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Da'an
Senior Member
Username: daan

Post Number: 762
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Sunday, June 19, 2005 - 12:17 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

its that powerful lower jaw thingie.
the sith lord and would be evil emperor
at first seem to have no connect to
Senator Palpatine, and with the obvious
overbite, the senator seems not to be the
hooded arch-fiend putting the sith through their paces let alone the robot armies.
THE TRANFORMATION SCENE IS REALLY COOL,
AND THE EMPEROR's MAKEUP IS CLEVER. EVEN
If A TAD HokeY! YOU SEE THE MOVIE JOLT ALIVE
SUFFIENTLY WELL LONG BEFORE "ANi" BECOMES TRAPPED
IN A FRANKENSTEIN's MONSTER METALLIC SHELL
Of A HULKING BODY! YOU START TO CARE ABOUT THE CHARACTERS. EARLIER YOU WISH YOU COULD PDA
THEM A STREET MAP OR TWO...
however, after a lackluster hour, the m0vie
by its second hour places all of the puzzle pieces together so that you almost wish you could see the original Star Wars movie right after this one so as to see how it all fits together. the scenes resonate differently.
almost enough by this to justify getting the
initial three movies on DVD or HDTV format
when its available in the next year. i am
glad LUCAS completed the cycle with a degree
of intelligence, even though hour one had
me thinking BATTLEFIELD EARTH was more
cerebral and intelligently written...
[i'd have even given jar-jar dialogue again]
[jar-jar at least is a semi-interesting
animated character]

The second half of the movie makes this
a must see for STAR WARs fans!

again, YODA deserves an Oscar for leading actor and the dude who plays PALPATINE deserves a
supporting actor Oscar...

i am serious about this.
YODA is the fresh talent
on LUCAS's studio lot!




!
We are in either year 100 or 105 of our
PAX AMERICANA EMPIRE. we did a job
even better than OCTAVIUS CAESAR ever did
in his day when clinging to the trappings
of Republicanism in order to
set forth our EMPIRE.

This is at the core
of the imagery George Lucas uses. the ROME
of AUGUSTUS CAESAR + DECENDANTs is like our previous and prior 100 years...WE ARE AN EMPIRE.
THE REVENGE OF THE SITH is our creation myth
with its echo-ings of hitler, mussolini and ww2
yet the jut-jaw profile is not of our italian
tyrant. its sorta like a dude who is a computer morph of tyrone power and millard fillmore...yes
verily quitely hints again at again a proof positive in a quiet esoteric way of the
hypothesis
that an e.t alien spaceflivver was reverse engineered about 105 years ago...the echoings
are here inside this movie. the deep past meets the deep future. JOHN NASH may have been discredited before he could talk about
the e.ts...

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

!
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Da'an
Senior Member
Username: daan

Post Number: 796
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Monday, August 01, 2005 - 4:04 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

.

looked at ABC saturday at 8 pm
saw K_PAX with kevin spacey.
he's almost acting
tres 'aspie' precise.

in the news over the weekend
some astronomers feel they have found
our solar system's TENTH iceworld planet...
with a long eliptical orbit
some 45 degrees
at a variance to our platter arrangement
around
auld sol...

the timing of the movie
was cool,


doctor jeff
[starman] bridges
is informed
we have ten planets
in our solar system...



!
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Da'an
Senior Member
Username: daan

Post Number: 832
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Wednesday, September 21, 2005 - 12:22 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

!


asperger's or simply
a nervous breakdown, or schizoid?
BEAUTIFUL MIND is confusing.
the lines between hallucination and reality
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Grace
Senior Member
Username: g_keetose

Post Number: 757
Registered: 4-2005
Posted on Tuesday, September 27, 2005 - 1:38 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

At least he didn't have a self-satisfied pedestrian cow suggest he kill himself.
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Grace
Senior Member
Username: g_keetose

Post Number: 766
Registered: 4-2005
Posted on Tuesday, October 04, 2005 - 4:52 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

ugh. Nothing has served me better than restraint of pen and tongue. Can't point the finger without three pointing back. Moo
I wonder if Nash dreamt of strange people at the windows luring him out with insatiable bait.

