| Author | Message | ||
     chesserw Intermediate Member Username: chesserw Post Number: 168 Registered: 5-2010 |
Buddie: Not in so many words. During the time that the Roswell Incident happened, Dad had returned from the war and was working at the base raising money to buy the farm/ranch that I grew up on. Looking back there my mom and dad were both "salt of the earth", god fearing people. However they both had a streak in them for UFO's and the paranormal, which I believe was from dad being at the base at the time. Every book that they put down (about Edgar Cayce, T.Lobsang Ramatha and Fate Magazine), I would pick up and read. They also double dated with Glenn Dennis and his wife were dad would call square dances. About 15 years ago, when mom still lived in Roswell, my wife and I was watching a tape on the Incident. When the tape finished, I asked mom by chance if she would have known the nurse that Glenn talked about that was there during the autopsy. She said no, then quickly left the room. My wife and I looked at each other, and noted how odd my mom had acted when asked. What I find interesting is that if you'd asked any of the people that were involved to keep quiet or let it leak that it was a classified government project, this story would have died and we would have probably never heard about it. God give me the grace to accept the things that I cannot change. And grant unto me the power to change the things that I cannot accept. | ||
| Second Wind Senior Member Username: second_wind Post Number: 5381 Registered: 4-2007 |
Yeah....... thanks. "In the end, only kindness matters." | ||
| Buddie Senior Member Username: buddie Post Number: 4084 Registered: 3-2008 |
Thank you so much chess .. your parents even reading those magazines back then.. I wonder if we had access to magazines like that in Canada what my Mothers reaction would have been? The Earth Laughs In Flowers.. Ralph Waldo Emerson | ||
| mthood Intermediate Member Username: dspaulding Post Number: 132 Registered: 9-2010 |
Angels on the sideline, Puzzled and amused. Why did Father give these humans free will? Now they're all confused. Don't these talking monkeys know that Eden has enough to go around? Plenty in this holy garden, silly monkeys, Where there's one you're bound to divide it. Right in two. Angels on the sideline, Baffled and confused. Father blessed them all with reason. And this is what they choose. And this is what they choose... Monkey killing monkey killing monkey Over pieces of the ground. Silly monkeys give them thumbs, They forge a blade, And where there's one they're bound to divide it, Right in two. Right in two. Monkey killing monkey killing monkey. Over pieces of the ground. Silly monkeys give them thumbs. They make a club. And beat their brother, down. How they survive so misguided is a mystery. Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to live to light a heaven conscious of his fleeting time here. Cut it all right in two [x4] Fight over the clouds, over wind, over sky Fight over life, over blood, over prayer, overhead and light Fight over love, over sun, over another, Fight... Angels on the sideline again. Been soon long with patience and reason. Angels on the sideline again Wondering when this tug of war will end. Cut it all right in two [x3] RIGHT IN TWO! Right in two... Tool-Right in Two | ||
| allen Senior Member Username: eastsider01 Post Number: 2426 Registered: 4-2005 |
My daughter gets out of school at 3pm every day. She doesn't get to my car until about 3:15 though. It's because PE is her last class, and as a 7th grader she has to 'clean up'before making her presence felt. This past Friday they had an emergency response test at school, parents had to sign out for their children. Now Lindsey always has her cell phone in her backpack but she has NEVER used it at school. That's a taboo. So Friday we agreed that I would arrive at school a little late, around 3:20, to avoid the parking nightmare. I decided to watch a movie before picking her up. I had gotten a movie from Netflix a couple of days before"Hereafter" and thought it would be a good time to watch it. The last scene in the movie has the lead actor finally finding peace/love with another person. So the movie's last scene plays, and as I am turning off the bluray player I get a text message on my cell phone. It's from my daughter. She NEVER phones me during school hours! She asks if I can pick her up a little earlier. I answer that I can. I then turn my attention to the TV and see that the channel that came on when the bluray was tuned off has a movie playing. The scene on screen when I look up is a close up of the VERY SAME actor that was in the last scene of the rental movie I had just watched. Boom, Boom, Boom. Ain't life interesting? | ||
| bean Senior Member Username: tina Post Number: 1641 Registered: 12-2001 |
It's called synchronicity....stay in tune and it will pave the way! | ||
| allen Senior Member Username: eastsider01 Post Number: 2427 Registered: 4-2005 |
lol....pave the way? to where? | ||
| Second Wind Senior Member Username: second_wind Post Number: 5475 Registered: 4-2007 |
allen, I have been resisting watching this movie, and I am not sure why. I will make it a point to watch it on "on demand" within the next few days. Thank you for "paving the way"! "In the end, only kindness matters." | ||
| bean Senior Member Username: tina Post Number: 1642 Registered: 12-2001 |
Allen, to where ever it is you need to be...mentally, emotionally or physically....spiritually. Some times it isn't so much a "big wow"...just something that kinda gets your attention.... Remembering and keeping the ends of experience open, often leads to real eye openers. | ||
| allen Senior Member Username: eastsider01 Post Number: 2428 Registered: 4-2005 |
bean, I am of the opinion that we get 'wherever we need to be' regardless of our follies while we are here on earth. I believe that we are 'in the bonus round' and can make our experience that much richer with effort and focus. SW, I had shied away from it also, but I liked it for the most part. | ||
| bean Senior Member Username: tina Post Number: 1644 Registered: 12-2001 |
What is the "bonus round?"...and I agree experience gets richer with effort and focus.. | ||
| allen Senior Member Username: eastsider01 Post Number: 2430 Registered: 4-2005 |
bean, being alive in physical form. | ||
| Buddie Senior Member Username: buddie Post Number: 4209 Registered: 3-2008 |
Last Friday I saw a friend I had not seen in 4 years..she walked on the buss I have taken for the past 20 years..I was reading a small paper and she saw me..we caught up on things etc etc and have now run into each other 2 more times since..yes we planned a get together  The Earth Laughs In Flowers.. Ralph Waldo Emerson | ||
| bean Senior Member Username: tina Post Number: 1645 Registered: 12-2001 |
Allen....So when anyone is being alive in physical form at any time, are they in the bonus round? ..trying to understand here... Buddie....that is so fun when that happens! | ||
| allen Senior Member Username: eastsider01 Post Number: 2431 Registered: 4-2005 |
Generally speaking, my way of seeing it is this. Simply being alive in physical form is not enough to qualify for 'the bonus round'. An awareness of what being alive entails, the potential, the possibilities, the intricate way that all is connected, that creates the bonus round situation. In my eyes... Having felt this for so long but never having to put it into words is quite a challenge for me. | ||
| bean Senior Member Username: tina Post Number: 1646 Registered: 12-2001 |
Got it. Thank you!! I know what ya mean about trying to explain a personal concept...Sometimes I have to go far back to remember why I think what I think...how I came to think a certain thing....putting it together again....and then does it still hold true!!? ..never a dull moment...  | ||
| Second Wind Senior Member Username: second_wind Post Number: 5550 Registered: 4-2007 |
In another thread, we were discussing prayer. The conversation caused me to decide to share my experience of "prayer" following the death of my Buffy Kitty on Feb. 24. But first, some background. Buffy was one of many animals that was dumped out there where I lived, on the city/county line. He just appeared, in 2004, like so many others over the previous 20+ years I lived there. He lived under my mobile home for 2 years, because by that time, I did not have the money to run an ad in the paper to find someone to adopt him, nor did I have the money to pay the local no-kill shelter to take him in. I had been afraid (I don't know why) to bring him into the house to live, with the 5 other cats. So, I did the best I could. I fed him and cared for him and spent time outside with him. I built him a shelter in the winter with a heated bed. I grew to love him so much. He was such a grateful kitty! When I would go outside back then to feed him or be with him, all I had to do was call him, and he would come running, and he would literally JUMP into my arms and hug me around my neck. In 2006, when he was "lost", I posted about it here on the board. He had been scared into hiding by some roaming dogs......It was a horrible and frightening day. A poster, "Thomas", made the suggestion that I play music for him, to get him to come out from his hiding place. So, I instinctively chose a song...and began blasting it on the stereo, with the windows open...... Within the time frame of the second playing of the song, Buffy came out of hiding. The song became "our song"......in my mind.....a song that spoke to our relationship. I made the decision after that day to bring him into my home and family of 5 other cats. During that same time, my life had changed dramatically, and I knew I would be moving away from the remote, country setting I lived in at that time. Flash forward to this year.... Buffy had been becoming increasingly ill. I knew, for the past couple of years...definitely the last year, that his days were numbered. The time came......... When I brought him home from the final visit to the vet on Feb. 24th..... .....I picked a spot in my yard for his body, and dug his grave. It was in an area of the lawn in my back yard, so I took off the top layer with turf, and set it aside. I wanted to be able to put it back, so that the grass would grow back, and nobody would know that he was there. I don't know why I felt that way..... I sat on the grass next to the open grave, with his still-warm little body in a blanket in my lap, and tried to sing "our song" to him, but of course, I was sobbing so much that the song tune was unrecognizable. But the words were the main thing.....and even though I know I did not remember all the words during those distraught moments, I did the best I could, as a tribute to him. The song: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tjcAXCaEMWs I know you're