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Second Wind
Senior Member
Username: second_wind

Post Number: 3133
Registered: 4-2007
Posted on Thursday, May 14, 2009 - 2:03 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

Yep, that's the family!

Very interesting story about Begich Sr. and Boggs. Looks likely that somebody didn't want them continuing their investigations......


Begich Jr. is still off the radar, it seems.
"In the end, only kindness matters."
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Second Wind
Senior Member
Username: second_wind

Post Number: 3194
Registered: 4-2007
Posted on Friday, June 05, 2009 - 8:48 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

Dr. Nick was on C2C last night!

It was good to hear him again.

I wished that someone had asked him how his brother (Mark, the new Senator) feels about his (Nick's) work and research into mind control and HAARP.

George did ask him how Mark is doing, and Nick only gave a very brief answer that he had made a trip to Washington recently, and saw Mark "in action".....

Even though I have heard him say it many times, it still chills me to the bone to hear Nick assert that the technology to remotely alter people's moods (either a single person, a small or large group, or a population) has been in use for at least 20 years. Like he says, this is done with no close-in transmitters, no implants, and certainly no direct physical contact with the victim/s.

There is one thing that still bugs the heck out of me, though. Nick is the only HAARP researcher who says that Chemtrails have nothing to do with HAARP. He simply refuses to discuss Chemtrails, aside from brief and dismissive comments.

I wish Whitley would have him on again soon. And if he does, I hope Whit will ask him how his brother feels about his research. AND, I wish Whit would press him on the Chemtrail issue.

"Oh, closely-guided plan, awaken in our hearts!"
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Lassen Sage
Senior Member
Username: lassen_sage

Post Number: 866
Registered: 5-2008
Posted on Saturday, June 06, 2009 - 1:41 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

We have been blasted by chemtrails here the last couple of wks and I have the typical sinus irritation, bleck,yuck,.... And also welcomed unseasonal rains...
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Second Wind
Senior Member
Username: second_wind

Post Number: 3358
Registered: 4-2007
Posted on Thursday, August 13, 2009 - 4:57 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

It's not the "witness" thread, but it dates back a long time, and has tons of information and personal experiences.....

so.....


BUMP
"In the end, only kindness matters."
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da~an
Senior Member
Username: daan

Post Number: 6265
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Thursday, October 08, 2009 - 10:34 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

!
"up"
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da~an
Senior Member
Username: daan

Post Number: 6288
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Saturday, October 10, 2009 - 10:19 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Arthur_Ray !!!yikes!!!
"up"
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Victoria
Intermediate Member
Username: victoria

Post Number: 176
Registered: 8-2006
Posted on Sunday, October 11, 2009 - 12:55 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

Double Yikes!!!

Sweat lodges can get really hot. I'm wondering what the temperature was in Sedona when he held the deadly event? My understanding is that only trained and qualified medicine-persons are given "permission" to conduct a sweat lodge. I wonder if James Aurthur Ray was conducting it... or if a medicine man or woman was there? It's typical that a sweat ceremony would last for an hour or more. The news report stated that the attendees were only to be in the lodge 10-15 minutes, which is hooey! I wonder what will come of him now? But did you hear how much he was charging for the event? Greed may have caught up with him, as sweat lodges are to be given without charge... like going to a church... but donations are ok.
Eschew Obfuscation
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scion
Senior Member
Username: scion

Post Number: 2709
Registered: 4-2006
Posted on Monday, October 12, 2009 - 4:12 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

Yes Second Wind, Nick would be the one to ask. That would be great!
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Second Wind
Senior Member
Username: second_wind

Post Number: 3638
Registered: 4-2007
Posted on Wednesday, October 14, 2009 - 1:44 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

The whole sweat lodge thing makes me sick. I have been repulsed by the whole "The Secret" craze. I have to say I am not surprised at Ray's involvement in this. Nor am I surprised that he will get richer around an incident that resulted in people dying.

Da~an, good call, posting about this tragedy here on this thread.

Someone close to me died in a "sweat lodge". It was, however, actually a termination scheme for a mind control victim.

I have told about it here on the board, at least once or twice.
"In the end, only kindness matters."
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Second Wind
Senior Member
Username: second_wind

Post Number: 3639
Registered: 4-2007
Posted on Wednesday, October 14, 2009 - 1:59 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

I wonder if Ray would say that these people who died or became seriously ill, were "living in a world of their own choosing"?

I wonder if he will give back to the families/individuals, the $9,000 or $10,000 that each of those people paid for the priviledge of ending up dead or hospitalized?

What a load of crap.

Were more intended to die?

Have any of you read about the materials used to construct the "sweat lodge"?

Can you say, "Small-Scale Jonestown"?
"In the end, only kindness matters."
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Second Wind
Senior Member
Username: second_wind

Post Number: 3640
Registered: 4-2007
Posted on Wednesday, October 14, 2009 - 5:24 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

Check this out:

The Deleted Tweets



The local Sheriff said that Ray "refused to talk with us", and then left the state.






And, this is not the first time there have been incidents like this at that same resort, under Ray's direction.


http://www.mercurynews.com/california/ci_13557979?nclick_check=1





So, just who is this guy?


Excerpts from The Secret Story website:


Following his undergraduate studies in business management and behavioral sciences, he became a Sales Manager for AT&T.

In 1987 AT&T commissioned James Ray to build and manage a telemarketing operation, for which he received top national honors. He subsequently moved into his area of true expertise—the field of human behavior and accelerated performance. At this time, Mr. Ray joined AT&T's National Education Center and the AT&T School of Business.

Mr. Ray went on to form Quantum Consulting Group in 1992 where he continued to create lasting change by performing cultural assessments and culture change initiatives for many major corporations including Boeing Aircraft, Tropicana, and AT&T.

Because of his commitment to understanding and influencing human behavior, he and his associates have done extensive personal studies in organizational development, human potential, neuro-linguistics, accelerated learning techniques and various other cutting edge technologies, which enable individuals to open up their untapped potential and utilize their own entrepreneurial spirit to improve themselves and the companies for which they work.





My first reaction to seeing his face was that he reminded me of a car salesman. Now I find out that "sales" is his specialty!

Any of you ever been through some agressive "sales training"?

I have.....when, against my own judgement, I took a telemarketing job (advertising sales), with Southwestern Bell back in the 1980s.

Talk about spooky mind control.



This guy's seminars are almost as bad in that respect, as an Amway convention.
"In the end, only kindness matters."
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Mark
Senior Member
Username: mark

Post Number: 2152
Registered: 2-2001
Posted on Wednesday, October 14, 2009 - 10:14 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

Second Wind says,
I have been repulsed by the whole "The Secret" craze.

C2C reported that the group of people involved with the writing of that book are all suing each other now for control of the profits.
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Victoria
Intermediate Member
Username: victoria

Post Number: 183
Registered: 8-2006
Posted on Wednesday, October 14, 2009 - 10:58 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

Check this link out... it reminds me a little of "mind-controy" back in a more innocent and charming time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LI_Oe-jtgdI

... so it's been around forever and we just didn't recognize it as such.



BTW -- has anyone had any training in, or had any experience with NLP (Neuro Linguistic Programming)? I've never gotten a straight answer from people involved in it and it's always seemed a little (a lot) creepy to me.
Eschew Obfuscation
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Second Wind
Senior Member
Username: second_wind

Post Number: 3648
Registered: 4-2007
Posted on Thursday, October 15, 2009 - 12:37 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

Speaking of mind control.....I made a post here a while ago. I didn't follow my own advice and compose it in notepad, and then copy and paste.

I don't know where the hell it went. Sheesh.



Mark, I didn't hear that C2C episode. However, it doesn't surprise me in the slightest to learn that those "emperors" had no clothes. What is that expression about "The love of money...."?




Victoria, that's a great find there!!!! Classic propaganda and mass influence thinly disguised as "a good thing". He, too, could have been a great used car salesman!



Yes, NLP is most definitely a tool of control of people's minds.

Just do a google search using the terms "NLP (or spell it out) and Mind Control".
"In the end, only kindness matters."
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Victoria
Intermediate Member
Username: victoria

Post Number: 186
Registered: 8-2006
Posted on Thursday, October 15, 2009 - 2:55 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

SW -- yes, I have looked it up on the net, but I was wondering if anyone here on the board had any experience with NLP (Neuro Linguistic Programming), how it was used and for what purpose, and what they thought of it.

Just curious.

I've wondered about it since I was introduced to a woman in Boise, ID in the mid 90's who used it professionally -- but she would never give me any details as to how she used it and for what proposes. She was VERY secretive about it, so I felt that she was deceptive and untrustworthy in her behavior. If she used it in a legitimate way, I though, she would be open and up-front... but that was not the case. She seemed a little "spooky" like an agent of some sort. Just my impression.

