Whitley's Space

Never a Straight Answer lives up to it's name. Tampering with Curiosity imagery.

This is so disappointing. I wish that it wasn't so convincing. Whatever they are hiding on Mars we will never know. Click here to see why.

So, what ARE they hiding? evidence of an escape destination for the rich and powerful when things get bed here on earth? Evidence of prior...or existing ETs, or perhaps other humans? Evidence of nuclear disaster? Evidence of mining or other resource-grabbing intentions? Who knows? They lie through their teeth at every turn, but...and this is so important...but the word is starting to get out into the public, ad so many more people are really listening, people I never expected to be open to this sort of thing. Meanwhile, if you know any good remote viewers, Whitley, get them together where they can't be tampered with, tell them to go to certain points on Mars (all the areas) and report /draw what they see...separately. If they all come up with the same or similar things, well, you may have the information you want Surely there are remote viewers out there willing to do this just for the challenge of it!

Whoops. I meant 'when things get BAD here' and send them ALL to the SAME areas.

The Devil's Advocate on my shoulder is piping up: NASA has a long history of doctoring publicly-released photos where the image data was either incomplete or obscured in the original, with the purpose of making the images more presentable to the public. This was done with many photographs from the Apollo program, and I would seriously doubt that any of the Mars images are immune to this marketing treatment, especially since good PR is now essential to NASA's very survival. Remember, the vast majority of Mars images released to the public are fundamentally altered to begin with, since the majority of them are transmitted to Earth in black-and-white (256-bit greyscale, for bandwidth purposes), then re-coloured for public consumption.
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So the question broadens into whether NASA's source imagery was altered to accommodate incomplete data, or are they indeed hiding something?

Wow, I honestly didn't think it was so blatantly AND poorly done. Anybody know how NASA responds to these obvious copy/paste jobs? Do they acknowledge them as part of a "editing for the public" process or do they deny manipulating the photos?

PS: Can anybody spot any copy/paste here? I'm trying to find the same regions that the youtube poster had in his video but I can't.
http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/releases/msl-gale-crater.php

Not to sound dismissive, but these are composite images --- meaning several images are stitched together to form a larger image. I would expect to see some overlap and duplications in images that are produced this way. Changes is shading would be expected because the constituent images are not all captured on the same orbital pass, and the sun changes position in the Martian sky. In other words, this may not be evidence of any kind of legerdemain. Instead, it may just be careless image processing.

Those who are curious might want to take a look at the excellent work done by James Canvin at: http://www.nivnac.co.uk/mer/index.php . He has created magnificent vistas of the surface of Mars by painstakingly parsing through thousands of raw NASA images, and by applying his own image processing expertise to produce top-knotch results. Most of these images were delivered by the Spirit and Opportunity rovers. In the image captions, James discusses some of his techniques in broad technical terms. Also click on the "Notes and Copyright" tab at the top left-hand corner of the home page, and read what he has written there.

It is clear from James' captions that imaging the surface of Mars is as much an art as it is a science. While it is certainly possible that NASA is covering something up, I don't think that these anomalies are necessarily evidence thereof.

Lina Moulton Howe has covered this in some depth.

http://www.earthfiles.com/news.php?ID=2015&category=Science

Anyone who claims Apollo images are altered should watch the thousands of images at the apollo archive. I've done that (for another reason). Just saying.

@Professor Honeydew - I am familiar with image stitching and have often done it in Photoshop. I have built 360 degrees images that give people an all around view of a place (in my case an office hallway for a company) in Photoshop, then animated it in Flash. There is absolutely NO reason at all to copy and paste images the way they are done in the JPL app.... Unless you're trying to cover up something.

I guess they could be covering up 'holes' in the image data. What I mean by that is that the image data came back with some parts missing and they opted for covering those missing areas by cutting and pasting from surrounding parts.

In such cases the proper procedure would be to show original image data, then differentiate (by color probably) the regions that were composited (not image stitched) due to lack of data. That's how it's done for anything where the data has missing parts. You NEVER just throw in YOUR additions without CLEARLY demarcating the boundaries.

The way this was done is highly comical and unprofessional...

Either JPL doesn't care at all about accuracy - in which case why even bother with the app... or somebody (very unskilled at editing) was doing this job (the editing changes) in a hurry.

