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Morgaine
Intermediate Member
Username: morgaine

Post Number: 102
Registered: 6-2006
Posted on Thursday, June 29, 2006 - 8:17 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

Lab - those people are scary and there are more of them than people imagine. For every one that marches, there are a thousand hiding in plain sight. They're a big part of shrub's base. That's why I know they're blowing smoke about Condoleeza running for pres. It will never happen - their racist base would implode.

Thomas- you are right. Secrecy is essential to getting away with abuses of power. They want to maintain the power structure because they're at the top of it, and they're increasingly successful in moving resources and wealth upward in the hierarchy.

People who don't go along with the "program" - and that's exactly what it is, psychological programming- threaten the power structure. They are terrified of an informed, involved public because it will be the end of their thievery.

Shame is an important element of their power. People won't fight and die to make money for Halliburton, but if you make them think they're defending their families, they'll do just that.

Sexual repression is essential, too, which is why the Republican's are conducting a war on sex. You just can't whip a person into a righteous, homicidal fervor for "god" and country if s/he's just had an orgasm. You need Puritans if you want to conduct an inquisition, and they need to be uptight, scared, and all revved up with no place to go.

Independent thinking is the bane of the power structure. People who can think for themselves question authority, and they need their authority to go unquestioned. Heaven knows their ideas won't bear the weight of the most casual scrutiny, so they need to keep people stupid and afraid.

I just hope enough people wake up in time to turn it all around.
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Thomas
Senior Member
Username: thomas_j_veil

Post Number: 1790
Registered: 3-2006
Posted on Thursday, June 29, 2006 - 10:15 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

There is NOTHING disgusting about "being gay or lesbian." But the ability to get people to THINK that there is remains a "tool" of control by those who use "sexual repression" as a means of manipulation.

That's one reason "spying on gays" is a routine practice of the Pentagon.


quote:

Pentagon Spying on Gays More Widespread
2006-06-28

By Bob Roehr

Pentagon surveillance of domestic activities is supposed to be illegal, but that hasn’t stopped the Department of Defense from carrying out such activity in the name of the war on terror. Its definition apparently includes gays.

The latest batch of documents, received on June 22, suggests that the program was more widespread than originally believed.



Here's a link to one story about how the Pentagon continues to spy on persons of homosexual orientation.
"Question what's real. Question who's real."
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TheLabRat
Advanced Member
Username: thelabrat

Post Number: 496
Registered: 1-2006
Posted on Friday, June 30, 2006 - 12:10 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

This is a sore spot, and a concern for me, because at least 3 members of my family are gay or at least bisexual, including my cousin who died in 2000, right after my mother, and my uncle who just died.

It's always been an "issue" and "concern" in the family, but the times are getting even more dangerous.

Also, my surviving cousin (the executor of my uncle's estate) is "also" gay, but he is remaining in the closet and playing straight. He is about to be married to a woman, for the first time, at age 40.

With that last exception, he is literally following in my uncle's footsteps, having been mentored from graduation personally BY my uncle. This includes following in my uncle's exact career footsteps.

My uncle also lived a closeted life, for the most part.....that's if you don't count his highly developed intelligence, artistic ability and pursuit, musical tastes and constant devoted involvement in theatre, and the fact that he never even dated, much less married, a woman, and, apparently, never had a "always-present" companion.. (But, he travelled a LOT!)

Hate to use a cliche'....but it's true.

Plus, when I was in my early 20's into my 30's, I had close friends who were gay. These were, for the most part, people I had not known in school, but met through work and social situations.

(Yeppers....there was a time...... when I had "a life"!)

That's not to mention any of my other "undesirable" associations, or my lifestyle, activities, etc.!

So, I think about that....a lot.


On a slight tangent for a moment, I had an interesting thing happen a bit ago.

OK, we talk a lot about mass mind control on the most basic level, the media.

For context, consider how, because of advertising, we all collectively recognize the "bars" icon or symbol, that represents reception on your cell phone. A NEW ICON!

So that, that "image" will always call to mind, cell phone reception!.

(You know, since I only recently got a cell phone, it was a while after that icon became ubiquitous, before I even really knew what it represented, probably because I often turn the volume down during commercials!)

So anyway....I was sitting out under my tree a while ago. I have three different wind chimes hanging from limbs, and my chair next to the trunk of the tree, so that I view the chimes, my garden, etc.

Well, you know how wind chimes' tubes are different lengths, to produce the different notes?

Well, it just so happened that my chimes are hanging "the same", so that what I saw was three sets of the "bars", and I immediately began hearing (silently) the slogan, "more bars in more places..."!!!



No, I don't mean I was "hearing things", but that the image presented by the chime tubes being all lined up just alike, was SO LIKE the "bars" symbol, that it automatically triggered me to remember and "relive" the advertising in my mind!

It might be that you "had to be there", but I have a feeling, you understand what I am pointing out here!

So many levels and degrees...and "justifications" for mind control.
"In the end, only kindness matters."
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Thomas
Senior Member
Username: thomas_j_veil

Post Number: 1795
Registered: 3-2006
Posted on Friday, June 30, 2006 - 12:30 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

Advertising is certainly an attempt to influence, if not even "control" minds ("More bars in more places."); Whitley Strieber no doubt understands that fact better than most, since at one time he was a successful advertising executive in New York City. That may have been one reason he chose to leave the business for his real gift: writing.

