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kathy decker
Intermediate Member
Username: fand

Post Number: 185
Registered: 3-2011
Posted on Wednesday, December 05, 2012 - 7:34 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

It has been 25 years since a childlike visitor took me in a bubble like craft to view our earth.He explained to me that he inhabited a parallel planet, unseen to us here but very real,nonetheless. I was told to look at the arctic polar region, and that the ice was beginning to melt at an accelerated rate.
Then he said"Your world is ending...we cannot intervene."

Now I sit in my living room,watching NBC news, mainstream media, as Diane Sawyer highlights a story about the melting of the polar ice caps and climate change.

I wonder...what was meant by "your world is ending"?

My world? The end of life and convenience I have always known? Or something even more ominous?

I don 't discuss it much, interactions I have had with those clearly not of this earth. I do not have the bravery Whitley has shown, and I certainly don't want to cause my family and friends the kind of ridicule he has endured over the years for his candor.But I am telling you now, I have had enough interaction with these particular gentle, childlike beings to trust them. They, and many others of an intergalactic and multidimensional group of beings hold the human race in the highest regard.Yes,there are others that do not, and would exploit us if at all possible,but these sweet creatures live by a law of love.

So, consider this a warning.My personal world has been turned upside down by climate events in the past five years, as have the lives of many around the world.

Perhaps that is what they meant.Sudden,abrupt changes in people's lives because of odd weather caused indirectly by the melting of the arctic ice. But the sadness and concern on the face of this being hinted at something more dire, something, that at this point, may be inevitable.
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bean
Senior Member
Username: tina

Post Number: 2266
Registered: 12-2001
Posted on Wednesday, December 05, 2012 - 8:50 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

Kathy, I personally think the the others that would exploit us if at all possible... DO.

I think the non interferance mumbo jumbo is ..just that....mumbo jumbo Star Trek seriously gone wrong. I liken it to wittnessing someone getting mugged and raped in the park and doing NOTHING to stop it. What is up with that thinking?

The White Hats have my expressed PERMISSION to intervene as needed. !!

(Message edited by Tina on December 05, 2012)
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animalspirits
Senior Member
Username: animalspiritstalstarcom

Post Number: 10958
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Wednesday, December 05, 2012 - 9:10 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

Kathy,

Don't despair. The whole world will end. That said, the animals, plants, and everything else...except humans (most who still refuse the ascension)...will be fine.

They have already begun their transition. Because, as humans who believe we are the more important, we are fighting this tooth and nail.

It will happen and it will be glorious.
Understand that all things are sacred--yet nothing is sacred. ~Yotee Coyote

Website: www.ascendingabovevibration.org

Blog: animalspirits--withoutfear.blogspot.com
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enigmatic
New member
Username: enigmatic

Post Number: 9
Registered: 7-2012
Posted on Thursday, December 06, 2012 - 9:38 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

I have to wonder: why on earth would a visitor from another world take the trouble to point this out to an individual? I mean, what would be the point of doing so?
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bidaabin
Advanced Member
Username: bidaabin

Post Number: 436
Registered: 10-2010
Posted on Thursday, December 06, 2012 - 10:43 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

Enigmatic-

What Kathy describes has also happened to me. They did not show me polar ice caps however, they showed me an explosion that looked atomic. I wept terribly for the life on Earth and my visitor was by my side the entire time and I also felt love and concern emanating from him.

I do not believe we are being exploited by anyone but other humans.

There are only certain individuals that are open enough and advanced enough on a soul level to receive this information. Others would try to kill another being out of fear. This is my opinion as to individual contact.
"The only enemy that mankind has ever had, is their devotion to ignorance.." Dr. Robert Ghost Wolf

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enigmatic
New member
Username: enigmatic

Post Number: 10
Registered: 7-2012
Posted on Thursday, December 06, 2012 - 10:58 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

Again, their motivation for doing so is puzzling to me.

It might be one thing if they were presenting these cataclysmic images to world leaders (heads of state, influential politicians, eminent scientists) who might be in a position to do something to prevent such cataclysms from occurring. But just showing them to average, ordinary individuals, who have little control over such matters, would seem to do little good.

One might argue or suggest that they are indeed also showing such images to influential and powerful people, and we just don't ever hear about it. But even if so, it seems to be doing little good.

And if it isn't a matter of warning us of merely potential dangers that might yet be averted if the world is somehow galvanized into action, but instead a warning of what is now already inevitable, then again, what's the point of sharing such grim and dire news, if nothing can be done about it?

