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Southern Cross
Senior Member
Username: jolinda

Post Number: 1437
Registered: 1-2004
Posted on Wednesday, October 25, 2006 - 12:08 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

Dirk,
Breath anchors us in physical reality. It is the first thing that we do when we are born, and the last thing we do when we die. It echoes the the extremes of the duality of life.
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dirkwright
Senior Member
Username: dirkwright

Post Number: 1235
Registered: 2-2005
Posted on Wednesday, October 25, 2006 - 7:51 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

Well said SC! You're a very very wise woman. thanks for that. I suppose that's why rebirthing works so well and is also so mysterious. People have levitated during rebirthing sessions. People have had sparkling orbs of light appear above their chest during rebirthing. Many many healings have occuring because of rebirthing. I have found that doing that act is literally loving my self. The act of rebirthing is loving myself, isn't that amazing?
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Hale
Advanced Member
Username: hale

Post Number: 404
Registered: 7-2006
Posted on Wednesday, October 25, 2006 - 9:11 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

Jolinda,
no, I think I put that flavor of the Hun's in there just for you ;) But it does not matter, there have been so many bad chapters: pick one. They all tend to boil down to just a few things in the end. But the man Temujine, also known as Gengis Kahn, his dna is the most prevalent on the planet. He raped thousands of women.

Loving where you are very often is tied to loving yourself. If you are able to love each moment, it does not matter where you are. Could be that decisions made in the past as a younger person do not match the pattern of your heart now. Do you grow to fit into the shape or do you diverge and make hard decision? Not an easy one, I would think.

Until you love yourself, you can't truly love others. Or so we are told.


quote:

Once you understand a thing, you cannot learn it (obviously)
but you cannot understand a thing until you learn it.
Therefore, you only learn from what you don't understand.
...right?

How?




Once you understand a thing you can't learn it.....simply because you already HAVE learned it, as understanding implies a learning, by definition. And I'd say, yes, that you really only learn from that which you do not fully understand, and there are many paths for apprehending something in this reality. You don't put air into a full tire.
"No Guru, no method, no teacher, Just you and I and nature"- Van Morrison
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dirkwright
Senior Member
Username: dirkwright

Post Number: 1241
Registered: 2-2005
Posted on Wednesday, October 25, 2006 - 9:25 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

Yes, I agree, loving yourself is the highest thing you can do. Try this: when you look in the mirror, say "I love you" to yourself, either out loud our in your mind. Really feel the love for yourself when you gaze into your own eyes. No hiding either, let it all out there. That's just one way of loving yourself. Eventually, you realize that every breath you take, every beat of your heart, is loving yourself and of course your soulmate, who is yourself also. Loving yourself is the same as loving your soulmate, in other words. There is no greater passion than the passion between soulmates. The depth is just infinite, the compassion beyond comprehension, the love is just for ever and ever. The love shared by soulmates is the most loving intimate relationship one can have, and that is a beautiful and sacred thing. Loving your soulmate is loving God. It is a spiritual practice.
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nadm
Intermediate Member
Username: nadm

Post Number: 180
Registered: 9-2004
Posted on Wednesday, October 25, 2006 - 10:07 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

Hale, re your post 403, my view is much the same.

Dirk wrote:

"One thing I can say is that this process that I do once in a while, where I feel intense emotional pain and it is associated with a thought, is physically demanding. "

i agree. and keeping the lid on unhealed emotions also requires great energy, day and night. your comment that you emerge from processing such stuff stronger probably reflects this freeing up, among other effects.

SC, curiously, breathing is neither the first nor last act of this physical life, though it is mythologized as such, perhaps because it so easily lends itself to spiritual metaphor. i agree that it can serve as an anchor to physical reality, and the more conscious the connection the more it does so. on a purely physical level, though, one cannot draw a breath without the heart pumping. and the heart can beat long after the final breath.

i have sat vigil with loved ones as they passed. in the old days, before DNR orders and such, one had to be careful not to alert hospital personnel of a death until after the heart fully ceased beating, lest they take the presence of a heartbeat as cause to torture a body with resuscitation attempts.

the heart. the heart beats before we draw breath. it beats after we are done. it does not easily give up. a human heart will continue to beat even if removed from the body--not to be gross--if placed in the right electrolyte broth, because of what is called "automaticity" in its electrical and muscle activity.

for me, this too provides a spirit metaphor. i was told that the heart chakra is the seat of essential healing in our time. in other eras, other energy centers provided the central focus. but ours is heart healing.

some would say that all forms of earthly love, parent to child, between soulmates, etc, are but windows to divine connection. each has its own intimacy and profundity. and no other soul can be fully embraced until the self is also beloved.

