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Thomas
Senior Member
Username: thomas_j_veil

Post Number: 807
Registered: 3-2006
Posted on Wednesday, May 17, 2006 - 6:36 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post


quote:

How do we waken the sleeping Herd??




I ask myself that every single day.

And I hope I'm wrong about this, but I'm not sure that we can. When I apply that question to common experience, I think of all the times I've tried to physically awaken someone who didn't want to wake up. Attempts like this are usually met with some mild form of anger, at the very least. And even when they DO "wake up," their hearts aren't in it, even though they may (grudgingly) acknowledge—cognitively—that it "is time."

But if we can gain their cooperation in the effort, I agree with you that change is possible. When I think of how much I've changed just in a few short years, for example, I'm stunned.

[If I met the "me" from 20 years ago, I probably wouldn't get along with "me." ]
"Question what's real. Question who's real."
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Patricia Davis
Senior Member
Username: patricia

Post Number: 10026
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Thursday, May 18, 2006 - 3:20 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

I tell myself that if the horrible things that the current administration has done to this country have a silver lining, it's that they are making even life-long Herd members--some of them--awaken. And they ARE furious, from what I've seen. Not all will manage a complete frames change, but they may influence others to begin to pay attention to what's going on in Washington in a way that they'd previously managed to avoid.

There will always be flag-wavers who buy into the spun reality that is promoted by the Controllers' minions, but I think that there is hope, even now, even here, where the media's been inflitrated for over 50 years, for a certain subset of the Herd to wake up. That's a known factor to the spinmeisters, though, and I'm sure they have containment and damage control procedures in place. Wouldn't be surprised if some of them didn't involve the internet, too.

We live in Interesting Times, as the old curse calls them....
"When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." Sinclair Lewis 1935
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Carissa
New member
Username: carissac

Post Number: 2
Registered: 5-2006
Posted on Tuesday, May 30, 2006 - 3:48 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

I just wanted to say that earlier arguing aside, this is a really great thread. :-) I don't have anything to contribute myself at the moment, but wanted to say thanks to Thomas and Patricia Davis for their thought provoking insights.
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Patricia Davis
Senior Member
Username: patricia

Post Number: 10070
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Wednesday, May 31, 2006 - 2:10 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

I'm glad you've found us, Carissa--welcome to the board There's another *humongous* thread on mind control in the UFO topic area, called "When there are witness" (sic). Our affectionate nickname for it is "the Monster Thread" [for more reasons than one)

If your eyes are up to it, try to read through the first few archives, at least, when a poster calling herself onesmartrat was educating us all on the subject of mind control programs. There's flaming and arguing and meanspiritedness from some very threatened folks and OSR's personality was extremely abrasive, but if you can skim those parts, there is a tremendous amount of exceedingly rare, first-person information on very hidden things that many people want NEVER to see discussed at all.

It warms the cockles of my heart when I check in on it daily and "tend" it to keep it on the board, since there are people who would love to see it vanish
"When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." Sinclair Lewis 1935
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Da'an
Senior Member
Username: daan

Post Number: 1452
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Sunday, June 18, 2006 - 2:17 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

.

wheat from chaff, yes...



.
"""""""
"UP"
"""""""
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Da'an
Senior Member
Username: daan

Post Number: 1453
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Sunday, June 18, 2006 - 2:18 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

.

its big.


its long.


some links
are ancient.

.
"""""""
"UP"
"""""""
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Thomas
Senior Member
Username: thomas_j_veil

Post Number: 1601
Registered: 3-2006
Posted on Friday, June 23, 2006 - 1:54 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

If anyone is interested in the history of "mind control" programs in the U.S. and their many purposes, I found a very concise web page (even though the article in it is ten pages long) called "Bluebird: Deliberate Creation of Multiple Personality by Psychiatrists," by Colin A. Ross MD.

I would highly recommend this article to anyone, like me, who is doing independent research on these matters.

The article is a ten page summary of his book on the deliberate efforts that have been made—by the U.S. Government and some of the most powerful names in 20th Century psychiatry—to engender dissociation in certain "patients." There is a LOT of interesting info there, all heavily sourced, and patently un-bleeping-beLIEVable if it weren't.

But it IS believable, quite sadly. In fact, it PROVES that the CIA was able to create "Manchurian Candidate" types of assassins. If they were capable of this back then, exactly WHAT are they capable of right now? How deep does the possible scope of manipulation go? And just how many people truly were/are victims of this?

When you read the part about the "ordinary woman" who was "programmed" to plant a bomb, or the other lady who was again "programmed" to murder another woman—both of whom later were also "programmed" to forget that either of them had even done this, you will see what I mean.

I will provide a quote from the article, and then I will provide the link to that article, at the bottom of this post.


quote:

BLUEBIRD blows the whistle on extensive political abuse of psychiatry in North America in the second half of the 20th century. Many thousands of prisoners and mental patients were subjected to unethical mind control experiments by leading psychiatrists and medical schools. Organized academic psychiatry has never acknowledged this history. The network of mind control doctors involved in BLUEBIRD has done a great deal of harm to the field of psychiatry and to psychiatric patients. My goal is to break the ugly silence. P. K

The participation of psychiatrists and medical schools in mind control research was not a matter of a few scattered doctors pursuing questionable lines of investigation. Rather, the mind control experimentation was systematic, organized, and involved many leading psychiatrists and medical schools. The mind control experiments were interwoven with radiation experiments, and research on chemical and biological weapons. They were funded by the CIA, Army, Navy, Air Force, and by other agencies including the Public Health Service and the Scottish Rite Foundation. The psychiatrists, psychologists, neurosurgeons, and other contractors conducting the work were imbedded in a broad network of doctors, and much of the research was published in medical journals. The climate was permissive, supportive, and approving of mind control experimentation. P. F, 1




What I found highly convincing was both the sheer number of sources and the high quality of "good sourcing" this scholar employed in his analysis. So much of the information one finds on this subject—all over the internet—does not provide proper sourcing, and this diminishes its credibility for many people.

If you read this article—and I hope you do—I believe you will find Colin A. Ross MD, and the frightening scope of MC capabilities even those that were being employed THEN (in the 50's, 60's, and 70's) highly believable. It makes one wonder what further "advances" (an unfortunate term, surely) have been made since then.

Bluebird: Deliberate Creation of Multiple Personality by Psychiatrists, by Colin A. Ross MD.

(Message edited by thomas_j_veil on June 23, 2006)
"Question what's real. Question who's real."
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TheLabRat
Advanced Member
Username: thelabrat

Post Number: 356
Registered: 1-2006
Posted on Friday, June 23, 2006 - 8:37 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

Thomas, thank you for posting that. It would not surprise me if it has been posted on the witness thread.

Dr. Ross' "Bluebird..." was one of the first credible things I found, back when I started all this searching on MC. That, and the MKUltra documents released after the Church ? hearings back in '77.

These were the places that I found the first real confirmation for some of my memories/lack of memories. Those, and this board, too.