People are much more patient than I give them credit for.
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Da'an
Senior Member
Username: daan

Post Number: 853
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Monday, October 10, 2005 - 3:06 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

patience has to be exemplified by the ufo community who ask repeatedly for honesty concerning the roswell saucer...
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Patricia Davis
Senior Member
Username: patricia

Post Number: 7929
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Monday, October 10, 2005 - 4:00 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

Indeed. They ask and ask, but are met with bland refusals to release anything but the occasional heavily-redacted, poor quality Xerox copy. Which implies that something directly related to National Security issues is involved...doesn't it?

My own patience is long since run out. The National Security Act of 1947 hides under its skirts a host of egregious human rights abuses, some masquerading as alien abductions and some as UFOs (that are anything BUT "unidentified" to the Skunk Works boys).
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Da'an
Senior Member
Username: daan

Post Number: 856
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Tuesday, October 11, 2005 - 10:55 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

.


true


.
jack shulman turned me on to how central
AT&T was to all this for harry s. truman...
jack shulman was once a wizz kid programmer.

!
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Da'an
Senior Member
Username: daan

Post Number: 857
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Tuesday, October 11, 2005 - 10:57 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

.


http://www.byamerican.com/


.
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Stephen in AZ
Senior Member
Username: stephenm

Post Number: 895
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Thursday, December 01, 2005 - 6:39 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

Perhaps ETs do not consider any of us sane.
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Stephen in AZ
Senior Member
Username: stephenm

Post Number: 947
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Tuesday, January 10, 2006 - 10:19 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

What's considered sane and insane keeps changing, anyway.
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Da'an
Senior Member
Username: daan

Post Number: 898
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Wednesday, January 11, 2006 - 10:56 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

.

[j. robert oppenheimer + teller]
fission and fusion ---just read the book,
" brotherhood of the bomb"...