out there somewhere Somewhere, somewhere I know I'll find you somehow Somehow, somehow And somehow I'll return again to you The mist is lifting slowly I can see the way ahead And I've left behind the empty streets That once inspired my life And the strength of the emotion Is like thunder in the air 'Cause the promise that we made each other Haunts me to the end I know you're out there somewhere Somewhere, somewhere I know you're out there somewhere Somewhere you can hear my voice I know I'll find you somehow Somehow, somehow I know I'll find you somehow And somehow I'll return again to you The secret of your beauty And the mystery of your soul I've been searching for in everyone I meet And the times I've been mistaken It's impossible to say And the grass is growing Underneath our feet I know you're out there somewhere Somewhere, somewhere I know you're out there somewhere Somewhere you can hear my voice I know I'll find you somehow Somehow, somehow I know I'll find you somehow And somehow I'll return again to you You see I know you're out there somewhere O yes I know you're out there somewhere You see I know I'll find you somehow O yes I know I'll find you somehow the words that I remember From my childhood still are true That there's none so blind As those who will not see And to those who lack the courage And say it's dangerous to try Well they just don't know That love eternal will not be denied I know you're out there somewhere Somewhere, somewhere I know you're out there somewhere Somewhere you can hear my voice I know I'll find you somehow Somehow, somehow I know I'll find you somehow And somehow I'll return again to you Yes I know it's going to happen I can feel you getting near And soon we'll be returning To the fountain of our youth And if you wake up wondering In the darkness I'll be there My arms will close around you And protect you with the truth I know you're out there somewhere Somewhere, somewhere I know you're out there somewhere Somewhere you can hear my voice I know I'll find you somehow Somehow, somehow I know I'll find you somehow And somehow I'll return again to you Both back then in 2006, when he was temporarily lost), and this year, when I lost physical presence, the song was and is divinely? perfect. In both situations, each and every single line was so appropriate to how our paths came together, how our relationship developed and grew, how I felt about him, and how my life (and his life) was changing for the better from that point forward. Anyway, back to his burial.... After I sang the song, I gave thanks to God/the Universe/Buffy's spirit, for having brought Buffy to me, and for the joy he brought to my life over the past 7 years (he lived under my mobile home for 2 years before I brought him inside in 2006). I asked Buffy's spirit to please come and visit me, if he could. Anyway, after holding his sweet body, singing our song to him, and then burying him, I carefully placed the plug of turf over top, and then got the water hose to water it in. So, as I was standing there watering in the grass and crying my eyes out, suddenly, something tried to land on my shoulder. It was a Tiger Swallowtail butterfly!!!! This is my absolute favorite butterfly!!! Now, I was distraught, and exhausted from having been up all night with Buffy, waiting for the vet's office to open that morning. I was so upset and out-of-it, that I instinctively jumped and tried to shoo away "the bug"......but it fluttered just a bit in front of my eyes, and then tried AGAIN to land on my head or shoulder. Still, for some inexplicable reason, I ducked again!!!! (  ) So, it just, again, fluttered in small dancy circles in front of me, at eye level, directly over the grave, for about 15 or twenty seconds. I just stood there sobbing with both grief and JOY, and was babbling my thanks for such an amazing "sign"!!!! I was apologizing for flinching and ducking and trying to shoo it away. I was thanking it for coming to me. Then, it gently began to flutter away, across the yard, and over the opposite fence, and was gone. Of course, I cannot prove, or know for certain, that this was not just a coincidence. But I bet you all know what I FEEL AND BELIEVE about it!!!  It felt like a miracle! It felt like an answer to prayer! It was one of the peak experiences of my life!!!! http://www.likeacat.com/Butterfly-Symbolism_ep_55-1.html http://lizzieslogic.blogspot.com/2010/07/what-is-wednesday_14.html ------------------ One more time.....To "Thomas", wherever and whoever you are.......you made a huge difference in my life, and the life of one Buffy Kitty. You are loved! "In the end, only kindness matters." | ||
| Mama Shine Senior Member Username: mama_shine Post Number: 14278 Registered: 9-2006 |
SW, RIP dear Buffy...weird about the Swallowtail Butterfly and me posting about how they visit me. Yes, I miss Thomas as well. I hate to bring up sad stuff but didn't you post long time ago about having a doggie name Rocky? Did you have suspicions about his loss or something...I'm posting impromptu and rambling. I am thinking about my old kitty Rachi (Rachmaninoff) and that thought led me to think you had a Rocky. Before I go on in this line of thinking will you please confirm that you had a Rocky Dog cause if I'm just drifting into 'fanciful thinking' its best I nip it in the bud before I step into it further with my paranoia and vivid imagination. I must create a system, or be enslaved by another man's. ~William Blake | ||
| bean Senior Member Username: tina Post Number: 1684 Registered: 12-2001 |
AH Sw....thank you for sharing your beautiful story. Isn't it weird that when something like the sign from the butterfly happens...you KNOW it is a special gift, you can FEEL it in you whole body...it is a recognition from creation....and then...in time you question the validity of that special moment. I have done that many times. Yours is a lovely story. I'm sooo glad you believe it. I'm really sorry you lost your Buffy Kitty. bean | ||
| bean Senior Member Username: tina Post Number: 1685 Registered: 12-2001 |
..... and by the way SW, for the last two days, a butterfly just like the one in your link, has been flying around my backyard! | ||
| Second Wind Senior Member Username: second_wind Post Number: 5553 Registered: 4-2007 |
Thank you, Mama and Bean! Mama, yes, I have posted quite a few times about Rocky. He passed away on Nov. 4th, 2006, Just over a week after I closed on the purchase of this house I live in. And yes, your memory is correct that I believed (knew) he was being tortured. He was sick the entire time I had him, had horrible seizures, lost most of his hair. He was also nearly killed when someone dropped off a fighting rooster on my property, and it jumped on him and gored him with it's spurs. The wounds came within a smidgen of puncturing his lung. Anyway...... I'm down to 4 cats now. The oldest is 11, and the other three are 10. As for the butterfly, I thought it seemed way to early, and too cold, for butterflies to be out in February. Strangely, I have not seen another one since then, but, again, it's usually later in the summer when the larger butterflies start showing up in the yard. I have been seeing small white ones, and teeny tiny blue-ish ones. Lots of them! The blue ones chase each other in circles. Love to watch them! (Message edited by second_wind on June 07, 2011) "In the end, only kindness matters." | ||
| Paul Advanced Member Username: bingo Post Number: 272 Registered: 8-2009 |
Hi SW, Thanks for sharing your story of Buffy Kitty and the Butterfly - and the song you two shared, so poignant, I couldn't help singing it as I read the lyrics - what a great song - for a great kitty. Who would've guessed that Buffy Kitty was such a "cosmic rocker"? Peace to all."There was a farmer had a dog..." - Everybody ... sing along now ... | ||
| RushingStar Senior Member Username: amanda_rushingstar Post Number: 512 Registered: 2-2010 |
Beautiful story, SW. Got me all teary eyed this morning. Buffy was a lucky kitty! I am so glad that y'all had each other! I love the swallowtail! We have a sassafras tree with the cute little swallowtail caterpillars. Not the tiger swallowtail, tho. | ||
| animalspirits Senior Member Username: animalspiritstalstarcom Post Number: 10094 Registered: 10-2006 |
RS, The Spicebush Caterpillar eats Sassafras leaves. Understand that all things are sacred--yet nothing is sacred. ~Yotee Coyote Blog: http://animalspirits--withoutfear.blogspot.com | ||
| RushingStar Senior Member Username: amanda_rushingstar Post Number: 513 Registered: 2-2010 |
AS, Yes they do. And they are just about the cutest little caterpillar I have ever seen! I love them to pieces! The spicebush swallowtail flutterby is very beautiful, too. http://www.google.com/search?q=spicebush+caterpillar+photo&hl=en&rls=com.microso ft:en-US&prmd=ivns&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=NW7uTaLuCqfq0gGVxczeAw&ved =0CBoQsAQ | ||
| Mama Shine Senior Member Username: mama_shine Post Number: 14280 Registered: 9-2006 |
SW, Thanks for responding about your Rocky. What had happened was the other night I was picking up on a feeling about my kitties, Minnie and Howling Owlie that just disappeared before I joined UC... had bad feelings about hunches concerning their disappearance.. It's just that your Rocky seemed to come to my mind. Makes no sense really...you may understand.  I must create a system, or be enslaved by another man's. ~William Blake | ||
| Second Wind Senior Member Username: second_wind Post Number: 5554 Registered: 4-2007 |
I understand, Mama. You were reading and posting back when I first joined, and when I posted about Rocky. Have you ever posted about those kitties that disappeared? ---------- Paul, and Rushing Star, thank you both for your sweet comments, and for reading my story about Buffy! It felt good to tell about it here, where people who love animals as much as I do, would understand.  "In the end, only kindness matters." | ||
| Second Wind Senior Member Username: second_wind Post Number: 5557 Registered: 4-2007 |
I saw that, buddie.  You can post it here, or you can post it to the "Witness" thread, or you can post it to the "Getting up to Speed on Mind Control" thread....or you can send me a PM. I'm interested to know what you wanted to send me. Please PM me if you changed your mind about posting it. "In the end, only kindness matters." | ||
| Second Wind Senior Member Username: second_wind Post Number: 5558 Registered: 4-2007 |
Also, there is a thread in the "Whistleblowers" section, called "The MK Utra Question". Any number of places that it could be posted. Or, like I said....send me a PM. "In the end, only kindness matters." | ||
| Buddie Senior Member Username: buddie Post Number: 4335 Registered: 3-2008 |
Okay http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=67flP6YePgs The Earth Laughs In Flowers.. Ralph Waldo Emerson | ||