I will probably never have all the pieces to my puzzle. Too many are gone forever.

But I learned enough from sources like Dr. Ross, and from other MC survivors, to know that I was involved, probably from birth.

Here is Dr. Ross' website:

Ross Institute
"In the end, only kindness matters."
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Thomas
Senior Member
Username: thomas_j_veil

Post Number: 1624
Registered: 3-2006
Posted on Saturday, June 24, 2006 - 1:05 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

It's truly stunning to have read and to realize what true evil some people are capable of. Thank you for the link; I'll take a look at it.
"Question what's real. Question who's real."
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Morgaine
New member
Username: morgaine

Post Number: 31
Registered: 6-2006
Posted on Saturday, June 24, 2006 - 9:07 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

Excellent Article! This thread clarified the source of the Nazi elements in our government for me. It makes sense that Bush the elder was head of the CIA since his dad did business with the Nazis. It explains a lot about the devolution of this administration.

In case anyone is interested, there are some alternative news sources you may or may not know about.

http://buzzflash.com/ - BuzzFlash is left wing Bush watchers with all the headlines. They don't accept advertising, so they don't answer to anyone.

http://projectcensored.org/ - Project Censored : "The news that didn't make the news" Must read info about what they media won't tell you.

http://www.oldamericancentury.org/index.htm
Project for an Old American Century - particularly attuned to fascism in the news.


Also, the best book on mind control I've read is Prometheus Rising by Robert Anton Wilson. I make all my students read it first to shake them out of their "trance."
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Thomas
Senior Member
Username: thomas_j_veil

Post Number: 1639
Registered: 3-2006
Posted on Saturday, June 24, 2006 - 1:37 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

Yes. Given the scope of the "projects" of our government into Mind Control—even just those mentioned in this article—a "trance-formation" seems essential, doesn't it?

And while there is an unfortunate disagreement going on throughout this message board right now, with accusations being leveled all around often whenever one member or another sees these issues and others in even a SLIGHTLY different way, I think many (if not most) of us do agree that ALL OF THIS is real.

Exactly how it has impacted each of us personally is up to the individual to decide for him/herself.

For me though, given the sheer SIZE of just that which has been exposed (not to mention what we DON'T know, because of deliberate efforts to conceal it) tells me that most Americans have been impacted at least in some way.
"Question what's real. Question who's real."
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TheLabRat
Advanced Member
Username: thelabrat

Post Number: 378
Registered: 1-2006
Posted on Saturday, June 24, 2006 - 8:15 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

I'm posting this on any "applicable" thread, for those who have "ears" to hear.


Republic Broadcasting

"Greg's first hour guest was Dave Case, who has become a Targeted Individual (TI) after trying to patent sophisticated computer devices and enhancements. Dave also claims to have invented a method to curtail microwave harassment as sophisticated electronic weaponry is being used, according to Case, to inflict injury on many unsuspecting and innocent Americans."



When you click on the link, it's the first interview.

He doesn't actually introduce this guest until about 16 minutes into the show, so you could let it load for a minute, and then fast forward to 16 minutes, if you want to skip Greg's editorializing. (Not that he has nothing to say!)
"In the end, only kindness matters."
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Morgaine
New member
Username: morgaine

Post Number: 45
Registered: 6-2006
Posted on Sunday, June 25, 2006 - 12:25 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

Thomas - I was unaware of the conflict on the board, but I can understand that people may feel threatened by the whole subject. It can be scary to realize how easily we might be manipulated. I wonder sometimes how much of it is by deliberate design - who's pulling the strings and such.

It's obvious that our news is screened and shaped, but I think it extends well into all of our entertainment. It's hard to know where to draw the line. I watch a lot of TV, but I don't think I'm particularly susceptible because I tend to be very critical. On the other hand, I cancelled all of my fashion magazine subscriptions because I was horrified at some of the images they were presenting. I just couldn't support an industry that is harming so many people.

The part of it all that really bothers me is the lack of education that's becoming so pervasive. We have living victims of the holocaust, but still can't recognize a Nazi when we see one. 1 in 6 Americans can't read a newspaper. Most of the adults I encounter, including those on TV shows, can't conjugate a verb correctly.

America seems to be stuck in a perpetual adolescence sexually and ethically, and I don't know how we're going to improve the situation with people like Limbaugh, Hannity, Coulter and Robertson spewing hate speech at a public that isn't that bright to begin with. Our last, best hope is the internet, but it's under constant attack by the "controllers."
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Thomas
Senior Member
Username: thomas_j_veil

Post Number: 1661
Registered: 3-2006
Posted on Sunday, June 25, 2006 - 12:58 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

I agree. There are at least two problems revolving around all of this, as far as I can see.

(1) From my perspective, at least one of the GREATEST taboos (if not THE greatest) is "talking about the weird stuff in our lives." (I mean, "people" will think that we are CRAZY, right? As if "they" were experts.) Many, many "taboos" have been overcome, but talking openly about OBE's, Mind Control, Alien Abductions—or just about anything that seems to invite culturally conjured snickers and ridicule—is still taboo.

I think there is a REASON for this. Because interestingly, NOT talking about them is precisely what "they" prefer. It keeps the whole dog and pony show going.

I think one thing we can do is TALK about this stuff—openly, honestly, fearLESSly. In the end, our FEAR is what is keeping us in chains. If we had LESS "fear," we could discuss what's happening more openly, and discover solutions, where before there was only silence.

(2) The other great problem is "certainty"—because certainty is often an illusion. It is the OTHER thing that is keeping us in chains—because when I am CERTAIN that "I am right and everyone who disagrees with me is wrong," then I am not open to new information. This is unfortunate, because what if I'm wrong about SOME of the things I'm so "CERTAIN" about? That's why, as you can see from my signature line, I'm big on "the question." So I think the illusion of "certainty," and the cultural expectations to BE "certain," are OTHER WAYS we are being controlled ALSO.

There are probably many more cultural things as well, intended to "keep us in line," but these are two of them that come strongly to mind tonight.
"Question what's real. Question who's real."
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Morgaine
New member
Username: morgaine

Post Number: 50
Registered: 6-2006
Posted on Sunday, June 25, 2006 - 1:11 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

Thomas - I've been writing about "certainty" a lot lately. It's the function of a median level of moral and ethical development that relies upon concrete thinking and external authority. People have the potential to develop abstract thinking at around 16 years of age, but most never do. They go through life imposing standards on others that they've never questioned for themselves.

Certainty is dangerous. A person who can admit that he might be wrong isn't going to strap a bomb to himself to make a point. It takes fanatical, black and white thinking to make that happen, and it's high time we grew up as a culture and thought like adults. We don't need faith, we need DOUBT!

You are right about the reason TPTB want to keep us afraid to share information. It keeps power in the hands of Priests and dictators. If people ever figure out that they don't need an intermediary between them and the Divine, the Church is out of business. If the government admits that it got computer chip technology from UFOs and farmed it out to industry, patents and all, it will call into question the entire power structure.