Thousands of sensory impulses pass through our grid of perception each moment, and most of those are non-verbal, even unconsciously perceived (as you are doubtless aware, since you noticed the similarity between your chimes and the cellualr "bars" from advertising).

As modern human tastes continue to hunger for more and more sensory stimulation, many people are becoming more and more susceptible to the unconscious gravity of subliminal messages, making them continually less "aware" that they are being influenced.

Sometimes it makes one wonder just how "original" even ones so-called "original thoughts" actually are.

(Message edited by thomas_j_veil on June 30, 2006)
"Question what's real. Question who's real."
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TheLabRat
Advanced Member
Username: thelabrat

Post Number: 500
Registered: 1-2006
Posted on Friday, June 30, 2006 - 1:11 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

"Whitley Strieber no doubt understands that fact better than most, since at one time he was a successful advertising executive in New York City. That may have been one reason he chose to leave the business for his real gift: writing."

Absolutely!

I know I have mentioned about my father's career in radio, then TV. He began as a DJ, then became a local TV news anchor, where he stayed for about 8 years. Then he moved up through news director, then abruptly changed course, and went into the advertising department.

That aspect (the money) then remained his focus for the rest of his career, as he moved up through sales, middle management, station manager, General manager, then GM & Exec. VP. He retired at 55.

So, because of that, plus the fact that I ended up working for 3 different newspapers (sold advertising for 2 of them....which I HATED) for most of my working life, I have grown up with more understanding and awareness of "the media" than a lot of people. And I see what happened to my father's values very clearly.

The only thing about being a "journalist" that mattered to him, was the "fame" and the prestige. He was more interested in the money.

And, by the way: interestingly, my father SAYS that after he graduated high school, and BEFORE he went into the AIR FORCE, he wanted to become a State or National Park or Forest Ranger!!!!

But he, instead, became an Air Force broadcaster, where he earned the FIRST radio broadcaster's license ever given to someone his age (17) in the state, as well as being one of very few in the nation his age at that time.

Hmmmmm. Interesting change of aspirations while in the Air Force, IMO.


I agree that we are so BOMBARDED with input now, on so many levels! Of course, a big part of that is by design.

"Sometimes it makes one wonder just how "original" even ones so-called "original thoughts" actually are."

Oh, you've got that right! And I'm not just talking about "advertising"!

(And neither are you!)
"In the end, only kindness matters."
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Thomas
Senior Member
Username: thomas_j_veil

Post Number: 1797
Registered: 3-2006
Posted on Friday, June 30, 2006 - 1:14 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post


"Question what's real. Question who's real."
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Morgaine
Intermediate Member
Username: morgaine

Post Number: 113
Registered: 6-2006
Posted on Friday, June 30, 2006 - 2:12 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

Military training is pure mind control. They cut off your hair and dress you all alike so you are no longer an individual. Then they break you down physically and violently punish any type of non-conformity.

Then they plug in the personality they want. My dad was in the army and I worked on a Navy base so I've learned to recognize the "military" personality - it stays with all of them.

I don't think people are craving more sensory input. In fact, I think we're starting to see breakdowns in humans from to much input. That's the Big Buzz - so much flying at you that you can't process it, so you zone out.

The generation of kids growing up right now will be neurologically different from earlier generations in ways we can't even anticipate yet. We're already seeing attention deficits, increased violence, depression, apathy and lack of empathy. what are they going to be like after 20 years of overload?

Also, one could say no on has had an original thought since Shakespeare....

I often say there was no such thing as American literature until Edgar Allan Poe, and precious little since. I might be wrong - about Shakespeare - hee.

Just felt like lightening the mood - ha ha!
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TheLabRat
Senior Member
Username: thelabrat

Post Number: 506
Registered: 1-2006
Posted on Friday, June 30, 2006 - 5:07 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

I think I know what Thomas was getting at is that there is so much emphasis on having, buying, and "entertaining" oneself with lots of stuff, IN ORDER to zone out to reality.

But with the high-tech and/or mind-controlling forms of toys and/or entertainment used today, combined with all the other bombardments we talk about, they don't realize their escapes are their controllers. The are asleep to what is happening to them.

On the other hand, there are plenty of US, who shun any additional stimulation.

I crave only certain "organic" stimulations, like music, nature, my animals, and the stimulation I find here! But even more, I crave peace and quiet! I am so overly sensitive to stimulus, that my mother called me "Princess & The Pea" all my life!

Morgaine, I see that you have not missed my point about my father's change during his military service, and beyond!
"In the end, only kindness matters."
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Thomas
Senior Member
Username: thomas_j_veil

Post Number: 1821
Registered: 3-2006
Posted on Saturday, July 01, 2006 - 12:15 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

I'm still trying to find an answer to this question: Has there ever been a successful prosecution—even an attempted one—regarding ANY of these mind control abuses by our government?

Since the FACT of these abuses is indisputable, why aren't more people asking IF any of the perpetrators have been prosecuted—and IF they haven't, WHY NOT? Aren't people at least wondering?