Thanks
Eschew Obfuscation
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Second Wind
Senior Member
Username: second_wind

Post Number: 3651
Registered: 4-2007
Posted on Saturday, October 17, 2009 - 1:31 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

I am not positive, but I seem to recall that Dubbie has experience with it. I know she has experience with hypnosis, IIRC.


-----------------------------


Native Elder Addresses Deaths In Sweat Lodge

Black Hills Portal News

"When you do ceremony - you can not have money on your mind. We deal with the pure sincere energy to create healing that comes from everyone in that circle of ceremony. The heart and mind must be connected. When you involve money, it changes the energy of healing. The person wants to get what they paid for; the Spirit Grandfathers will not be there, our way of life is now being exploited! You do more damage than good. No˛ mention˛ of monetary energy should exist in healing, not even with a can of love donations. When that energy exists, they will not even come. Only after the ceremony, between the person that is being healed and the Intercessor who has helped connect with the Great Spirit, the energy of money can be given out of appreciation. That exchange of energy is from the heart; it is private and does not involve the Grandfathers! Whatever gift of appreciation the person who received the help, can now give the Intercessor whatever they feel their healing is worth."




---------------------------------------------


Conference call between Ray, his staff, and survivors of Sedona

"Mind control is a subject commonly found in works of speculative fiction, but rarely in reality. Self-help guru James Arthur Ray is the latest to use mind-control, called coercive persuasion among psychologists, in the sweat lodge tragedy that occurred last week. James Ray is currently under investigation for two deaths and 19 additional hospitalizations that occurred at his Spiritual Warrior Retreat last week in Sedona, AZ during the sweat lodge portion.

Last night James Ray made his first public statement regarding the tragedy and today he had a conference call that was only for the victims of his latest retreat-gone-wrong. Why does James Ray want to have private communication with his victims? What is he hiding? It would appear that he is psychologically tampering with witnesses as well as continuing to hit them up for money, trying to enroll them into more of his programs, and giving them bad advice."





"This, I think, is the worst part of the entire conference call. Barb is one of James Ray’s staff members and she goes on to talk “of the two that had passed and they left their bodies during the ceremony and had so much fun they chose not to come back and that was their choice that they made.” This is going to be really hard for James Ray and his people to explain when the autopsy results are released, because people do not cook themselves to death. They just don’t. Barb implying they do is asserting James Ray’s innocence and falsely supporting that the survivors are alive because they chose to live. In actuality, James Ray had to be interrupted and the participants were physically removed from the sweat lodge because they were not capable of transporting themselves."





How does this happen? Why doesn't EVERYONE have some kind of built-in self-preservation mechanism, that allows them to see the red flags of groups/gurus like this????


Ye Gods! The participants had to sign releases of liability!!!! HELLO?????







Sheriff says deaths "not accidental"

In the call Wednesday, Ray stressed the importance of eating healthy food, exercising, resting, meditation and surrounding themselves with "like-minded individuals."

"Remember all that we've learned and experienced and knowing by law of the universe that out of every apparent chaos comes a greater state of order, an order that never existed prior to the chaos," he said, after asking those on the conference call to imagine themselves standing in a prayer circle.






A woman identified as Barb told the callers that a channeler at the retreat last Friday said the deceased had an out-of-body experience during the sweat lodge ceremony and "were having so much fun that they chose not to come back."



Oh, well, OK then, if a channeler said it, then it must be true, and it must make what happened OK.......right?






The recording of the conference call was made and transcribed by one of the listeners, said Tom McFeeley, who also listened to the call and provided the transcript to the AP. McFeeley is Brown's cousin and has been acting as the Brown family spokesman.

"We find it offensive that anyone would classify their death as a choice," McFeeley said. "We don't believe she chose to suffocate in a sweat lodge. We don't think she chose to fast for 36 hours without food or water and then have improper nutritional care. She did not choose to have improper medical care on site."




Fewer than a dozen callers were identified in the transcript, all of whom praised Ray and described his intentions as "pure" and their experiences as "profound." They also expressed sympathy for the families of the victims but suggested that the deaths of Brown and Shore were by choice.

"It breaks my heart to know that the families are suffering," said one caller identified as Brent. "I think that the people that left, I do believe they made their own choices, whether on this level or the next, but I do feel really for the families."




OMG, what an unmitigated load of utter excrement!!!! There just IS NO PONY in the middle of this pile of horse s***!!!!!


Good god, people, STOP DRINKING THE CULT COOLAID!!!!
"In the end, only kindness matters."
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Second Wind
Senior Member
Username: second_wind

Post Number: 3890
Registered: 4-2007
Posted on Wednesday, January 20, 2010 - 1:18 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

On C2C tonight.....

"A doctor of Psychology and Metaphysics, Eldon Taylor will discuss his studies of mind control, brainwashing, subliminal suggestion, and reverse speech."
"In the end, only kindness matters."
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flux
Intermediate Member
Username: flux

Post Number: 156
Registered: 6-2009
Posted on Wednesday, January 20, 2010 - 3:46 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

Thank You SW! I have been WIDE awake since I read your post!

http://www.daily.pk/norway-time-hole-%E2%80%9Cleak%E2%80%9D-plunges-northern-hem isphere-into-chaos-14311/

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Second Wind
Senior Member
Username: second_wind

Post Number: 3892
Registered: 4-2007
Posted on Wednesday, January 20, 2010 - 4:03 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

Yeah, but....unfortunately, the promo about the discussion being about "....will discuss his studies of mind control, brainwashing, subliminal suggestion, and reverse speech" was completely inaccurate.

The discussion was still interesting, but only just barely even touched on the above topics. It was actually focused on his newest book about "What does it all mean" or some such.

Oh, well......still interesting, but kind of a bait and switch. Probably just a mistake.
"In the end, only kindness matters."
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Second Wind
Senior Member
Username: second_wind

Post Number: 3893
Registered: 4-2007
Posted on Wednesday, January 20, 2010 - 4:09 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

Oh, yes, forgot to say, yes, the info about the piece from Pakistan Daily, WAS interesting.

So, yeah, there was some discussion of HAARP with regards to climate/atmospheric manipulation, and a tiny bit about subliminals.......

By the way, it would be good to post the link you posted, over in the "Superstorm/Climate Change" thread.

I've been talking about the fact that the weather is being manipulated since the early 1990s, and my family has been consistently calling me a conspiracy nut.

I have given up discussing it with them, even though there is now VERY credible evidence that it has been going on for a long time, and is getting critical now, thanks to HAARP and Chemtrails....which often work together.
"In the end, only kindness matters."
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flux
Intermediate Member
Username: flux

Post Number: 157
Registered: 6-2009
Posted on Wednesday, January 20, 2010 - 5:02 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

Well, I tried to get thru for a good bit on first time caller but I had no luck what-so-ever ......

Sometimes you have to wade through the chaff to find the wheat!

SW, as it applies to me, I consider the moniker of "conspiracy nut" a compliment but that's just me.

My remark today at financial offices in the hospital, "I often have to curtail my comments, otherwise, I'm just another "conspiracy nut" and there is a reason for that." "It's because it IS nuts out there!!!"

We went on to discuss a wide range of topics and she was smiling the whole time and nodding her head so don't ever shut up!
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moonbeam
Advanced Member
Username: mia

Post Number: 223
Registered: 9-2009
Posted on Wednesday, January 20, 2010 - 10:06 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

Glad you are back SW, have missed your post. Those post have opened my eyes.
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Second Wind
Senior Member
Username: second_wind

Post Number: 3896
Registered: 4-2007
Posted on Thursday, January 21, 2010 - 6:16 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

Sometimes, when they non and smile, it can be difficult to know (without being downright rude) if they are simply humoring you. I some situations (like the one you described, flux) the person pretty much has to at least be "tolerant". In other situations, people can just roll their eyes, or come right out and call you a conspiracy nut job.


Moonbeam, thank you for the kind words. It makes me feel that my time has not been wasted, if anyone has been helped, awakened, led to information, etc.

"In the end, only kindness matters."
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miaree9
Senior Member
Username: miaree9

Post Number: 3852
Registered: 5-2005
Posted on Friday, January 22, 2010 - 5:01 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

SW, I second moonbeam's comment.

And in keeping with the theme of this thread, I found this article about how advertisers and politicians try to influence our decisions: "Spellcasters": The Hunt for the "Buy-Button" in Your Brain.
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Second Wind
Senior Member
Username: second_wind

Post Number: 3905
Registered: 4-2007
Posted on Saturday, January 23, 2010 - 5:10 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

Excellent, scary and angering article, Miaree.