Have you read my essays of How to talk to a Christian yet? It's a four part series that deals with these concepts.
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Thomas
Senior Member
Username: thomas_j_veil

Post Number: 1663
Registered: 3-2006
Posted on Sunday, June 25, 2006 - 1:14 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

And thank you, by the way, TheLabRat, for the link. I haven't had a chance to listen to it yet because I keep getting a "spinning beach ball" whenever I click on the file. I'll try a different browser, and maybe it'll work.
"Question what's real. Question who's real."
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Thomas
Senior Member
Username: thomas_j_veil

Post Number: 1665
Registered: 3-2006
Posted on Sunday, June 25, 2006 - 1:38 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post


quote:

People have the potential to develop abstract thinking at around 16 years of age, but most never do.



You know, it's interesting. Abstract thought has always been my forte—linear thinking has always been my deficit.

When I was just a little kid, I remember asking my kindergarten teacher if she knew that our new, huge swing-set could fit inside my little, tiny sand pale, you know—as long as we just adjusted a few things about the way we look at reality… She looked at ME like I was NUTS; maybe to her, I was.

But it still makes a helluva lot of sense to me: physical space is essentially empty, and the REAL "stuff" of the swing-set and the REAL "stuff" of the pale is the SAME "stuff," and it's all very malleable, from that perspective.

And somehow I knew that intuitively, back then.

But find my KEYS? "Forget-about-it…"

I'll be very interested to read your essay, Morgaine.

And yes, when it comes out that we ARE what we really ARE—the entire power structure on earth will HAVE to change. AND IT WILL.

THAT's what "they" are afraid of—I'd be afraid too, if I was a greedy bast*rd.

Poor babies.

(Message edited by thomas_j_veil on June 25, 2006)
"Question what's real. Question who's real."
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TheLabRat
Advanced Member
Username: thelabrat

Post Number: 390
Registered: 1-2006
Posted on Sunday, June 25, 2006 - 5:49 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

Thomas, spinning beach ball????

How the heck does that happen?

Here is the url:

http://mp3.rbnlive.com/Greg06.html

Try that.

If that doesn't work, go to www.arcticbeacon.com. and click on "Investigative Journal Archives, and it's the first interview.

You said:

"You know, it's interesting. Abstract thought has always been my forte—linear thinking has always been my deficit."

Same here, and though my childhood example is not as complex as yours, it illustrates what you are saying.

I was about 5 or 6, and the family were all gathered out in the backyard on a summer night, laying on quilts and lounging in lawn chairs, looking at the stars.

My father had bought me a star map so that I could learn to identify the planets and constellations.

After quite a while of star-gazing, I asked my Dad, "how big is space?" and he then tried to explain infinity to me.

I understood what he was telling me, and it triggered me to ask him:

"What if there was NOTHING?"

He looked at me sideways, and said, almost sarcastically, mockingly, "Well, I guess then there would be nothing!"

Undeterred, I said, "But that can't be, because even NOTHING is SOMETHING!"

That is one example of the "things that were different" about me, that were, by turns, marvelled at, feared, and manipulated, starting with my parents (mostly father).

However, obviously, abstract thinking doesn't help me understand how to deal with things like.....wills and investing and....and....

On the other hand, I am good at strategy, planning and organization (in some areas).

Go figure?


Another thought....

Once, I told my mother that I believed that there was a cure for AIDS and cancer, but that it was being supressed by Pharma and $Medicine$.

My mom said, "(LabRat), what kind of a PSYCHOTIC NUT ARE YOU???"

That has since become a family "joke", and whenever one of us says something "off-the-wall", the others will say that, using the same facial expression and voice inflections that Mom used!

But, you get the point.

Outside the box = PSYCHOTIC NUT


About the "certainty" thing......

Points are well taken, and I sometimes say "I am certain" or "I am convinced" when discussing what I think happened to me relative to MC.

So, I will try to remember to qualify it, if I choose to speak in those terms.

Because I CERTAINLY cannot be CERTAIN about anything.
"In the end, only kindness matters."
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Mark
Senior Member
Username: mark

Post Number: 2212
Registered: 2-2001
Posted on Sunday, June 25, 2006 - 5:49 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

Thomas said,
And yes, when it comes out that we ARE what we really ARE—the entire power structure on earth will HAVE to change. AND IT WILL.

What do you mean "when it comes out"?
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Thomas
Senior Member
Username: thomas_j_veil

Post Number: 1666
Registered: 3-2006
Posted on Sunday, June 25, 2006 - 1:08 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

I identify with your experience in discussion with your father, TheLabRat. And about "certainty," what I mean has to do with holding off on "certain" conclusions—dogmatic ones—that humans tend to "extrapolate" to include everyone. I did NOT mean your own, personal experiences. When you say, "I am certain" about what happened to you "relative to MC," that's really NOT what I was getting at—because those are YOUR experiences.

To me a survivor, like yourself, who has had MC experiences feeling a sense of "certainty" about her own experiences IS WONDERFUL, and a monumental accomplishment. Never let anyone tell you that you haven't experienced what you're sure you have—Thomas or anyone else.

What I was referring to are "certainties"—like dogmas—that humans want to foist on other humans, whether "it fits" for them or not. And only the individual, in the final analysis, can be sure what happened/is happening in his/her own life.

There's a HUGE difference between (1) THIS experience happened to "me," and (2) THAT belief system is applicable for "you"—and everyone else by the way. A lot of people do that.

Mind control is REAL. And so are many other things. When I got out of the "dogma" business years ago now, I swore that I would NEVER violate the sacred personal experience of another human being again. (Telling people WHAT to believe in any sort of dogmatic way always made me want to take a bath. It still does.) And I try with all my heart NOT to. (I should admit that when it comes to politics—especially on this board—I violate my own principle a LOT. But I am speaking here about areas outside of and beyond politics.)


quote:

Thomas said,
And yes, when it comes out that we ARE what we really ARE—the entire power structure on earth will HAVE to change. AND IT WILL.

What do you mean "when it comes out"?



And Mark, along those same lines, I don't want to foist my "stuff" on you in answer to your question. I will say that I think humans are VASTLY MORE than we have been led to believe—and that I DEEPLY SUSPECT that one of the reasons "they" want to control us is to keep us from finding exactly that out. Because if we did, their little power game would be over.

I'm open to discussing just what "that fact" they don't wan't to "come out" might be, but you sure as hell don't need "me" trying to TELL "you"—or anybody else—whatever "the truth" is. (As if I were qualified to do that for someone else. I'm not.)

Forgive the dis-connected nature of this post please. I'm short on time. I am actually "going to church" with someone this morning, and we both hope the place doesn't explode in flames.

(Message edited by thomas_j_veil on June 25, 2006)
"Question what's real. Question who's real."
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Thomas
Senior Member
Username: thomas_j_veil

Post Number: 1667
Registered: 3-2006
Posted on Sunday, June 25, 2006 - 3:19 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

Whadya know? No flames.

