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Mr. Mansions
Senior Member
Username: ascension1

Post Number: 793
Registered: 11-2012
Posted on Thursday, March 07, 2013 - 10:54 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

Creating this Thread for Gay Issues:

Links:

http://twospirits.org/

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/gay-voices/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two-Spirit

Beyond any real study of Gays having abduction experiences within blogs - I found no concerted effort to study gays in ufology. I have met several gay people over the past decades that were shocked that there were gays involved with this experiences.
The aim of argument, or of discussion, should not be victory, but progress.
-Joseph Joubert-
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bean
Senior Member
Username: tina

Post Number: 2351
Registered: 12-2001
Posted on Thursday, March 07, 2013 - 6:41 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

Well, we ALL have the same equiptment....I would think it isn't an "issue." But, I've not thought about it so I don't know.

In what way are you thinking gays should be studied in regards to abduction, that is different than how abduction has been handled for humans thus far?
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Mr. Mansions
Senior Member
Username: ascension1

Post Number: 799
Registered: 11-2012
Posted on Thursday, March 07, 2013 - 7:30 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

I'm not really sure Bean.

Being of Two Spirit myself, and have met quite a few other gay males and females with abduction experiences, just curious.

A few months ago Dr Lear mentioned his experience during surgery where a Being interceded during the operation and replaced a nerve or vain (not sure) with some extremely high-tech nerve or vain. His surgeon, when Roger asked him about it (Roger was out of body during the surgery), the Doctor got terribly nervous and walked out of the room.

Roger's recollection and intuitive insight he got via telepathy, "They weren't done with him."

Knowing that, and knowing how many of us have some sort of "mission" to complete, I am very curious about the roll gays play in all this.


(Message edited by Ascension1 on March 07, 2013)
The aim of argument, or of discussion, should not be victory, but progress.
-Joseph Joubert-
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Mr. Mansions
Senior Member
Username: ascension1

Post Number: 801
Registered: 11-2012
Posted on Thursday, March 07, 2013 - 8:37 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

I just noticed Susi had posted an article from Huff-Post related to Two Spirits.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/charles-orgbon/twospirit-people-gays-acc_b_1677851 .html

The aim of argument, or of discussion, should not be victory, but progress.
-Joseph Joubert-
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bean
Senior Member
Username: tina

Post Number: 2356
Registered: 12-2001
Posted on Thursday, March 07, 2013 - 8:42 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

I'm thinking that "gays" have the same ROLE to play as everyone...open up...become that which you were ment to be. The sexual inclinations of any member of our human destiny is a very small part of ones nature...imo.....just a proclivity of that paticular aspect...NOT something we base the overiding thought upon. An aspect....To me it is like prefering vanilla to chocolate. Do YOU care if I like vanilla as opposed to chocolate?..... I don't think the others do either.

I don't think "ones mission," is dependent upon ones sexual orientation. I don't really care what you do in regard(e.. lol).... to that.
It's not my business.
Get on with the mission!
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Mr. Mansions
Senior Member
Username: ascension1

Post Number: 805
Registered: 11-2012
Posted on Thursday, March 07, 2013 - 9:46 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

The point I'm attempting to make is that of Soul progression.

While watching an Asian Female comic last week she made a rather startling comment. "I believe Gay Men are just two lifetimes a way from graduation."

That stuck in my mind for some reason. Reminded me of a Lakota Shaman explaining to me the sacredness of Gay Males. When I asked him about Gay Females is just uttered, "They're warriors." I laughed thinking he cracked a joke and he repeated the same two words. Took me a while to learn that Warrior means Provider. (guns not included! LOL)


(Message edited by Ascension1 on March 07, 2013)
The aim of argument, or of discussion, should not be victory, but progress.
-Joseph Joubert-
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bean
Senior Member
Username: tina

Post Number: 2358
Registered: 12-2001
Posted on Thursday, March 07, 2013 - 11:24 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

Well, everyone wants to feel special. Too bad we don't really "get" that we are...



I have known just a few gay people. One was my brother, Mark. He died of aids many years ago. How many life times it would take to CLEAR out his effect from this lifetime I do not know nor can I hazard a guess. This is not to say that he did not have his INCREDABLE aspects! He most surely did...and He also left behind much to be figured out. How many more lifetimes to balance will depend upon him..imo. Nothing is impossible, but two life times would be a glory to any one of us be sure! Maybe the comic was making a joke...? The two gay women that I have known well...could be considered "warriors"...as I have been considered...and I am not gay. The 2 other men I've know who were gay seemed to have many issues which I will not go into...but on a personal level, I liked them alot.