(Message edited by enigmatic on December 06, 2012)
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man in
Senior Member
Username: thirdpal

Post Number: 897
Registered: 1-2010
Posted on Thursday, December 06, 2012 - 11:21 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

interesting, Robert Monroe claims there are two planets in our solar system that we can't see due to a dimensional veil.
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susi
Senior Member
Username: etsi

Post Number: 6434
Registered: 11-2009
Posted on Thursday, December 06, 2012 - 12:55 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

well, here's my 2 cents...

the mayans and my ancestors and other native peoples, say although there will be an increase and intensity of natural catastrophies which will definately cull many humans and animal life, the planet still will continue. mother earth is just cleansing herself. the population that survives will be spiritually evolving and learn to live more balanced lives.

it's more detailed than that-but that's it in a nutshell.

bottom line, whatever happens, there's nothing we can do. edgar cayce did say, our consciousness will determine though, whether the changes will be horrendous or gentle.

when i look at how people over the world are acting, i suspect it won't be very gentle. :-(
love life and life will love you back.
-some wise cajun
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animalspirits
Senior Member
Username: animalspiritstalstarcom

Post Number: 10959
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Thursday, December 06, 2012 - 1:42 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

You are thinking with a human mind, not an alien one.
Understand that all things are sacred--yet nothing is sacred. ~Yotee Coyote

Website: www.ascendingabovevibration.org

Blog: animalspirits--withoutfear.blogspot.com
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susi
Senior Member
Username: etsi

Post Number: 6435
Registered: 11-2009
Posted on Thursday, December 06, 2012 - 2:04 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

that's right...i AM.
love life and life will love you back.
-some wise cajun
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kathy decker
Intermediate Member
Username: fand

Post Number: 186
Registered: 3-2011
Posted on Thursday, December 06, 2012 - 6:54 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

The first thing I have to say is that I don't t know if we are being exploited or not.I have certainly had some frightening experiences so I know it is a possibility.
The being that communicated to me "we cannot intervene" meant that there was nothing they could do.The climate change was inevitable at that point and there was nothing they could do to stop it. There may be other, more technical races that may know how to stop it but they also may be the ones who would exploit us and the earth.

I do not believe the world will end. Our way of life will end and there may be a drastic reduction in populations of humans and animals, but I hope it will lead to a more balanced way of life, just as Susi says.

Communication with these beings is done somehow through sympathetic spirit. Something in my spirit is in alignment with something in one of theirs.I am sure many have been shown these and other futures in this way.It is as though a dear friend of mine was privy to some information about something that was about to cause me distress and was warning me.
Perhaps world leaders sympathies lie elsewhere, or maybe some have had a similar experience but do not discuss it.I certainly do not talk about it to anyone-only when I heard of Whitley and read his book did I have any idea that things like this happened to anyone else. Talking about this sort of thing could have had you committed to an asylum back then.
I am still uncomfortable posting about it even in this forum and there is a great deal more I could share.We are incredibly complex beings capable of such greatness,yet I can see by what happened to Whitley that it is best to use the strange and amazing lessons I learned as guidelines for my spiritual growth and let others learn at their own pace.
I chose to share this one visit out of many because the time is right.

We also never know the greatness of the ones we come in touch with in our daily lives.Whitley has reached countless individuals through his writings and this forum is read by many who may be opened simply by seeing what is posted here.

My message is this-be prepared for change. Use it to grow in spirit and open your mind to new ways of sharing and learning about love.If you do pass through these times safely use what you have learned to make things easier for others who are suffering..

We all go on.I know this as fact.This earth is a precious place of learning because we do interact with darker forces here.Be strong and live in light.
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bean
Senior Member
Username: tina

Post Number: 2267
Registered: 12-2001
Posted on Thursday, December 06, 2012 - 7:44 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

Kathy...beautifully put.

I do not think the whole world will end. My thinking and intuition FEELS continuation...albeit..slow and thoughtfull. Which is a good thing. imo
I think WE have been interfered with on a cosmic level...some good, some harmful. If one adds to the mix, humans who have been influenced by "alien" thinking in a negative way..skued into thinking the demise of the human race is a necessary and agreeable answer to the problems of the universe....I would ask you....Is the CREATOR such a fool, that the promise of this human creation is.....not possible? The creators creation NOT viable?

There have been many failures in creation...faliures lead to success BECAUSE LIFE IS INTELLIGENT. We will continue.
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animalspirits
Senior Member
Username: animalspiritstalstarcom

Post Number: 10960
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Thursday, December 06, 2012 - 9:01 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

Continuation does not necessarily mean continuing in the same form we are in now...be open to change of being and you will be fine.

"We cannot intervene" does not necessarily mean that they can't intervene, but that intervention is not be best outcome for the human species as the change has already begun...it began a long time ago, prior to our current lifetime.