I sure as hell am. It seems to me that these crimes are crying out for justice.

If we can hold Catholic priests accountable—as we should—for the crimes some of them have committed against children, why can we not hold "mind control" perpetrators accountable—especially since, as we have seen, these operations continue to this present day?
"Question what's real. Question who's real."
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Morgaine
Intermediate Member
Username: morgaine

Post Number: 123
Registered: 6-2006
Posted on Saturday, July 01, 2006 - 2:33 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

Thomas - I don't believe so. There might have been a sacrificial lamb or two along the way, but the people in charge are still in charge. Most of this took place during Bush the elders tenure wit the CIA;

He's the reason they won't release the documents on Kennedy. How do you think the black voters in this country would react if they knew he orchestrated the assassination of the one President who actually did anything for them?
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Thomas
Senior Member
Username: thomas_j_veil

Post Number: 1825
Registered: 3-2006
Posted on Saturday, July 01, 2006 - 12:58 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

I think you're right. It just seems strange as can be to me that people haven't DEMANDED criminal prosecutions of these demons.

But that may be just testimony to how "mind controlled" our American populace really is.

If an "authority figure" says so… well, it MUST be true, right? And that's about the level of cognitive reasoning in this country.

Please…

(Message edited by thomas_j_veil on July 01, 2006)
"Question what's real. Question who's real."
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Patricia Davis
Senior Member
Username: patricia

Post Number: 10281
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Saturday, July 01, 2006 - 3:02 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

Since the people perpetrating these human rights violations have had a lot of time, high-level connections/influence and a ton of money to cover their tracks, the court challenges here in the US have been few (Cathy O'Brien's attempts to regain control of her daughter's life come to mind). But in Canada, Gail Kastner successfully went after the CIA for their backing of Dr. Ewan Cameron's ghastly MKULTRA experiments just recently (2004?) and a while back, in 1988, Val Orlikow forced the CIA to settle out of court for $750,000. (those cases may be connected, but the sources I've found for them make them seem separate).

If you look at my own history or that of party ghost/galageist (Witness thread), with all the indications of mind control program involvement that we've managed to accumulate (after nearly 60 years of exploitation), there simply aren't enough solid, provable facts upon which to base a lawsuit. The same goes for other US and Canadian survivors, too--Sue Ford, Beth Goobie, Kathleen Sullivan, and Carol Rutz, among many, many others.

The extremely high level of secrecy and the destruction of relevant historical documents by CIA officials make such a suit nearly impossible to bring at all. And even if a survivor can find a lawyer willing to take them on, all the government has to do is to evoke the National Security Act of 1947 to close down the case. This happened to O'Brien a number of times in her fight against her daughter's court-ordered incarceration. She even learned that an edict was enforced that *forbade the mention of GHW Bu$h's name in her daughter's presence* within the mental institutions where she was held for many years--!

When the players in an already deeply covert program happen to be immensely powerful politicians, you're basically tilting at windmills to prove that the programs existed, let alone are on-going The congressional Church Committee hearings showed how difficult it was to get program participants to testify even in closed session inquiries that took place much closer in time to the programs in question. Now that many of the witnesses are dead and the perps have vastly improved their concealment methods, chances of a successful judicial prosecution are slim.
"When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." Sinclair Lewis 1935
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Thomas
Senior Member
Username: thomas_j_veil

Post Number: 1831
Registered: 3-2006
Posted on Saturday, July 01, 2006 - 3:10 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

Thank you, Patricia; that was very informative. I appreciated reading it.
"Question what's real. Question who's real."
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Thomas
Senior Member
Username: thomas_j_veil

Post Number: 1835
Registered: 3-2006
Posted on Saturday, July 01, 2006 - 5:54 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

When one thinks about it, "labels" are tools of control, as well.

Especially when improperly applied.

For all the good mental health care workers (psychiatrists, psychologists, psychotherapists, and counselors) do on a regular basis, one should be careful about the "categories" and "labels" that are sometimes used to DEFINE people—and the thinking of those people.

As we have seen—perhaps most clearly in Colin Ross's article on MK-ULTRA—major portions of the psychiatric establishment itself was (one wonders if it possibly still is) involved HEAVILY in the "mind control" experimentation on modern Americans.


quote:

The participation of psychiatrists and medical schools in mind control research was not a matter of a few scattered doctors pursuing questionable lines of investigation. Rather, the mind control experimentation was systematic, organized, and involved many leading psychiatrists and medical schools. The mind control experiments were interwoven with radiation experiments, and research on chemical and biological weapons. They were funded by the CIA, Army, Navy, Air Force, and by other agencies including the Public Health Service and the Scottish Rite Foundation. The psychiatrists, psychologists, neurosurgeons, and other contractors conducting the work were imbedded in a broad network of doctors, and much of the research was published in medical journals. The climate was permissive, supportive, and approving of mind control experimentation.

Project "Bluebird" by Colin A. Ross, M.D.



Since this is the case, it seems to me that one should be careful about the "labels" applied to individuals regarding whether they are "mentally healthy" or "mentally ill"—as if those were the only two possible choices available. (Health: physical, mental, and spiritual health is a continuum, and few are the PERFECT picture of health on either end of the spectrum.)