I looked at the site you gave and saw this disclaimer: "I am not affiliated in any way with NASA, JPL, or Cornell University. All the work on this site has been produced on an purely amateur basis in my spare time." Still, this guy produced WAY BETTER image stitching than what's found on the JPL app... So we're left to believe that either:

1. NASA doesn't care if their images are accurate or not (apparently billions of dollars gets you Photoshopped Mars maps with no warning of the tampering).

2. Doesn't know how to hire a Photoshop expert... Honestly even a diligent amateur would be 100 times better.

3. Somebody (in the chain of command) was covering up something and it had to be done in a hurry.

I hesitate to postulate that NASA, as an organization, is trying to cover something up because simple reasoning would tell you they would AT LEAST find a decent professional to do the job. IF this was a cover-up job it was probably done by one or a few people that had a limited window to make the change - hence the cheap Photoshopping.

El Gringo: I agree that it is bad practice to do what was done to those images, but I’m still inclined to think that it was haste or carelessness, rather than trickery, that led to the anomalies that are pointed out in the original YouTube link. Those composite images are intended for public consumption rather than academic use, and JPL was probably just trying to convey an impression of what the surface of Mars looks like. A planetary geologist or cartographer, on the other hand, would most likely mine the raw images rather than rely on potentially unreliable composites to do his or her work.

James Canvin spent a lot of time and committed a lot of effort to create the images featured on his website, which is why he claims copyright. But the fact that he had to stitch those images together in the first place demonstrates that NASA never bothered to composite any of those pictures. So while the composite images are fascinating, visually impressive and provide a great “in person” perspective of Mars, they are, by James’ admission, somewhat doctored, and therefore probably have limited scientific value. Likewise with the JPL photos shown in the YouTube link.

I’d be willing to bet that if someone had the time and inclination to go through NASA’s archive of raw images of the surface of Mars (of which there are tens of thousands), and correlate the latitudes and longitudes (taking into account things like angular size and local lighting conditions at the time the image was made) of every frame, he’d find that there is very little missing image data and that the surface of Mars has been comprehensively mapped.

That said, I wouldn’t put it past NASA/JPL to censor or suppress information. Though NASA was chartered as a civilian agency, it is only ostensibly so. It has always had a complex and murky relationship with our military and intelligence agencies – even dating back to its previous incarnation as NACA – and has always been willing and eager to carry water for the military and the national security apparatus. It is willing to commit its resources at the behest of our intelligence agencies.

But keep in mind – NASA isn’t the only one that has orbiters around Mars. The ESA has one, too…and with similar capabilities. India has one in the works. China won’t be far behind. It would be difficult for NASA to single-handedly suppress evidence of a secret space program – much less even more explosive evidence like artifacts of civilization – on Mars. I personally doubt that such evidence exists. But time will tell.

@Professor Honeydew - It's very hard to imagine carelessness to this degree, but it's not impossible. It would involve absolute disregard for the fact that billions of dollars were spend to acquire data like this. Since NASA is Gov't agency that is a definite possibility. An agency that pays attention to the incredibly minute details required to operate such a complex mission cannot stitch images together better than a high school student with Photoshop?

--> Please point me to the raw archive images link that show the exact images that were used for this JPL app... I'd be willing to give it a go at stitching them in my spare time. Then I would post the results. I would need the same images they used, not different images taken of the same area. This way I would be able to judge the need to copy paste data. IF the same exact images used for the map are NOT available in their original versions, then this would raise a red flag.

My argument is this:

Even simple automated image stitching software or camera included apps can do a great job. I've never done a panorama shot and had the camera stitch the images in such a way where 2 mountain tops were present instead of 1. If you understand the basic principle for image stitching then you understand why copy/paste of dislocated SPECIFIC regions is implausible (unless your objective is to cover up).

I never suggested NASA (as a whole) did this as a coverup. IF this was a coverup it seems much more plausible it was done by just a few people within that had limited skills and time to pull this off. This would seem much more in tune with the hasty results.

Keep in mind that I'm not saying they're covering up Martian signs of life... just saying that things don't add up. It may just be it's a really bad patching job where they had NO data (holes) in the images. I cannot see how this would happen, especially since image data is usually horizontal and any missing info would come out as missing lines and pixels, NOT an odd shaped region but...

