beyond what is considered humanly possible. Without higher ethics, any of these powers, whether through technology or advanced human ability, can be abused.

  34. Whitley, I have been a subscriber for years and realized that I need to provide a voice against the clamor of trolls (and not just in this forum). Your own experiences give you the wisdom to discuss topics with your guests and interject relevant insights. Other listeners may prefer to hear your guest more than you, but these interviews are not three minute sound bites – they are usually thirty minutes or longer and provide enough time for your guest’s voice. Although, is there ever enough time? You have been brave from day one and continue to keep an open mind, and seek information and truth. Every “answer” generates more questions. The interview with Elana was a wild ride. Thank you!

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