Since the psychiatric establishment itself (and many a practitioner within it) has been hideously "ill" during its own history, great care should be taken, in my opinion, before "buying into" the labels that sometimes separate—and even cripple—individual lives, even predominantly "healthy" ones.

Many, if not most, psychiatrists, for example, are adherents to the "materialist paradigm," the still prevailing (amazingly) worldview that posits that "reality" IS "material"—and only that. As a result, such a worldview sees many of the subjects regularly discussed on this website (and others) as "unreal"—and those who seriously consider them to be at best "ill-informed" and at worst simply "ill." This is one of the reasons the late John E. Mack, M.D. (the former chairman of the Department of Psychiatry at Harvard University AND an "abduction" researcher) was deemed so "heretical" to the establishment. In fact, because of this prejudice, many perfectly healthy people who have had "anomalous experiences" would be (and have been) judged to be "mentally ill."

Of course such a "diagnosis" is complete rubbish in such cases, one that serves further only to hurt, and not to heal.

An unfortunate label, unfortunately applied to some unfortunate—and completely "normal"—people who have had it "applied" to them for some of the reasons mentioned here.

And SINCE none wants to have the label "mentally ill" applied ("affixed" really) to them or to their lives, MOST people remain silent about their experiences, when those experiences don't fit comfortably into the materialist paradigm. This can be an unhealthy choice many people feel forced to make, as they suffer alone and in silence believing themselves to be unique, even "odd;" of course, those who have had anomalous experiences are NOT alone: there are many, MANY of us. And most of us are perfectly fine, thank you very much.

Labels and their misuse: more "tools" in the possession of the comparative few who seek to control the minds—and actions—of perfectly ordinary American citizens.
"Question what's real. Question who's real."
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TheLabRat
Senior Member
Username: thelabrat

Post Number: 520
Registered: 1-2006
Posted on Sunday, July 02, 2006 - 1:38 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

MKULTRA

"Most conspiracy researchers are familiar with the CIA's mind control program MKULTRA. It was led by creepy scientist-spook Dr. Sidney Gottlieb, who testified before the same subcommittee only after receiving a grant of immunity from criminal prosecution."



Also, using lots of private and public institutions, and private contractors, the gubmint escapes responsibility, and no one is prosecuted.

(Message edited by thelabrat on July 02, 2006)
"In the end, only kindness matters."
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Thomas
Senior Member
Username: thomas_j_veil

Post Number: 1840
Registered: 3-2006
Posted on Sunday, July 02, 2006 - 1:58 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

And that's what really sends me, TheLabRat. Sidney Gottlieb, sadist of all sadists (if ever there WAS ONE), had "assistance."

I mean, he didn't do this all by himself. He had lab technicians, assistants, associates, underlings, overlings--HELL, he probably even had CATERERS for Pete's sake! Amazingly, all of them somehow managed to avoid prosecution.

But that's standard practice for our government, isn't it? "Deny." "Obfuscate." And when finally found out? "Apologize."

Just like all the accomplices in the Kennedy Assassination, the Gulf of Tonkin, Vietnam, 9/11--and every other damned conspiracy ever foisted on the American People as "truth." Good Lord, some of 'em probably got promoted!

And "obedient" little Americans wonder why some of their fellow citizens don't trust their government…

For the record, I DON'T trust the United States Government. And I never will.

(Sorry for the rant.)
"Question what's real. Question who's real."
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nonmessy
New member
Username: nonmessy

Post Number: 48
Registered: 11-2005
Posted on Tuesday, July 04, 2006 - 8:57 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

I have a MKULTRA-mind control question. I have been wondering for quite some time if someone close to me may have been a victim. This person is a baby boomer, Dad was in the military for a while when he was very young, and has had some very strange incidences in his life where he wound up in places, with military or government folks, just seemingly out of the blue. He wouldn't fully recall what he did, or what happened, then be told his actions and scant memories were all just a result of a nervous breakdown. That would fly with me if the person in question had ever really appeared nuts or in fantasy-land during the 13 years I have known them, so I mentioned the idea that they might have been used in some sort of mind control scheme. He is imperfect and weird like me, sure! But in touch with reality.

I told him about this board and he asked me to post but wanted to remain strictly anonymous, but told me to ask if anyone here had heard of any mind control victims being present in Dallas, TX during the 1984 Republican convention. Particularly at the Reunion Plaza Hotel. He has some memories of being involved in something there at that time.