And thanks for your comment, as well.

-----

I looked back on what I have posted above, and in the past couple of days, and cringe at my typos....not to mention the fact that I have again allowed myself to be emotionally manipulated by shows (both on radio, and on TV).
"In the end, only kindness matters."
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John_Doe420
Advanced Member
Username: john_doe420

Post Number: 239
Registered: 10-2009
Posted on Saturday, January 23, 2010 - 5:50 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

Glad you are back, btw, SW.

In response to this continuing subject....what do you think the answer is? Generally speaking of course....certainly there are no fix-all situations for the damages that have been visited upon the peoples affected by this, in the past, and continuing unto today in some form or another most assuredly....

Is there a way to punish those who have perpetrated this atrocities? Would anything short of a full-on revolution, hopefully peaceful, but not necessarily so, actually make any difference at all?

In the end, sadly, even if "gains" are made, the face will just change...even if the liars and criminals are revealed, they will simply shift the identities of such to someone with a more "friendly" face, who seems to be "on our side", so as to convince us we are "winning", when really the game would still be played in the background. ThEy certainly arent going to halt plans they have been cooking for decades, and would probably go out of their way to prevent such from occurring under ANY and ALL circumstances.

I love Jesse Ventura, lets say, for what he's attempting to do in his sphere of influence...but in the end, if I were him, I wouldn't be flying on any planes....just an example.
Sonny: Do you think we were all created for a purpose? Id like to
think so. [looks at his hand] Denser alloy. My father gave it to
me. I think he wanted me to kill you.
-I Robot -2004
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Second Wind
Senior Member
Username: second_wind

Post Number: 3908
Registered: 4-2007
Posted on Saturday, January 23, 2010 - 7:17 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

TY, JD.

I agree with you. There will never be any accountability or compensation for victims.

That is, as you know, a large part of what is behind my anger and frustration around the subject.
"In the end, only kindness matters."
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John_Doe420
Advanced Member
Username: john_doe420

Post Number: 240
Registered: 10-2009
Posted on Saturday, January 23, 2010 - 7:38 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

nothing would please me more than to see the villians exposed to the light of day for what has been done to folks such as yourself...and who knows, maybe myself....maybe yet to come even....of course even if the sh*t ever came out, even partially acknowledged, the lines would begin about how it was necessary for this or that perceived end, regardless of how many people were hurt, killed, or psychologically crippled...

I like to be a hopeful idealist sometimes and believe that one day, even if far away, those who abuse will be made to pay in some form or another whether in a public context or a personal one.....color me a cautious optimist on that particular matter.
Sonny: Do you think we were all created for a purpose? Id like to
think so. [looks at his hand] Denser alloy. My father gave it to
me. I think he wanted me to kill you.
-I Robot -2004
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Second Wind
Senior Member
Username: second_wind

Post Number: 3910
Registered: 4-2007
Posted on Saturday, January 23, 2010 - 8:09 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

Like you, "I want to believe".

I like to tell myself that all the guilty will pay at some point, in some way. But that's only a lame hope. I have no REAL reason to believe that is true. Karma is just something I "like" to believe in.


And, while we are touching on the subject of pessimism versus optimism......here's two things:

"The nice part about being a pessimist is that you are constantly being either proven right or pleasantly surprised." George F. Will


and.....


Eeyore Days

In contrast to those annoying happy types, miserable people are better at decision-making and less gullible, his experiments showed.

While cheerfulness fosters creativity, gloominess breeds attentiveness and careful thinking, Professor Joe Forgas told Australian Science Magazine.

Professor Forgas said: "Whereas positive mood seems to promote creativity, flexibility, co-operation and reliance on mental shortcuts, negative moods trigger more attentive, careful thinking, paying greater attention to the external world."

The study also found that sad people were better at stating their case through written arguments, which Forgas said showed that a "mildly negative mood may actually promote a more concrete, accommodative and ultimately more successful communication style".




I enjoyed reading the comments following that article.


People like my sister would be quick to say they would much prefer to live in bliss, even though it is based on ignorance of reality.
"In the end, only kindness matters."
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John_Doe420
Advanced Member
Username: john_doe420

Post Number: 241
Registered: 10-2009
Posted on Saturday, January 23, 2010 - 8:14 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

I don't prefer to live in bliss and ignore reality, personally. In fact, half of my family considered me quite negative and "depressed" for a number of years.

The truth is, I don't believe in depression, at least not for me personally. If I have been negative, it has been in response to something negative that has happened....When I am positive, it tends to be when the situation is manifested in such a way as to provide me with the opportunity to feel positive.

Also, curiously, plenty of times, when things seem at their worst, it lets me feel more free to be constructive and positive, because in those cases i feel like "well thats what it is, now lets see what we can do with it".

I am well known for being more motivated and cheerful when disasters happen, in fact. Which can be a problem because somtimes it TAKES things falling to pieces to get me motivated enough to fix them.

So i would agree, a certain degree of negativity can be quite productive mentally....however, irrational negativity is another thing altogether. It is fine to be negative when you plan on doing something about it, but not so productive otherwise.

Of course there are situations such as these where one probably CANNOT do a thing about it...but even then, just getting on here and speaking about your experiences and thoughts on the matters, can do wonders opening the eyes of those around you, so thats not exactly doing "nothing"....as long as there are people willing to stand up and tell the truth then the fire will stay alive....the key is let it keep you energized and not let yourself fall into that "hopeless" type of negativity about it.
Sonny: Do you think we were all created for a purpose? Id like to
think so. [looks at his hand] Denser alloy. My father gave it to
me. I think he wanted me to kill you.
-I Robot -2004
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xretsim
Senior Member
Username: xretsim

Post Number: 1281
Registered: 2-2001
Posted on Saturday, January 23, 2010 - 9:13 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

like everyone else, those who do evil shall one day know the truth, and see everything with perfect and frightening clarity.
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Second Wind
Senior Member
Username: second_wind

Post Number: 3911
Registered: 4-2007
Posted on Sunday, January 24, 2010 - 7:35 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

JD......sometimes I am amazed at the things you post, and how often I agree with your outlook.

Being negative (realistic) IS a motivator, like you said. But I repeat that, for me, anyway, when things are unsolvable for long periods of time, and there seem to BE NO SOLUTIONS, that is when depression kicks in.

I have been feeling pretty hopeless for a while now, but coming on here to post about it does not help me. It makes me feel even more isolated than I already do.

I find that its usually better for me to just write in my own personal diary. Besides, there have been too many times that I have regretted sharing my experiences and feelings, and I don't just mean here on the board.

That is not meant to hurt anyone's feelings. There are some here who seem to care, and I love you for it (and you few KNOW who you are). But I think I am kind of shutting down.....and I know that there are many (both here on the board, and in my real life) who will be relieved.



----------

Xretsim, I like to think that you are correct. But you know what? It does not make me feel better. What I want is to see them tried, convicted and punished, right before my very eyes.

But, that's not going to happen.

And so, what rings in my ears is a voice saying, "Get over it; somebody should have taught you that life is not fair." And that voice belongs a the perpetrators.
"In the end, only kindness matters."
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xretsim
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Username: xretsim

Post Number: 1283
Registered: 2-2001
Posted on Sunday, January 24, 2010 - 5:38 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

i am right. if you want to stay angry that is your prerogative.
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Second Wind
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Username: second_wind

Post Number: 3914
Registered: 4-2007
Posted on Monday, January 25, 2010 - 8:56 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

Wow, what an unkind response!!! And SO easy for you to say! You have not walked in my shoes. Slightly judgemental, are you?

My wish for you is that you never have to deal with the memories and long-term effects of the kinds of stuff I went through; or, spend the rest (or a huge portion) of your life questioning what has been done to you and your own memories, or discovering that the people who were supposed to protect you, in fact, harmed you, as well as turned you over to others who harmed you.

If you wish to stay blissfully ignorant, or to maintain a naive belief that "karma" is real, and is enough, that's YOUR prerogative.
"In the end, only kindness matters."
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NATiVE ALiEN
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Username: blue_screen

Post Number: 3336
Registered: 4-2008
Posted on Tuesday, January 26, 2010 - 11:40 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

Coercive Mind Control Tactics
http://www.psychologicalharassment.com/coercive_mind_control_tactics.htm

ADVANCED TECHNOLOGIES
http://www.psychologicalharassment.com/advanced_technologies.htm
"This gets me to a question that returns to my mind practically every day of my life: what are the visitors?"