Of course, if one is afraid of significant change, then it is going to be a very bumpy ride for that person.
Understand that all things are sacred--yet nothing is sacred. ~Yotee Coyote

Website: www.ascendingabovevibration.org

Blog: animalspirits--withoutfear.blogspot.com
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bean
Senior Member
Username: tina

Post Number: 2268
Registered: 12-2001
Posted on Thursday, December 06, 2012 - 9:50 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

"continuation does not necessarily mean..."
I agree. However, I think the essence of what it is that has been conceived of... and created, will.

In general, I think that significent change is difficult for all life forms. ALL are conscious, and subject to the need to adapt to circunmstances that challenge what they expect.
The old addage...." The one thing you can count on is change," is true...imo. Preparing a self, recognizing the signals and adapting in what way is your nature, are/is what makes for a less bumpy ride.

It is pointless to worry. ...( although I have certainly NOT mastered THAT dept!)...I do recogniize the pointlessness of it.... Find a way to be gracious, loving, generous, faithful, helpful, forgiving, friendly, etc....These things we can give in one way or another to all that strives to have life. What else is more important at this point?
The world will eventually be as originally conceived...Despite the seeming odds.....despite our foolishness. What creator has brought together...will not be put asunder.
( I have to say that THAT is really strange of me to say....)..hey...I'm just the typer!!!!
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Mama Shine
Senior Member
Username: mama_shine

Post Number: 16218
Registered: 9-2006
Posted on Thursday, December 06, 2012 - 11:05 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

@ bean

AS said:

'You are thinking with a human mind, not an alien one.'

You say this as though it's a shame to be
human. I don't understand this.
I must create a system, or be enslaved by another man's. ~William Blake

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animalspirits
Senior Member
Username: animalspiritstalstarcom

Post Number: 10961
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Friday, December 07, 2012 - 2:22 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

MS,

No, that is not what I said. If you are communicating with an alien, you need to understand their perspective and allow for differences.

If you don't understand what I meant, I can't help you with that as you are too caught up with being human.

I never said it was a shame to be human...that is your perception, not mine.
Understand that all things are sacred--yet nothing is sacred. ~Yotee Coyote

Website: www.ascendingabovevibration.org

Blog: animalspirits--withoutfear.blogspot.com
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susi
Senior Member
Username: etsi

Post Number: 6436
Registered: 11-2009
Posted on Friday, December 07, 2012 - 10:13 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

we are pure spirits in a physical shell.

we are on mother earth to experience a physical path.

we are responsible for our own choices, destiny and outcome.

no help from aliens, angels, god or others. we alone. otherwise we will not have learned and grown and evolved spiritually on our own. having outside interference is cheating.

we think like humans because we are human. that is our experience this time around.

of course this is my personal belief.


love life and life will love you back.
-some wise cajun
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kathy decker
Intermediate Member
Username: fand

Post Number: 187
Registered: 3-2011
Posted on Friday, December 07, 2012 - 11:02 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

Of course we think with human minds, and we react with human emotions. We live in human bodies here on earth, and use them as part of the growth process.This is why I was so devastated when these changes began for me and my family,despite the knowledge given me beforehand.

The others,the alien or interdimensional beings, are also limited by their own physiology, as well as the reality they find themselves in.They are no more omnipotent than we are, and must also obey the laws of their planets /dimensions.Some have different technology than we do, and some are purely agrarian societies.

I used to call myself a traveler.Maybe the beings I connected with are travelers also, but like myself,are only a small percentage of their race.Could be that is the soul connection that brought us together.

The people who are here on earth are no more capable of intervening in changes that would take place on their planets /dimensions than they are of intervening on behalf of us, nor should we wish to.It is a learning and growth process for all of us.

Susie is correct.We are pure spirits in a physical shell...and so are the others.
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Mama Shine
Senior Member
Username: mama_shine

Post Number: 16224
Registered: 9-2006
Posted on Friday, December 07, 2012 - 5:54 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

Tears came to my eyes when I read what
susi wrote as I saw my grandmother in my
minds eye.

~~~

'we are pure spirits in a physical shell.

we are on mother earth to experience a physical path.

we are responsible for our own choices, destiny and outcome.

no help from aliens, angels, god or others. we alone. otherwise we will not have learned and grown and evolved spiritually on our own. having outside interference is cheating.

we think like humans because we are human. that is our experience this time around.

of course this is my personal belief.'

~~~


Then I heard this bit from another old song she used to sing to me.




'Well, you got to walk that lonesome valley
You got to walk it by yourselves
Nobody else can walk it for you
You got to walk it by yourselves.'
I must create a system, or be enslaved by another man's. ~William Blake

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susi
Senior Member
Username: etsi

Post Number: 6441
Registered: 11-2009
Posted on Friday, December 07, 2012 - 6:13 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

mama

my dad used to sing that when i was little. :-)
love life and life will love you back.
-some wise cajun
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kathy decker
Intermediate Member
Username: fand

Post Number: 189
Registered: 3-2011
Posted on Friday, December 07, 2012 - 11:30 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

I think help is available to us-in the forms of angels, prayers, the creator and other spiritual means. I have asked for help on many occasions.