Thanks to all.
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Thomas
Senior Member
Username: thomas_j_veil

Post Number: 1920
Registered: 3-2006
Posted on Tuesday, July 04, 2006 - 9:13 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

Patricia Davis would be your best source there, Nonmessy; in spite of our personal differences, she knows better than perhaps anyone I can think of about MK-ULTRA and many of the things you are describing here.
"Question what's real. Question who's real."
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Patricia Davis
Senior Member
Username: patricia

Post Number: 10297
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Wednesday, July 05, 2006 - 1:29 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

Nope, sorry, but I was living on the East Coast back then or had just moved to Oakland, CA and had never been in Texas at all. And my knowledge of mind control history is spotty. But my general impression is that Texas has had a lot of mind control activity over the years--read Whitley's journal entry (in the archives) "The Boy in the Box". The presence in the state of the Bu$h clan and of so many Right Wing fascists and NeoNazis assured that. And there's a huge base of Conservatives in which to hide, since there's a marked tendency to not Question Authority in that population.

nonmessy, if I come across anything, I'll pass on the information to you. I wish that russ was still posting here....or Onesmartrat, since she currently lives in Texas and is a fund of knowledge on mind control history. When I Googled mind control and Texas, I turned up a number of hits on this page and an article by Dr. Colin Ross in which he said this:

It was in Texas that patients began to tell me stories about being victims of mind-control experiments as children. They described experiments in hospitals or laboratories, often on military bases. The experiments involved hypnosis, drugs, systematic physical and sexual abuse, and other techniques designed to create “alter personalities.”

[note: yes, I am aware that that article was published by the "Church of Scientology", but the information is accurate as far as I can tell--I've seen bits of it in other places completely unconnected to the cult over the last 2 years]

In another article, Ted Gunderson mentions Houston and Dallas,Texas numerous times and that 1984 convention, specifically, when discussing testimony made by children in the Franklin scandal:

Gary Caradori, investigator for the Nebraska State Legislature (killed in a suspicious plane explosion as detailed above), documented that the aunt of Eulice (Lisa) Washington said that the children in the Webb home said that they had been transported around the country several times, and that one of the children, possibly Lisa’s youngest sister, had kept a book of matches from Texas, where the Republican convention was held in 1984.
"When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." Sinclair Lewis 1935
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nonmessy
Junior Member
Username: nonmessy

Post Number: 51
Registered: 11-2005
Posted on Wednesday, July 05, 2006 - 3:19 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

I knew that convention was ringing a bell. My friend was an adult at the time, but found himself rather inexplicably there, perhaps in some sort of “security” capacity. There were a lot of weird things at that convention. I doubt he has read the “Franklin Conspiracy”, but I have, in other words he wouldn’t have pulled that convention place and date out of the air because of something he has investigated.

Thanks Patricia! I will do a bit of web searching.
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TheLabRat
Senior Member
Username: thelabrat

Post Number: 542
Registered: 1-2006
Posted on Thursday, July 06, 2006 - 3:50 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

Thomas, and all reading.....

I posted a link today, in the "Witness" thread, to Dr. Nick Begich's show in RBN today.

Extremely compelling.
"In the end, only kindness matters."
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Thomas
Senior Member
Username: thomas_j_veil

Post Number: 1996
Registered: 3-2006
Posted on Friday, July 07, 2006 - 2:37 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

Thanks, TheLabRat. I'll try and pick up on it. I've been pretty scatterbrained today, so… (Don't even think it! "Nothing unusual," is what she's thinkin', I'm sure. )

I'll listen to it in the morning hopefully; while I'm having my coffee.
"Question what's real. Question who's real."
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TheLabRat
Senior Member
Username: thelabrat

Post Number: 558
Registered: 1-2006
Posted on Saturday, July 08, 2006 - 8:57 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

TRIGGER WARNING!


History Channel documentary of CIA mind control:

History Channel Video


This is.....where I'm "coming from".
"In the end, only kindness matters."
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Thomas
Senior Member
Username: thomas_j_veil

Post Number: 2052
Registered: 3-2006
Posted on Saturday, July 08, 2006 - 9:21 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

I'm watching it right now. I find it MORE than a little "interesting" that it all started with the Malleus Maleficarum ("The Hammer of Witches"), which suggested ways to coerce people into confessing to witchcraft. The springboard for all these other horrors, including the Nazi experiments and MK-ULTRA.
"Question what's real. Question who's real."
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TheLabRat
Senior Member
Username: thelabrat

Post Number: 562
Registered: 1-2006
Posted on Saturday, July 08, 2006 - 9:38 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

Yes, Thomas, that stuck out for me, as well.

I hope Patricia will watch this, even if she has already seen it.

There were several very triggering images, as well as statements, for me in that video.

Felt sick to my stomach at the sight of the reel-to-reel tape recorder/player, for very specific reasons, even if I only have partial memories.

I also reacted intensely to the idea of being observed through a two-way mirror...or whatever it's called. Again, it triggered two different, specific memories, followed by a few "related" memories.

The images of old military hangars gets me big time, as do the images of New York City.

I am almost convinced that I underwent shock treatments/drug treatments against my will. But I will, apparently, never be able to prove it.

I have most of my medical records from birth on....at least, I have what "they" gave me.

But there is a bunch of "time" and records missing from what I was given.
"In the end, only kindness matters."
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Morgaine
Intermediate Member
Username: morgaine

Post Number: 192
Registered: 6-2006
Posted on Saturday, July 08, 2006 - 11:52 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

I wish I had seen that. I've been saying for a while that the government is taking cues from the Inquisitions. The principle of forfeiture, which has become s.o.p. in drug and organized crime cases, originated with the Witch Trials. Anyone who identified a heretic was rewarded with their property. Not many rich women left after that policy went into effect.
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TheLabRat
Senior Member
Username: thelabrat

Post Number: 567
Registered: 1-2006
Posted on Sunday, July 09, 2006 - 12:18 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

"I wish I had seen that."