And did you get what
you wanted from this life, even so?
I did.
And what did you want?
To call myself beloved, to feel myself
beloved on the earth.

~ Raymond Carver, "Late Fragment"
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Southern Cross
Senior Member
Username: jolinda

Post Number: 1439
Registered: 1-2004
Posted on Wednesday, October 25, 2006 - 10:26 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

Nadm
I agree. I should have been more specific. Of course the heart beats even before a baby is born. But once it's out, it needs to take its first breath. So I associate breath with a formal start of life outside the mother's body.
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dirkwright
Senior Member
Username: dirkwright

Post Number: 1244
Registered: 2-2005
Posted on Wednesday, October 25, 2006 - 10:41 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

The heart chakra is the seat of the soul. Mine has been glowing brightly for about 3 months now, ever since a very special event happened in my life.

The fetus actually "breaths" in the womb. It's lungs get exercise by breathing amniotic fluid. Rebirthing mimics this style of breathing, which some believe is part of the magic. Of course, I know what you mean SC. Your symbology has great power.
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Southern Cross
Senior Member
Username: jolinda

Post Number: 1441
Registered: 1-2004
Posted on Wednesday, October 25, 2006 - 9:33 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

What do any of you think that the process of "learning" involves?
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dirkwright
Senior Member
Username: dirkwright

Post Number: 1245
Registered: 2-2005
Posted on Thursday, October 26, 2006 - 7:54 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

Um, I assume this is a trick question?

Learning requires making mistakes, the willingness to take the risk of making a mistake, the willingness to accept change. So, learning is accepting change through taking risk. Do I get a gold star?
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Southern Cross
Senior Member
Username: jolinda

Post Number: 1449
Registered: 1-2004
Posted on Thursday, October 26, 2006 - 10:33 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

No, Dirk, it wasn't a trick question. I was thinking of "You cannot understand a thing until you learn it." I was wondering what people thought about the concept of learning and knowledge.

But since you've given an initial answer, do you think that any learning is possible without risk?
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dirkwright
Senior Member
Username: dirkwright

Post Number: 1249
Registered: 2-2005
Posted on Thursday, October 26, 2006 - 11:07 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

No. The very act of learning requires taking risk because any knowledge learned would cause a change, and change is scary. Those that refuse to learn are actually afraid of change. Those that want to learn are brave and willing to accept change.

We can talk philosophy all day if you want, but I'm a little rusty. I took some graduate classes in it while I was an undergrad at Tulane, but I only took them pass/fail. I passed all of them. We're discussing the philosophy knowledge, btw.
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dirkwright
Senior Member
Username: dirkwright

Post Number: 1252
Registered: 2-2005
Posted on Thursday, October 26, 2006 - 11:56 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

Learning means "changing your mind" about something. That could mean creating something new where nothing existed before, or changing whatever is there now into something else. Unless one is willing to accept change, no learning can occur. I happen to not be crippled by the fear of change, so learning is easier for me than maybe other people.
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Janey
New member
Username: janeye_trans

Post Number: 43
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Thursday, October 26, 2006 - 12:27 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

Change is stability . If things don't keep moving and changing they become stagnent(sp?).
The wheel spins maybe even like an evolving spiral but the center like the eye of the storm stays the same peaceful . I think learning happens naturally . Like one of those AHA ! moments . They can't be forced and they can't be learned they just happen . If one catches sight of it learning is the result . So I believe so far :-) A never ending journey . No sense getting attached to anything learned because evolution tells me nothing is written in stone .
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dirkwright
Senior Member
Username: dirkwright

Post Number: 1254
Registered: 2-2005
Posted on Thursday, October 26, 2006 - 12:35 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

I'm not really talking about Taoism, sorry. Of course we have moments of enlightenment, they happen more often for some people than for others. I believe that the less afraid of change we are, the more of these moments we experience. The fear of change, and the fear of the other are the two fundamental fears everyone lives with, and tries to address in their lives. I'm not sure how the fear of the other comes into play in learning. Let me think about it for a while.
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dirkwright
Senior Member
Username: dirkwright