Whitley Strieber
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da~an
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Username: daan

Post Number: 6588
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Friday, February 26, 2010 - 9:49 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

!!!
"up"
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Second Wind
Senior Member
Username: second_wind

Post Number: 4286
Registered: 4-2007
Posted on Sunday, March 14, 2010 - 11:39 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

I was pleased to hear Dr. Nick Begich on Dreamland yesterday. I know he's been on before, but still, I was glad Whitley had him on again.

I was relieved (if that's the word) to hear Nick bring up the fact that, not only is the technology in existence to cause "voices in the head", but in fact, to cause an ACTUAL "EXPERIENCE SET", which the perceiver would not be able to differentiate from real.

This has been my bone of contention with the "experiencer" phenomenon, because I know that technology can cause any kind of "experience"; and IF we were not aware of this technology, we would swear on our life the experience was "genuine".

I find it interesting, to say the least, that Whitley just pretty much let that particular topic "pass" with no discussion.
"In the end, only kindness matters."
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Roxie
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Username: roxanne

Post Number: 87
Registered: 2-2009
Posted on Monday, March 15, 2010 - 9:17 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

Coercive Mind Control Tactics:

This is exactly what I was referring to over on the Witness thread.

Point by point, was exactly how my husband and I were "controlled" by our families.

But, growing up with NPD parents, we had no idea that we were experiencing anything but "normal" childhoods. Only after breaking away from our families did I realize that this was anything but normal. And they are still trying to bring us back into the fold. Once they realized that we were breaking away and seeing them for what they were, it has been their life's mission to bring us back. Even going so far as filing a lawsuit against us.

It's all just too coincidental.

And what better way to create a broken, pliable, submissive candidate for mind control than starting from birth, using the "normal family" as the ultimate mechanism?
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Victoria
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Username: victoria

Post Number: 318
Registered: 8-2006
Posted on Monday, March 15, 2010 - 10:40 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

The drop-out rate for high school is about 25%.

Maybe coercive psychological systems are part of the reason?

"Coercive psychological systems are behavioral change programs which use psychological force in a coercive way to cause the learning and adoption of an ideology or designated set of beliefs, ideas, attitudes, or behaviors." -- from NAs link above.
Eschew Obfuscation
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Roxie
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Username: roxanne

Post Number: 88
Registered: 2-2009
Posted on Monday, March 15, 2010 - 11:25 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

Victoria,

Could be.

Question is, are they dropping out because of coercive tactics, as in, they are coerced to drop out, or because they simply won't go along with the tactics?
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Victoria
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Username: victoria

Post Number: 320
Registered: 8-2006
Posted on Monday, March 15, 2010 - 2:06 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

Good point!
Eschew Obfuscation
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Second Wind
Senior Member
Username: second_wind

Post Number: 4473
Registered: 4-2007
Posted on Wednesday, April 07, 2010 - 2:05 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

I have already missed the first hour.....and it probably will not be anything he has not covered many times....

But Nick Begich is on C2C as we speak.

Well known lecturer on new technologies, health and earth science related issues Dr. Nick Begich will discuss the latest updates on HAARP technology as well as the rapid advances in mind effects and enhancing ESP potentials.
"In the end, only kindness matters."
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blue
Senior Member
Username: jennyblue

Post Number: 759
Registered: 3-2007
Posted on Wednesday, April 07, 2010 - 11:51 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

so how do we/you defend ourselves from this kinda thing?

It sounds like if mind control isnt part of your world now -- its on its way. Are there kinds of buildings (I, for instance, have aluminum siding -- the house came that way -- does that enhance delivery systems or hinder? what about having multiple electronics going on in your immediate vicinity? Can one strengthen one's aura to filter out the wavelengths used in mind control?

I find the discussion a bit too lopsided -- all about what they can do to us and very little about what we can do to protect ourselves. Or have I missed something?
We are the ones we've been waiting for.
Hopi Elders 2001.

to be a rock and still to roll . . .
change we can believe in is here -- The Ed Show
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xretsim
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Username: xretsim

Post Number: 1326
Registered: 2-2001
Posted on Thursday, April 08, 2010 - 4:03 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

>so how do we/you defend ourselves from this kinda thing?

the really dangerous mind control comes from our culture(s) and the people we associate with. every day we are being manipulated and "adjusted" in countless ways, and act automatically, like robots much of the time. i think it helps to just be aware of it.
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Stephen in AZ
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Username: stephenm

Post Number: 2415
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Monday, July 05, 2010 - 10:36 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

It might be awkward to live in a house in which all electromagnetic waves were prevented from entering. I read of an experiment that was done in which people were placed in such a room, and they burst into tears, even though they weren't sad. Evidently our bodies need, and expect, a certain amount of such things.
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Victoria
Advanced Member
Username: victoria

Post Number: 464
Registered: 8-2006
Posted on Monday, July 12, 2010 - 1:43 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

Have you heard of the new film by DiCaprio, "INCEPTION," coming out July 16?

What the mind can conceive,
man will achieve!
ARE WE THERE YET?


"In 'Inception' Mr. DiCaprio plays Cobb, the leader of a group of “extractors”: people who are able to participate in and shape the dreams of others. With these skills, extractors can teach clients how to safeguard secrets locked away in their subconscious, or how to steal them from unfortified minds. Presented with the inverse challenge of implanting an idea in someone’s head, Cobb assembles his team and designs an intricate mind heist that leads them through layers of dreams within dreams, and to a mysterious woman from Cobb’s past."

“As soon as you’re talking about dreams, the potential of the human mind is infinite. It has to feel like you could go absolutely anywhere by the end of the film. And it has to work on a massive scale.”
_________________________________________________
Too many people enjoy the comfort of opinion
without struggling through the labor of thought. JFK

...so... Eschew Obfuscation! ;-)
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Second Wind
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Username: second_wind

Post Number: 4795
Registered: 4-2007
Posted on Tuesday, July 13, 2010 - 10:25 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

Good grief!

yet another movie to make reference to things VERY REAL, while at the same time, make them out to be FICTION.....



"In the end, only kindness matters."
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Stephen in AZ
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Username: stephenm

Post Number: 2623
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Friday, January 21, 2011 - 10:24 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

Stopping by...
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Second Wind
Senior Member
Username: second_wind

Post Number: 5315
Registered: 4-2007
Posted on Sunday, February 06, 2011 - 10:57 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

ambivalent
"In the end, only kindness matters."
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Second Wind
Senior Member
Username: second_wind

Post Number: 5390
Registered: 4-2007
Posted on Sunday, March 06, 2011 - 9:33 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

It never ceases to amaze me how things interconnect.......and how discoveries are so often serendipitous.


Due to the most recent Dreamland interview with Robert Duncan O'Finioan, one thing led to another, and I discovered several things.

First, I discovered this interview from over a year ago:

James Gilliland interviewing Dr. John Hall, on the subject of satellite terror weapons, psychotronics, mind manipulation

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3E2eE2azCig


Now, Hall is not new to me (or to many of you here). He was on C2C last week or so. And, I have heard him on C2C before.....or on some program, I am not sure at this second which one.

But I have to admit I was surprised to find this interview of him by James. It is an excellent interview.......

And even though history on this board (and with google searches) shows me that these subjects come up with an almost predicatable regularity, I cannot be completely jaded about that. After all, "sweeps" periods do not only affect Television.......they now affect the internet. And Sweeps is a double-edged sword, because information that people want to hear comes to the forefront during these periods, even though it gets exploited.






Yet.....I am suspect of "Dr. Hall" for several reasons. First of all, he is an anesthesiologist/pain management doctor, so there is, right off the bat, a "conflict of interests", it seems to me. He more than likely has people within his practice, who are PAYING him (or their insurance companies are, or Medicare/Medicaid are) for treatment of pain conditions which, by his own testimony, could very well be caused by the very technologies he professes to be fighting against, and is selling books about.

So, while he puts out information that needs to be recognized, I cannot help but see the strong potential for conflict of interest with him.



OK, the other thing I discovered, serendipitously, as a result of having listened to the O'Finioan interview on dreamland, is this:

The Presidential Commission for the Study of Bioethical Issues The St. Regis Washington, DC 923 16th and K Streets, N.W. Washington, DC 20006 February 28 - March 1, 2011

This is a series of clips from testimony given at these hearings, by victims of these types of experimentations.

here are just two.....and I chose these because they are the most articulate, although that's not fair, really, because these people were mostly given TWO MINUTES to present their testimonies to this commision.

Keep that in mind, not only listening to these two, but in case you watch any more of the many testimonies in this series of testimonies. Two minutes to testify to this kind of torture, is a travesty and an insult......but we have to believe that it's better than nothing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eUbpTGMhPqI&feature=related



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9P57Dt3ROJA&feature=BF&list=UL2r0o6ZBuccc&index=1 8



This one bothers me the most, I think, because not only does he talk about specific issues that are pertinent to my own life, but also because I find it STRANGE that this is (probably) the ONLY testimony given in this series, where the person's statement of their name and location is EDITED OUT of the testimony.