And I got this quote from there—and about "certainty," interestingly enough:


quote:

"We cannot discover new oceans, unless we have the courage to lose sight of the shore."



I liked that.
"Question what's real. Question who's real."
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Thomas
Senior Member
Username: thomas_j_veil

Post Number: 1670
Registered: 3-2006
Posted on Sunday, June 25, 2006 - 4:02 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post


quote:

Another thought....

Once, I told my mother that I believed that there was a cure for AIDS and cancer, but that it was being supressed by Pharma and $Medicine$.

My mom said, "(LabRat), what kind of a PSYCHOTIC NUT ARE YOU???"

That has since become a family "joke", and whenever one of us says something "off-the-wall", the others will say that, using the same facial expression and voice inflections that Mom used!

But, you get the point.

Outside the box = PSYCHOTIC NUT



You make a good point. Thank heaven for those "psychotic nuts," the Wright Brothers, who perceived something the rest of the world simply could not see.
"Question what's real. Question who's real."
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Thomas
Senior Member
Username: thomas_j_veil

Post Number: 1674
Registered: 3-2006
Posted on Sunday, June 25, 2006 - 4:56 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

Very, very cool, Morgaine. I just read through your article on "How to Talk to a Christian," and I loved it. I'm going to read it again.

I very much liked the part about how "fear mongers" appeal to our primitive, "inner reptile."

If anyone hasn't had a chance to see Morgaine's site, I'd highly recommend it.


P.S. Morgaine, you wouldn't be related to "Ingo," by chance, would you?
"Question what's real. Question who's real."
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TheLabRat
Advanced Member
Username: thelabrat

Post Number: 391
Registered: 1-2006
Posted on Sunday, June 25, 2006 - 9:39 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

Thomas, thank you for the reassurance. I feel the same way about validating other people's experience. When, or if, I doubt their veracity, I usually keep it to myself. Not always, but I don't....well, I try...not to let myself get disctracted.

I do understand the difference you were pointing out. I guess, as usual, since it's always all about ME, I smarted a bit when I first read your post, because I had JUST posted the lines you quoted about my certainty, or being convinced. And those are not necessarily the same.

I would feel compelled, and DO, in case nobody noticed, to post about issues that are both personally relevant, and have potential interest for others. Sometimes, it is seen as getting off topic.

But I only put info out there, in the spirit of, "Be aware, and consider this. FYI. See if you identify with it, even if you never considered it before.

I know that I can get defensive if my perceptions are questioned, especially in the "heat of the moment" when things are......weird. And sometimes I know I seem obstinate in trying to "convince" people that my perceptions are....well.....real. I'm bad about that.

But I agree that dogmatic protestations are off-putting, to say the least. But I don't mean to be dogmatic, and I don't try to tell other people that what is happening to me, is what is happening to them, or that they are mistaken about the probable causes of their....stuff.

I totally laughed about you asking impertinent questions! I have made several people uncomfortable by asking for things like, explanations of contradictions in scripture, just for one example.

Oh, and about thinking outside the box, and all that; what was it they said about Einstein, in his time?

Thomas, I finished the transcript of the interview I posted yesterday. I will post it, if you, or anyone else, didn't get to hear it, and are interested.
"In the end, only kindness matters."
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Thomas
Senior Member
Username: thomas_j_veil

Post Number: 1688
Registered: 3-2006
Posted on Sunday, June 25, 2006 - 10:33 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

I would LOVE to read it; so please do post it—especially since you've put so much work into it. And honestly, by the way, I've never perceived you to be "defensive" or "off-putting" at all.

It's hard sometimes to communicate through just a written medium. Sometimes what we mean doesn't come through, and what we don't mean DOES.
"Question what's real. Question who's real."
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Morgaine
Junior Member
Username: morgaine

Post Number: 57
Registered: 6-2006
Posted on Sunday, June 25, 2006 - 10:36 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

A better way to talk about "certainty" might be to say the ability to admit that you might be wrong. If a person can imagine a situation where they might be mistaken, they aren't as likely to throw bombs.

Thomas - thanks for the kind words. I'm trying to get that information into the public consciousness in hopes that it will make them more aware of the manipulation.

I'm afraid I don't know Ingo - who is that?
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Thomas
Senior Member
Username: thomas_j_veil

Post Number: 1689
Registered: 3-2006
Posted on Sunday, June 25, 2006 - 10:58 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post


quote:

I'm afraid I don't know Ingo - who is that?



Ingo Swann, the father of remote viewing. To me, the last name, "Swann," was not a particularly common one. Just thought I'd ask.
"Question what's real. Question who's real."
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TheLabRat
Advanced Member
Username: thelabrat

Post Number: 398
Registered: 1-2006
Posted on Monday, June 26, 2006 - 12:05 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

"And honestly, by the way, I've never perceived you to be "defensive" or "off-putting" at all."

You are such a sweetheart, and I feel that you see into my heart.

But you are also very generous, which I also love. I have been accused of being defensive, here and elsewhere. And in truth, I am defensive. Hypervigilant and exquisitely sensitive to invalidation and judgement and insincerity.

But, I think you are right! I do pretty well, considering....!

But I am, by nature, willing to admit I am wrong, given enough information. Another of my qualities that pisses the Controllers off!

I am reminded yet again, of one of my favorite books from long ago, called "Illusions: The Adventures of a Reluctant Messiah", by Richard Back.

It was a sweet book, kinda like "The Teachings of Don Juan" - Lite!

Two of my favorite lines from the book are:

"Your friends will know you better in the first minute you meet them than your acquaintences will know you in a thousand years."

and

"The bond that links your true family is not one of blood, but of respect and joy in each other's life....Rarely do members of one family grow up under the same roof."

(How serendipitous that I am reminded of those lines as a result of posting to this board!)


Anyway after beautifully imparting beautiful metaphysical "truths", the "messiah" tells him that "everything (I have told you) could be wrong."


"In the end, only kindness matters."
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TheLabRat
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Username: thelabrat

Post Number: 399
Registered: 1-2006
Posted on Monday, June 26, 2006 - 12:07 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

Okay, my peeps! Here is the interview!




"Greg: How are you today?

Dave: Not too bad.

Greg: So why don't you start up, and tell us how this all started for you. Introduce who you are and then tell us how you believe that you have been targetted by these weapons, that are being used, either by our government, or private contractors on behalf of the government in order to harm you and your physical being.

Dave: Yes, I'm an electrical engineer down in Van Buren, MO. And basically, I'm an inventor, and also do subcontracting for electrical repair.

The problem started in 1995, when I was working on a light-operated computer. I was trying to patent it.

My patent attorney said that I actually had four to five inventions, and it would be five times the money.

While trying to acquire the money, I went down to my parents house, and was visiting with them, and...

Greg: What kind of invention did you have?

Dave: A light operated computer. Most computers use electrons, and operate slower, but when you use protons, you're able to process information much quicker.

Greg: Okay.