El Gringo: The raw images from the Opportunity rover (that landed in 2004 and is still functioning) are here: http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/all/opportunity.html . This is the type of raw image database that I would expect you would need to use. NASA is claiming there are over 107k images from the Opportunity rover available for public use. I suspect this is the resource James Canvin uses for his work as well. The raw images from the new Curiosity rover are here: http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/msl/multimedia/raw/. There are already over 10k images available from that rover.

I haven't been able to find raw images from any of NASA's mars orbiters (including Mars Odyssey, Mars Global Surveyor, or the Mars Recconnaissance Orbiter). Is this suspicious? Perhaps. It might be possible to simply email NASA/JPL and ask where to find the raw images. If there is no public repository for these images and/or there is no public access, it would go some way toward persuading me that there's some kind of subterfuge going on.

I agree that this is somewhat irregular, and the YouTube video's author makes a convincing case that, at the very least, the image shown is not an accurate representation of what's actually on the surface of that particular area of Mars. But we're still missing a concrete motive, which only gives way to speculation.

I have wondered for some time if the abandonment of human (rather than robotic) exploration of space is as much an attempt to contain UFO evidence as it is a budget decision. It is tragic if there is E.T. evidence that (mostly because of ego) is being withheld from the world's people.

@Professor Honeydew - Well, I emailed and asked them for the exact photos that were used in the app map.

We will see...

I will post here any news.

Follow-up

Greetings:

We look forward to processing your request but we need more information to proceed. Please fill out a FOIA request using our on-line request form located here:

Link

Or, you may send an e-mail (jpl-foia@nasa.gov), fax (818-393-3160) or post mail (National Aeronautics and Space Administration, Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Suite LP040, NASA Management Office, 4800 Oak Grove Drive, MS 180-200K, Pasadena, CA 91109-8001) which includes all the required information listed on the on-line form. We look forward to serving you. Thank you very much.

Sincerely,

Dennis B. Mahon
Freedom of Information Act
Public Liaison Officer,

Records Manager,

Privacy Act Manager and

Audit Liaison Representative
National Aeronautics and Space Administration
Jet Propulsion Laboratory
Suite LP040
NASA Management Office
4800 Oak Grove Drive, MS 180-200K
Pasadena, CA 91109-8001
https://nmo.nasa.gov/index.cfm?foia_site=1

Phone: (818) 393-6779
Fax: (818) 393-3160

Wow. I wonder if that is standard procedure. Why aren't those raw images on a publicly-accessible database somewhere? It certainly does raise questions. It has also come to my attention that the ESA partnered with NASA on the ESA's Mars Express orbiter. So that would probably be a dead-end, too.

But again, if NASA is indeed hiding something, then they won't be able to keep it a secret for much longer. They can't prevent other nations from placing orbiters around Mars; and I doubt that nations like Russia or China, to name just two, would be willing to be complicit in a NASA cover-up.

I was able to find some raw images from the thermal imaging camera of the Mars Recconnaissance Orbiter. But to a layperson like me, those images are hard to interpret.

I admit that I'm stumped. This could be nothing more than bureaucratic poppycock...or it could be something more deliberatively obstructive. Wonder what would happen if you filed a FOIA to gain access to those images.

This sounds like the guy that misread what he alleged to be HAARP fired up when they were actually overlapping radar images. I hope there is more vetting of these "proof stories". It's sounds sensational, but that's all.

@Professor Honeydew - We will see - It is odd that these images are not available, yet scores of other images are easily found for download - no FOIA needed. After all it's our $$ that paid for this.

@animalspirits - Could you please elaborate on "overlapping radar images"? Also, my acronyms knowledge is a bit rusty as there are zillions of them, and a lot of doubling going on... so refresh me please on HAARP.... Thanks, LFTYR... (that's: Looking Forward To Your Reply :)

I use Photoshop EVERY day as part of my job. I sped untold hours in Photoshop. Daily.

I watched the video. It is absolutely obvious (to me, at least): This is a very hasty use of the clone stamp and a feathered erase tool with some on-the-fly layer effects.

If I was given a file and was told, "Get rid of this area however you can. Y