| Buddie Senior Member Username: buddie Post Number: 4336 Registered: 3-2008 |
http://www.cointelprotoday.org/ The Earth Laughs In Flowers.. Ralph Waldo Emerson | ||
| Buddie Senior Member Username: buddie Post Number: 4337 Registered: 3-2008 |
I did not read this one.. tell me to delete it if need be http://blogs.alternet.org:80/speakeasy/2011/06/03/us-government-experiments-on-a mericans—lsd-and-mkultra/ The Earth Laughs In Flowers.. Ralph Waldo Emerson | ||
| Second Wind Senior Member Username: second_wind Post Number: 5563 Registered: 4-2007 |
"Many types of experiments have been performed including the deliberate infection of people with deadly or debilitating diseases, exposure of people to biological and chemical weapons, human radiation experiments, injection of people with toxic and radioactive chemicals, surgical experiments, interrogation/torture experiments, tests involving mind-altering substances, and a wide variety of others. Many of these tests were performed on children and mentally disabled individuals. In many of the studies, a large portion of the subjects were poor racial minorities or prisoners. Often, subjects were sick or disabled people, whose doctors told them that they were receiving "medical treatment", but instead were used as the subjects of harmful and deadly experiments. Many of these experiments were funded by the United States government, especially the Central Intelligence Agency, United States military and federal or military corporations. The human research programs were usually highly secretive, and in many cases information about them were not released until many years after the studies had been performed.” "Government experimenters who deliberately infect an uninformed, involuntary subject of their experiment with syphilis are inflicting grievous bodily harm short of death. They are also acting with reckless indifference to an unjustifiably high risk to human life, which may eventually result in death. They meet both these definitions of malice aforethought. Therefore, when death does occur as the result of the syphilis infection, the government scientists who produced the death are guilty of murder! The same is true for a great many of the other government experiments on involuntary subjects over the past 110 years, and the same is true for the highly advanced electronic technology being carried out on hundreds of involuntary subjects today. None of the evil government experimenters who committed countless murders over the past 110 years could be prosecuted for their crimes. Neither can any of the present government experimenters be prosecuted because the evidence needed to prove their guilt is shrouded behind the impenetrable government walls of secrecy. These government-funded criminals have been getting away with murder for 110 years. They are still doing so today. The victims of non-consensual government experimentation cannot go to court to obtain a remedy. If they die, their heirs have no civil remedy available. Government secrecy barriers prevent them from accessing the evidence necessary to prove responsibility for harm. The evidence they need is classified and thus cannot be accessed through FOIA requests nor through discovery procedures during litigation. If victims of non-consensual government experimentation or the heirs attempt to bring a legal action against government officials who are believed to be responsible for the for severe harm or death produced by nonconsensual experimentation, the government has the power to tell the court that the case must be dismissed because litigation of it will result in disclosure of “state secrets.” Courts will then dismiss the case, relying only on this statement by government and without any need by government to prove to the court the truth of the assertion that litigation will disclose “state secrets.” The “state secret” that the government does not want disclosed is the murder by government experimenters of involuntary subjects of their experiments. It is thus easily possible for government scientists to get away with murder. Our government has given them a license to kill as well as to inflict prolonged physical torture upon anyone that they choose to be an involuntary subject of their experiments." Thank you for posting these articles. I mean that. How did you come by them? Honestly???? I have not finished the second one....... It's a lot to digest. I guess probably only someone who has been through this crap, has sufficient interest to actually read it all. What about you, buddie? "In the end, only kindness matters." | ||
| Buddie Senior Member Username: buddie Post Number: 4340 Registered: 3-2008 |
I can't let myself get too involved with all of this.. So I don't read many links.. I have followed up with a few books..I think we spoke about them.. my last one ..that I have not finished Ooooo for 2 years now is The Franklin Scandal.. Abuse is Abuse but I never knew about anything on these scales.. until I came here.. Personally it bothers me Way More than being visited by other out there entities because at least for me once it stops I don't bother with it .. unless something happens to remind me of their feeling when they're around.. Anyway it came to me from someone who used to be in here and mentioned Perhaps you may be interested.. I was not sure if I should post from someone else and since I didn't open the 2nd one.. I warned them it dam well better be of interest to you.. Thats why I deleted my post Anyway if you feel its Quality I can post them when they send me stuff like that The Earth Laughs In Flowers.. Ralph Waldo Emerson | ||
| Second Wind Senior Member Username: second_wind Post Number: 5567 Registered: 4-2007 |
Buddie, any time you have info like that, please do post it. The only thing I would say (which is a slight revision of what I said in my post above) is that this particular thread is not the best place to post this type of info.....unless your intention is to share the info only with me. If that is your goal, then I would say to send the link to me in a PM. But if your intent is to share the info with ANYONE on the board who might be interested in the topics, then I would say it's better to post it to one of the MC threads. As for whether I feel any info is "quality", well, I can't know that until I see it. Just because someone sends you (or posts themselves) one article or source that is "quality", doesn't mean the next one is. Each piece of info has to be evaluated on it's own, and the reader must use their own experience, and prior knowledge/education, to determine if the info has merit, and to what degree. So, if you think it has value, then pass it on, and let the readers evaluate for themselves. A final thought is that, just out of a sense of responsibility, it would be a good idea for you to open ANY link you plan to post or send to someone else, even if you choose not to actually read the info at the link. I know that you wouldn't want to send or post a link that might have a virus or trojan, and you won't know if you haven't opened it. Thanks for posting the links that you did! "In the end, only kindness matters." | ||
| allen Senior Member Username: eastsider01 Post Number: 2476 Registered: 4-2005 |
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=11&ved=0CE0QtwIwCg&url=http%3A%2F%2 Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DdvYYYlgVAao&ei=kKn3TY-QL6jViALVwbj9DA&usg=AFQjCNG vq0WFP2ssiOHCddPQ2n0W57iNqQ This is a very good explanation of what's happening with quantum physics. | ||
| Buddie Senior Member Username: buddie Post Number: 4343 Registered: 3-2008 |
SW.. don't be worried about a virus post from me Ever.. Next time I'll send it to you by a PM and you post it where it should be that feels better with me and Your very welcome The Earth Laughs In Flowers.. Ralph Waldo Emerson | ||
| Roxanne New member Username: roxie Post Number: 1 Registered: 6-2011 |
Okay, SW, I'm going to post this in your thread. I thank you for relating your experiences concerning your family and the weirdness with them. If you had never posted about your family, I would have never made the connection between your "weirdness" and mine. In fact, I have a feeling that if I ever relate my story to anyone else they would not believe me and call me paranoid. (Well they would be right about the paranoia.) This pertains to the reason I haven't posted for so long. My life sort of took a nosedive with so much loss, grief and confusion that I just could not think straight. Now that my life has sort of settled down for now, although broken, I was trying to figure out how I got to this point in my life. I have been trying to understand why certain family members, who were supposed to be so concerned about my (well actually my husband's) welfare, could suddenly abandon us (him). Since my son and I have suffered the fall-out of this I tend to refer to the whole mess as "ours". I'm not sure if my son and I were the "intended" victims in all this. Who knows? I don't know if you all remember me posting about my "weird" mother-in-law (the Puppet Master) who tried to get me and her own daughter to become "escorts" for her "escort business" and how she would disappear for hours on end with first her teenaged daughter, then her daughter's child, without any explanation for where they had been or what they had been doing. (Which is one reason I put my foot down and NEVER allowed my son to go anywhere with her alone, which initiated the whole limited contact with her.) And the fact that my husband (who I will refer to as M) has been in a long drawn out lawsuit with his brothers. We have had extremely limited contact with M's mother for about 21 years now, yet she seemed to always know what went on in our lives and took every opportunity to sabatoge or derail anything we planned, no matter how small or completely unrelated to her it was (or seemed to me). Hope ya'll aren't yawning yet! We have these 2 family members in our lives that we had always trusted and confided in. These are M's uncle (who I will refer to as U) who happens to be M's mother's brother, and U's wife (who I will refer to as A). Now U has always "seemed" to be "at odds" with his sister (the Puppet Master) and according to U & A they had limited contact with her as well. We loved and adored these people. They were more like grandparents to my son. We enjoyed their company (at least initially) and spent a lot of time with each other. Now, suddenly they have abandoned us and I've spent the last several months (nearly a year) trying to figure out what went wrong. Then it hit me. I went back in my memory, year by year, and suddenly realized what a damn fool I (and M) have been. These people showed up in our lives almost immediately after we stopped contact with the Puppet Master, 21 years ago. Thinking back on it, they always showed up on important