Post Number: 1255
Registered: 2-2005
Posted on Thursday, October 26, 2006 - 12:43 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

I think that fear of the other is expressed in learning by being afraid of the new subject matter, or the new idea. The two fears are intertwined of course.
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Janey
New member
Username: janeye_trans

Post Number: 44
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Thursday, October 26, 2006 - 12:46 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

me either :-) that is just the feelings and thoughts I have when I think about the topic .
My perspective for me allieviates my own fear .
Just sharing my view wasn't implying anything about yours :-)
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dirkwright
Senior Member
Username: dirkwright

Post Number: 1256
Registered: 2-2005
Posted on Thursday, October 26, 2006 - 12:52 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

Oh, of course not, I didn't mean that you did imply anything about that.

Whatever works for you to handle your fears is fine of course.
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Southern Cross
Senior Member
Username: jolinda

Post Number: 1452
Registered: 1-2004
Posted on Thursday, October 26, 2006 - 1:06 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

Back to my question about learning and risk. If learning does involve risk, does the risk necessarily have to be "perceived" risk? For example, when a baby begins walking, he could fall, but does he know that?
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dirkwright
Senior Member
Username: dirkwright

Post Number: 1257
Registered: 2-2005
Posted on Thursday, October 26, 2006 - 1:11 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

Oh yeah, I think so. I think fear of falling is one of the earliest fears babies learn.
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dirkwright
Senior Member
Username: dirkwright

Post Number: 1258
Registered: 2-2005
Posted on Thursday, October 26, 2006 - 1:12 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

A person will most likely be unconscious of taking a risk, of being afraid, at least based on my past experience. I don't know of anyone that has objectified this like I have, though I'm sure someone already has done that.
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Mark
Senior Member
Username: mark

Post Number: 720
Registered: 2-2001
Posted on Thursday, October 26, 2006 - 5:15 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

Psychology experiment - a baby was placed on a sheet of glass above the floor.
He curled his fingers and his toes, as if he was trying to grab something to keep from falling.
This wasn't learned behavior - it was apparently instinctual.

You can't learn something you already know.
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Southern Cross
Senior Member
Username: jolinda

Post Number: 1454
Registered: 1-2004
Posted on Thursday, October 26, 2006 - 5:21 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

But what is knowledge? Can there ever be knowledge without learning coming first?
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dirkwright
Senior Member
Username: dirkwright

Post Number: 1259
Registered: 2-2005
Posted on Friday, October 27, 2006 - 8:27 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

Babies are not blank slates when they are born. They bring with them the sum total of their life experiences to date. The fear of falling is not instinctual, there really is no such thing. It was learned a long time ago and is now carried in the soul at all times.

SC, it depends. Apparently, in the mind of God, everything is known. But, we embody here to gain new experiences that apparently enrich our souls. So, it must be true that our souls are not in the mind of God, otherwise we would not have a need to embody here. So, yes, for us there must be learning first in order for knowledge to be gained.
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Mark
Senior Member
Username: mark

Post Number: 722
Registered: 2-2001
Posted on Friday, October 27, 2006 - 9:31 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

An instantaneous physical reaction to a perceived physical threat is survival-based genetic memory (what I called "instinct"). All organisms have it.
But we take it too far.

Fear - the thought overlay - is a result of over-objectifying your experience by reacting to an intellectual interpretation of what you think you should be afraid of encountering. A barrier perpetuated by habit and reinforced by repetition.
And that kind of false emotion is learned behavior - ego protection only. An example would be a fear of loss of social status.

In that case, learning serves as a a substitute for knowing.

We're weird animals.
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dirkwright
Senior Member
Username: dirkwright

Post Number: 1260
Registered: 2-2005
Posted on Friday, October 27, 2006 - 10:40 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

I agree that fear is the means by which the ego is protected, but I would merely state that fear is the absence of love. It's as simple as that.