also
once again
the hodges book
on turing.

~~~~in light of the book by
the 80something italian guy who saw
a hypothetically nuclear detonation
on a baltic island circa 1944 that
implies fallout and bunkers and
a 3rd*reich!nuke prototype design...
dare i say the paranoia
poor john nash seems to have said
midTOlate*1950s actually isn't?
namely that before he went
into and to princeton, as ww2 drew
to a close...heavy water shipments
were being saboutaged in norway
by the o.s.s and the partisans BECAUSE http://www.unknowncountry.com/news/?id=5108


!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

let us not
ask {{{odessa}}} questions...as to
where all hitler's better prototypes
went after avril!1945





!
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Da'an
Senior Member
Username: daan

Post Number: 899
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Wednesday, January 11, 2006 - 11:04 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

poor nash.

john luis von neumann once co-penned
a paper with klaus fuchs yet kept
a security clearance FOUR as long as hoyt vandenburg and robert oppenheimer did.
john luis von neumann had two
brilliant math department
game theory proteges at princeton
in succession...turing in 1937, and mayhap nash
in 1947...

tinker tailor solider spy...this is a bayer aspirin headache, folks...


bern?



?
did mr dulles in bern actually
know if hitler's scientists
had been successful? when
paperclips deal was made?
was one of the bargining chips
a cog!ni!sense of an
actual or pretend yet almost
real detonation
on this baltic real estate?

am re*posing my basic thought
experiament question
in spyboss terms, to wit...
did hitler's spyboss really get a really big retirement package from day one?
BECAUSE................................???? http://www.unknowncountry.com/news/?id=5108
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!






~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~!






this when also asking 509th questions about roswell and the four corners area...is
a much deep question than appears
on the surface! the e.ts seem to like
to moniter us... RE-READ MAJESTIC!!!!



????????????????????????????
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!






.

i repeat...re-read majestic
this all is coming out of italy.
take DAY!AFTER!ROSWELL by philip corso
and RE-READ MAJESTIC!!! ~~~ if the third reich
almost had missles and rockets and tidy
a-bombs and h-bombs and shippes at sea...really
get queasy to one's gut over how close ww2
went and how hair's breath this all was.
our alternative reality timeline
was very totally decision tree close...
this all really begs a question!




!

(Message edited by da'an on January 11, 2006)
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Da'an
Senior Member
Username: daan

Post Number: 900
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Wednesday, January 11, 2006 - 11:17 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

.


up



.
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Stephen in AZ
Senior Member
Username: stephenm

Post Number: 990
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Friday, February 24, 2006 - 2:48 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

Someday I'll have to read Majestic.
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Da'an
Senior Member
Username: daan

Post Number: 1157
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Wednesday, April 12, 2006 - 6:23 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

.

goto my enigma postings here.
as you can see, i do not try to
hide at all, really, and i can
be opinionated. i even made a posting
about my local fbi people in 2004


.
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Da'an
Senior Member
Username: daan

Post Number: 1228
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Sunday, May 14, 2006 - 11:39 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

.


john nash, i believe, was nsa.
the step switch calling patterns
are an ancient index easily
accomplished by the technology
contemporary to vannover bush.


watcher, thomas, astroboy,
i bumped this thread for you.

this is the iceburg
i am refering to. nash knew things.
still does, in an indirect way.
he did not create the index, he merely
is a great mathematician. very much
like alan turing or
john luis von neumann...
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Thomas
Senior Member
Username: thomas_j_veil

Post Number: 752
Registered: 3-2006
Posted on Sunday, May 14, 2006 - 11:52 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

Does anyone know if Dr. Vannevar Bush, one of the alleged "original members" of MJ-12, was related to the the current Bush first-family?

(Message edited by thomas_j_veil on May 14, 2006)
"Question what's real. Question who's real."
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L. A. B.
Senior Member
Username: leathab

Post Number: 6020
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Sunday, May 14, 2006 - 11:56 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

Unrelated but George likes to "quote" from him.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vannevar_Bush
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Thomas
Senior Member
Username: thomas_j_veil

Post Number: 753
Registered: 3-2006
Posted on Sunday, May 14, 2006 - 12:12 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

Thanks, L. A. B.
"Question what's real. Question who's real."
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Stephen in AZ
Senior Member
Username: stephenm

Post Number: 1114
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Sunday, June 11, 2006 - 8:53 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

Will John Nash someday tell what he knew?
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Morgaine
Intermediate Member
Username: morgaine

Post Number: 185
Registered: 6-2006
Posted on Friday, July 07, 2006 - 11:46 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

Newsweek has a quiz that looks at your Autism Quotient.
http://www.msnbc.com/modules/newsweek/autism_quotient/default.asp

I scored in the high-functioning Asperger's range.
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Patricia Davis
Senior Member
Username: patricia

Post Number: 10314
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Saturday, July 08, 2006 - 1:10 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

Wow. That was a surprise--I scored around 30
"When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." Sinclair Lewis 1935
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Morgaine
Intermediate Member
Username: morgaine

Post Number: 189
Registered: 6-2006