I worked on an Alzheimer's and dementia unit in a nursing home, and I try to help others as much as I can.

Of course we should give aid and accept it whenever possible.

I just never got the impression that any of the other beings I interacted with were able to help us with our problems here on earth, any more than I could help them on their home planet/dimension.They are not omnipotent but mortal just as we are.
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bean
Senior Member
Username: tina

Post Number: 2271
Registered: 12-2001
Posted on Saturday, December 08, 2012 - 7:42 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

I deleted my above post. Too long! Will try again later.
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enigmatic
New member
Username: enigmatic

Post Number: 11
Registered: 7-2012
Posted on Thursday, December 13, 2012 - 7:06 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

Kathy, was there any hint of a time frame, or of the direct contributing cause(s), or of precisely how this "ending" might unfold, or of any other more specific details, when this ominous statement was conveyed to you?
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bean
Senior Member
Username: tina

Post Number: 2273
Registered: 12-2001
Posted on Friday, December 14, 2012 - 10:57 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

Well, I guess the point I wanted to make has made a circle in regards to todays news.

HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

WTH?
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kathy decker
Intermediate Member
Username: fand

Post Number: 192
Registered: 3-2011
Posted on Saturday, December 22, 2012 - 2:28 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

Enigmatic, no, no time frame other than it had already begun.The message was conveyed without words, a knowing transpired between us that it was happening.And it is..the ice is melting.I did not see what the effect would be..only the knowledge that the world I was accustomed to would end.
Sorry..that is all there is.
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enigmatic
New member
Username: enigmatic

Post Number: 13
Registered: 7-2012
Posted on Sunday, December 23, 2012 - 10:08 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

Okay, thanks. I'd also be interested (as would many others here, I suspect) in hearing about any other sorts of related messages you might have received at other times, if any.
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blue
Senior Member
Username: jennyblue

Post Number: 1319
Registered: 3-2007
Posted on Monday, December 24, 2012 - 7:07 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

I had a very vivid and intense dream several years back in which I saw the earth splitting into 2 earths and separating (kinda like pulling apart from one another). Kinda like fission of a cell. In the dream, one earth was vibrant and alive and the other earth was gray and reminded me of a husk. The gray earth just kinda fell away from the vibrant earth.

(Message edited by jennyblue on December 24, 2012)
We are the ones we've been waiting for.
Hopi Elders 2001.

to be a rock and still to roll . . .
change we can believe in is here -- The Ed Show
Love is the Way ~ Jesus of Nazareth
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kathy decker
Advanced Member
Username: fand

Post Number: 213
Registered: 3-2011
Posted on Thursday, February 21, 2013 - 2:43 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

As I look at the choices we are making here on Earth, I do wonder that perhaps we are creating our own hell. In War of the Worlds (the movie) the alien invaders actually went about changing the environment in a particularly hideous manner.
We were given a beautiful planet, with wondrous creatures to enjoy, and could have created hobbit-like villages in an agrarian society, being one with the Earth instead of setting ourselves against it.
Instead, in our greed and hostility, we chose to try to beat this paradise, this Garden of Eden, into an industrial abbatoir.
Maybe in the future mankind will learn to inhabit the planet, instead of trying to conquor it. Then the gray husk of the old will fall away, allowing the vibrance of the true Earth to shine through.
One can only hope.
I know it is possible tor I have visited a world where harmony reigns, a green world.
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bidaabin
Advanced Member
Username: bidaabin

Post Number: 470
Registered: 10-2010
Posted on Thursday, February 21, 2013 - 3:52 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

Kathy-
We have people here on this planet that know how to live in harmony with our beautiful planet. They are called Indigenous and are being exterminated at this minute in many places including the Amazon rainforest. If you want to live in harmony with the planet and have clean water and land for future generations look into the Idle No More Movement. The Indigenous of both the US and Canada are fighting hard to protect our future generations. We welcome anyone whom loves the Earth to join us.
"The only enemy that mankind has ever had, is their devotion to ignorance.." Dr. Robert Ghost Wolf

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kathy decker
Advanced Member
Username: fand

Post Number: 227
Registered: 3-2011
Posted on Friday, March 08, 2013 - 12:10 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

I am familiar with the Idle No More Movement.

Unfortunately, those who insist on ruining our home have a different agenda.I fear it will take an event of enormous consequence to bring the problem to the attention of the world population.

The Indigenous will always be with us, indeed, I believe they are "the meek "who will inherit the earth.