I agree there is a kind of knowing that does not require learning. This is the intuitive gut feeling kind of knowledge that we all can cultivate if we choose to do so. There is also an intellectual direct knowing that does not require learning.
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Southern Cross
Senior Member
Username: jolinda

Post Number: 1461
Registered: 1-2004
Posted on Friday, October 27, 2006 - 12:30 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

I ordered Paul's book. They said it should ship today.
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dirkwright
Senior Member
Username: dirkwright

Post Number: 1264
Registered: 2-2005
Posted on Friday, October 27, 2006 - 1:09 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

I'm sure you'll enjoy it SC. I don't want to spoil it for you, so I won't share what's in it. I'm re-reading Autobiography of a Yogi. I put Bob's last book down, I think for good.
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Southern Cross
Senior Member
Username: jolinda

Post Number: 1464
Registered: 1-2004
Posted on Friday, October 27, 2006 - 4:45 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

I hope you're enjoying it, so far.
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Southern Cross
Senior Member
Username: jolinda

Post Number: 1471
Registered: 1-2004
Posted on Friday, October 27, 2006 - 7:33 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

Back to the fear issue. I think that there are two kinds of "fear." One is fear of anything that threatens the ego, and the second is fear of anything that threatens the physical body. Sometimes they can be related, and all the ways that they are related is a subject of psychology of which I have little knowledge.
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dirkwright
Senior Member
Username: dirkwright

Post Number: 1282
Registered: 2-2005
Posted on Friday, October 27, 2006 - 7:52 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

Yeah, Yogananda is cool. I'm not into the mother worship stuff, or I just don't understand it, but I have some kind of connection to him that I just remembered the other night.

Well, you can slice it, you can dice it, you can french fry it, but it's still fear. The ego identifies solely with the body, so, fear of bodily harm is therefore a threat to the ego. The walls of the box called ego are made of fear. There you go!
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Southern Cross
Senior Member
Username: jolinda

Post Number: 1473
Registered: 1-2004
Posted on Friday, October 27, 2006 - 8:01 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

Hi Dirk. My explanation helps me to understand some of the concepts of fear. I don't think it matters in the end.

Yogananda is devoted to the female principal in natural creation. It could also be seen as the Goddess energy or Mother Nature. His kind of devotion isn't felt by everyone, and I think he speaks of the personal and impersonal aspects to the Creative Spirit at some point in the book.
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dirkwright
Senior Member
Username: dirkwright

Post Number: 1284
Registered: 2-2005
Posted on Friday, October 27, 2006 - 8:51 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

What ever works for you SC. It's all the same to me. Fear is just the absence of love. You have to love your fear in order to heal it, in order to expand your awareness, in order to expand your consciousness. People who do not believe in the unseen world are very afraid people. They have very little awareness or consciousness. They are stuck in this 3D world and that is very sad. Healing your fear is the same as gaining enlightenment.

Oh, I have a Goddess I already worship, thanks. She is wonderous and pure, her mind is as clear as crystal, her spirit is the essence of feminine power. I adore her.
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Southern Cross
Senior Member
Username: jolinda

Post Number: 1494
Registered: 1-2004
Posted on Sunday, October 29, 2006 - 7:56 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

I went to a lecture last night given by a well know psychologist who investigates paranormal activities. He mentioned that the OBE state produces a specific brain wave pattern, and activates a specific area of the brain. I didn't have a chance to follow up to find out which portion of the brain it is. It's nice to see that some of the psi stuff in finally making its way into main stream psychology.
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Southern Cross
Senior Member
Username: jolinda

Post Number: 1495
Registered: 1-2004
Posted on Sunday, October 29, 2006 - 8:00 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

Here is some info on the event, while the link still works.

http://www.saybrook.edu/events/index.asp?strContent=060922krippner
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dirkwright
Senior Member
Username: dirkwright

Post Number: 1318
Registered: 2-2005
Posted on Sunday, October 29, 2006 - 8:10 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

Hi SC, glad you enjoyed the lecture. I think Bob Monroe kind of knew that a long time ago, or at least they have hemi-sync CD's specifically for stimulating OBE's. He at least knew the proper brain wave patterns for OBE's, and knew how to stimulate them using hemi-sync. I think the frequencies are primarily in the theta region, but I don't know for sure.
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Southern Cross
Senior Member
Username: jolinda

Post Number: 1496
Registered: 1-2004
Posted on Sunday, October 29, 2006 - 8:20 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

Hi Dirk. The scientists are so critical of their verification that a woman who was hooked up to electrodes in an OBE experiment was able to read a the numbers on a paper that was placed well beyond her reach on the theory that she could have smuggled in a multi level mirror and read the numbers.
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dirkwright
Senior Member
Username: dirkwright