I guess the point I am trying to make is....sexual orientation is ...just that. How one chooses to express their physical joy..is their business....I think the "others just want the stuff of creation one way or another.

As I said before this issue never came up in my thinking before. Human is human....sperm is sperm...ova is ova..to them..best guess.
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Mr. Mansions
Senior Member
Username: ascension1

Post Number: 808
Registered: 11-2012
Posted on Friday, March 08, 2013 - 12:09 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

I'm sorry to hear of your brother Bean. Yes, the gay community is dizzy with over-the-top drama queens, male and female; butch or dutch.

Yes, the comic was making a joke - yet somewhat serious. She only got a smittence of laughs.

Gee wiz... It just dawned on me. Gay people, gay Men - think totally different on issues. From guns to art... shyt, you name it.

Thanks Bean!

The aim of argument, or of discussion, should not be victory, but progress.
-Joseph Joubert-
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Buddie
Senior Member
Username: buddie

Post Number: 5880
Registered: 3-2008
Posted on Friday, March 08, 2013 - 7:27 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

85% of the Female Brain is active
much in the frontal cortex..
If we were excepted there would
not be this separation
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Mr. Mansions
Senior Member
Username: ascension1

Post Number: 818
Registered: 11-2012
Posted on Friday, March 08, 2013 - 7:31 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

Hey Ms Bud. Cool beans with that statistic. I also heard of another statistic just this week - 60% of gay people own their own business and are very successful.
The aim of argument, or of discussion, should not be victory, but progress.
-Joseph Joubert-
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Buddie
Senior Member
Username: buddie

Post Number: 5893
Registered: 3-2008
Posted on Sunday, March 10, 2013 - 4:01 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

:-) I know
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Mr. Mansions
Senior Member
Username: ascension1

Post Number: 847
Registered: 11-2012
Posted on Monday, March 11, 2013 - 12:28 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

I've google-ing Gay and Abductions and there just isn't any credible information on this topic. A few other blogs over the years hitting the topic but hardly reliable. Oh, well.........
The aim of argument, or of discussion, should not be victory, but progress.
-Joseph Joubert-
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bidaabin
Senior Member
Username: bidaabin

Post Number: 505
Registered: 10-2010
Posted on Monday, March 18, 2013 - 1:50 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

Unfortunately Mr. Mansions, I doubt you are going to find much. You are the first one that I know of that is a contactee and 2 spirit. Yes, Anishinaabeg people call our homosexuals 2 spirit despite the article I read in the other thread to the contrary. Whether this specific phrase is a product of colonialism or not, we openly accepted our people no matter what their orientation.

I will keep a look out for your question as I do find it interesting. I would like to know many things about contact that have no answer. This is another to add to my list.
"The only enemy that mankind has ever had, is their devotion to ignorance.." Dr. Robert Ghost Wolf

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Mark A. Foster
Junior Member
Username: markfoster

Post Number: 68
Registered: 2-2013
Posted on Monday, March 18, 2013 - 11:50 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

I don't think it was entirely a product of colonialism. However, from my reading, the Lakota Sioux developed a much broader concept than sexual orientation. IMO, "two spirit" was closer to genderqueer. However, even that term is inexact.

Mark
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Mama Shine
Senior Member
Username: mama_shine

Post Number: 16765
Registered: 9-2006
Posted on Tuesday, March 19, 2013 - 1:02 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

The "Berdache" are also known as llahamana, adonisgi, gatekeepers, nadle, mexago, winkte, yirka- la ul, and i-wa-wisp. They are those individuals who, because of their essential energetic androgyny, have the power to enter the Otherworld. This is NOT a sexual orientation. It is spiritual. Some Berdache are gay, but that is more a choice of action, a preference, than it is a mandate for the usage of this gift.

The indigenous thought about the Other World, the realm of the Gods, is that it is a realm of ONENESS. The Gods or spirits are both masculine and feminine in one. Though a certain spirit might manifest before a human in either a masculine or feminine character, it is---at it's core---BOTH genders.

(Has anyone brought this up...I may have missed it.)

One more thought:

Androgyny was found in Ancient Egypt. Carl Jung's Anima and Animus Theory Applies.

When it was Discovered Recently that Pharaoh Akhenaten may have been androgynous, the male figure in history might have to be called into question.

(Message edited by mama_shine on March 19, 2013)
The greatest thing you'll ever learn
Is just to love and be loved in return.
~Nature Boy

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Mark A. Foster
Junior Member
Username: markfoster

Post Number: 69
Registered: 2-2013
Posted on Tuesday, March 19, 2013 - 1:10 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

Exactly. Two-spirit was, by definition, a spiritual condition.