Intense testimony




There is an official government website linked on this series, where the entire conference can be heard, so it COULD BE that his identity is revealed there, where on these snippets, it has been edited out. I plan to listen to the audio presented on the official site, to see if this is so.

Still....I found it incredibly personally ironic, that this particular witness' identity is edited out......



Stories about people like Robert Duncan O'Finioan are sensational and interesting.....and I am NOT disputing the possibility of his experiences. Because of my own memories, I know that what he testifies to is not impossible to fathom.


I would be very interested to know if O'Finioan has experienced any of the types of harassment described by these people who have given testimony before a government-appointed commission?





(Message edited by second_wind on March 06, 2011)
"In the end, only kindness matters."
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Second Wind
Senior Member
Username: second_wind

Post Number: 5391
Registered: 4-2007
Posted on Sunday, March 06, 2011 - 10:22 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

And speaking of Dr. Hall.....and how there is always more than one side to any story.....and validating my instincts about this Dr. Hall.....


I discovered this from just over one year ago....



http://www.kens5.com/home/Stalked-drugged-and-raped-Is-it-happening-in-San-Anton io.html


It would be worth your time, if you have ANY interest in this topic, to listen to the story above TWICE...and to read some of the comments following the piece.


I smell a rat in this Dr. Hall.......


From the above piece:



'He told me ... I would be stalked'

Vurbeff says her troubles didn’t start until she met two men.

One would become her ex-boyfriend; the other was his partner in a San Antonio pain clinic, Dr. John Hall.

Vurbeff said: “The very first time I met him, we went to his house on the Fourth of July, and he told me that because I was already there in his house, that I would be the next victim, that I would be stalked.”

Vurbeff found the doctor’s prophecy to be correct. She suffered months of oddness:

Lights left on. Doors open. Furniture moved. Her clothes dryer disassembled. Her friends said they noticed the strange happenings. They tell the I-Team they even witnessed a gas oven left turned on.

“As soon as you walked in the house, you smelled gas," one friend said. "The whole house smelled of gas. Immediately turned it off, opened up the doors, but that thing doesn't turn on by itself. And it had been running a good length of time."

Another friend said she and Vurbeff were stalked at a mall.

Vurbeff said all these happenings culminated in an assault. The 39-year old believes someone drugged the food in her home and returned later to rape her.

“I know something happened to me, because... a woman knows,” Vurbeff stated.

She filed a report and was briefly hospitalized with signs of sexual assault.




Good God.


Have these people been reading my diaries, dating back into the mid-1970s?



More evidence that disinformation disguises itself as an expose'.
"In the end, only kindness matters."
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Second Wind
Senior Member
Username: second_wind

Post Number: 5392
Registered: 4-2007
Posted on Sunday, March 06, 2011 - 10:28 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

The more one tries to get to the truth in these matters, the more disinformation takes over, to the point that it becomes almost impossible to know who the "perps" are.

That is by design.
"In the end, only kindness matters."
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Whitley Strieber
Moderator
Username: strieber

Post Number: 777
Registered: 2-2001
Posted on Sunday, March 06, 2011 - 3:51 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

Good God is right! Especially the location, San Antonio because I went through all manner of odd stuff growing up there, and I know others who did, too. I will look into this doctor.
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Second Wind
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Username: second_wind

Post Number: 5393
Registered: 4-2007
Posted on Sunday, March 06, 2011 - 11:25 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

Yes, I had intended to point out the interesting coincidence of his location, given your history of weirdness there.

Whitley, were you NOT familiar with this doctor before? He's all over the internet and youtube, and has been for years.

(Message edited by second_wind on March 06, 2011)
"In the end, only kindness matters."
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Second Wind
Senior Member
Username: second_wind

Post Number: 5668
Registered: 4-2007
Posted on Monday, August 01, 2011 - 4:48 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post


"In the end, only kindness matters."
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Buddie
Senior Member
Username: buddie

Post Number: 4483
Registered: 3-2008
Posted on Monday, August 01, 2011 - 5:22 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

Watching the movie/documentery
called The Sleep Room its...
an Eye Opener.. and though you
have to almost watch until the
very end to see that during the
Cold War we were Victims ...
stick with it..its a True Crime
Case
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Second Wind
Senior Member
Username: second_wind

Post Number: 5670
Registered: 4-2007
Posted on Monday, August 01, 2011 - 6:50 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

Yes, that documentary is one of many eye-openers...and yet, it only scratches the surface.


Yes, we were used.......
"In the end, only kindness matters."
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Mama Shine
Senior Member
Username: mama_shine

Post Number: 14520
Registered: 9-2006
Posted on Monday, August 01, 2011 - 7:06 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

SW,

For some reason I was reviewing
this thread morning before last. Meant to
bump it up but for some reason I forgot
and even forgot what I was looking
for and why? Actually I dunno why I'm
typing this post... lol
I must create a system, or be enslaved by another man's. ~William Blake

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Second Wind
Senior Member
Username: second_wind

Post Number: 5673
Registered: 4-2007
Posted on Monday, August 01, 2011 - 7:13 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

It's pretty bizarre how things like that work, isn't it, Mama?



Cycles.......
"In the end, only kindness matters."
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sahgwa
Senior Member
Username: sahgwa

Post Number: 578
Registered: 3-2010
Posted on Monday, August 08, 2011 - 2:20 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

ummmmm http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1372538/Are-government-microwave-mind-co ntrol-tests-causing-TV-presenters-brains-melt-down.html

kind of funny kind of weird.
Observation convinces me that there are beings of intelligence higher than human and that the only chance for mankind to advance as a whole is for individuals to make contact with such Beings.Crowley
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Buddie
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Username: buddie

Post Number: 4501
Registered: 3-2008
Posted on Monday, August 08, 2011 - 4:31 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

Not sure if othewr people
encounter this with Microsoft..
Some sites I go to they will
completely shut my system down..
I find it weird?
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bean
Senior Member
Username: tina

Post Number: 1742
Registered: 12-2001
Posted on Tuesday, August 09, 2011 - 8:44 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

Sahgwa! What a great example of how seriously we should listen ( not) and believe (not) in what we are being fed by most of the news and media!!
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flux
Advanced Member
Username: flux

Post Number: 278
Registered: 1-2011
Posted on Tuesday, August 09, 2011 - 9:48 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

It is no different than individuals trying to impose their own reality on others simply because they have elevated themselves to some "higher" aspect of consciousness. Either by "leading the way" with regurgitated "facts" replete with excerpts and links to support their "findings".
Or the command to replace your "box" with their own, all the while, proclaiming the supplant isn't just another one. The only thing accomplished is the perpetuation of the very thing they so vigorously condemn in the first place.
Welcome to "enlightenment" in the information age.
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blue
Senior Member
Username: jennyblue

Post Number: 1075
Registered: 3-2007
Posted on Tuesday, August 09, 2011 - 10:40 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

. . . which is why it is all the more important 4US to keep our heads above this tangle of intrigue lest we be pulled further into this bottomless pit. I think they have pulled out all the stops and do not care particularly if their "devices" are uncovered or if their "handiwork" is out there for all 2sea. They believe, even if WE do not, something is coming which will change the world as we know it. The more fear they can generate, the better.

My feelings: investigate (if you must), discuss (if you must -- and some of us do), but keep yourself in as positive place as possible. When you feel pulled down into it (personally) think happy thoughts 2counter. If uncovering what has been happening to us for a very long time now (in many cases -- generations) brings you down -- step away from it. Breathe fresher air.

Whatever the details of these many atrocities -- I have concluded that their ultimate purpose is this: to stop people from evolving, from moving on -- from accepting the light that is flowing into us and that is purging us of our bad habits. Observe, evaluate, but do not become immersed in such a way as to find yourself entangled w/the world that evil has created. Fear is evil's way of seducing you to enter what many call hell.

Nick was on C2C last night. He made an excellent point. We need to have the conversation. We need to be bringing these technologies out in the open and the general population needs to become part of the conversation. People can run (and maybe should) run away from admitting to themselves it might be happening to them (or even other people) but to not be discussing these technologies and how they might be used, can be used, are being used -- is both ignorant and stupid. We should be aware of the legislation that is already being passed supporting/negating/regulating these technologies. How does the mainstream news justify the fact that major legislation is continually being passed that affects people's lives regarding technologies that people know nothing of . . . .? Weather control legislation/technologies/treaties.