Post Number: 1321
Registered: 2-2005
Posted on Sunday, October 29, 2006 - 8:23 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

Well, I'm not surprised by that. I've long since given up on science understanding these kinds of things. It just doesn't work for non-physical human experiences, in my opinion.
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Southern Cross
Senior Member
Username: jolinda

Post Number: 1498
Registered: 1-2004
Posted on Sunday, October 29, 2006 - 8:26 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

I think that recently, they have better tools to measure things like brain activity that is consistently different during certain events. That's good.
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dirkwright
Senior Member
Username: dirkwright

Post Number: 1323
Registered: 2-2005
Posted on Sunday, October 29, 2006 - 8:29 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

Yeah well they still think the brain is the same as the mind, or actually, that the brain is the source of the mind. The truth is that the brain is like an antenna, it receives input from the mind, which is non-physical. I believe I read that the heart chakra has more electrical activity than the brain anyway.
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Southern Cross
Senior Member
Username: jolinda

Post Number: 1499
Registered: 1-2004
Posted on Sunday, October 29, 2006 - 8:29 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

I think I was out of body last night. I remember talking with an individual who appeared to be ghost - like on that level. Like a light and luminous body.
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dirkwright
Senior Member
Username: dirkwright

Post Number: 1325
Registered: 2-2005
Posted on Sunday, October 29, 2006 - 8:34 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

He was probably just someone in their light body. I've been in that body many times. It's a humanoid body that is made of white light.

So, do you have some biege or off-white high heel shoes you wore this weekend, like last night?
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Southern Cross
Senior Member
Username: jolinda

Post Number: 1501
Registered: 1-2004
Posted on Sunday, October 29, 2006 - 8:36 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

I remember lying in bed in between waking and sleep for a long time. Then I felt something brush the back of my neck. I thought I was imagining it, but then it happened again. The next thing I knew I was "out," and talking to this person. Why I wasn't frightened as hell, I don't know.
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Southern Cross
Senior Member
Username: jolinda

Post Number: 1502
Registered: 1-2004
Posted on Sunday, October 29, 2006 - 8:39 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

No, but I was shoe shopping and had shoes on the brain.
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dirkwright
Senior Member
Username: dirkwright

Post Number: 1328
Registered: 2-2005
Posted on Sunday, October 29, 2006 - 8:40 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

It may have been one of your guides. I met one of mine again early this morning. He is very tall with wrinkled skin. He just said "hello". Something is supposed to happen tomorrow night. I don't know what yet.

I've been working with the Heartline CD set from the MI. I'm on the CD where you talk to a loved one and try and clear up past misunderstandings. I hope it helps. I talked to a woman I dearly love.
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dirkwright
Senior Member
Username: dirkwright

Post Number: 1329
Registered: 2-2005
Posted on Sunday, October 29, 2006 - 8:41 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

Hmm, I was meditating early this morning and got an image of being in a woman's body and kicking off some high heeled shoes. I thought they were light colored. Oh well.
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Southern Cross
Senior Member
Username: jolinda

Post Number: 1504
Registered: 1-2004
Posted on Sunday, October 29, 2006 - 8:48 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

I don't think the person was a guide. It wasn't a teaching kind of thing. It was more like a conversation with a good friend.
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dirkwright
Senior Member
Username: dirkwright

Post Number: 1331
Registered: 2-2005
Posted on Sunday, October 29, 2006 - 8:49 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

Oh, well, guides are often friends, but whatever. Hope you gained from the experience.
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dirkwright
Senior Member
Username: dirkwright

Post Number: 1347
Registered: 2-2005
Posted on Monday, October 30, 2006 - 4:26 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

I just ordered the Hemi-Sync CD Set for learning how to do OBE's. I still can't control them, though I know I have them, but I'm only able to be "awake" sometimes. I need to do this better.
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scion
Advanced Member
Username: scion

Post Number: 321
Registered: 4-2006
Posted on Monday, October 30, 2006 - 6:00 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

If you feel like it please post your experiences with the CD's you have ordered.
Higgins said to Turner, "How do you know they'll print it?"
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dirkwright
Senior Member
Username: dirkwright

Post Number: 1350
Registered: 2-2005
Posted on Tuesday, October 31, 2006 - 7:51 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

Sure, when I get them and try them out. of course.