Dave: And I invented a see-through CD, that would operate the computer, instead of a flat....it's a parrallel data system, it's extremely fast.

So, what occurred, like I say, I took a break and went down to my parents house, and they were watching TV in the other room, and I got a ringing in my ears, sounded much like a computer or digital information, like modem noise, it sounds just like that..

Greg: Let me just interject this before our break, and then I'll bring you back after the break. But, you were filing for a patent, and you are'nt the first person I've talked to that tried to patent certain inventions, that have been harrassed in strange ways. And it's an area of the law, that's quite corrupt, and it's a hidden area and a lot of people don't know about it.

Greg: Okay, lets get back to my guest, Dave Case, who claims to be a targetted individual. You know, I have covered this type of story on the show before, and in my humble opinion, I think it's one of the biggest stories facing America right now. And it's one of these undercover stories that you really have to dig deep to get to the bottom of what's really going on.

But this sophisticated weaponry that is being used by our government through contractors, uh, boy, can do a lot of damage to people in ways...that I call it the perfect crime. They can go through walls with this weaponry, and it's very very very dangerous, and it is documented that they use it in the military for crowd control, and other methods.

And it's now, by the numbers of people that have come forward, I'm talking thousands. Hundreds that I have talked to. It's a story that needs attention, needs to be known, because we are being attacked by this monster we call the US Government, in so many ways, this is just another one.

And Dave Case is with us to tell his story about how he was targetted while trying to get, what seems to be a very very interesting patent on a computer system. Go ahead, Dave.

Dave: Yes, I was working on a light-operated computer system, and I took a break and went down to my parents house to visit them, down here in Van Buren. And they were watching TV in the other room.

And I got a ringing in my ears, all of a sudden. So I went in to read the Bible, and laid down on my bed, in my old room where I used to stay. And then all of a sudden, the TV started flipping channels faster and faster and blew up, or made a loud noise, and...

Greg: Now you had already filed for your patent at this point?

Dave: I was in the process of doing a "patent search", and they go through and make sure that the device does not already exist, etc.

Then, a vehicle pulled up, and the house was locked up, this was like...

Greg: What year are we talking about, just to give out listeners a....

Dave: This is the last of 1996, right at Dec. 20th.

And, this vehicle pulled up, and the house was locked up, this is like 9 o'clock at night, dark. And this guy walks right in...we had a business next door, which was a gun shop, and I was in the residence side.

Well he walks right in, as if he had a key, you know, he didn't really break in.....and starts yelling, "You're gonna have to turn down emotion. We can't keep blowing equipment. We lost Alpha Zulu."

Greg: What the heck does that mean?

Dave: Well, after much, much research....you know, I thought he was a crazy nut, and just broke in, I didn't really think much about it.

But after much research....I am actually holding in my hand a United States Patent to "a device and a method for creation of of emotion", US Pat. No. 6219657.

Now, when he was speaking about "turning down emotion", this device is designed, you actually affect the target and bring their brain chemistry into abnormal regions, so you're going to disrupt their emotions and cause massive problems within their psyche, that's the design of this weaponry. And we have a real big problem in the United States, because it's protected by National Security.

They are able to torture random individuals, at will, because they are protected. This crime is protected by National Security...

And I went on, to, after 3 years of torture, I mean, they destroyed my life. I lost my job...

Greg: Tell me a little bit, you know, just be specific about some of the things they did to you. You're jumping 3 years, I want to know some of the specific ways they tortured you.

Dave: Well, uh, the sound was so loud that my fingers vibrated to the sound, as if they were hitting my central nervous system. And every fiber of you is vibrating to the sound. And like I say, I could not sleep, I couldn't even sit down in a chair. All I could do was pace. You know, everyone assumed that, you know, I was on drugs, or went insane, etc.

You know, one month, I'm working on a super computer system, my lawyer says does not exist, and it's way advanced. And one month later, I'm driven into a mental institution....by this sound...

Greg: Now tell me a little, just get back to the subject about your computer system. What would have this done, what would be the advantage of your patent?

Dave: Well, in a normal CD, you get serial data, individual bits. In my CD it would be parallel. So in one revolution you could read that CD.

So you get a hundred times quicker video, much faster extraction of data from your memory. But also I discovered a way to hide data within the colors of the spectrum. In other words one bit would be colorized, and you have more information per bit, than a normal system.

Greg: Well I want to get into this story in the next half hour. Is this patent on the market now?

Dave: Well, like I say, I was physically attacked....I've gone on to patent other things...but, you know...

Greg: Okay lets get back to Dave Case. Dave this is quite a story. Let me tell you this.

Uh, the patent office is corrupt. They usually say, you know, "get a patent to protect your inventions so no one else steals it. But they never tell ya that maybe there's someone in control of the patent office that wants to steal your idea before you can even get it patented.

So, maybe that's what's happened to you. Go ahead.

Dave: Oh, Yes. I've uncovered other inventors that have been targetted. Dennis Lee from California has been shot at, poisoned, etc. And he is writing a book about it.

Greg: What's that name? Dennis Lee?

Dave: Yes, Dennis Lee.

Greg: You shoul contact and maybe see if we can get him on. I'd like to maybe get him on one day.

Dave: Yes. Uh, in my case, I'm not a normal victim, because I do have training in electrical engineering.

And I decided to make a counter-measure, because I was absolutely convinced it was electronics, and there was no other possibility, because of the events that took place.

My very first invention for the countermeasures, worked 100%. And it's a very simple device. All I do is record the sound on an audio tape and put headphones on, and it knocks the ringing out completely.

Greg: Okay, lets go back a second. I wanna know two things: first of all, what's the stage of this invention yours, cause I for one would like the quicker speed on CD's. Where's that at right now?

Dave: Recently IBM was working on a color CD that was very similar. There a lot of projects....I found out later that the Dept. of Defense already has light operated computers. And I believe, in my opinion, that's why I was attacked.

Greg: But did you, did they have them before you?

Dave: Yes.

Greg: But it wasn't patented.

Dave: No, no...uh, no. When the Dept. of Defense makes something, you know, they will use it in secret, and will not patent it, you know.

Greg: Okay.

Dave: But, you know..in my opinion, that's why I was attacked, because I had run onto something that they already had, and it's called, "poison the competition". Get rid of them, remove them from society.

Greg: Okay, so this have never been out yet.

Dave: No, not by me. No.

Greg: Secondly, tell me...you said you underwent years of torture from this, I mean....tell us the different types...I think we gotta make it clear what happened to you....HOW you are sure you were targetted by this microwave weaponry, electronic weaponry. And then we'll move to the solutions that you found that may help a lot of other people. Go ahead.

Dave: Yes, well, first of all, you know, the average person....you have to examine, well, am I mentally insane, you know? That's your first question.

Now as evidenced that....this invention that I have that knocks out the ringing....well, there is no sound that you can listen to to cure mentally ill people, you know. This is an electronic system that I'm knocking out. And the countermeasure is an electronic system.