Whitley has recently brought up the subject of the earth being a prison. I do not know anything about that, but I do believe it is possible that events here are being dictated by another race whose plan is to gain control through the manipulation of our resources.
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Buddie
Senior Member
Username: buddie

Post Number: 5886
Registered: 3-2008
Posted on Friday, March 08, 2013 - 9:23 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

I cant blame you
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Mark A. Foster
Junior Member
Username: markfoster

Post Number: 60
Registered: 2-2013
Posted on Monday, March 18, 2013 - 3:07 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

Angels, whether departed souls or transterrestrials, have been warning us about these Earth changes for decades - including through contact experiences and crop circles.

IMHO, the world we have all known here is about to end. However, what lies on the other side for this planet will be much, much better.

Mark
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bidaabin
Senior Member
Username: bidaabin

Post Number: 507
Registered: 10-2010
Posted on Monday, March 18, 2013 - 2:29 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

Kathy-
I agree with Whitley. Not that it is a prison being run by the ET's, more that our collective failure to respect each other and our planet will keep us from joining the galactic family.

How in the hell can we expect to be allowed to leave this planet and colonize another when the people whom would be able to go would be of the military-industrial mindset that would seek to conquer and make money?

If we ruin this planet, do you really think we should be allowed to leave it only to destroy another?

Indigenous people around the globe know how to live with our Mother Earth. I cannot stress enough that non-Indians should not feel threatened by IDLE NO MORE as we are doing this for the next 7 generations of all people. The Earth sustains everyone and we all need her equally.
"The only enemy that mankind has ever had, is their devotion to ignorance.." Dr. Robert Ghost Wolf

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Sharon2
Senior Member
Username: sharon2468

Post Number: 4730
Registered: 8-2004
Posted on Friday, March 22, 2013 - 10:16 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

Some people on earth can be... creative, kind, empathetic, wonderful and amazing!

Others can be.... greedy, selfish, obnoxious, attention seeking, morons.

The kind people of the world need to speak out and become pro-active.
So the obnoxious people will not continue to call the shots!

"The empty vessel makes the loudest noise"
Our life is determined by the choices we make!
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kathy decker
Advanced Member
Username: fand

Post Number: 275
Registered: 3-2011
Posted on Wednesday, April 10, 2013 - 2:41 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

I certainly agree!
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Jeff Moore
Junior Member
Username: ahriman

Post Number: 72
Registered: 5-2004
Posted on Thursday, May 16, 2013 - 11:42 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

Please have a look at this link:

http://www.transients.info/p/webbot.html

Here is discussed what's come to be known as the Global Coastal Event that is, according to the predictions, due to manifest within days from now. This will be the beginning of major earth change due to high energy solar emission. I generally take such things with a grain of salt, but in this case I'm not so sure.
Clif High (pseudonym) developed predictive software to track markets but later found that other more interesting data was being generated from the enormous amounts of information his webbots were combing through. This led to the website Half Past Human, where he has been presenting reports for years now, based on the information culled from datastreams on the internet. Download his two recent installments (mp3) and take a listen. "Transients.info" (not associated with Clif High) seems to be an unofficial clearing house for all things GCE. It all appears pretty ominous, especially as more and more corroborating information from a variety of sources trickles in. And, just to make it more interesting, he has confirmed this information with the services of two professional remote viewing groups.
There is a detailed description of the predictive methodology to be found there.

(Message edited by ahriman on May 16, 2013)
I came, I saw, I left.
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Mark A. Foster
Advanced Member
Username: markfoster

Post Number: 225
Registered: 2-2013
Posted on Friday, May 17, 2013 - 3:12 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

Jeff:

Either way, this will likely be the end of Clif High's work.

If it happens, which I personally doubt, then the world will be a different place. People will have a lot more to do than pay attention to the Web Bot.

If it doesn't happen, I suspect that most of Clif High's audience will look elsewhere.

High says that he may or may not release another wujo (MP3) this weekend.

He is now also predicting what he calls "solar tiger days" between now and the end of the month. As he says on the main page of his website, "So sorry to report": www.halfpasthuman.com/
Cheers, Mark
Portal to 29 domains: http://www.markfoster.net
Radio Show: http://www.markalanfoster.com
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Mark A. Foster
Advanced Member
Username: markfoster

Post Number: 226
Registered: 2-2013
Posted on Friday, May 17, 2013 - 3:21 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

Jeff:

In both cases the corroborations came from Courtney Brown's Farsight group. In the second case, Brown used some remote viewers in Hawaii after Clif High "commissioned" the work.

IMO, it is really impossible for we humans to predict the future. Countless people have made apocalyptic statements. None have panned out.