Seen what, Morgaine? The History Channel documentary?

You can watch it from the link I provided!

(unless I am misunderstanding you....)
"In the end, only kindness matters."
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Morgaine
Advanced Member
Username: morgaine

Post Number: 202
Registered: 6-2006
Posted on Sunday, July 09, 2006 - 1:25 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

Yeah - I didn't catch that it was on line. I just woke up and I'm a little ditzy, I guess.
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Thomas
Senior Member
Username: thomas_j_veil

Post Number: 3123
Registered: 3-2006
Posted on Monday, August 14, 2006 - 3:08 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

Tonight on Coast to Coast AM, philosopher and paranormal investigator Jonathan Zap will discuss how mind parasites could be controlling the world through a variety of human phenomena from serial murders to religious fundamentalism.

Yep. There really may actually be "mind parasites"—and I'm not just talkin' about that English Lit teacher you had.
"Question what's real. Question who's real."
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Thomas
Senior Member
Username: thomas_j_veil

Post Number: 3805
Registered: 3-2006
Posted on Tuesday, September 12, 2006 - 8:28 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

Here's something that's pretty typical: experimentation on the American public.

According to an article on CNN.com today, the Air Force chief wants to test "high power" microwave "crowd control" devices on American citizens, before such devices are rolled out to the battlefield.

"If we're not willing to use it here against our fellow citizens, then we should not be willing to use it in a wartime situation," said Air Force Secretary Michael Wynne.

Hasn't this always been so—and most regrettably? When one looks at the history of MK-ULTRA, hasn't the United States Government always "tested" its control technology here at "home"? And usually on unwitting subjects?

And some say this sort of thing stopped back in the 1960's and '70's. If they're talking openly about doing this kind of thing now, what are they doing that they're NOT talking openly about?

Here's the article.
"Question what's real. Question who's real."
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hazel mclane
Advanced Member
Username: wordspeak

Post Number: 288
Registered: 2-2003
Posted on Sunday, September 17, 2006 - 9:15 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

just may be true.
i have someone close to me who has been experiencing head noise, that he says seems like radio or plane output. it hurts sometime. he has had it for quite a few years.
i have suggested many things and so far nothings helps except maybe it doesn't happen as often.
also, i awoke with the word randolph being spoken to me. a name, a town, i don't know. it came to mind later that it was maybe county,only because i know no one with that name, but there is acounty in north carolina by that name.
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slw
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Username: slw

Post Number: 496
Registered: 12-2002
Posted on Sunday, September 17, 2006 - 10:02 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

Hazel, There was a Randolph Air Force Base in San Antonio, TX but I think it's closed now.
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hazel mclane
Advanced Member
Username: wordspeak

Post Number: 289
Registered: 2-2003
Posted on Sunday, September 17, 2006 - 10:23 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

in that case slw. something screwy must be in the making.
when did they ever give up anything without a distress to us?
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slw
Advanced Member
Username: slw

Post Number: 497
Registered: 12-2002
Posted on Sunday, September 17, 2006 - 11:20 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

Sorry to give out incorrect information. I just googled Randolph Air Force Base and from what I found it appears to be open. It seems like there was another base there that closed. Whitley would know since San Antonio is his hometown.
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Thomas
Senior Member
Username: thomas_j_veil

Post Number: 3937
Registered: 3-2006
Posted on Sunday, September 17, 2006 - 11:36 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

It's hard to keep track; they've been closing a lot of bases lately, SLW.

Curiously, they've been trying to save $5.5 billion dollars over 20 years by doing this—what's strange is that they WASTE that much on a weekly basis in the War in Iraq!
"Question what's real. Question who's real."
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slw
Advanced Member
Username: slw

Post Number: 498
Registered: 12-2002
Posted on Sunday, September 17, 2006 - 11:53 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

As you can tell, I haven't been paying enough attention here. I just now read what the Air Force sec'y said in the link that Thomas gave. Statements like that give one the impression that the govn doesn't think of us as people but as chattel that can be experimented on. It does make one wonder what weapons have been tested on us.

I've had head noise for several years now. It's not so bad when I'm able to ignore it but if I think about it, it's continuous, never ceases. Maybe it's what's referred to as white noise. Mine is worse when I am on the computer it bothers me to the degree that it interferes with my concentration. There's not much telling what we've been exposed to.
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hazel mclane
Advanced Member
Username: wordspeak

Post Number: 306
Registered: 2-2003
Posted on Monday, October 02, 2006 - 10:41 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

mind control must be speeding up again, particular in schools.
why can't we find out about these evil unhuman things and lock them away?
old butthost bush is avowing now to get the hanky panky gays out of washington. he will need more than one ship and a room for himself. the pediphites will need at least one whole state.
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Thomas
Senior Member
Username: thomas_j_veil

Post Number: 4220
Registered: 3-2006
Posted on Tuesday, October 03, 2006 - 12:35 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

The idea of Bush equating "gay people" with "pedophiles" is simply silly—and cruel—just about what I would expect from someone of his obvious lack of depth, but ridiculous nonetheless.