occasions, uninvited, unexpected and toward the end unwelcomed. It never once crossed my mind that these people were feeding information to the Puppet Master. However, thinking back on it I realize that during the lawsuit, when their visits became increasingly and irritatingly frequent, somehow crucial information relating to our strategy would be suddenly addressed in correspondences sent from their attorney to ours. I swear, I used to think or house was bugged. (Maybe it was.) Just too many weird coincidences that probably are not coincidences, at all. Why, oh why, do these people live and breathe every breath to destroy my life? What could I have possibly done to deserve their wrath? You know, years ago, I really thought that I either had something in my possession that I didn't know was valuable that was the source of the constant pilferring of my possessions. My house would be entered and things would be moved and some things missing. Nothing really interesting nor expensive, but they were "mine". I didn't really think that these people (family) were responsible for a while, until the Puppet Master actually wore my "missing" jewelry or clothing and even had the gall to "display" some of my items in her home. Questioned about it she would swear she had either bought the item(s), or someone had given it to her or that she had had it for years. I also used to wonder if maybe there was some secret, that they thought I had on them and that is/was why they would go to such lengths to slander me. You know, trying to make me appear crazy or something, just in case I ever revealed their "secret". I have no such secret that I am aware of. All the crazy things that the Puppet Master and her minions have done is common knowledge among her circle. They seem to have absolutely no shame for the things they have done. I was so stupid to trust U and A. It's interesting that U came to M and told him that he would help get this lawsuit settled. It appeared that he did, initially. But it was too little, too late. Because of all the attorney's fees (3 different attorneys) and the lien that the "family" put on our property, and M's two hospital stays and expenses, we lost everything. We lost a home and 40 acres and have ended up living in a little town in a rented house. Everything we had worked for for over 30 years is gone. And where are U & A? Once they found out that we were unable to continue living in our old home, they actually got mad and have all but disappeared from our lives. (For which I am now thankfull.) But, why would they get mad at us? They certainly never offered financial assistance, which we would not ask for. Neither did they extend to us one of their rental homes, which we did ask about. Which, in itself is odd, considering how they seemed to nose around in our lives, constantly. Except for the odd phone calls, in which they still seem to know what we do and where we go and what we purchase, we don't hear from them. Another odd thing they said in the last conversation M had with them, was how their son "drives through (our little town) all the time." It's odd because one doesn't drive "through" our town, one drives "to" our town. It's a dead end. One way in and the same way out. And this son lives and works 2 hours away. If you knew this town, you would know that there is absolutely nothing here for anyone to come to. There's not even a gas station here. Maybe they were just sort of letting us know that they've got their eye on us. We were actually happy about this little town being so far off the beaten path for the very reason that this family has stalked us since the beginning. Will it ever end? What could I or my husband possibly have or know that these people would seek to destroy our lives over? Thank you, again, SW for this thread. It has helped me see that I am not crazy. That there really are humans out there that really do enjoy some sort of sick pleasure in destroying other people's lives. My question, redundant as is may be, is, why? Well I certainly learned a lesson in an unexpected place. I will never trust these people again, and will probably be hyper-cautious in trusting anyone else. It makes me wonder, now, about all those flashes of "psychic" insight that I thought "I" had, were somehow not mine at all, in relation to this family. Does that make sense? Maybe I was "supposed" to "think" what I "thought". I'll touch more on that later if anyone is interested. This post has gotten too long as it is. ******************************************************************************** *********************** I had originally typed this in my Word Pad while I was waiting for my account to be activated. Just when I was ready to log in and post this, my Word Pad had somehow been disabled. Found out that my computer suddenly got a virus or malware, which fortunately, my son fixed. How's that for freaky? Thanks for reading, Roxie | ||
| Second Wind Senior Member Username: second_wind Post Number: 5607 Registered: 4-2007 |
Roxie, I have really been hesitant to respond to your post, for a number of reasons. I don't remember you posting before about the whole "escort business" thing. But, my memory is by no means perfect. I do, however, know that I have posted about my own experiences with the same subject. Like at many other times, when I have read people's descriptions of these types of things (all of it, not just the "escort" part, but the whole range of MC experiences), I find myself thinking, "Have these people been reading my diaries?" I am at a place right now that I am just not up to posting very much at all. Posting - or not posting - kind of comes in cycles for me, anyway. Sometimes, it's directly related to how I am feeling physically, and sometimes it's directly related to whatever is going on in my life. But I have really been in a "don't feel like posting" mood for quite a while now. I hope things get better for you. I did read all of your post (including the one on the Witness thread). You are on my prayer list! "In the end, only kindness matters." | ||
| Roxanne New member Username: roxie Post Number: 4 Registered: 6-2011 |
Thanks for responding, SW. I know what you mean about not feeling like posting. I guess my lack of posting is what caused me to have to re-register here, or I had forgotten my password. The "escort business" I referred to in my post under the Witness Thread on 8-20-09. My mil called it a "hostess business". At the time of this conversation I was 26 and married to my mil's SON! My sil was 21 and recently married, as well. Initially the conversation started with mil and her "friend", another woman, telling me and sil that they had a business proposition for us. The said they were starting up a "hostess business" and were looking for pretty young women to be "hostesses". It just happened that a few months before this conversation, I and another girl in my office were asked to be "Coffee Hostesses" at this Legal Secretary convention. We provided fresh coffee and disposable cups and such and cleaned up afterwards, so I assumed that that was what they were referring to. So I asked if we would be providing coffee or brochures or something. They laughed and said, no, that he would be simply "joining" these out-of-town men, at these conventions, to dinner and drinks. So, I, still not quite understanding (this was my husband's MOTHER and she was offering this opportunity to me and her OWN DAUGHTER) asked her to clarify again, exactly what we would be doing. Again she and her friend told me that we would just be "escorting" these men to dinner and drinks. That's when it hit me. My husband and I had lived in Florence, SC for a brief period of time, when I was 21. I noticed there were always large ads in the local papers for "Escort Services", as well as ads in the yellow pages. I had no idea what an "Escort Service" was. My husband explained it to me. (Hey, I grew up in a small town in the southern end of the Bible Belt. Things like this were just not the topic of conversation. I was woefully ignorant!) Anyway, what she was proposing to me and her daughter was for us to become my mil's and her friend's employees as escorts. I just told her I would have to think about it (NOT that I was thinking about being an escort, rather just trying to figure out whether or not I was in the middle of some strange dream) and I walked away and went straight to my husband and related the entire event. His only comment was, "It doesn't surprise me." It's just disgusting to me that this woman had the audacity to attempt to get me and her own daughter involved in this. I don't know if mil or her friend ever proceeded any further with their plans, but shortly after my fil died, mil moved quite suddenly to Florida and I have never gotten a straight answer from her about where she works or what she does. I don't really care as long as she leaves me alone, but it has always worried me that her daughter's own two daughters spend an awful lot of time in Florida with mil. One of those daughters has issues and had been in drug rehab which is ironic because this same girl was in college at the time studying psychology in order to work as a drug rehabilitation counselor. The other daughter is just strange. Won't say a word to anyone other than her sister, mother or grandmother (mil). My son calls her "creepy". And something else strange about this woman is that she has always tried to "schmooze" with any man that has any political affiliation. At one time, she was hell-bent on getting a job in Washington, DC to work with certain politicians. Fortunately, for the sake of our country, she was never hired, at least in DC. It's sad. I can't imagine what mil might have done or is still doing to these girls. I have no proof, but I have thought, for quite sometime now, that she is involved in child pornography. Hell she might even be involved in human trafficking. I'm so glad I never allowed my son to be around her. You take care, SW. I just wanted to let you know how much this thread has helped me. It's one thing to "suspect" abhorant behaviour in people in our lives, but it's another to see that these suspicions may be well founded in fact. | ||
| Second Wind Senior Member Username: second_wind Post Number: 5625 Registered: 4-2007 |
Roxie, have you read my posts in the archives of the Witness thread, about my experiences that are so similar to yours, re: the whole "escort/hostess" thing? "In the end, only kindness matters." | ||
| Roxanne New member Username: roxie Post Number: 7 Registered: 6-2011 |