Mark
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Mr. Mansions
Senior Member
Username: ascension1

Post Number: 933
Registered: 11-2012
Posted on Wednesday, March 20, 2013 - 3:09 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

Bidaabin - I've only been called a contactee once before, and it was quite a few years ago. I blew it off then, actually I scoffed at that idea - reminded me of channeling.

Now I am able to accept that term. Yes, I think so. If anyone here has read my postings over the past few years, I can definitively accept the term in its purest form and intent. Thank you for speaking freely. It is greatly appreciated.

Mama - You're shining brightly! Such knowledge you have been sharing as of late has blown me away.

Androgynous. A word I would not have associated with Gay. But it fits. I associated the term more to the Souls that were born with both male and female hormones and parts of their anatomy. Some boys reaching puberty have been known to begin to have lumps under their breasts. They're given hormone shots now a days. I had such lumps when I was reaching puberty - but I got no shots, they went away.

As for my gayness - in general, no one's gaydar goes off until either I state the fact or they get to know me.

Rather fascinating to learn Gay (Two Spirit) is associated with being a "Spiritual Condition." No wonder homosexuality had been deemed "evil." Knowing someone like me freaks the Hell out of People! (LOL!)

And thank you Mark for your insights on various topics - I cherish them.

Now, to post in this thread what I came here to post... (LOL)...

here's the name of a support group that will be getting more attention as the months and years fade toward us...

GAY MEN'S SEXUAL HEALTH FOUNDATION
No website yet, but this is a support group for all men facing prostate cancer along with other types of prostate issues. Heterosexual men are not excluded from these problems.

Stay tuned...

The aim of argument, or of discussion, should not be victory, but progress.
-Joseph Joubert-
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Mark A. Foster
Junior Member
Username: markfoster

Post Number: 72
Registered: 2-2013
Posted on Wednesday, March 20, 2013 - 11:47 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

Thank you. :-)
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bidaabin
Senior Member
Username: bidaabin

Post Number: 518
Registered: 10-2010
Posted on Wednesday, March 20, 2013 - 12:03 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

I agree Mark and Mama, but I did not want to get into the deeper spiritual aspects of the meaning because of time limitations as well as the fact that some spiritual things are very hard to describe in forums such as this. I merely wanted to point out the fact that it is a term that is still used by our people. I am not affiliated with Lakota and so I have no authority to speak on their behalf.

My ex brother in law is 2-spirit and he has visions and knows medicine when walking in the woods just by looking at it. I loved hanging out with him when he was sober. If he could stay sober, I know he would be able to become a medicine person or spiritual leader of some kind.
"The only enemy that mankind has ever had, is their devotion to ignorance.." Dr. Robert Ghost Wolf

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Mark A. Foster
Member
Username: markfoster

Post Number: 81
Registered: 2-2013
Posted on Friday, March 22, 2013 - 1:34 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

In my opinion, the concept of being "two-spirited" can be approached through the White Buffalo Calf Woman, who is one of the main spiritual figures in traditional Lakota religion. The divine feminine had a central role in Lakota Sioux religion.

Mark
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Sharon2
Senior Member
Username: sharon2468

Post Number: 4731
Registered: 8-2004
Posted on Saturday, March 23, 2013 - 12:47 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

The gay men my daughters knew in school, were all funny, creative and kind. Some of them had supportive parents, others did not. I could never understand that because they were such wonderful people.

Maybe the comedian was making a point. Even though amusing... it might be true!
Our life is determined by the choices we make!
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lassensage
Advanced Member
Username: lassensage

Post Number: 255
Registered: 8-2011
Posted on Sunday, March 24, 2013 - 9:50 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

Some of the kindest folks I've been blessed to be around have been Lakota Sioux, very accepting and generous.
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Mr. Mansions
Senior Member
Username: ascension1

Post Number: 969
Registered: 11-2012
Posted on Tuesday, March 26, 2013 - 7:33 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

The new symbolic image for marriage equality:

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=4637393097647&set=a.1429265056451.206156 1.1377596197&type=1&relevant_count=1&ref=nf

The aim of argument, or of discussion, should not be victory, but progress.
-Joseph Joubert-
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Mr. Mansions
Senior Member
Username: ascension1

Post Number: 970
Registered: 11-2012
Posted on Tuesday, March 26, 2013 - 7:45 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

Some sad, sad news. The gentleman that brought together the awareness of the GAY MEN'S SEXUAL HEALTH FOUNDATION and was just granted last week a non-profit status, passed away in his sleep early Sunday morning.

This man was the nicest gay man I had ever met. Generous and genuinely concerned for gay men's health issues on all levels was truly spiritually gifted.