The real perpetrators SHOULD BE locked away, but who will do it? The ones ultimately in charge of this nation's jail keys are some of the real perpetrators.
"Question what's real. Question who's real."
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Patricia Davis
Senior Member
Username: patricia

Post Number: 10693
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Thursday, October 05, 2006 - 4:59 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

Agreed. And even the ones who aren't affiliated directly with our government get away with their dirty tricks way too often. Each time one is outed, I wonder what worse crime is being covered up via the distraction. It appalls me how cynical I am about human decency.

BTW, there used to be some information online about all the extremely gay-sounding comments that $hrub has made over the years--I can't find my links to them, though. Some of my gay friends are positive he's deeply closeted/in denial and/or his Daddy long ago laid down the law to him about his orientation. When a man is heard to spew out as many gutter-mouthed insults to women as he has, it makes even me wonder about him. Did anyone else read Kitty Kelley's unathorized Bu$h family bio, with all the disgusting quotes from him said to people over the years?
"When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." Sinclair Lewis 1935
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buddie
Senior Member
Username: buddie

Post Number: 1805
Registered: 3-2006
Posted on Thursday, October 05, 2006 - 10:00 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

Pedophillia :-(
Qua da di
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Thomas
Senior Member
Username: thomas_j_veil

Post Number: 4515
Registered: 3-2006
Posted on Friday, October 13, 2006 - 8:27 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

Even though I created this thread, I had no idea concerning the tiger whose tail I had hold of. I'm sure that, in large measure, I still don't.

I just know a little bit more now than I did then.

Recently, I've been reading Peter Levenda's excellent first volume of Sinister Forces. He makes a point that has been made here on this site by mind control survivors over and over again, but I simply didn't understand what I was hearing: that the scope of the MK-ULTRA program (and other government-sponsored mind control programs) was so extensive, affecting so many thousands of American lives (if not more) that we cannot fully know what became of many of the survivors of these programs or what affect the mistreatment they endured had—either on them or on society at large.

I'm sorry that I did not have the ears to hear this fully, until now. It seems like a simple concept to grasp, but the weight of it eluded me. Again, to a degree that I cannot know even now, it probably still does elude me.

What became of all of these people? Some survivors obviously know that they were involved in such a program, but others—since one of the effects of this mistreatment was (often intentionally) to create amnesia and dissociation—simply don't know what has befallen them.

Of this latter group, are some of these the David Chapmans and John Hinkleys of this world? How many more are enduring ruined lives, which they simply cannot explain? Are some of them ticking time bombs that are going off all around us, but because of the secrecy and ridicule surrounding "mind control" we wonder collectively, "What got into this woman—or that man?"

How widespread is this issue across America? Can we ever know?

Some months back—somewhere in this thread, I think—I asked for "proof"; I pointed out what seemed to me at the time to be the lack of objective references being provided in some of the literature on this subject, references for some of the things mind control survivors remembered, but could not finally prove.

I now see how idiotic such a statement was on my part. That if there WERE such unassailable "proof," the survivors of this horror would themselves be beating down the doors of Congress and law enforcement demanding the justice that is rightfully due them. But "proof"—of the kind that would satisfy the snickering masses—remains elusive for some of this. (Although I do now see—and I do absolutely believe—that there IS enough proof, proof that would convince a jury, at the very least.) In 1972 Richard Helms, then Director of the CIA had the vast majority of such relevant documents destroyed in a massive file purge, when he saw the spectre of being "found out" looming ever closer.

How much I am sure that survivors (the ones who KNOW they are survivors) of these ghastly programs wish they could see these documents and study them, documents that I, in my "passionately dispassionate" questioning, seemed to demand.

To those I thoughtlessly invalidated in the process of my questioning back then, I see now that I need to apologize to you now. And I do apologize. I'm sincerely sorry that I did not understand your pain more, pain that I cannot fully conceive or in some cases even partially imagine.

Slowly, I am becoming more aware. All-too-slowly perhaps, but it is happening. At the very least, I am trying.
"Question what's real. Question who's real."
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Janey
New member
Username: janeye_trans

Post Number: 22
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Sunday, October 22, 2006 - 11:46 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

Hi Patricia

Could you please direct me to your butterfly picture? My memory is being held prisoner due to a bad cold and alergies . I can't find the link I should of checked it out right away but wasn't ready for a possible trauma trigger to blow up in my face .I'm sure I have probably missed something already said but I am wondering if my assumptions are correct you associate the monarch with a mind control trigger ? If so also wondering did you see the article on eyepod about it ? When I read it I was very alarmed about seeing the two ideas connected somewhere other than just in my imagination as I have some history with that animated image in my meditations and have to say it was a very bad trip . So I would like to see your picture see what resurfaces in myself from looking at if anything . I've got a nasty block put up to that image which sucks because I love butterflys .
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Patricia Davis
Senior Member
Username: patricia

Post Number: 10800
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Sunday, October 22, 2006 - 5:28 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

Hi, Janey--sorry you're in the clutches of a virus + allergies--ick! Here's the whole image (low-res, I apologize) and here's the crop showing her face closer up. I'm not sure whether my association of Monarch butterflies with mind control is my own or whether it came from my learning of that general name for the trauma-based programs, but I suspect the latter. Could you link to the article you mention that's on eyepod, please?
"When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." Sinclair Lewis 1935
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Janey
New member
Username: janeye_trans

Post Number: 25
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Sunday, October 22, 2006 - 6:30 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

Hi :-) I'm looking for the link now hopefully I can find it :-)
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Janey
New member
Username: janeye_trans

Post Number: 26
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Sunday, October 22, 2006 - 7:04 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

darn it ! can't find it anywhere on there now . It was so long ago when I saw it .
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Patricia Davis
Senior Member
Username: patricia

Post Number: 10806
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Monday, October 23, 2006 - 5:05 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

Well, if you stumble across it, post it here and I'll find it. I have hundreds of MC sites bookmarked, but some go astray, so I try to look at any that people here post links to.