SW, I haven't seen a post by you about the escort thing. Do you remember the year and date? I am glad that you understand what I'm talking about. The few people I've confided in about this think I'm making this stuff up or that I'm crazy or something. I just quit talking about it to anyone. I was talking with my ex-brother-in-law (this same sil's ex-husband) and he has told me even more bizarre things about this woman (mil). He said the same thing I did in that people just can't believe this stuff. One incident he told me about was how when my fil had been diagnosed with cancer, that she (mil) was talking to him (ex-bil) and told him how "God had blessed" her and her boyfriend by giving her husband and her boyfriend's wife terminal cancer so that she and her boyfriend could "be together". (mil and her boyfriend were still married to their respective spouses at the time!) She has no shame or respect for herself or her children. That's when ex-bil said he knew she was crazy and dangerous and he cut himself off from her as much as he could while still married to sil. He tried to put his foot down as far as not allowing his 2 daughters around her, but his wife (sil) was, and still is, still under mil's spell. This was one of the reasons he said caused their divorce. It's interesting that this same ex-bil's father was, at one time, in politics. Mil was hell-bent on getting her daughter to marry this man's son. This man ended up divorcing his wife and for some reason mil was certain that she would become the next Mrs. "politician". He ended up marrying a woman much younger and much more beautiful that my "toad" mil, at which time she decided that her daughter shouldn't be married to ex-bil, and made it her life's mission to destroy their marriage, which she did, quite successfully. I don't know if she is involved in any MC stuff, but she certainly has a hold over her children, the likes of which you may have never seen, and anyone not abiding by her strange rules, are targets for her to seek out and destroy, like my husband and me. The thing is, she pitifully stupid, but people seem to believe anything she says. I don't know, maybe she is exactly the kind of person that the "powers that be" look to recruit. She scares me. I don't know what she, or whoever she's in cahoots with are capable of. I used to literally get the shakes around her, which got so bad that I could tell when she was simply in the area. I would start shaking, for no reason and would even tell my husband that his mother was in the area, and sure enough, before the day was out she would show up. It's like I had a built-in radar. But, what can I do? So far I've been trying my best to avoid her, but then she sends in the flying monkeys to spy and report back to her. But to what end? What is so damn interesting about me and my family that causes her to "seek out and destroy"? I guess I'll never really know. | ||
| Roxanne New member Username: roxie Post Number: 8 Registered: 6-2011 |
Just a thought, is it possible that people like my mil, if they are involved in some nefarious activity, other than just personal revenge for whatever reason, chip away at us to make us more vulnerable in some twisted effort to get us to "run" to them for some sort of support, in which they then, at least in their own or group mind(s), puts us at a disadvantage and makes us more compliant to their wants? It's just so twisted. Like with your sister, SW, constantly calling you and begging (or maybe demanding) information. And what, exactly, are they going to do with any information they get? It's just so frustrating trying to figure all this out. It worries me that my husband may still be under her spell, even though, to my knowledge, he hasn't spoken to her in a while. Maybe he is unwittingly or not, feeding her information. But, what is so ridiculous is: what could possibly be so interesting about or daily activities? | ||
| Second Wind Senior Member Username: second_wind Post Number: 5629 Registered: 4-2007 |
http://www.unknowncountry.com/cgi-bin/board/show.cgi?tpc=58&post=444960#POST4449 60 Roxie that link above is the second post I had made here on the board about the "escort" thing. I can't find the original one right now. The incident I describe is one of two memories I have of finding myself in a similar situation. The second one was many years later, in a different town, where I found myself in an apartment with 3 other women, who I knew were hookers, or one was the "madam". It was another instance when I was "invited" to make some really good extra money, but I declined. (At least, my memory is that I declined.) However, I do NOT remember how I ended up at this place, who took me there, and I don't remember leaving. I didn't even remember the incident until years later, when I was doing intensive journalling work in therapy. "In the end, only kindness matters." | ||
| Second Wind Senior Member Username: second_wind Post Number: 5630 Registered: 4-2007 |
"Just a thought, is it possible that people like my mil, if they are involved in some nefarious activity, other than just personal revenge for whatever reason, chip away at us to make us more vulnerable in some twisted effort to get us to "run" to them for some sort of support, in which they then, at least in their own or group mind(s), puts us at a disadvantage and makes us more compliant to their wants?" That is a darn good way to describe it, Roxie. "In the end, only kindness matters." | ||
| Second Wind Senior Member Username: second_wind Post Number: 5631 Registered: 4-2007 |
A long time ago, in the "..Witness" thread, a fairly famous "persona" posted this: "The only way to awaken a victim of mind control seems to be to tell personal stories. No amount of dispassionate research or reading of scholarly articles seems able to suddenly, for the first time, open a deliberately closed, locked door in a victims' mind so that they can graduate to being a survivor. And if they chose to hang out in places where other people have screen memories similar to their own, then those awakenings are guaranteed to be like sparks in a powder keg There is a reason why MC programmed people cling so tightly to their screen memories and it has to do with forgotten torture that was mental, emotional and physical." True words, those. "In the end, only kindness matters." | ||
| Mama Shine Senior Member Username: mama_shine Post Number: 14462 Registered: 9-2006 |
SW, Roxie, Wonder why ya'll's posts run off the margin on the right and in order to read the post you have to scroll back and forth after each sentence. For some reason this makes me dizzy and I can't read them Is there something I can do to change this? I must create a system, or be enslaved by another man's. ~William Blake | ||
| Mama Shine Senior Member Username: mama_shine Post Number: 14463 Registered: 9-2006 |
Haha, look mine did it as well. I must create a system, or be enslaved by another man's. ~William Blake | ||
| Second Wind Senior Member Username: second_wind Post Number: 5632 Registered: 4-2007 |
Mama, I am assuming that you are reading the board with the navigation folders on the left side of the page, right? If so, try this: Pick a topic or thread you want to read, and instead of just clicking on it, RIGHT-click on it, and choose "open in new tab" or "open in new window". That way, it opens up the board, thread or topic WITHOUT the navigation pane on the left side. That solves the "runs off the end of the page" problem, at least for me. (I am still using IE7.  ) Hope that helps. "In the end, only kindness matters." | ||
| Second Wind Senior Member Username: second_wind Post Number: 5633 Registered: 4-2007 |
You can also right-click on the "topics" button (or any butto )in the navigation pane, or at the very top right of any page (scroll all the way up) and accomplish the same thing. "In the end, only kindness matters." | ||
| Mama Shine Senior Member Username: mama_shine Post Number: 14464 Registered: 9-2006 |
Yeah I read from the board... I have IE8. Dammit, I can't get it to work for me... I must create a system, or be enslaved by another man's. ~William Blake | ||
| Mama Shine Senior Member Username: mama_shine Post Number: 14465 Registered: 9-2006 |
YEE HAW...it worked I'm on it now. Thank you mah deah. I must create a system, or be enslaved by another man's. ~William Blake | ||
| Second Wind Senior Member Username: second_wind Post Number: 5634 Registered: 4-2007 |
http://imagecache2.allposters.com/images/DES/D802.jpg I always open a new page that way when I come to the board, for the very same reason! Much easier to read! The only drawback is you have to scroll back to the top of the page and use the links there if you want to change topics without making a post. Did that make sense?  "In the end, only kindness matters." | ||
| Second Wind Senior Member Username: second_wind Post Number: 5635 Registered: 4-2007 |
I also open all links posted in a thread, by right clicking and opening in a new tab. I do that, so I have the original thread and the link open at the same time, and I don't have to use the back button. "In the end, only kindness matters." | ||
| Mama Shine Senior Member Username: mama_shine Post Number: 14466 Registered: 9-2006 |
yessm, lol. I must create a system, or be enslaved by another man's. ~William Blake | ||
| Second Wind Senior Member Username: second_wind Post Number: 5636 Registered: 4-2007 |
mmmkay! "In the end, only kindness matters." | ||
| Second Wind Senior Member Username: second_wind Post Number: 5637 Registered: 4-2007 |
Have you noticed the smiley faces are not working right? Like the kiss one isn't smooching for me! "In the end, only kindness matters." | ||
| Second Wind Senior Member Username: second_wind Post Number: 5638 Registered: 4-2007 |
 And the yawn doesn't yawn. "In the end, only kindness matters." | ||
| Second Wind Senior Member Username: second_wind Post Number: 5639 Registered: 4-2007 |
And the talker doesn't talk. None of the animated ones work for me????? Hmmmmm "In the end, only kindness matters." | ||
| Mama Shine Senior Member Username: mama_shine Post Number: 14467 Registered: 9-2006 |
SW... They work... cheeky thangs jus messin wif ya. Okay I'm going ta sleep...I hope. Bonne nuit. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zG9vEgITUOg I must create a system, or be enslaved by another man's. ~William Blake | ||
| Roxanne New member Username: roxie Post Number: 9 Registered: 6-2011 |