Greg: So one of the symptoms that you had was the severe ringing in your ears?

Dave: Yes, and it was very artificial sounding, it was not smooth like a bell. It was....it's pulse code modulation is the technical term, and it's similar to a fax machine or (modem) that horrible screeching sound....

Greg: So it's a very high-pitched ringing?

Dave: Yes. Yes.

Greg: Okay.

Dave: And, like I say, I'm holding the patent right in front of me that is used to create and modify emotions of the target. And, uh, they are able to present to the target....

Greg: Now, how do they get the ringing into your ears? From your point of view. I know that other people have explained it to me, but it's best to go over it again. Go ahead.

Dave: It's called a remote neurophone. In 1959, a 15-year-old boy invented a regular neurophone. The CIA seized his patents. He actually went to the patent office, and one of the workers was deaf. And he put the device on him. They said he could not patent it unless he could prove that it worked. And he put the device on a patent office empoyee that was deaf, and he heard...you know, he could hear the sounds and voices.

What it does, it "talks" to the nerves themselves, with specific algorythms. Uh, your brain and central nervous system works off of clicks and pulses. And when you "present" clicks and pulses, (the brain) tries to decode them and use them.

So, when you bombard the target with what's called "bio-relevant information", you can actually seize control of different aspects of that target.

Greg: Alright. So you have ringing in your ears. How did you sto....how long did it go on, and when did you finally stop it? Or have you?

Dave: Yes, yes, I have stopped it. And that's why I'm going on the air with this, because I would like to give out these free tapes and to anyone that would like one.

Greg: Tell us how you stopped it.

Dave: Well, like I say, my intuition said to make something that sounds just like it (the ringing). Cause, if it's electronic feedback loop, you can disrupt that.

So, I began working on an oscillator system, which creates a "hash" that is really a mixture of different frequencies, and they "pulse" on and off, and mix.

Two different 555 (?) oscillator chips run together, so you have 2 seperate signals that are being mixed.

And it's hard to track. When I put them on, it actually disrupts the feedback loop they're using to get "bio-relevant information" from.

Now, I also had a strange occurance on the countermeasure's cord. The rubber cord is hardening within 20 hours, and it's hard as glass.

I don't know if you've ever had a set of headphones, but it takes many many many years for that rubber to harden.

Greg: Ok, so your telling me the technical part. Now, let's just get down to the point. Let's say I have ringing in my ears...let me just listen for a second. OK, I have ringing in my ears right now. this is going to be interesting, because I'm going to get your "solution", get you to send it to me or however we do this. And I am pretty worried about this, cause if it doesn't go away, it means that I'm insane. (laughs) But, at least I'll find out! (laughs)

Dave: No, there's several type of "tinnitis". Ok, if you are next to a loud gunshot or a loud noise, you will actually get nerve damage. Now, my tape will not work on that type of tinnitis.

Greg: Okay. At least I'll know. I used to listen to loud music, and played the guitar...so maybe that's why it's still there.

Dave: Yes. Now, people that have had a SUDDEN onset of tinnitis, and there's no reasonable explanation....and it has devastated their lives...these are the kinds of people that it's (his tape) working on.

And I did find another victim in Panama City, Fla. and she used my tape, and it absolutely cured her. She said she's never had so much energy, since (before) she was targetted.

It's just a regularlittle....you know, Sony walkman audio tape, and I use a high frequency set of headphones.

Greg: Does it have to be on all the time?

Dave: No. I use it for one hour in the morning and one hour in the evening, and it completely wipes out the ringing.

Greg: Well how do we, how can a person test this out? I mean, I know there's people out there who have told me they have these symptoms, and they think it's from electronic weaponry. How can a person at least test it. I mean, it's not harmful, is it?

Dave: No, like I say, it's non-invasive, it's just a audio signal. Now, it is not "pleasant", it's not like music, it's very similar to "white noise".

And I will send one to anyone that wants one, absolutely free.

Greg: Alright, tell us how to get it, and then I want you to send me one, too.

Dave: OK.

Greg: .....so tell us how to get ahold of this.

Dave: Write to: Case Electronics, P.O. Box 394, Van Buren, MO, 63965. Or you can call me at 1-573-996-6786.

Greg: So I play this on a walkman for an hour in the morning and at night, and IF I am being bombarded by electronic weaponry, it should take it away?

Dave: Yes, that's what I'm finding out, and it's really a sad situation that the government feels that it's able to target its own citizens, without recourse.

Greg: Now I know this probabaly opened up a big issue for you, and for others that have been receiving this treatment. What have you found out in general, can you tell our listeners....

I've covered this subject before with numerous people on the show, from all aspects, victims, and the technological aspect of it, uh, legislation that's not there, or is there; and then, the involvement of the military and how they contract it out to private corporations, and that's where the story ends, as far as "do they use it, or not?", and the evidence is still coming in about that.

So tell us what you've learned about the broad topic we're talking about.

Dave: Yes, um, there's been several scientist that have come out and talked about this. One of them was Dr. Delgado, he has invented many mind control devices, and he stated, "One day, all Generals will be controlled by electronic stimulus of the brain." Now, that was in the 70's.

You know, most of this technology actually comes from Tesla, in the 20's. It's old technology, but it's being re-organized into a way where it can be hidden. These signals are called "constructive interference". They do not affect your radios, satellite dishes, anything else, but the target.

The College of The Army says: "Psychotronics can be delivered through the existing wires and plumbing of the target's house." And what this means is, they do not have to go to the target area, they can use satellites, or the HAARP system, to deliver these types of Psychotronics. And that's what they are. They affect the thought patterns. Now this is very dangerous in a Democracy.

Greg: Exactly. Yeah. Now, what about people that you've talked to?

Dave: Well, Uh, the victims' stories are so sad, and it's just amazing that they've been able to get away with this.

That's one of the aspects of it. Once you're targetted, your behavior, etc, is altered.

Greg: How did it change you, by the way?

Dave: Well, you know, like I say, complete sleep deprivation. And that is one of the torture sequences that the Pentagon uses on detainees. So this goes right along will all that kind of torture.

But this is secret, and it's also hard to track. It's just amazing that they are allowed to get away with this.

Greg: Yeah, and I think that people...the more people that come forward, the more credibility this story has.

You know, I don't trust what's going on in Washington, anyway, so I give the benefit of the doubt to the people coming forward with these stories having the courage, because this is a tremendous, tremendously dangerous, story."



In the remaining minutes of the interview, Dave discussed a new invention that enables a car to run with no fuel injection or even any fuel being added. Basically, on fumes. If you want to hear about that, you have to listen to the interview.......cause I think I'm tired now!

LabRat
"In the end, only kindness matters."
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Thomas
Senior Member
Username: thomas_j_veil

Post Number: 1694
Registered: 3-2006
Posted on Monday, June 26, 2006 - 12:05 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

To be honest, I find that not only terrifying (in the extreme), but infuriating as well. (1) That this technology is out there, (2) that it has been used—and on American citizens—without their consent IS A FACT. And an indisputable one. That little has been done to stop it, except the Rockefeller Commission and the Church Hearings (Sen. Frank Church, D-ID) in the '70's is a TRAVESTY.