BTW, Thomas, yesterday I sent one of my more determined "MC debunkers" at the BV to read your post just above--thank you for making it!
"When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." Sinclair Lewis 1935
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Da'an
Senior Member
Username: daan

Post Number: 1296
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Monday, October 23, 2006 - 5:58 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

lets hope he did
indeed take this
thread seriously.
this would be a
first...for him!
IMPERATOR CONSTANTINE WAS THE FIRST BYZANTINE
OF OLD ROMAN BLOODLINE, IN AUGUST ROMAN ANNALs
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Thomas
Senior Member
Username: thomas_j_veil

Post Number: 4751
Registered: 3-2006
Posted on Monday, October 23, 2006 - 6:28 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

Patricia Davis said:

quote:

BTW, Thomas, yesterday I sent one of my more determined "MC debunkers" at the BV to read your post just above--thank you for making it!



To be perfectly honest, it was my pleasure. When I learn something new, I view it as a triumph, even if it means that I was wrong before.

Thank you for your acknowledgement.
"Question what's real. Question who's real."
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Hale
Advanced Member
Username: hale

Post Number: 402
Registered: 7-2006
Posted on Tuesday, October 24, 2006 - 2:51 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

Depend on your gut, on your intuition, I say (if you are an MC victim trying to come to terms with things). This whole issue of MC is about trying to cover your tracks so the person messed with can't get at the info right away (perhaps never). Society wants to say "it is all in your head" which of course it is, but not in quite the way some would like to parrot.

Sometimes I think to get anywhere spiritually, emotionaly, you have to give yourself a long leash. Narrow minds rarely are able to take in the stuff that flits by on the periphery, and it's the periphery that often holds the most confounding things. Like those with narrow minds would understand just what I am saying, but I am sure a few of your probably know a little about it.

Trust your experience. It is the Self that is the final frontier. if you don't trust your experience, how can one ever be able to move forward in a constructive way in one's inner work? I don't say this as a criticism, but to point out that in these things, we really do have to handle ourselves with some flexibility and forgiveness. Great discoveries were never made by crossing familiar pathways. A ship in a harbor is safe, but that is not what ships are built for (said someone once).

Patricia, I hope you have gallery representation for your work. Your work is of high enough caliber to hang in the good places. Is the medium oil? I'd be documenting your work with medium format film and high res. digital If I were you (hope you do). Plenty of time is put into them, looks like. You never know when you will be asked for images for a book. You might even want to write your own book someday and have those images onhand for it.

After my exp. in the art field your work certainly stands out. Good luck with it.
"No Guru, no method, no teacher, Just you and I and nature"- Van Morrison
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Patricia Davis
Senior Member
Username: patricia

Post Number: 10812
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Wednesday, October 25, 2006 - 12:13 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

Thank you, Hale My subject matter and technique have made it very difficult to find gallery representation, unfortunately. What I do is not considered fine art, I've been told over and over. Even some of the more artsy cafes won't hang my work, calling it "illustration" even though it's not art directed or done for commission. So I show at science fiction/fantasy conventions and they buy everything I paint.

I've always shied away from painting the dark stuff, but with computer art, I find that I can get some of the images out at last. That's partly due to the fact that the alter I call The Painter (acrylics and alkyds) is no longer "in front" most of the time. She's very resistant to anything having to do with mind control and she was in front for most of my life. Our life.

I'm a bit more left-brain...just enough that I can do computer artwork. So between us, we're beginning to do art again after a decade-long dry spell when I was unable to figure out why I couldn't paint. It was because, well...*I* can't paint! *LOL* And so far, only one of her paintings, an unfinished one called "Lily's Window", has mind control as its focus. The Painter was very conflicted about doing it, but I'm so glad she did...it was a huge step for her.

I met up with a bunch of other survivors at the Rigorous Intuition board and was surpised to find that nearly all of us were artists. We work in different media and most of them are doing much more gut-wrenching stuff than I've attempted yet. I think I'm the only one with more than one personality doing art, though.

The problem with a survivor of mind control trusting their gut is that we've been messed with until it's very difficult for us to tell when it IS our gut. Our minds have a lot of different "voices" (even those like me who don't hear actual voices) and it's very difficult to tell who's talking and what their agenda really is. Some parts of us are feral and and primitive and some are quite evolved and spiritual--it can be like an unruly community of very disparate individuals with differing value systems and goals trying to work together. It's easier some days than others.
"When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." Sinclair Lewis 1935