Wow, SW!!!! No, I had not read that in the archives. And the quote "The only way to awaken the victims of mind control seems to be to tell personal stories" you posted on here, is absolutely correct. I would have never thought such a thing existed. So many, many similarities, it's scary. I mean, what are the possibilities of this "escort" thing being so similar??? Here's something else that has worried me for some time, but I could never put my finger on exactly why, until I came to this board and read the stories about MC: Like I posted, my husband and I cut mil off from our lives (as much as possible) 21 years ago. My son never really knew her, thankfully,or even what she looked like. When my son was around 7, mil called me one day, in the middle of the day, in the middle of the week, as usual, knowing that my husband would be at work. (This was after she was told NOT to call unless it was late in the evening, when my husband would be home from work - like that did any good.) She started out talking, in this very weak, sickly, about to die voice saying that she had injured her back and was flat on her back, in bed, and didn't know when she could even begin walking. (She is a liar and a drama queen). After a minute or two, her voice changes and suddenly she sounded perfectly fine. She goes on about how she works at this hotel (in Fla.) from 7 am til 3 pm, then walks across the street and works at another hotel from 3 pm til 11 pm. (If you knew her, this statement would be laughable as she is one of the laziest people I have ever met - although she's never mentioned exactly what "job" she does at these hotels.) Anyway, she then asks me if I would send my 7 year old son down the Fla. to spend the summer with her. (At that point, my son had never been away from home, even overnight, but a couple of times with a couple of his little friends.) I wasn't about to send him out of state, especially to her, for a single moment, much less an entire summer. I knew, from experience, that telling her "no" would only result in a feud between me and my husband, so I told her I would have to think about it and talk to my husband, just to get off the phone with her. Husband comes home and I tell him about the conversation. My concerns were, not only my son being away from home so long, especially with her, in another state, 8 hours away, but, the more obvious, which was, how in the hell was she going to care for him, being as she's flat on the back and "dying" and all, and even if she had a miraculous recovery, how was she going to care for him when she would "supposedly" be working from 7 am til 11 pm? We decided that, no, he would not be spending any time with her, at all, and chose to just ignore the call and not respond. She eventually called back, later that evening, at which point husband expressed his concerns. Her comeback was, that her 2 granddaughters (sil's children) would be there to "care" for him. One granddaughter is 4 years older than my son and one is 3 years younger. And according to her, they have stayed with her every summer for the past several years. Who the hell cares for the children while she is supposedly at work? Anyway, she was told, no, Shortly after this conversation, my husband's younger brother takes a sudden interest in my son. I really didn't question it at the time because this younger brother was (and still is) extremely immature, and was recently divorced. I honestly thought this bil was just a big kid and lonely after his divorce, so I didn't think anything about it when bil started asking my son to go over to bil's house to play video games. Bil was given strict orders from my husband that if mil ever showed up at bil's house that our son was NEVER, EVER, allowed to leave with her, and we should be called immediately upon her arrival. One day, maybe a couple of years later, my son comes home from bil's house and mentions that he has spoken to mil, on the phone. My knees grew weak and I started shaking. I tried to stay calm and asked him what the conversation was about, but he just said "I don't know" or "I don't remember". (At that time I was thinking, he's just a kid, he probably doesn't remember what she babbled on about. However, after reading here, it scares me.) I then asked him if that was the first time he had ever spoken to her while at bil's house. He told me that she called every time he was at bil's house. (I wondered, at that time, if it was her calling or if bil was caller her.) Anyway, I told him that he didn't have to speak to her on the phone if he didn't want to and if bil got upset about, to call and we come come and bring him home. (He never mentioned, again, talking to her on the phone, so I don't know if he still was or not.) *****Please bear with me, I know this is long*********** Around that same time, bil gave my son a cheap digital camera. Once bil showed my son how to connect it to the computer, my son sees four pictures that were in the memory of the camera. Bil shows him how to open the file to see the pictures. I could have strangled bil! The four pics were one pic each of mil, sil and sil's 2 daughters, each of them lying on the couch and a seductive pose, with their legs spread and the camera angle from between their feet! Why would bil even take such a pic of his mother, sister and nieces?????? And why show them to my son????? I was furious and asked bil how to delete them, at which point he got mad at me, saying that he thought my son would like to have pics of his family! Maybe it's just me. I was raised in the deep south by a very prudish mother and grandmother, who taught me that being a "lady" at all times, was paramount. A "lady"always keeps her knees together. I don't know that, even if I hadn't been raised to be a "lady" that I would ever allow myself, my daughter and my granddaughters to be photographed in such a way, especially, ESPECIALLY, by my own son! Is this strange to anyone else? That was the end of my son spending any "alone time" with this bil. Right after that, bil got married, again, and his new wife got pregnant right away, but bil would still come over to our house, after work, to play video games with my son, much to his new wife's chagrin. About a year later, when their new baby arrived, my husband, who had been working with young bil and older bil, decided that they just could not get along, and my husband quit working with them, thereby having little contact with bil. And my son, being older, was spending time with his own friends, not wanting to hang around with his uncle so much. Later that year, my husband, son and I took a vacation traveling all the way to Calif. and back. After we got back, we happened to run into a mutual friend of ours and bil's and we told her how much we liked the "west" and how we would love to be able to move there one day. The mutual friend then runs into bil and repeats our comment about wanting to move out west one day, at which point bil starts yelling and screaming, something to the effect of, "They can't take (my son's name) away from me! I'll never see him again! They'll take him away and I'll never be able to find him. I'll fix it so they can't take him away from me!" This mutual friend has apologized to me ever since. She had no idea what she was about to set into motion. Bil then goes, the next day and files a "Materialman's Lien" on our property, to keep us from moving. We had to hire an attorney, who contacted their attorney claiming it was a bogus claim and they were not, by law, allowed to do that. Anyway, the Materialman's Lien was dropped, but only to place another lien on my husband, which was also bogus (and which we fought for over five years). But, you see, this was all started by bil, who thought he was going to loose access to my son, MY SON, not his child. The last call we received form bil was in Dec. of last year, begging to see our son. My husband told him that our son is 22 years old and he can make his own decisions about who he wants to associate with. Does this make sense? I have nieces and nephews, and I love them, but I don't love them "that" much. Not so much that I would destroy their parent's lives over not being able to see them. I know when my son was born, there was NOBODY more important to me that my son, and certainly not any niece or nephew. I just never could figure out what this attraction to my son that bil had, even after the birth of his own child. I don't know exactly if bil was "grooming" my son, possibly under the direction of mil, and I shudder to think about the implications. I have, very gently, tried to find out from my son, if anything happened. But at that time my son was young, and either was told or threatened to not speak of anything, or was embarrassed, or if, in fact, nothing happened, which makes no sense in the grand scheme of things. All I know, at this point, is that my son despises bil and refuses to talk to him. After reading about all this MC, it breaks my heart that I may have unwittingly exposed my child to something like this. I know that mil has tried to get to me (obviously with the whole escort thing). I don't know if she ever "has" used me in a way that is described as MC. Maybe I just never "took". Maybe I was just to "dense" to be fully manipulated. I think that may be the reason she goes after my husband and son. | ||
| blue Senior Member Username: jennyblue Post Number: 1059 Registered: 3-2007 |
such sad stories. makes one think that we are just the tip of the iceberg. dont beat yourself up over this roxanne. as you are seeing here -- you are not alone. It sounds like you are doing the best you can do -- and that will not be lost on your son, regardless of what he is going thru. You want him, above all, to know he is worthwhile as a person and that you love him -- unconditionally (hopefully papa does too). This will go a long way in helping him overcome any issues or experiences he may have once you pretty much lose any control over his friends, his whereabouts, etc. perhaps some of my thinking will help at times when nothing else does. Remember that your son's soul is a lot older than his body. Your souls might be the same "age" -- your son might even have an "older" soul. So even tho it hurts to think someone could be harming your child -- on a physical/emotional-mental level -- his soul is watching and learning. Souls are more likely to see the big picture, the silver lining within the cloud. Your son's soul -- more than likely -- chose his body/life and was well aware of the kinds of experiences he would be challenged by. With your help -- he can cope with any experience -- no matter how hidden or painful or hideous. Its very hard to protect your children from other family members when you have no real proof of any wrong doing. You are fortunate that your husband supports your feelings regarding his mother. Its hard to imagine he hasnt suffered under her tutelage. Work on your son's self-esteem and confidence so that as he grows he will trust himself (rather than always seek out others to "give" him the answers). Be there for him as he becomes more independent and rebellious. It doesnt mean you support things he does that you dont approve of -- but dont cut him off. Be willing to let go and forgive. Give him tools if you can to deal with things -- knowledge of how diet and exercise affect one's mood, etc. I think a lot of people who have problems with people who talk about these kinds of experiences do so because their subconscious is trying so hard to prevent their own similar memories from reaching the surface. For example -- people who are violently anti-gay . . . Being raped or sexually abused by anyone