As I see it, all that exists in the future, from a human perspective, is a sea of probabilities. Therefore, any change at all (and there are constant changes) will result in a different outcome.
Cheers, Mark
Portal to 29 domains: http://www.markfoster.net
Radio Show: http://www.markalanfoster.com
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Jeff Moore
Junior Member
Username: ahriman

Post Number: 73
Registered: 5-2004
Posted on Friday, May 17, 2013 - 9:44 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

Thanks Mark. You have made a salient observation in that whatever the outcome, this will most likely the end of Clif High's prognosticating. I believe he made that prediction for himself as well. It doesn't seem he's done it for the money, in any case. As far as not being able to predict the future, many people throughout history have received premonitions about events that did ultimately occur. I guess this isn't the same thing as making a prediction, though.

(Message edited by ahriman on May 17, 2013)
I came, I saw, I left.
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Mark A. Foster
Advanced Member
Username: markfoster

Post Number: 229
Registered: 2-2013
Posted on Friday, May 17, 2013 - 3:17 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

Jeff:

Yep. Here is his newest wujo (just released):

http://www.halfpasthuman.com/wujo/clifswujo5172013quavers.mp3
Cheers, Mark
Portal to 29 domains: http://www.markfoster.net
Radio Show: http://www.markalanfoster.com
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anna
Senior Member
Username: anna

Post Number: 3544
Registered: 9-2002
Posted on Friday, August 09, 2013 - 5:39 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

It's funny thinking that- "world leaders (heads of state, influential politicians, eminent scientists)" would actually do anything. Most high up are with the powers that be and only worry about maintaining control. I'm reading Hogues new predictions book and it talks alot about the atmosphere. Once that changes to a certain extent, as Ripley stated in Aliens, "you can kiss all this goodbye!" That's not necessarily a bad thing. We're all light and energy as the earth is. Living in a physical body I'd like to continue for a while still, BUT if not that's ok too. There's a much bigger drama being played out, and I'm in like the rest of you...
http://energy-creations.blogspot.com/

To insist that the only reality are phenomenon that can be submitted to the paradigm of classical science is itself a religion- Dietrick Thomson
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bean
Senior Member
Username: tina

Post Number: 2501
Registered: 12-2001
Posted on Sunday, August 18, 2013 - 11:34 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

concerning prophecy...


A thing I find interesting, paticularly when one takes a stab at interpreting information given....through personal contact, or through intertreting someone elses predictions...is....

In general, I think BIG events don't just happen overnight. Like an artist chipping away on the marble, it's the small unnoticed tap, tap tapping away that eventually leads to the Big Event....We tend to not notice...don't even realize usually, what is coming down the pike because we are looking for that extreme example predicted on a day that seems to pass without incident. People tend to make a huge sigh of relief, and continue on as before....and throw the baby out with the bath water.

Personal freedoms are chizzled away in small little baby steps until one day we wake up and find we have none left.

Pressures deep with in the earth, continue to grow...sometimes for ages until one day they release and wreck havoc on top.

The process of weather..the ebb and flow of mother nature doing what she does...step by step...just the right little temps over here....over there, building into some grand conclusion.

All small steps....leading eventually to a grand conclusion....one way or another.

I think scriptures don't give dates because of the subtlety of "movement" cannot be easily determined. The Big Picture is made frame by frame..and takes however much time it needs
to become the hopeful Oscar of the year.

The proof is in the details...hard to see, hard to keep up with...darn it...
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anna
Senior Member
Username: anna

Post Number: 3556
Registered: 9-2002
Posted on Tuesday, August 20, 2013 - 12:02 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

Bean, yes you're right- it's a process. We all participate weather we want to our not on some level. We have raging fires nearby, smoke in the sky. This may be the "new normal".
http://energy-creations.blogspot.com/

To insist that the only reality are phenomenon that can be submitted to the paradigm of classical science is itself a religion- Dietrick Thomson
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Mark A. Foster
Senior Member
Username: markfoster

Post Number: 532
Registered: 2-2013
Posted on Tuesday, August 20, 2013 - 1:56 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

I agree that the world is ending. Public bureaucrats are doing what they can to hold it together. The problem, IMO, is that, instead of turning to unity as the solution, these people have turned to surveillance. It won't work.
Cheers, Mark
Portal to 29 domains: http://www.markfoster.net
Radio Show: http://www.markalanfoster.com
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bean
Senior Member
Username: tina

Post Number: 2503
Registered: 12-2001
Posted on Tuesday, August 20, 2013 - 9:36 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

"What a world....What a world." A damn shame.

World War 11 had many nations to fight against the corruption of Hitler's mentality on earth.....even so it was close. Who is going to play hero for the world when "all nations under God, become as fodder for the beasts of No reason?...No compassion? No conscious respect for life at any level? Who?