Posted on Saturday, July 08, 2006 - 2:24 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

Yeah, I got a 33, which didn't really surprise me, because I was doing a search on Asperger's to see if I might have it. Honestly, though, I think most shy people would score in the 30s.
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L. A. B.
Senior Member
Username: leathab

Post Number: 6798
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Saturday, July 08, 2006 - 1:04 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

21-high end of average (for women.)
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Patricia Davis
Senior Member
Username: patricia

Post Number: 10319
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Saturday, July 08, 2006 - 6:49 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

That's a very good point, Morgaine. I've become very aware since my marriage to The Skeptic that shy, sensitive people are treated as if they were mentally disordered in this society. I found some wonderful books on that subject ("The Highly Sensitive Person" books) that at long last gave me a vocabulary to use in sticking up for myself. Like many (most) Americans, The Skeptic is an outgoing, gregarious person who is happiest by far when interacting intensively with other extroverts.

Then there's me. Solitary and very happy being that way...until it's demonized as "unhealthy", that is. Maybe that's why I truly sympathize Asperger's folks and try to be supportive of them.

The fact that I'm mildly Obsessive Compulsive doesn't help either, now that I think of it
"When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." Sinclair Lewis 1935
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TheLabRat
Senior Member
Username: thelabrat

Post Number: 555
Registered: 1-2006
Posted on Saturday, July 08, 2006 - 7:35 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

I scored 34.

And I agree with the probability that most shy people, and especially HSP's, would probably score high on these scales.

However, when I tried to share the information about HSP's in my family, I was mocked with sarcastic comments like, "WELL, aren't YOU SPECIAL!!!"

They would much rather believe I am "abbie-normal" and weird.


I, too, believe that Nash was NSA AND MC'd!
"In the end, only kindness matters."
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Morgaine
Intermediate Member
Username: morgaine

Post Number: 193
Registered: 6-2006
Posted on Sunday, July 09, 2006 - 12:04 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

Patricia - I read a part of the HSP book. It definitely applies to me. There's a line in the movie Bull Durham that says "the world is made for those not cursed with self-awareness." I think that's an important point. There seem to be two basic tendencies (with many shades of variation, of course) among humans who are either extremely sensitive or not very sensitive at all.

The people who don't process all the information that bombards them are more active. Soldiers, athletes, the more outgoing types that aren't bothered by much fall into the latter category. I'm definitely of the former category - very sensitive to any kind of environmental or emotional input. We tend to be more introverted. I would guess most of the people who post here belong to that category.

I identified very intensely with the portrayal of John Nash in the movie. It did a good job of showing what it feels like to be trapped inside your head.
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Mark
Senior Member
Username: mark

Post Number: 2234
Registered: 2-2001
Posted on Sunday, July 09, 2006 - 11:28 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

"The unexamined life is not worth living"

author? Socrates?
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Morgaine
Advanced Member
Username: morgaine

Post Number: 209
Registered: 6-2006
Posted on Monday, July 10, 2006 - 1:59 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

"The unexamined life is not worth living."
--Socrates, in Plato, Dialogues, Apology
Greek philosopher in Athens (469 BC - 399 BC)

Right you are, Mark.
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Mark
Senior Member
Username: mark

Post Number: 2235
Registered: 2-2001
Posted on Monday, July 10, 2006 - 5:26 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

I recall another one,
It is impossible to discuss philosophy with a man who has already made up his mind.
- a Greek philosopher.
...and where is the emphasis placed in education, or even in conversation, these days,?

Having an answer or opinion before the subject is even discussed.
- and then defending that unexamined preconception.
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Morgaine
Advanced Member
Username: morgaine

Post Number: 215
Registered: 6-2006
Posted on Tuesday, July 11, 2006 - 12:59 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

Mark - there is no value placed on debate or conversation that I can see these days. I like to debate different ideas and learn new points of view, but there are usually two problems. The first is that others tend to assume I haven't studied a subject I'm commenting on and the second is that they haven't studied the subject they're commenting on.
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susi t learn
Senior Member
Username: etsi

Post Number: 13711
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Tuesday, July 11, 2006 - 1:55 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

morgaine

i'd like to add one...

i suspect most people, even those considered open-minded, have a little ego in them that 'needs' to be right.

it's very hard to be objective and i've known few people who were truly so.

i'll tell you my side, and i'll politely listen to your side...(but i know I'M right).

therefore, some tend to keep telling you their opinion i guess, hoping sooner or later you'll cave and say, 'why yes! you're correct!'

they 'own' their opinion.
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Mark
Senior Member
Username: mark

Post Number: 2237
Registered: 2-2001
Posted on Tuesday, July 11, 2006 - 4:03 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

This may be the key problem with society today.
If you ask logical questions, to clarify what's being said, most folks think you're challenging their right to their opinion, or calling them stupid - or attacking them!

If these people went into a clothing store and without thinking about it, just took the first shirt off the rack and tried to buy it, and asked the clerk "what do you think?",