is never a good thing -- but many men cannot bear the thought of remembering being raped or taking part in sexual activities with other man/men. In the state one is put in with drugs and hypnotism -- one may have greatly "enjoyed" one's trauma -- if not at first, then eventually (which can actually be a good thing but I wont go into that here . . .). Now if that person has been raised believing that sex outside of a man/woman marriage and something like this happens to them -- imagine the turmoil. Consequently, after the mind sets up a barrier to prevent the memory from surfacing (which supports the perp's efforts to erase or hide the memory) -- the conscious mind also helps to protect that memory every way it can -- and that includes hatred of anything that might remind him of it. -- Another reason people get bent out of shape when one brings up mind control -- people are terrified of remembering. They believe they will die if they remember. Many people are not "ready" to remember -- may never be ready. and that's ok. Those of us who do remember/understand (?) need to realize that. Your mil may be aligned with evil or just another crazy, mixed up victim. You are fortunate to have had the sense to keep your son away from her. So the bil steps up to the plate. Do you beat yourself up because you didnt see it coming? No. You need to remain strong, together, functioning (if not always perfectly  I wrote a long post this morning in the Sinister Forces thread. Unfortunately, my computer froze (my fault) just before I posted it. I am going to try at some point to recollect my thoughts and post it there later. The short of it is -- constant fear and worry are not only not productive -- they actually drag us (individually and collectively) down into lower worlds where sinister forces are more in control. Even tho a lot of the world seems to be the same as the one you just left -- things get progressively worse t/here. More stuff happens -- stuff seems to be scaring you all the time -- and you are not thinking "maybe this is happening" -- things become more blatant and terrifying. You meet others who confirm your suspicions. You think you are uncovering more and more layers of truth, but you are really just diving down deeper into desperate times and places. Make a concentrated effort to keep your overall outlook positive. Its good to be aware -- and with awareness comes choices for which you are then responsible. When one comes to edge of the rabbit hole -- try not to fall in -- unless you really want to go there. Keep your focus on what's best about your life/your world. Follow the trail that leads you away from the pit. Keep your distance (as best you can) from those people who insist on/have no control over -- living in a lower vibration world. The less you focus on them -- the less powerful they become in your world and the less likely it is that they will be able to "seduce" you into theirs (thru your fear and/or hatred). We are the ones we've been waiting for. Hopi Elders 2001. to be a rock and still to roll . . . change we can believe in is here -- The Ed Show Love is the Way ~ Jesus of Nazareth | ||
| Roxanne New member Username: roxie Post Number: 11 Registered: 6-2011 |
Thank you for your kind words and encouragement, Blue. You are right that I have and still do beat myself up over this. I am proud to say that my son has done very well despite any harm that may have been caused by these monsters. He is a highly talented, self-taught musician and artist. It absolutely baffles me how he can compose and play music, on several different instruments, without any training. It's almost like he's a savant (almost). And he's the sweetest, kindest, funniest, most mature, responsible and respectful person I know. (Hey, braggin rights) If you saw him, he might come across as a little scary. He dyes his beautiful, naturally blonde hair, black, has a weird haircut, dresses in all that black, goth apparel with buckles and spikes and all. He went with me once to the grocery store (I don't know how that happened) and some poor little old woman was actually backing away from him as he walked up the aisle. He drives a hearse with an actual coffin in the back! He has a life-size (fake) mummy that he sets at his poker table as if it's playing cards. (I'd hate to walk in on that on a dark and stormy night with the electricity out!) I figure, if that's the only way he rebels, then that's fine by me. He doesn't drink or smoke or take drugs and can't stand to be around anyone who does. And with all that scariness (is that a word?) that he portrays, he always tells my husband and me that he loves us. He has even helped us by paying our house payment a few times while we were battling this law suit, and in dire financial straits. If you saw him in public, you might never imagine him sitting patiently trying to teach my 8 year old nephew how to play the guitar, or see him lying on the floor playing with my toy poodle and maltese, or in the kitchen cooking. It just dawned on me, now that I've typed that, but maybe his scary persona is a wall of protection for him. Not wanting anyone to get too close. But he's so timid around adults that are older than him, especially men, which I feel is a direct result of bil. He doesn't speak of bil much, but when he does it is with absolute hatred (although he has never actually said that he hated him, which makes him a much better person than me!). It's funny that you mentioned him being an old soul. When he was just a few months old, someone said the exact same thing about him, then. And he's always had such a mature perspective about people. He has always, since a child, been able to "see through" people and their motives, but, for some reason I think he let his guard down with bil. Who knows, maybe once the "grooming" by bil became apparent, my son managed to see through it and that is when he turned away from bil. I keep hoping that my son got away from him before any damage was done. Yes, I do need to stop running all this through my mind. There's nothing I can do about it now, but move on in a more positive manner. But... (and you knew that was coming)... these monsters just won't leave us alone. It's very difficult to get over something or someone when they insist on invading your life. Before we moved, back in November, there wasn't a day that went by that bil didn't drive by our house. Aunt and uncle were constantly "dropping in" for an overnight stay. The last time we heard from bil was around Christmas. My husband's aunt and uncle continued to call up until around March, then finally...silence! I was so relieved. I really thought his family had gotten the hint to leave us alone. Not so! In May we (my husband, son and I) were involved with a fundraising event which took place in a nearby town (the same town that sil lives in). I hoped and prayed that she nor any of the other family would find out that we were involved. But...my husband was on the 2 local tv stations of that town doing public service announcements for the event. I kept praying that sil nor any of the other family would not see them. The day of the event came and by the late afternoon, I started to relax thinking they had not seen the announcements, when sil's 19 year old daughter showed up. I'm sure she was sent by sil and mil and possibly bil. She sat at my booth, and even when I tried to have a conversation with her, she would only smile and stare at me. She never spoke a single word. She then went over to my son and sat with him for a while. I asked my son, later, what she had to say and he told me she never uttered a word, only sat and stared and smiled. That's just bizarre behavour. I suppose I am just looking for validation of some sort. Thank you again Blue and thank you also SW. Without your words of wisdom on this board, I don't know how I would continue to cope. Love to you all, Roxie | ||
| animalspirits Senior Member Username: animalspiritstalstarcom Post Number: 10197 Registered: 10-2006 |
Roxie, Your son sounds like a very cool kid! Understand that all things are sacred--yet nothing is sacred. ~Yotee Coyote Website: http://beyondvibration.org Blog: http://animalspirits--withoutfear.blogspot.com | ||
| Roxanne New member Username: roxie Post Number: 12 Registered: 6-2011 |
Thanks, he is. What's the term? He's scary good! | ||
| blue Senior Member Username: jennyblue Post Number: 1062 Registered: 3-2007 |
wow, Roxie! Sounds like you really didnt need my 'advice' re your son. and i am glad to help in any way i can We are taught to punish ourselves for deeds and outcomes but all that matters on a spiritual level is intent. I think learning that sooner as a parent rather than later helps keep one's sanity and perspective. Children know, deep down inside, when they are loved (or not). Second Wind is a great support regarding a largely human aspect of the weirdness in our lives that many of us come here to discuss. I wld consider her an expert in areas of harassment and people precipitated abductions. I've learned a lot from her as well. (Message edited by jennyblue on July 21, 2011) We are the ones we've been waiting for. Hopi Elders 2001. to be a rock and still to roll . . . change we can believe in is here -- The Ed Show Love is the Way ~ Jesus of Nazareth | ||
| animalspirits Senior Member Username: animalspiritstalstarcom Post Number: 10200 Registered: 10-2006 |
Roxie, Children are born with an amazing connection to the knowledge that their soul knows. As a parent, we have to acknowledge that in some respects they are more in tune than we are. We can learn much from them. A parent has to be very careful NOT to transfer their fears and beliefs on their children. Allow them to nourish this innate knowledge that they have. If you do that, then they are far more empowered as a unique soul than if they are being taught by their parents. I believe the hardest thing that a parent has to understand is that each of their children is here to walk their own unique path. Honor their walk. Guide them when you have to. Otherwise, allow them their belief systems. They come to Earth already enclosed in a protection shield, that unless it is torn down by "well meaning, but clueless" parents, they are able to expand their souls right out of the womb. Unfortunately, parents seem to try and guide them to be like the parent. This is not love, but control. I am talking about spiritual and soul growth. Understand that all things are sacred--yet nothing is sacred. ~Yotee Coyote Website: http://beyondvibration.org Blog: http://animalspirits--withoutfear.blogspot.com | ||
| Second Wind Senior Member Username: second_wind Post Number: 5642 Registered: 4-2007 |