Perhaps you can answer this for me—or anyone else who is so inclined: Has ANYONE EVER been prosecuted for these crimes? I am referring to the clear, obvious, and PROVABLE crimes against our most vulnerable citizens in the 1950's, 60's, and '70's—at LEAST—as well as the crimes that have continued on, under a different classification being remarked on in this article. The whole thing pisses me off, actually.

TheLabRat, MAYBE you should consider posting this in the political threads, maybe create a new one for it; a lot of people don't read this stuff, and maybe some of THEM are being impacted by this, whether they know it or not. At the very least it might increase awareness.

Oh, and one other thing. Is there a link through which one of our board members might be able to obtain his "counter-measure" tapes to defend themselves from such assaults?

Thanks again for posting this.
"Question what's real. Question who's real."
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Thomas
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Username: thomas_j_veil

Post Number: 1696
Registered: 3-2006
Posted on Monday, June 26, 2006 - 12:14 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post


quote:

And he put the device on a patent office employee that was deaf, and he heard...you know, he could hear the sounds and voices.



Oh, and one last thing. Did anyone catch the remark concerning how this works—even on the deaf? I think the thing that REALLY sends me over the edge about that part THE MOST is that there seems to be technology that might actually be able to help the deaf HEAR! You know, if USED PROPERLY. And what's it being using it for? Messing with people…

Good LORD.
"Question what's real. Question who's real."
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Thomas
Senior Member
Username: thomas_j_veil

Post Number: 1705
Registered: 3-2006
Posted on Monday, June 26, 2006 - 4:35 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post


quote:

Anyway after beautifully imparting beautiful metaphysical "truths", the "messiah" tells him that "everything (I have told you) could be wrong."



Cool: an honest "messiah." I like that!

I imagine that a REAL one would be honest like that.

(By the way, I was so "taken up" by the interview, I had forgotten to check above it for other posts, until now. Thank you!)
"Question what's real. Question who's real."
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TheLabRat
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Username: thelabrat

Post Number: 400
Registered: 1-2006
Posted on Monday, June 26, 2006 - 8:31 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

Thomas, I am encouraged that you feel as outraged as I do.....if you get my meaning.

Right now, I don't have the nerve or the energy to post about it in Politics. Since you put this thread under Psychology, hopefully, it will reach those it might not, otherwise.

Although, I would think that readers of this forum would check out all parts of it. But, sadly, if people don't "want to hear it", for whatever reasons.....

Besides, I get tired of seeing my name at the end of threads that die on the vine.


The guy, Dave Case, does not have a website, apparrently. He only gave his mailing address and telephone number.

When I "run out of things to think about", I am going to call him and ask for one of his tapes, and see if it has any effect on the constant hissing whine in my head. At least, it might "narrow things down".

You never did explain what was happening when you tried to listen to the Mp3 of that interview? I am curious about the spinning beach ball.
"In the end, only kindness matters."
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Thomas
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Username: thomas_j_veil

Post Number: 1711
Registered: 3-2006
Posted on Monday, June 26, 2006 - 9:43 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

I don't know. It may have had something to do with the file itself, which is an "m3u," that re-directs my browser to iTunes and then tries to play the file; somewhere along the line, it didn't like something there. But I'm not a computer expert either; in fact for me "101" isn't "binary," it's "laugh out loud."

At any rate, I'm downloading the raw mp3 file directly (it is slooooowwwww over my otherwise high speed connection) right now, so I can listen to it later like any other audio (like Dreamland).

But thanks for getting the info out there in any case—and ESPECIALLY for all the hard work you put in to transcribe that interview. (I'm a pretty fast typist, but that would have taken me forEVER, I am sure.) I sincerely appreciate it.

(Message edited by thomas_j_veil on June 26, 2006)
"Question what's real. Question who's real."
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TheLabRat
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Username: thelabrat

Post Number: 404
Registered: 1-2006
Posted on Monday, June 26, 2006 - 10:55 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

Steve, it took me about 90 minutes, total. But, I was able to stop the playback, and take breaks.

I am glad you found it helpful.
"In the end, only kindness matters."
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Thomas
Senior Member
Username: thomas_j_veil

Post Number: 1715
Registered: 3-2006
Posted on Monday, June 26, 2006 - 11:06 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post


quote:

Steve, it took me about 90 minutes, total. But, I was able to stop the playback, and take breaks.

I am glad you found it helpful.



Who's "Steve"?
"Question what's real. Question who's real."
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TheLabRat
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Username: thelabrat

Post Number: 406
Registered: 1-2006
Posted on Tuesday, June 27, 2006 - 12:01 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post







(Bummer!!!)

Well, Thomas, I have NO CLUE who Steve is. I just MADE THAT UP!!!!

Must be the "voices in my head"

Or some kind of "Freudian Slip" that I.....have NO CLUE what it meant!

But whoever he is, maybe he's thinking about me?

Just pretend you didn't notice that!

OOPS! Too late!

Told you today was....not a good day, cognitively.!!

*****labrat splashes water on face, and considers some coffee, but thinks better of it, since it's 11PM!*****
"In the end, only kindness matters."
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Thomas
Senior Member
Username: thomas_j_veil

Post Number: 1716
Registered: 3-2006
Posted on Tuesday, June 27, 2006 - 12:19 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

No problem. Actually I like "Steve."

And "Adam" too. Together they tick off the religious right…
"Question what's real. Question who's real."
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TheLabRat
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Username: thelabrat

Post Number: 410
Registered: 1-2006
Posted on Tuesday, June 27, 2006 - 12:28 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

ok, please humor the dingy labrat......

I don't get it.

I am feeling REEEEEEEALLY dingy today. It's like being drunk or stoned without the "benefits".

Of course, if you explain it, then I will probably feel even MORE like a dork!!!

But explain anyway!
"In the end, only kindness matters."
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Thomas
Senior Member
Username: thomas_j_veil

Post Number: 1722
Registered: 3-2006
Posted on Tuesday, June 27, 2006 - 1:40 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

Just a little joke, TheLabRat, at the expense of the religious right.


quote:

"God created 'Adam and Eve'—NOT 'Adam and Steve!'"

—Some excessively "religious dude," who has managed to make it around to ALL the morning and afternoon talk shows since the mid 1970's.



By the way, this all-too-common phrase is usually uttered with a tell-tale "T.V. evangelist" twang.

Perhaps surprisingly to some, "Adam and Steve" often actually enjoy hearing this phrase, as it makes them feel LIGHT YEARS ahead of the "excessively religious dude" on the intelligence scale.
"Question what's real. Question who's real."
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TheLabRat
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Username: thelabrat

Post Number: 415
Registered: 1-2006
Posted on Tuesday, June 27, 2006 - 3:51 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

Man....I can't believe I totally spaced on "Adam and Steve".