One of things that bothers me about a lot of people who believe in conspiracy theories is that its always "the government". BS! Its the soviets and the chinese and the mafia and corporations and spoiled rich kids and the list goes on and on ... These technologies arent controlled by our government -- its a free-for-all.

It is not surprising that we are having an economic crisis (worldwide) -- not to mention all the military crisis -- just when these technologies are being laid out. How often is there a story on the mainstream news regarding these tehcnologies and what the world community as well as our local communities think about these technologies.

and we keep cutting public education -- all these education wars -- meanwhile a whole class of undereducated kids just when we need to become more aware (NOT TO GO TO COLLEGE OR TO GET A JOB) but to live our lives intelligently and responsibly -- to help insure that some groups are not targeted and manipulated in such a way as to hurt the greater good -- just because they never obtained enough information to make a responsible decision!

We CAN do it! We can be FREE! (after all MLK, jr. was to the mountaintop and he saw it -- and he said we will make it there.) Remind yourself of that when you take off to the woods to confront the sinister forces that the other side of the coin is -- CREATING a world in OUR image and not that of those that must hurt and manipulate us into accepting theirs.

most of all -- have faith and empathy for your fellow man. One of the things I have learned while uncovering these kinds of manipulations within my own life is to not (or try not) to judge other people. Who knows what they have been thru (and continue to go thru). Many of us really are better than we may appear to each other right now. And, as for all those people out there spreading hope and light in these dark times -- God bless you!
We are the ones we've been waiting for.
Hopi Elders 2001.

to be a rock and still to roll . . .
change we can believe in is here -- The Ed Show
Love is the Way ~ Jesus of Nazareth
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Buddie
Senior Member
Username: buddie

Post Number: 4506
Registered: 3-2008
Posted on Tuesday, August 09, 2011 - 7:15 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

Song of Myself :-)
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Buddie
Senior Member
Username: buddie

Post Number: 4507
Registered: 3-2008
Posted on Tuesday, August 09, 2011 - 7:17 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

Or This..

1.The Extraterrestrial Hypothesis. Aliens who belong to a technologically advanced civilization from somewhere in outer space made contact with the US government (and others, perhaps) in 1947, or earlier. The aliens cut a deal, offering to trade their advanced technology for the right to experiment with the population (Corso, The Day After Roswell). Source of innumerable conspiracy theories and nightmare tales of CIA mind control, cattle mutilations, undergound labs, etc. Proponents: Timothy Good, David Icke, George C. Andrews (who carefully distinguishes between extraterrestrial friends and foes), and many others. This theory assumes that the aliens have an advanced interbreeding program (David Jacobs, The Threat), and that their aims are not at all benign but downright sinister.

2, The Benevolent ("Space Brothers") Hypothesis. Assumes various kinds of intervention, motivated by kind and helpful intent on the part of the aliens; or possibly as part of their program for boosting or initiating humanity to a more advanced level of conscousness. Most well-known example, Whitley Streiber´s "visitors," and the Billy Meier Pleiadian scenario. After much research and reticence, the late John Mack (Passport to the Cosmos) also adopted this view. Includes the earliest contactees such as George Adamski, whose tall blond Venusians came to warn humanity about immanent self-destruction, pollution of the environment, etc. Earliest modern prototype for this theory, the "Lords of the Flame" (also from Venus) in the theosophical scenario of Madame Blavatsky.

3, The Sumerian File. Includes all theories centrally based on the Annunaki scenario found in Sumerian clay tablets, the oldest written documents on earth. Main proponent, Zecharia Sitchin, who maintains that the Annunaki descended to earth, founded civilization, and instituted theocracy. He also claims that these aliens come from Nibiru, the outermost member of our Solar System, with an orbital period of 3600 years, but this claim has not (to my knowledge) been astronomically verified. Spinoffs: Lawrence Gardner, Anton Parks, and many others. (This category is unique in its reliance on ancient textual evidence. Compare to category 9.) The Annunaki are space masters rather than space brothers. The Sumerian myth says they created humanity by genetic boosting of an apelike native population, so that humans could serve as their slaves.

4, Biblical UFOlogy. Includes hybrid and crossover theories that develop category 2 specifically in the context of the Old and New Testaments. Draws heavily on Apocryphal writings, especially the Book of Enoch with its famous account of "the Watchers," believed to be fallen angles. Uses a straightforward and literal-minded equation between aliens and angels. Proposes that angels described in the Bible — such as those seen in the visions of Ezekiel, or the one who wrestled with Jacob at the Jabbok ford on the Jordan River, or the Angel Gabriel who announced the birth of Jesus to Mary — were ET entities who are assumed to have a benevolent attitude toward humanity, consistent with the fulfillment of "God's plan."

Some of the angels may be fallen, but the leading assumption here is that the angel/ETs are on the side of the Father God, and the Father God is working for humanity (not against it, as the Gnostic theory, category 9, asserts). Epitomized in the Raelian cult with emphasis on the genetic creation of humanity by god-like ETs.

This category reflects the deep religiosity of ET/UFO speculation, as well as its naivete and attraction to the divine parental image. In some rare instances, Biblical UFOlogists approach the views of category 9 and challenge the identity and motives of the Creator God: e.g., Christian O'Brien, The Genius of the Few, and A. D. Horne, Humanity´s Extraterrestrial Origins. These are both intelligent, sobering books.

5, The Mind Control Hypothesis. Largely developed by Jacques Vallee in a brilliant manner. He called the ET/UFO phenomenon "a spiritual control system." Equally so, John Keel (UFOs: Operation Trojan Horse) has explored this angle with sober and startling insight. Includes the influential writings of C. G. Jung. Also, Demonic Reality by Patrick Harpur. ETs are projections of imagination, or the collective unconscious, intrapsychic phantoms, psychic shapeshifters, etc. The most intellectually sophisticated category (apart from 9, which incorporates it), it assumes that the Phenomenon (as Keel calls it) is totally real, but not in the sense that it appears to be. It operates as a “inboard" control system, rather than a miraculous event or supernatural intervention.

6, New Age or Visionary theories. Found in numerous versions which tend to proliferate wildly. Materials employed to develop this thesis are largely drawn from channelled writings. Examples are The Prism of Lyra and The Only Planet of Choice. New Age theories of alien contact tend to present a mixed bag of grand, starry-eyed plans and divine intentions involving a diverse cast of non-human species, some benevolent and some otherwise.

7, Ancient Astronauts, the Von Daniken Hypothesis, which has spawned a wide range of spinoffs. Take away all the smoke and ladders and this is simply a "cargo cult" interpretation of alien contact. Although von Daniken steered clear of these explosive issues (Swiss neutrality?), the mystique of ancient astronauts attaches itself readily to the worst fringe element in modern thinking: i.e., crypto-fascism. We hear tales of Hitler escaping to South America in a saucer donated by his alien allies. Catastrophic theories of the Ice Ages and hollow-earth fantasias proliferate in this category. For a good critique, see Jocelyn Godwin, Arktos. Bear in mind that von Daniken´s artifactual and archeological evidence has been largely dismissed as fraudulent and fantastical. (We tend to assume that an advanced race would have advanced technology - but would it be that kind of technology, i.e., headphones and such gadgets?)

8. Shamanic – Indigenous – Otherworld. The most traditional of all nine categories because it draws upon world-wide folk-lore and mythology, for instance, the Aboriginal lore of Australia and the testimony of Zulu shaman, Credo Mutwa (who claims that the alien spirits are malevolent). Classic work: The Fairy Faith in Celtic Countries by E. A. Evans-Wentz, which inspired Jacques Vallee, plus Vallee´s own, Passage to Magonia. Includes the intentional production of living phantoms (tulpas) demonstrated in Tibetan Buddhism (Alexandria David-Neel, Magic and Mystery in Tibet), Kachinas in the magical rites of the American southwest (Frank Waters, The Book of the Hopi), and many reports from shamanic cultures, including ayahuascueros of the Amazon and urban DMT trippers. Carried to a level of high sophistication by the "Gnostic astronaut,," Terence McKenna in his speculations on the UFO-mushroom connection (The Archaic Revival).

9. ET/Archon theory, or the Gnostic theory of alien intrusion. Specific to JLL and the Gnostic material on Metahistory.org. To my knowledge, only Nigel Kerner (The Song of the Greys) is the only other author who equates modern Grey ETs with the Archons of Gnostic writings, but he does not develop this idea in depth, textually. Through Metahistory.org I do just that. The ET/Archon Navigator takes you to the relevant articles.