and the sales clerk - striving to do the best job he/she could for the customer asked questions ("Care to try it on? Want to see some other styles or colors? where do you plan on wearing this shirt?")
would the customer think that the clerk was insinuating he had no sense of style?
Probably.
He'd most likely insist on buying the ugly thing, stalk out of the store in a huff, and then spend the next few months trying to convince himself that the shirt was the best possible choice he could have made - or, failing that, curse the dumb salesclerk for selling him that rotten shirt.

Anything's better than taking responsibility for your own decisions, and heaven forbid you should have to get serious enough about life to actually use your own judgement to examine your possibilities when it's so much easier to blame somebody else for your choices, usually when it's too late to do anything about changing them.

This kind of intolerance is all so preventable ...and it will lead to our downfall.
Who benefits by convincing people that thoughtless opinions are equal to careful thought?
Those who would control our hearts and minds, of course.
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Morgaine
Advanced Member
Username: morgaine

Post Number: 209
Registered: 6-2006
Posted on Wednesday, July 12, 2006 - 10:32 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

Susi - I think you are right about each of us thinking we're right. I find that the difference is in whether people will admit they might be wrong. That's an element of abstract thinking that most of the population lacks, which makes them dangerous.

Mark, you're hitting on the process, too. We each have expectations. As humans, these expected patterns and behaviors make us feel comfortable and secure - our ideas give structure to the seeming chaos that surrounds us. When we are confronted with something outside the expected pattern, it stops us short. A person with abstract thought will usually examine new data and find a place for it in their expected patterns. People stuck at the concrete thinking levels - which is most people - will react with anger, fear or ridicule and reinforce their own pattern to themselves by labeling the source of new information as inferior or deviant. For these people, anything that deviates from the expected pattern threatens their very existence, because they aren't open to incorporating new information. They don't differentiate between the map and the territory, so they will deny the possibility of other maps that work just as well in describing the landscape.
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Patricia Davis
Senior Member
Username: patricia

Post Number: 2379
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Wednesday, July 12, 2006 - 2:15 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

It keeps coming back to Critical Thinkers vs. True Believers. If you're raised to question authority, then it comes naturally to examine new ideas closely and to ask the questions necessary to determine whether or not you will adopt them as part of the way you view reality.

If you're raised to think that questioning authority is rude and disrespectful, then you'll see what is ordinary discussion as an attack upon the authority disbursing the idea.

As long as we continue to avoid teaching critical thinking in our schools, those people unfortunate enough to be born into 'strict father frames' homes will be unlikely to develope it on their own. I managed to do so, but only because my survival depended upon it. Left to my own devices, I would most likely have become one of the Herd, resentful of the activists who ask interminable questions of authority.

That fact keeps me more humble than I would otherwise be and requires of me that I show patience even when True Believers make me nuts -- for, there, but for the grace of God/dess, go I.....
"When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." Sinclair Lewis 1935
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Morgaine
Advanced Member
Username: morgaine

Post Number: 219
Registered: 6-2006
Posted on Thursday, July 13, 2006 - 12:19 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

Patricia - that's it exactly. I'm doing everything I know to get people to see that important rift in thought processes. Maybe if people know it's there, they'll pull themselves into the critical thinking mode.
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Mark
Senior Member
Username: mark

Post Number: 573
Registered: 2-2001
Posted on Thursday, July 13, 2006 - 6:58 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

I'm reading about Galilleo and his confrontation with The Inquisition...He had his observations about celestial motion, he had the math that worked to predict the motions of the planets around the Sun, he delayed making his findings public - not because he was afraid of the Inquisition but because he worried about being laughed at. When the crunch came, and he was forced to recant his claims to a Heliocentric reality, it turned out that the Church didn't care if he had theories about the solar system, and that his proofs really worked - what did rankle the powers-that-be was that he claimed his ideas were the only true description of what went on in the universe. That was the exclusive domain of The Church, you see. They allowed all the theorizing you wanted UNTIL Galilleo stated that his arrangement was Reality. They said that all ideas are only in men's minds, and had no relationship to the created physical world, and so, any number of theories could exist to explain any phenomena, since they were only the fanciful fabrication of the faulty human imagination.

Of course, they didn't apply that standard to themselves and their religion, but...

And so, what he was forbidden to do was to look at the night sky and explain it in terms of his heliocentric theory!

So, I think people today are still afraid to consider their own thoughts - or even examine them for truth - preferring instead to defer to some "authority" be it church, politicians, authority figures of all stripes, and wind up almost apologizing for having the temerity to think for themselves and worse - to compare what they see with their experiences to gauge for truth and publically express what they find.
It's almost as if people actually have "nothing to think with", believe that they are born wise, that they are perfect just the way they are, that the majority is always right, and conformity will lead to truth by some force of the collective (lack of) imagination.
Ancient history?
Nope. It is as if The Age of Reason never happened and it's The Middle Ages all over again, folks.

Rulers and serfs - slaves and pharaohs.
Guess which ones we're supposed to be.