Dennis Bogorad was instrumental in expediting my prostate exam when all else failed. I only knew him for a few weeks but the amount of people, gay, straight and lesbian, he helped is a testament of the pure goodness each of us have to offer the world.

To say he will be surely missed is underestimated.

God's speed Dennis - and Thank YOU.


The aim of argument, or of discussion, should not be victory, but progress.
-Joseph Joubert-
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Mr. Mansions
Senior Member
Username: ascension1

Post Number: 971
Registered: 11-2012
Posted on Tuesday, March 26, 2013 - 7:45 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

Some sad, sad news. The gentleman that brought together the awareness of the GAY MEN'S SEXUAL HEALTH FOUNDATION and was just granted last week a non-profit status, passed away in his sleep early Sunday morning.

This man was the nicest gay man I had ever met. Generous and genuinely concerned for gay men's health issues on all levels was truly spiritually gifted.

Dennis Bogorad was instrumental in expediting my prostate exam when all else failed. I only knew him for a few weeks but the amount of people, gay, straight and lesbian, he helped is a testament of the pure goodness each of us have to offer the world.

To say he will be surely missed is underestimated.

God's speed Dennis - and Thank YOU.


The aim of argument, or of discussion, should not be victory, but progress.
-Joseph Joubert-
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Mr. Mansions
Senior Member
Username: ascension1

Post Number: 972
Registered: 11-2012
Posted on Tuesday, March 26, 2013 - 8:31 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

Finding Support

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dennis-bogorad/support-groups-prostate-cancer_b_25 92522.html
The aim of argument, or of discussion, should not be victory, but progress.
-Joseph Joubert-
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Buddie
Senior Member
Username: buddie

Post Number: 5913
Registered: 3-2008
Posted on Tuesday, March 26, 2013 - 9:31 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

Then lets not litter :-(
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Mr. Mansions
Senior Member
Username: ascension1

Post Number: 973
Registered: 11-2012
Posted on Wednesday, March 27, 2013 - 7:05 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

I've been a bit behind the news the past few days...

A boost for gay marriage: Justices question US law

By MARK SHERMAN | Associated Press – 1 hr 43 mins ago

WASHINGTON (AP) — Concluding two days of intense debate, the Supreme Court signaled Wednesday it could give a boost to same-sex marriage by striking down the federal law that denies legally married gay spouses a wide range of benefits offered to other couples.

[...]

http://news.yahoo.com/boost-gay-marriage-justices-us-law-210143944--politics.htm l

Good, in my humble opinion. I remember when Blacks and Whites weren't allowed to marry.

(Message edited by Ascension1 on March 27, 2013)
The aim of argument, or of discussion, should not be victory, but progress.
-Joseph Joubert-
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Buddie
Senior Member
Username: buddie

Post Number: 5916
Registered: 3-2008
Posted on Wednesday, March 27, 2013 - 8:00 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post


Yup..you was borned in the
Seat O' Judgment Not Your
Fault that some may be stymied ..
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Mr. Mansions
Senior Member
Username: ascension1

Post Number: 974
Registered: 11-2012
Posted on Wednesday, March 27, 2013 - 8:36 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

some may be stymied =
The aim of argument, or of discussion, should not be victory, but progress.
-Joseph Joubert-
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Mr. Mansions
Senior Member
Username: ascension1

Post Number: 988
Registered: 11-2012
Posted on Saturday, March 30, 2013 - 4:51 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

In attending Dennis Bogorad's funeral yesterday, the first Jewish funeral I have ever witnessed, it was a nice peaceful accumulation from all walks of life. Jewish, Christian, Muslim, Black Americans, Asian Americans, Doctors, Lawyers, Showbiz folk, and of course, Gay and Straight, Male and Female - Married couples both Gay and Straight. Rabbi's, Clergy...

An eclectic group of Souls to pay their respects to an individual Soul that moved and supported all people.

The aim of argument, or of discussion, should not be victory, but progress.
-Joseph Joubert-
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Mr. Mansions
Senior Member
Username: ascension1

Post Number: 1016
Registered: 11-2012
Posted on Thursday, April 04, 2013 - 9:34 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

Ronald Reagan Would Have Supported Gay Marriage, Daughter Patti Davis Claims
Posted: 04/04/2013 11:18 am EDT | Updated: 04/04/2013 7:02 pm EDT

Ronald Reagan's son may just expressed his fervent opposition to same-sex marriage in an editorial, but his sister has a much different view. So, evidently, would his father.