Roxie, your description of your sil's behavior is so creepy. Part of me wants to ask why nobody confronted her in SOME way, about her strange behavior. But then, I have to remind myself that, in situations like that, when we are confronted with what I call "theatre" (although I did not originate the term) we become almost incapacitated....like a deer in the headlights. We dissociate just due to the weirdness. And that is exactly what the perpetrators want. That is the purpose for the strange behavior. It is intended to threaten, and throw us off-balance. ----------------------- Blue, you said: "We are taught to punish ourselves for deeds and outcomes but all that matters on a spiritual level is intent. I think learning that sooner as a parent rather than later helps keep one's sanity and perspective. Children know, deep down inside, when they are loved (or not)." I needed to hear that! Thank you. It seems to me that those with honest and/or selfless intent are also the ones most likely to punish themselves; and, conversely, the ones with less-than-honest, selfish, and even EVIL intent, are the LEAST likely to even admit responsibility, and, in fact, are most likely to completely deny their actions. And thanks for your kind words. I have learned so much in the last 10 years, about experiences and memories I used to believe I would never find understandable explanations for. Until I learned about MKULTRA, I never had a context for my memories and experiences. So, obviously, all I have learned, was learned in self-defense. AND, it was all information that was put out there by people who learned it long before I did. I am grateful to them. And, as I have stated many times here......among the first few bits of information I discovered on these subjects, one of the most significant for me was written by our own Whitley Strieber. It was the things he wrote about in a "Whitley's Journal" entry in 2003, that finally validated so many of my own experiences. I finally knew that my experiences actually happened (even though, like Whitley, I only have partial memories), and that I did not "make this stuff up", as certain family members had accused me of. This is the Journal entry, for any who have not seen it: The Boy in the Box "In the end, only kindness matters." | ||
| Roxanne New member Username: roxie Post Number: 13 Registered: 6-2011 |
Blue, I appreciate your advice and thoughts. I agree with you on all you have written. In fact it is very validating to me to read that someone else thinks similarly to me. And yes, SW has been instrumental, in her postings, to help me see that I am not alone and that these things really do happen. Thank you SW. AS, I agree 100% with what you wrote. I have tried to allow my son to find his own way. I have never pushed religion or intentionally tried to force my own views on him. People that know me have always thought I was sort of "hippy-ish" in my child-rearing. I took him out of public school when he was 8, to homeschool him. Most of the homeschooling groups in my area were very religious-based, not to mention the public school he attended. I brought him home to school him to give him the freedom to learn without any religious influence. I found that after I started schooling him, that if I just left him alone and allowed him to pursue his own interests, that he flourished and far excelled any expectation that I or any curriculum could. If he wanted to spend 5 hours on math, then I let him. If the next day he spent all morning with his chemistry set in my kitchen, I let him. If he just wanted to spend the afternoon reading, it was fine with me. I found that trying to impose "structure" such as a limited amount of time on each subject, just didn't work, so I allowed him to set the pace. I know some people may be horrified that I allowed an 8 year old child direct his own learning, but it worked for him. I think that is how he was able to become so talented in his music. He didn't take any lessons, and I imagine, if he had, he would have shut down and given up. He is a wiz with the computer, all self taught. I can't take credit for anything he has taught himself. I do like to think that taking him out of the public school system helped. You are right, it is hard not to influence him with my views on life, which I've tried not to do (the operative word here is tried), I have found that he has his own views, whether contrary to mine or not, and I allow him that. I've had many well-meaning (or not) people thinking that, due to my laid-back style of child rearing, express concerns about my son eventually "running wild" and getting "into trouble". I think, at least with me and my son, that giving him the freedom to explore his own life and interests has done just the opposite. He has never run wild or been in any trouble. In fact he has ended a few friendships due to the wild nature of the friends. I was raised in a very strict environment. I couldn't wait to turn 18 so I could get out from under my parent's control. I didn't run wild or get into to trouble, but only because I had to get a steady job in order to pay for my own apartment and car. I literally couldn't afford to do anything that would jeapordize my freedom. I hope that, if anything happened to him by way of my bil, that it hasn't left a scar on his sweet, amazing soul. My husband and I never even spanked him as a child. The thought of striking anyone, much less a child sickens me. I came from a very abusive home, so I made a point to never humiliate or harm him. My point being, that I scares me to think that anyone, especially a family member has harmed him in some way. I know he's grown now and seems to be doing well, so I guess it's just my maternal nature to feel guilty for allowing anything to happen to him, if it did, when he was a child. Thank you all for your thoughts and advice. Love to you all, Roxie | ||
| Roxanne New member Username: roxie Post Number: 14 Registered: 6-2011 |
As, I also wanted to share with you, in regard to your post, that I have a book, which I can't seem to find at the moment, by Khalil Gibran. I had run across it shortly after my son was born, and in it there was a poem (I think) about how our children are not our own, as in not our belongings. I loved that passage and read it frequently, and have tried to raise my son on that principle. I believe the poem is exactly about what you are posting about. If I can find it, I will post it for you. | ||
| animalspirits Senior Member Username: animalspiritstalstarcom Post Number: 10202 Registered: 10-2006 |
Roxie, Sounds like you Hippie you, , did an outstanding job with his schooling. That is what is wrong with education today. It is too structured for most children. Loosen the structure and they do fine. From one Hippie to another: Understand that all things are sacred--yet nothing is sacred. ~Yotee Coyote Website: http://beyondvibration.org Blog: http://animalspirits--withoutfear.blogspot.com | ||
| Roxanne New member Username: roxie Post Number: 15 Registered: 6-2011 |
SW, I guess we were posting at the same time. Are you referring to my sil's 19 year old daughter's behaviour about her not speaking, only staring and smiling? If so, yes, it is creepy. That is exactly the term my son used to describe her. At that event she came to, when I realized she wasn't going to talk or answer any polite conversation, I just got busy attending to my booth and didn't try to engage with her any further. I was thinking the exact thing you are talking about. I thought to myself, if she was trying to intimidate me, I would just act like it didn't bother me. However, it did bother me, a lot. I kept wondering why she would even attend this event, unless of course she was directed to. I think people like my in-laws are more about wanting to "be seen" rather than to see us. I don't know, that's just the impression I get. Anyway, after I asked her how she was, upon first seeing her (I didn't really care, I was just trying to be polite) and she didn't answer, I just ignored her. The thought was running through my mind to NOT ask her any questions, as that might open a door for her to question me. I also made it a point not to "reveal" anything, no matter how small, about me or my family. Mostly, I just stayed busy with my booth, trying to ignore the smiling, staring, creepy girl. Yes, I think it was a form of intimidation. Yes, I felt she was sent there to "throw me off balance." But, you know, if I had never read all your posts about this type of thing, I probably would have confronted her, only then to be humiliated in some way. Your words about people with evil intent not excepting responsibility for any wrong-doing: I've noticed that myself. But I wonder sometimes if they actually do feel that they haven't done anything wrong, or if, in fact, they enjoy their wrong-doing. That it's a sick and twisted game with them. In other words, they know it's wrong, they know it results in pain to their victims, and that is exactly what they want. It's sort of like liars. Some people lie to protect themselves, some lie to not hurt someone's feelings, some lie to embellish their on ego. And then there are the people that lie just to get one over on you. In other words they may tell you they went to grocery store Y, when they actually went to grocery store X. We really don't care where they went, it's not important to us, but the liar sees it as a weird victory that they were able to fool us, even on such an insignificant thing. At least that's what I have come to believe. And, by the way, in my above post, I meant to write "hippie-ish" not "hippy-ish", although I am a little hippy-ish! | ||
| Roxanne New member Username: roxie Post Number: 16 Registered: 6-2011 |
Thanks AS, yes, hippie, NOT hippy, my hips didn't have anything to do with my laid-back attitude, although it may be my laid-back attitude that has caused me to become hippy! Anyway, I sort of took John Gatto's (I think that's his name) approach to "unschooling" and it worked wonderfully for my son. | ||
| animalspirits Senior Member Username: animalspiritstalstarcom Post Number: 10203 Registered: 10-2006 |
Roxie, At my age, I am both hippie-ish and hippy-ish. Understand that all things are sacred--yet nothing is sacred. ~Yotee Coyote Website: http://beyondvibration.org Blog: http://animalspirits--withoutfear.blogspot.com | ||
| susi Senior Member Username: etsi Post Number: 4549 Registered: 11-2009 |
i love gatto. i had the good fortune of having an excellent pediatrician back when my kids were small. he diagnosed my daughter as having dyslexia before anyone knew what the word meant. he also was frustrated with the school system because he said the biggest problem with it was they expected all kids to learn a certain way when in fact each child differs in how they process information. he said the ideal 'class' was one teacher to 5 kids. i had to work so i couldn't home school, but i'm sure to this day the manatee country school board still cringes when they hear my name.  sure you can trust the government....just ask an indian. |