This theory relies on the most solid and complete textual evidence from antiquity: the Dead Sea Scrolls and the Nag Hammadi Codices. It assumes that Gnostic teachers in the Pagan Mystery Schools were accomplished shamans who used paranormal powers such as remote viewing to detect aliens, as well techniques of psychic self-defence, to resist and repel them. About one-fifth of the surviving Gnostic materials are concerned with the ET/Archons, their motives, methods, appearances, tactics, etc. Their most accomplished power is said to be HAL, "simulation, substitution," i.e., virtual reality. They are imposters allied with the false Creator God (the Demiurge), Jehovah, who is working against humanity.

Kerner assumes that Archons have deeply penetrated our genetic makeup, but Gnostic writings support the view that they have only duped us into believing this is so, whereas they are in reality incapable of reaching or breaching the genomic intelligence we embody. Their victory lies in make-believe, getting us to act out what they pretend to be doing to us. Their work through insinuation.

Gnostic cosmology is closely related to the modern Gaia theory of Lovelock and Margulis, for which it presents an ancient prototype. Gnostic writings explain the cosmic origin of the predatory ETs (both the fetal or embryonic and reptilian types), which no other theory can do. Our planet Gaia plays a key role in their presence in our minds and lives. The Archons are a spinoff of the intelligence of the divine being, Sophia, who is embodied in our planet, but they are not compatible with human intelligence, so they inhabit the solar system at large, apart from the earth - this is the Mystery teaching. (Gnostics taught that the earth does not properly belong to the planetary system, but is captured in it.) Archons introduce a deviant skew into human evolution. Our responsibility is to detect and correct it. In this way we align ourselves with Gaia, the planetary intelligence that initially produced the Archon species.

The Gnostic codices found in Egypt in 1945 warn explicitly that these predatory alien entities infiltrate our minds through spiritual belief systems. These systems, especially the Judeo-Christian-Islamic program of salvation, are not entirely of human origin, but arise in our minds due to non-human deviance. Salvationism is an ideological virus of extraterrestrial origin. Jehovah is a demented pseudo-diety who pretends to be our creator. Gnostics detected the presence of ETs in the same forms reported today. The Nag Hammadi texts contain firsthand accounts of alien abduction. But at a more profound level, the ancient seers who guarded the Mysteries also discerned the operations of the inhumane Archontic mind in the religious ideologies that are today tearing humanity apart at the seams.
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Second Wind
Senior Member
Username: second_wind

Post Number: 5682
Registered: 4-2007
Posted on Wednesday, August 10, 2011 - 4:31 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

Or this:

http://www.whale.to/b/cannon.html#_Toc526676864


The Hypothesis

Substantial evidence exists linking members of this country’s intelligence community (including the Central Intelligence Agency, the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency, and the Office of Naval Intelligence) with the esoteric technology of mind control.

For decades, “spy-chiatrists” working behind the scenes — on college campuses, in CIA-sponsored institutes, and (most heinously) in prisons, have experimented with the erasure of memory, hypnotic resistance to torture, truth serums, post-hypnotic suggestion, rapid induction of hypnosis, electronic stimulation of the brain, non-ionizing radiation, microwave induction of intracerebral “voices,” and a host of even more disturbing technologies.

Some of the projects exploring these areas were ARTICHOKE, BLUEBIRD, PANDORA, MKDELTA, MKSEARCH and the infamous MKULTRA.

I have read nearly every available book on these projects, as well as the relevant congressional testimony.[5]

I have also spent much time in university libraries researching relevant articles, contacting other researchers (who have graciously allowed me access to their files), and conducting interviews.

Moreover, I traveled to Washington, DC to review the files John Marks compiled when he wrote The Search for the Manchurian Candidate[6] These files include some 20,000 pages of CIA and Defense Department documents, interviews, scientific articles, letters, etc. The views presented here are the result of extensive and ongoing research.

As a result of this research, I have come to the following conclusions:


1. Although misleading (and occasionally perjured) testimony before Congress indicated that the CIA’s “brainwashing” efforts met with little success,[7] striking advances were, in fact, made in this field. As CIA veteran Miles Copeland once admitted to a reporter, “The congressional subcommittee which went into this sort of thing got only the barest glimpse.”[8]

2. Clandestine research into thought manipulation has not stopped, despite CIA protestations that it no longer sponsors such studies.

Victor Marchetti, 14-year veteran of the CIA and author of the renown expose, The CIA and the Cult of Intelligence, confirmed in a 1977 interview that the mind control research continues, and that CIA claims to the contrary are a “cover story.”[9]

3. The Central Intelligence Agency was not the only government agency involved in this research.[10] Indeed, many branches of our government took part in these studies — including NASA, the Atomic Energy Commission, as well as all branches of the Defense Department.

To these conclusions I would append the following — not as firmly-established historical fact, but as a working hypothesis and grounds for investigation:

4. The "UFO abduction" phenomenon might be a continuation of clandestine mind control operations.

I recognize the difficulties this thesis might present to those readers emotionally wedded to the extraterrestrial hypothesis, or to those whose political Weltanschauung disallows any such suspicions.

Still, the open-minded student of abductions should consider the possibilities. Certainly, we are not being narrow-minded if we ask researchers to exhaust all terrestrial explanations before looking heavenward.

Granted, this particular explanation may, at first, seem as bizarre as the phenomenon itself. But I invite the skeptical reader to examine the work of George Estabrooks, a seminal theorist on the use of hypnosis in warfare, and a veteran of Project MKULTRA.

Estabrooks once amused himself during a party by covertly hypnotizing two friends, who were led to believe that the Prime Minister of England had just arrived; Estabrooks’ victims spent an hour conversing with, and even serving drinks to, the esteemed visitor.[11]

For ufologists, this incident raises an inescapable question: If the Mesmeric arts can successfully evoke a non-existent Prime Minister, why can’t a representative from the Pleiades be similarly induced?

But there is much more to the present day technology of mind control than mere hypnosis — and many good reasons to suspect that UFO abduction accounts are an artifact of continuing brainwashing/behavior modification experiments.

Moreover, I intend to demonstrate that, by using UFO mythology as a cover story, the experimenters may have solved the major problem with the work conducted in the 1950s — “the disposal problem,” i.e., the question of “What do we do with the victims?”




----------------




Blue, thank you for that wonderful post! The more I read of your posts, the more respect and love I feel for you!

(Sorry if that embarrasses you, but I will not hold back what I feel.)




-------------

And this thing with the reporters, and now, Judge Judy, spouting gibberish.....it is TRULY strange.

I finally found this page, with a video of Judge Judy on "Good Morning America" after her incident. There is still no solid claim of a TIA, either in her case, or the others, but that is how it's being spun with HER.


Weirdness.

(Message edited by second_wind on August 10, 2011)
"In the end, only kindness matters."
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blue
Senior Member
Username: jennyblue

Post Number: 1078
Registered: 3-2007
Posted on Wednesday, August 10, 2011 - 11:00 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

buddie, I tend to go with the Archon/Gnostic theory as being the overiding #1 nemesis. It is the theory that, both fits my experience w/the visitors (as best I can tell if that's what they are . . . and the accounts of others from what I've read and Whitley's experiences, Dreamland interviews, Anne's interviews, remarks about contactees, etc. The visitors, as described by many, seem to effect the mind in the same way these Archons do. I do not think that the Archons are the Greys, however. I think that they have impersonated the Greys by having pulled their images from our genetic memories. They are like puppet masters.

I dont know if Archons are what people/folklore calls demons (there seem to be a lot of different opinions about what demons are) but if they are not, they are surely capable of pretending to be one. Archons also do not appear to thought forms which have grown to huge proportions within our collective un/conscious, but again wld be very capable of manipulating those thought forms as they are made of the kind of energy with which we think (if that makes any sense).


That is not to say that if one theory is true/real, the others are not . . . you did a great job, by the way, of presenting these.

having said the above -- Second Wind posted this:

Moreover, I intend to demonstrate that, by using UFO mythology as a cover story, the experimenters may have solved the major problem with the work conducted in the 1950s — “the disposal problem,” i.e., the question of “What do we do with the victims?”

I think there is a lot of truth to this. There is a very human element to all the nastiness that goes on. The secrecy and lack of discussion in these areas have allowed people's imagination to run wild (not necessarily a bad thing). And, as Anne has mentioned, just trying to solve the mystery has upped the brain capacity for many of us.

The Archons delight in intense emotion -- they are behind pedophilia at its root because they become addicted to the powerful emotions that are released in the process of the body/soul's loss of innocence. They are also better able to manipulate the victim after these kinds of experiences.

I think the Archons are behind some of the very bad decisions that people in power are making lately, both in their personal, and their professional lives. These individuals inability to "control their demon" (as they say) has led to all kinds of uncovering of bizarre behavior in very risky, self-exposing circumstances. It's almost as tho whatever is/has been controlling them is leaving the host to die a painful and humiliating death. As for those who have not yet been exposed, they are being driven mercilessly off the cliff in their unrelenting efforts to push a political/economic agenda that ensures that most people are not allowed to make things better for themselves.