And yes.....I know we should be "tolerant of the ignorant", and try to enlighten them.....but some people don't want to be confused with any information or facts!

I may be a loud-mouth. I may be a whiner. I may be crazy.

But I am NOT ignorant....except BEFORE I educate myself....which I DO, before passing judgement.

Thank you, Thomas, for humoring me to explain!

Now, I would still like to know where the hell I came up with "Steve" earlier!

I haven't known a "Steve" in person in a hundredyears, and I have only ever communicated with one online....that I remember, anyway, and that was over a year ago.

Steve?

Oh, well.......
"In the end, only kindness matters."
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Granny
Senior Member
Username: phar9

Post Number: 761
Registered: 5-2004
Posted on Tuesday, June 27, 2006 - 11:04 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

Morgaine ...

"Have you read my essays of How to talk to a Christian yet? It's a four part series that deals with these concepts."

This, I need to read ... am embedded in small town, red-state hell. Of course, everyone already thinks I am a nutbag and probably an atheist ... ha, if they had a clue.

But ... some are beginning to see some of the political worries I have mentioned come to pass ... and they are astonished ... and they still think I am nuts.

I have been thinking about this problem for a couple of years now:

Why are others asleep at the wheel?

Why are we NOT asleep at the wheel? How did we escape the programming and continue to do so? Does it matter? When the hammer drops, we will still be caught in their net.

I have concluded that Americans do know in their hearts ... at least that something is terribly wrong. But they remain asleep because to know would mean they would have to change their great American lives.

I feel one reason they are stuck is that life in America is still not bad enough to force the change. Most of us live lives that others in the world cannot imagine.

Plus to most Americans, the things we are saying could not possibly be true. It is unimaginable!
Until it gets worse ... and it is happening ... Americans will continue with the "dog and pony show."

Gran
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TheLabRat
Advanced Member
Username: thelabrat

Post Number: 424
Registered: 1-2006
Posted on Tuesday, June 27, 2006 - 9:30 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

Granny,

Great post! I am in the same position you are relative both to my location, and to being considered "weird".

Those of us who "see" have not necessarily escaped "programming", however.

In fact, it is "those who see" who are the focus of so much specific and horrific programming. We are targetted BECAUSE we see the man behind the curtain, and because we have probably had that ability, stronger than others, from birth.

It's frustrating! Because we SEE, part of the programming for us includes, by design, programming that discredits us from the get-go.

So.....yes....we will be the victims as well....even more so....because we see. And our ability to be taken seriously has been carefully spun!

And, IMO, you are also correct that the reason most people stay asleep, in the face of the elephant in the room, is because....it is difficult, and interrupts their lifestyles, to which they have become, and still strive to be, accustomed to.

That is true, no matter the unpleasant "truth".

On the most basic level, for me, it's why families no longer personally and lovingly take care of their children, their poor, their sick, and their old.

Social-climbing, and/or political-climbing and consumerism, which offer the sheep (and their leaders) a false sense of importance and security, is the narcotic that numbs them to the tragedies and horrors around them.
"In the end, only kindness matters."
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TheLabRat
Advanced Member
Username: thelabrat

Post Number: 453
Registered: 1-2006
Posted on Wednesday, June 28, 2006 - 7:04 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post



PLEASE HELP! PRAY FOR MY OUTSIDE CAT! His name is Buffy.
"In the end, only kindness matters."
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Thomas
Senior Member
Username: thomas_j_veil

Post Number: 1774
Registered: 3-2006
Posted on Wednesday, June 28, 2006 - 9:14 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

Our thoughts and prayers are with both you and Buffy, TheLabRat. I'm very fond of kitties—and of people who love their kitties, like you do.
"Question what's real. Question who's real."
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Morgaine
Junior Member
Username: morgaine

Post Number: 71
Registered: 6-2006
Posted on Wednesday, June 28, 2006 - 11:42 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

Goddess bless you, Buffy!

About the American Trance State - I think people are literally hypnotized by the media, and they've been raised since the Reagan era to believe that "greed is good" and unethical business practices are smart business practices. We've got a country full of aspiring Gordon Gekkos and Bill Gates, but most of them are counting on the lottery to get them there.

It has to be possible to wake people up. I won't accept that it's a lost cause, or I'd plug into the Big Buzz and while away the hours until the bomb drops.

Forgive me, but I feel the need to use a Matrix metaphor -

We're all Neos, whether we want to be or not. Part of the key to waking people up is to be the Neo at the end of movie one that understood that he made the rules, so he could fly. (Damn, I wish they'd stopped with that movie... three films and he turns out to be nothing but a software upgrade.) The Neo in the later movies fell right back into the old patterns of thinking he had to fight the agents or whatever they were with bullets. We need to choose the path no one sees yet, and be on it before they know it's there.

I don't know how we do that, but talking about it is a good start.
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TheLabRat
Advanced Member
Username: thelabrat

Post Number: 471
Registered: 1-2006
Posted on Thursday, June 29, 2006 - 1:36 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

I agree with your observations, and I hope that it is not too late. And, of course, talking about it has both it's benefits, and its dangers.

Thank you for the wishes for Buffy!
"In the end, only kindness matters."
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Morgaine
Member
Username: morgaine

Post Number: 97
Registered: 6-2006
Posted on Thursday, June 29, 2006 - 5:59 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

Hey, if I don't already have a file in DC, it's only because someone screwed up. I used to work for the government, and I was a Chief Steward with the Union. They hated me.
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TheLabRat
Advanced Member
Username: thelabrat

Post Number: 485
Registered: 1-2006
Posted on Thursday, June 29, 2006 - 7:39 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

Ouch! I can just imagine that, as a Union rep, you had a big target painted on your back!

I was never in such a "visible" position as an activist, but I was always way too vocal with my "liberal" opinions, and my "deceived" religious philosophies.

But even still, and even living here in shrub's neck of the woods, I was never so shocked as I was at the retaliation and stalking and......tagetting I received, after attending and anti-Klan rally here one year. My mother was with me, and she was targetted, as well. Both of our cars were vandalized, among other pleasant forms of "extra-judicial correction".
"In the end, only kindness matters."
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Thomas
Senior Member
Username: thomas_j_veil

Post Number: 1782
Registered: 3-2006
Posted on Thursday, June 29, 2006 - 9:14 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

(1) The power of the vicious few comes from secrecy.

(2) Secrecy of this magnitude can be contained only through the "shame" that ridicule most often implies.

(3) And ridicule is capable of containing ONLY those of us who are susceptible to it.

That's why "independent thinkers," "gay activists," and "spiritual non-theists" (and others) are such a threat to "them."

Ever wonder why the most vicious among us are SO interested in seeing to it that the "institutions of shame and ridicule" in our land are continually supported and propped up?

I believe this is at least one valid reason (in three parts) "why."

(Message edited by thomas_j_veil on June 29, 2006)
"Question what's real. Question who's real."