[...]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/04/ronald-reagan-gay-marriage_n_3014863.ht ml?ir=gay-voices&utm_campaign=040413&utm_medium=email&utm_source=Alert-gay-voice s&utm_content=FullStory
The aim of argument, or of discussion, should not be victory, but progress.
-Joseph Joubert-
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Mark A. Foster
Intermediate Member
Username: markfoster

Post Number: 135
Registered: 2-2013
Posted on Thursday, April 04, 2013 - 10:00 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

Yep. So does Ron Reagan (the son). Ron has also said that his mother was not as conservative as his father. As I recall, Ron and Michael Reagan also have different mothers.

Mark
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Mr. Mansions
Senior Member
Username: ascension1

Post Number: 1028
Registered: 11-2012
Posted on Saturday, April 06, 2013 - 3:27 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

Yes, Jane Wyman, Ron's first wife, gave birth to their only off-spring - Maureen.
The aim of argument, or of discussion, should not be victory, but progress.
-Joseph Joubert-
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Mark A. Foster
Intermediate Member
Username: markfoster

Post Number: 144
Registered: 2-2013
Posted on Saturday, April 06, 2013 - 3:58 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

Stephen,

That's right - Jane Wyman.
Cheers, Mark
Portal to 29 domains: http://www.markfoster.net
Dr. Mark Foster Radio Show: http://www.markalanfoster.com
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Sharon2
Senior Member
Username: sharon2468

Post Number: 4755
Registered: 8-2004
Posted on Saturday, April 06, 2013 - 7:01 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

I just looked up Jane Wyman and found out that she was buried in a nun's habit!

I've never heard of that before!!!
Our life is determined by the choices we make!
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Mark A. Foster
Intermediate Member
Username: markfoster

Post Number: 145
Registered: 2-2013
Posted on Saturday, April 06, 2013 - 7:12 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

Interesting. She must have put that into her will. Maybe that was an alternate career choice?
Cheers, Mark
Portal to 29 domains: http://www.markfoster.net
Dr. Mark Foster Radio Show: http://www.markalanfoster.com
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Mr. Mansions
Senior Member
Username: ascension1

Post Number: 1188
Registered: 11-2012
Posted on Tuesday, April 30, 2013 - 12:29 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

With the Words ‘I’m Gay,’ an N.B.A. Center Breaks a Barrier

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/30/sports/basketball/nba-center-jason-collins-com es-out-as-gay.html?_r=0

This is beginning to remind me of Reagan's speech to Gorbachev, "Tear down this wall!"
The aim of argument, or of discussion, should not be victory, but progress.
-Joseph Joubert-
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Mr. Mansions
Senior Member
Username: ascension1

Post Number: 1215
Registered: 11-2012
Posted on Thursday, May 09, 2013 - 3:23 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

Gay marriage

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/45755883/ns/msnbc-the_last_word/vp/51825404#51825404


The aim of argument, or of discussion, should not be victory, but progress.
-Joseph Joubert-
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Buddie
Senior Member
Username: buddie

Post Number: 5988
Registered: 3-2008
Posted on Thursday, May 09, 2013 - 7:44 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

in spit of ourselves
:-)
i remember when Common Law was
scandalous
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Mr. Mansions
Senior Member
Username: ascension1

Post Number: 1234
Registered: 11-2012
Posted on Sunday, May 12, 2013 - 10:09 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

'Gay Marriage' and 'Marriage Equality' -- Both Terms Matter

Posted: 05/12/2013 6:03 pm

[...]

The Power of Language

[...]

While many words in language have no negative or positive connotations, others can elicit strong reactions. This is especially true when it comes to social justice issues, discrimination in society, and the language used to describe such phenomena. Opponents of equality have over the years gone to great lengths to demonize same-sex marriage and to position "gay marriage" as a phenomenon which is inherently inferior to marriage between a man and woman. For those who hold homophobic views and who believe they "own" the institution of marriage, "gay marriage" is something bad, something less than, something to be scorned.

Related to this, campaigns for the legalization of same-sex marriage increasingly downplay the "gay" aspect and focus more on "marriage equality," which in large part is an effort to avoid having to deal with the very real stigma that is often linked with all things "gay." While this strategy to neutralize stigma has no doubt helped fuel the success of some of these campaigns, and drawn in more straight supporters, it has also had another impact: the demonization of the term "gay marriage." It should come as no surprise then that some supporters of same-sex marriage have internalized this and developed a negative view of the term.

[...]

... two very important paragraphs. It isn't just 'gay' - it is everything prejudice.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/murray-lipp/gay-marriage_b_3249733.html



History of same-sex unions

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_same-sex_unions

The aim of argument, or of discussion, should not be victory, but progress.
-Joseph Joubert-

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