Briefly said, the archons do not exist as physical beings. But by influencing physical beings, they get physical beings to do what they want them to do. They know that we create our own reality. And by controlling us, they are able to control our reality. The reason they are so afraid of us (as Whitley and others have reported) is because if once we understand this, they will be far less able to do any real damage to our world.

(Message edited by jennyblue on August 10, 2011)
We are the ones we've been waiting for.
Hopi Elders 2001.

to be a rock and still to roll . . .
change we can believe in is here -- The Ed Show
Love is the Way ~ Jesus of Nazareth
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blue
Senior Member
Username: jennyblue

Post Number: 1079
Registered: 3-2007
Posted on Wednesday, August 10, 2011 - 11:08 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

One more thing -- the whole psi factor correlation w/abductees, targets, etc. If what some students of esoteric knowledge say is true and we create our reality thru channeling energies through parts of our body like the pineal gland -- perhaps those individuals w/psi ability are able to do this more efficiently or more powerfully. Thus, being able to manipulate the reality of these people wld become a priority because I am postulating that when they influence reality -- it is not just their own reality that they influence . . . but all of ours -- more powerfully. Think Dune and the role Paul Atreides played in reshaping Dune. He was able with his being to influence an entire planet.

As Nick Begich mentioned in his C2C interview -- what if we all have the potential to do this?

(Message edited by jennyblue on August 10, 2011)
We are the ones we've been waiting for.
Hopi Elders 2001.

to be a rock and still to roll . . .
change we can believe in is here -- The Ed Show
Love is the Way ~ Jesus of Nazareth
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Second Wind
Senior Member
Username: second_wind

Post Number: 5686
Registered: 4-2007
Posted on Wednesday, August 10, 2011 - 5:48 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

I wish I had not missed Nick on C2C. Although I have heard many interviews with him on this topic, I still wish I had checked to find out that he was going to be on. He is such a great presenter of this information. And WOW, what a strange and interesting life he and his family have/have had!
"In the end, only kindness matters."
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Buddie
Senior Member
Username: buddie

Post Number: 4508
Registered: 3-2008
Posted on Wednesday, August 10, 2011 - 6:48 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

Thank You Blue but it was already
presented on line at metahistory.org
its a John Lash site that I keep coming
back to time and again..its the only
place I have found any in-depth reading on
archons as it is my belief I 'was' a victim
of something and my intuition almost
jumped out and screamed when I first read
about archons..lots of great reading at
that site imo..

Anyway SW I'm going to post this link I was
sent about Amway and Blackwater..
Its From 2007 .. you probably have already
seen it ..

A tiny bit about the Amway-Blackwater connection
Submitted by Cat Chew on Sun, 10/07/2007 - 6:17pm.
DeVos Family Network

http://www.talk2action.org/story/2006/10/20/171916/58

Dick DeVos was born into the Amway fortune in Grand Rapids. His role as international vice president and later president of Amway is due to his anointment by his father. He married Elizabeth ( Betsy ) Prince, daughter of Edgar and Elsa Prince, who generated a family fortune in Holland, just south of Grand Rapids. Both family influences are reflected in the candidate for Governor that we see today.

The Prince family is also deeply connected to extreme right and Republican Party politics. No one in the United States gave more money to James Dobson's Focus on the Family, its Michigan Family Forum affiliate, or its Washington, D.C. arm, the Family Research Council, than the late Edgar Prince. This network formed little known political action committees across the state and country that were more influential but less well known than Pat Robertson's Christian Coalition.

The brother of the would-be First Lady of Michigan, Erik Prince, also adopted the extreme right views of his parents but has used his wealth to start a military mercenary army. The company that it operates under, Blackwater USA, started in 1997 and quickly started getting contracts when George Bush became president. The are a major contractor in Iraq, hiring former Special Forces, Rangers and Navy SEALS to run security for U.S. ambassadors and unconventional warfare in the streets of Iraq's cities.

The Bush administration also hired them to go into New Orleans days after Katrina, armed with machine guns and authority to kill, using veterans of Iraq. "Blackwater mercenaries are some of the most feared professional killers in the world," according to Jeremy Scahill, a journalist who has traveled with them, and Daniela Crespo, who also covered them in New Orleans. Blackwater patrolled and ransacked homes in the Black residential areas of New Orleans. The mercenary outfit is being sued by families of four of their deceased employees in Iraq and by Columbian commandos who were allegedly underpaid.

Blackwater also owns two airlines that were used by the CIA to illegally transport kidnapped citizens of other countries and take them to secret prisons in eastern Europe, where they could be tortured and held incommunicado indefinitely. This "extraordinary rendition" program was condemned in Europe and the Congress for its gross violations of international law.

Since George Bush became President, Blackwater has reaped hundreds of millions of dollars in federal contracts, but is now a featured topic in the new documentary film Iraq for Sale: the War Profiteers.
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blue
Senior Member
Username: jennyblue

Post Number: 1080
Registered: 3-2007
Posted on Thursday, August 11, 2011 - 10:01 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

Isnt Amway a Moonie company? That wld explain a lot of the zombie-like behavior of many of these republican politicians. Its like they are all stuck in a groove w/pat answers to questions and if they dont like the question, they just substitute one of their well-rehearsed rants emphasizing talking points w/in their agenda. The vast majority seem under some kind of "alternate" control.

I'd like to speak to the intersection of intent/focus, different worlds/timelines, and covert operations of any kind:

it may be that something exists within the psyche of many worlds all of which are very connected. In this part of our journey, the portals between worlds abound putting us in a kind of fast lane (maybe hyperdrive wld be a better metaphor). In one world evil forces can exist but that world has a handle on it. There are people keeping the most outrageous events to a minimum -- people believe in other people in this world. But in others worlds, the power of sinister forces may be more intense -- more people have fallen victim to the litany of fear. Access to all these worlds is still pretty much open and people/souls are moving all over the place within the "matrix". But even if you are in the deepest, dark, thick of it you can move yourself all the way to a world in which it isnt so bad -- just by your attitude! Emphasize the positive -- keep yourself in the best possible world that you can access for the majority of your time.

I find myself feeling events that parallel a situation I am in quite often now. At first it was difficult to differentiate -- is it happening now? is it happening here? (people who are highly intuitive/psychic will understand . . .)

What I learned is that it may not/does not have to be happening in "my" world at all. I try to send energy to that world and view it as someplace i dont want to go. I try to learn and protect my world from such events and hope that other people also are seeking and finding focus in their best possible worlds.

When you meet someone and they confront you with a story beyond your believing and that may actually contradict your own reality -- be patient. When we reach our final destination -- people will be coming from different worlds/timelines. We will learn to accept it when someone says s/he came from a world where McCain was President or their world was invaded by aliens, or extremists nuked Chicago -- because s/he is speaking the truth.

Quantum physics theory also shld probably be part of the intersection.

(Message edited by jennyblue on August 11, 2011)
We are the ones we've been waiting for.
Hopi Elders 2001.

to be a rock and still to roll . . .
change we can believe in is here -- The Ed Show
Love is the Way ~ Jesus of Nazareth
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Second Wind
Senior Member
Username: second_wind

Post Number: 5690
Registered: 4-2007
Posted on Friday, August 12, 2011 - 3:56 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

Love you, Blue.

The most important part of your post above, FOR ME, is this:

"When you meet someone and they confront you with a story beyond your believing and that may actually contradict your own reality -- be patient."


VERY wise advice.

For myself, the additional challenge is to NOT take it personally even if those with opposing views actually attack me and attempt to discredit or shame me because of my views, or because I express my opinions or describe my experiences. The challenge for me, is to be patient, and to not be baited into distracting arguments.
"In the end, only kindness matters."
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Second Wind
Senior Member
Username: second_wind

Post Number: 5691
Registered: 4-2007
Posted on Friday, August 12, 2011 - 3:59 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

Buddie, your link does not work for me....at least, at this time. I tried it several times.

But because of you bringing it up, I did a search on the subject, and.....I don't remember hearing this before (but my memory has it's lapses, even though usually, it's almost photographic).

I've done some reading on the subject now, and WOW.

I cannot say I am surprised at the connections.

My Mother ALMOST got sucked into Amway.
"In the end, only kindness matters."
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Second Wind
Senior Member
Username: second_wind

Post Number: 5692
Registered: 4-2007
Posted on Friday, August 12, 2011 - 4:01 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

Another interesting C2C show tonight, touching on issues of mind control and manipulation.
"In the end, only kindness matters."