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Morgaine
Advanced Member
Username: morgaine

Post Number: 232
Registered: 6-2006
Posted on Thursday, July 13, 2006 - 10:23 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

Mark - those who accept unquestioned external authority are frightened by education and critical thought. They see the world so literally that they feel the act of questioning threatens their survival. It isn't a logical response because they aren't using reason.

We are facing another Dark Age if we don't stop the current Christian assault on science. We have to find ways to wake people up.
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Mark
Senior Member
Username: mark

Post Number: 574
Registered: 2-2001
Posted on Friday, July 14, 2006 - 7:37 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

I think folks who have never really been through some dark-night-of-the-soul experience themselves- and who get all their ideas second-hand - are "practicing" dealing with imaginary fears pertaining to things that don't matter to them, personally - as if by thinking about it, no, believing it, they are making themselves immune to it. These types live in a world of thought-forms and suppositions sustained by their beligerance without any real cohesiveness at all - no "belief system" there, and they flatter themselves by thinking so. They kneel before their own limitations thinking that if they don't know it , it must be god.

I think such folks need a good scare. And what would scare them more than having undeniable proof that their awakened self is talking to them, and there is nothing to hide behind anymore?
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Morgaine
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Username: morgaine

Post Number: 248
Registered: 6-2006
Posted on Friday, July 14, 2006 - 7:12 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

Interesting idea, Mark. I've been grappling with the problem of what it's going to take to get people to move from concrete thinking into abstract thought. Maybe a scare is the way to do it. It might force them to stretch.
The road of excess leads to the palace of wisdom. -- Wm. Blake
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Nandor
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Username: doug_irvine

Post Number: 45
Registered: 5-2006
Posted on Saturday, July 15, 2006 - 2:43 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

Reading this thread twigged my memory of another case where someone was mentally ill and had strange visions. His name was Dr. W.C. Minor and he was the mad man in Simon Winchester's book The Professor and the Mad Man, the story of the making of the Oxford English dictionary. He was definitely unbalanced. He shot and killed a man in what he thought was self defence and later while in custody at Broadmoor he castrated himself with a pen knife. But still the form his mental illness took is interesting. The following are various quotes from The Professor and the Mad Man that high light the curious form of his illness.


" ... at the time he was admitted he had detailed awareness of the happenings that plagued him at night-always at night. Small boys, he believed, were put up in the rafters above his bed; they came down when he was fast asleep, chloroformed him, and then forced him to perform indecent acts-though wether with them as boys, or wether with the women of whom he dreamed constantly, the record keepers were never clear. He claimed he would awaken with abrasions around his nose and mouth where they had clamped the gas bottle; the bottoms of his pajama legs were always damp, he said, indicating he had been forced to walk in a stupor all night."

"...though (Dr. Minor), appears rational by day and occupies himself with painting and playing the flute. But at night he barricades the door of his room with furniture, and connects the handle of the door with the furniture using a piece of string, so he will awaken if anyone trys to enter the bedroom..."

" In 1878 technology becomes part of the villainy. "Electric currents from unseen sources are passed through his body, he insists. Electric buttons are placed on his forehead, he is placed in a wagon and trundled across the country side." He was taken as far afield as Constantinople, he told an attendant once, where he is made to perform lewd acts in public. "They are", he declared, "trying to make a pimp of me!"

Does this scenario seem familiar or am I reading to much into it.
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susi t learn
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Username: etsi

Post Number: 2155
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Saturday, July 15, 2006 - 1:59 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

here's my take...perhaps this man is a pedophile or has great shame about his sexual proclivities to the point of burying them and coming up with an explanation so he won't have to take responsibility? called denial.
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Nandor
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Username: doug_irvine

Post Number: 46
Registered: 5-2006
Posted on Saturday, July 15, 2006 - 2:59 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

I don't think he was an actual pedophile. He and his family were part of a very strict Protestant sect and he was a highly respected army surgeon who served in the Civil War. He seemed very rational during the day and besides his hobbies, he was a great help in the creating of the Oxford English Dictionary. It was at night that his problems occurred. It is possible that his repressed sexuality was leaking from his subconscious into his conscious mind through dreams. He then found that the form these dreams took so repugnant to him that he lost his sanity.
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Morgaine
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Username: morgaine

Post Number: 268
Registered: 6-2006
Posted on Sunday, July 16, 2006 - 11:30 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

Sounds more likely that the man was the victim of sexual abuse and possibly schizophrenic. He must have suffered horribly. In those days they didn't have medicines to alleviate symptoms as we do now. At least he was able to make a contribution to the world. One of the worst things about mental illness is that it can steal one's potential.
The road of excess leads to the palace of wisdom. -- Wm. Blake
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Stephen in AZ
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Username: stephenm

Post Number: 851