The bureaucrats turn to surveillance because they are not interested in fixing the problems...they are interested in keeping control, period. In general, they will continue as a snowball speeds downhill. Grab what they can, steal what they can, destroy as necessary, until at some point ( I hope) they are stopped by the unmoveable object at the bottom of the hill. jmo
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A Brother
Senior Member
Username: upaava

Post Number: 998
Registered: 5-2003
Posted on Tuesday, August 20, 2013 - 2:54 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

Nakwa kathy, Tutskwa I'qatsi,

I'siwa, I am entering this discussion late, but would like to reply to your first post, where you mention you were told that "our world is ending."

Our knowledge also holds that our world is ending, but that there will be a wonderful Earth to follow. So, what you were told can be true as far as it goes. Your source (assuming that he/she knew) may have chosen to omit what follows the end of our presnet (Fourth) world, or you may not have remembered it after awakening.

In any case, from the Hopi perspective, a wonderful future awaits those children of the Earth who will always trust in Her, remaining immovable unto the end of this purification cycle.

I hope you will be of good cheer, enjoying the world given to us as mother and home.

With love and respect,
Your brother Hohongwitutiwa
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Mark A. Foster
Senior Member
Username: markfoster

Post Number: 533
Registered: 2-2013
Posted on Tuesday, August 20, 2013 - 6:07 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

Hohongwitutiwa,

I agree. However, it will be a long process. I think that we will end up, involuntarily, in a very localized world. Gradually, we will rebuild.
Cheers, Mark
Portal to 29 domains: http://www.markfoster.net
Radio Show: http://www.markalanfoster.com
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Mark A. Foster
Senior Member
Username: markfoster

Post Number: 534
Registered: 2-2013
Posted on Tuesday, August 20, 2013 - 6:14 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

Tina:

Bureaucracies are generally resistant of change. However, change is what we need.
Cheers, Mark
Portal to 29 domains: http://www.markfoster.net
Radio Show: http://www.markalanfoster.com
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bean
Senior Member
Username: tina

Post Number: 2505
Registered: 12-2001
Posted on Tuesday, August 20, 2013 - 8:40 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

...absolutely, Mark....absolutely..
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Mama Shine
Senior Member
Username: mama_shine

Post Number: 17601
Registered: 9-2006
Posted on Tuesday, August 20, 2013 - 9:19 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fFGQ-UCbF5I
The greatest thing you'll ever learn
Is just to love and be loved in return.
~Nature Boy

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Michael Smith
Junior Member
Username: by_name_only

Post Number: 56
Registered: 7-2013
Posted on Sunday, September 01, 2013 - 4:26 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

Other abductees have reported being given similar messages. Check out this rare television appearance by the late, Pulitzer prize winning and UFO abduction pioneer, Harvard psychiatrist Dr John E Mack. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cnZfMWi3D30 The last abductee to talk, Joe, states "this world your living in is dying". That same man was on the great, short lived series "Sightings". There he was quoted as saying their message is (the aliens) "wake up, grow up, there is no reason for you to be this afraid" (referring to the collective behavior of the human race), and "this sandbox that your littering is not your own".

In Dr Mack's book "Abduction Human Encounters With Aliens", he presents various case studies of abductees he had regressed hypnotically. Joe's experience is given in detail in the chapter "deliverance from the insane asylum". Like so many other abductees, the focus of their experience seems to be on reproduction and creating a hybrid species. Pg 176 "Reproductive acts like this, Joe said, are 'necessary' so that 'humans aren't lost in their race and their seed and their knowledge,' for 'human beings are in trouble....A storm is brewing,' an 'electromagnetic' catastrophe resulting from the 'negative' technology human beings have created."

The woman he was made to copulate with was named Adrianna. "Adrianna's fertilized seed, for example, might be taken 'back out of her' and 'then we'll grow a baby that's got a lot of human in it' and 'raise it' as 'one of our own'...If the humans totally die-we have their children". "Joe spoke sadly of the inevitable further deterioration of the earth. Many humans will die, he said, but the species will not be eradicated". The case study suggests that many abductees have had past lives and their souls reincarnate and they have came to this earth, which does in fact seem like an insane asylum, voluntarily.