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Saturday, August 26, 2006 - 5:00 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

Just stopping by...
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Hale
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Username: hale

Post Number: 132
Registered: 7-2006
Posted on Monday, September 04, 2006 - 2:46 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

Patricia,

way up the thread......your skunk works mention put a shiver down my spine. I am in the dc area and I met one of those guys! What got me most about him was that he handed me his card and it had a list of things that you just don't put on your business card if you are into that crap. I had it in the shop for a long while until it got swept away with a bunch of other junk.

He was in the upper levels of the military. His card indicated he was cross agency. Little balding guy, compact, and sort of geeky in a white bread way. Monochromatic. This place crawls with these folks and I cringe when I think about it. I can't wait for when I finally get to move outa here.
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Patricia Davis
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Username: patricia

Post Number: 10591
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Monday, September 04, 2006 - 2:30 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

Hale, that's fascinating. I suspect that most people who self-identify as alien abductees have encountered these people not once, but many, many times. Your geeky guy was more open about it than most are, but they come in multiple flavors. The netherworld of intel ops is no where near as simple/monolithic as it's made out to be in movies or books. There are people who are only tangentially connected. In fact, there are far more of them than there are officially employed agents.

The CIA "minder" I had in the late 1970's-early 80's is a good example--he'd spent his whole adult life working as a mercenary, an independent contractor. I was only able to find that out because a local police detective I knew well had an FBI friend who was able to look the guy up on a classified list and verify it. He was more secretive than the guy you met, but that may merely reflect the nature of the work he did (military too, but combat).

OTOH, there was a strange guy who hung around the fringes of the science fiction community for years who I eventually learned was "connected" intel-wise. Had I not been hanging out with pro writers, though, I'd never have found that out. The guy was very circumspect. He wouldn't even talk to me about intel work for the novel I was writing until a well-known author personally vouched for me.

Then he let me take him to lunch and pick his brain for info, but the more he pried out of me about my book, the more silent he became and *immediately* afterward he literally vanished from fandom. I later found out that my book's heroine is actually a Delta alter of mine (a paramilitary assassin, basically) and I suspect that this guy knew enough about the trauma-based mind control programs that he recognized what she really was pretty quickly. His questions were very odd-sounding to me at the time, since I was totally naive about MC. He obviously didn't want any entanglements with program people at all, so he split.

When your geeky guy met you, he must have had some reason for being as open as he was on that card. My guess is that he had a couple of cards and most people probably never saw that one. Any idea why he might have given it to you?

(Message edited by Patricia on September 04, 2006)
"When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." Sinclair Lewis 1935
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Hale
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Username: hale

Post Number: 134
Registered: 7-2006
Posted on Monday, September 04, 2006 - 4:21 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

I kinda feel a little funny talking about this in the open like this, just because I know where he lives. My kids go to school with children whose parents are involved in govt agencies, and it is simply not talked about. It gets odd when I talk to a parent about what it is I do, and when it comes time for me to ask them what they do in their job, it's a one-liner. Secrecy: it's what's for dinner.

I was approached by this guy at a craft fair. He was interested in my work. He wanted to give my work as a gift to a few people. Because I had sold out of the pieces he saw between one pass and the next, he had to order the work, which put us into an orbit for a certain period of time, shall we say.

At this point, Clinton was still in office. I engaged him in discussion about the state of affairs, knowing by this time that he was involved in something I feel sheepish about saying exactly (anyone watching could make a connection pretty quick, you see---high level military). We actually chatted about what this thing was that he did, while the other things I knew not to broach since they were obviously "black." He had a very clear and definative opinion of the President and did not mind expressing himself as to exactly how he felt. He seemed to feel that an act of fellatio and lying about it was worse than killing civillians (which is what he is indirectly involved in just now, I am sure).

My take on the whole business card thing was that it was a point of pride, and that probably he was more high level and as such was not directly involved in the black stuff. I get the gut feeling that he helped to coordinate things between agencies and contractors. No reason for my thinking this except why else would you have all that stuff on your card, you know?
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Patricia Davis
Senior Member
Username: patricia

Post Number: 10596
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Monday, September 04, 2006 - 6:48 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

Fascinating. I think you're correct about why he did it, too. You were a known quantity and not likely to reveal his identity. The people way up on the intel food chain, like scientists, really DO feel quite removed from what happens to people like me who are at the very bottom of the food chain and are the guinea pigs in their testing process. They have tendencies toward self-righteousness and may even, as my own scientist/handler does, to see themselves as really being magnanimous do-gooders who are deserving of recognition which of course they will never receive--!

I don't need to tell you that I most emphatically do NOT share their opinion of themselves
"When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." Sinclair Lewis 1935