The implication is that all this effort that has been put into this hybrid program is that we, as a species, act out of fear, which brings out primitive behavior in people (violence, greed, hatred, territorialism, selfishness, and other destructive tendencies) and that we are not the sole reason for being on the earth despite our delusions of conquering nature and that we are no longer viable as a species. Here is one link that addresses resource depletion and the collapse of the ecosystems on this planet http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dI6SLbQ3VLI

Then I will provide more quotes from the other case studies that put all the pieces of the puzzle together.
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Michael Smith
Junior Member
Username: by_name_only

Post Number: 59
Registered: 7-2013
Posted on Sunday, September 01, 2013 - 5:18 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

11 of the 15 world's largest fisheries gone. The choral reef systems dying, the rain forest being destroyed, entire species becoming extinct at an unprecedented rate, 90% of fish like tuna depleted, the marine life that is left is always under assault and not safe for human consumption (levels of mercury are rising as China and India burn more and more coal, which will also acidify the world's oceans). The permafrost and the Alaskan tundra melting with the ice caps, releasing tons and tons of methane gas, which have 20 times the greenhouse effect of carbon emissions. In a few decades, the most densely populated area of the US, the eastern seaboard, will be under water. Toss in the droughts, floods, wild fires, killer hurricanes, and a Gulf Oil spill, and a few nuclear disasters (Chernobyl and the one being covered up at Fukushima), the new plagues, epidemics, and new strains of antibiotic resistant diseases, declining fertility in men, kill off the bees....shut down the Gulf Stream while fossil fuels deplete forever by the middle of this century, it is not at all hard to see that our world is in fact dying. There is no way 8 billion people can thrive in the decades to come. Mass starvation as a painful die off whittles the human population back down to its natural carrying capacity. The question is, will we kill off all life on the planet as we demise, or is their some divine intervention going to stop us as we self destruct?
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Michael Smith
Junior Member
Username: by_name_only

Post Number: 62
Registered: 7-2013
Posted on Tuesday, September 03, 2013 - 1:57 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

So abductees are given apocalyptic messages and images of disasters that they describe as terrifying. The aliens insist "this is happening in your future" and that "major earth changes are on the way".

2012 came and went and the so called Mayan prophecy did not occur on December 21st-22nd. However, the earth's magnetic fields continue to shift while that of the sun's are now occurring and "baffling" to scientists http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/13/sun-magnetic-field-reversal-scientific- mystery_n_3748515.html

In relative size, the earth is roughly the size of a golf ball on a football field (the sun).

Each average solar flare has the energy equivalent of 200 million hydrogen bombs. Travelling over 60 million miles at the speed of light, these solar flares or CMEs are deflected to the poles by the earth's magnetic fields, resulting in the "Northern lights".

Before the magnetic fields of either the sun or the earth reverse, they shut down. If the earth's magnetic fields shut down or weaken at a time when solar flares increase in intensity and frequency, then the life on earth, "your world" may indeed be ending.

Internet rumors that the US government may be preparing for a "direct hit", and electromagnetic burst that would totally fry the world's electric grid system, seem to be verified by this link http://www.davidicke.com/headlines/90092-us-government-preparing-for-power-grid- shutdown

Imagine clean drinking water, the ability pump gas and thus have transportaion, have heat/air conditioning, lighting, the electricity necessary to run hospitals and medical equipment, etc and taking at least 10 years to repair.

The scientists are not aware of what exactly will happen when the sun's magnetic fields reverse soon. The event only happens every 10 thousand years or so. The last time the magnetic fields of the sun and earth reversed with roughly 60 million years ago, when the dinosaurs were wiped out.

Others say it goes for beyond just frying the world's grid system. The earth's core could get pulled from its present rotation which is in unison with the relatively thin crust which we inhabit to the new direction that the sun has taken, resulting in the scenes abductees are shown....massive earthquakes, volcanic activity, tidal waves, wind storms, hurricanes, etc

The crust continues to spin in the old, "wrong" direction, detached from its master, the core. Suppose an area or land mass the size of California suddenly due to subduction forces drops, say 30 miles (which is a minor blip on the potential radar screen given how thin the crust is compared to the core and mantle) due to the core becoming unstable, pulled by the magnetism of the sun's poles reversing, then that land mass drops, and the oceans rush in to fill the void....the tsunamis from the earthquakes themselves aside)

The land masses on the crust which we know as continents could get shifted or pulled with the magnetic reversal of the sun which would affect the core, resulting in swift and sudden changes in latitude. Life that spent eons of time adapting to a certain climate would be in a new one that it has no ability or time to adapt to.

This indeed would be the result of "our world ending", and would affirm the apocalyptic images abductees have been given and would result in the destruction of present human civilization to a point where we would no longer be able to shoot at the aliens, we would admit defeat and welcome their intervention.

Just some thoughts to chew on, especially if anyone contemplated for many years what all this talk of major earth changes, an electromagnetic catastrophe, and geological and meteorological convulsions meant. I can provide many more quotes and links if people care to see for themselves
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Jill
Member
Username: jill

Post Number: 86
Registered: 3-2005
Posted on Tuesday, September 03, 2013 - 7:32 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

I sometimes wonder if the reason there is so much anxiety and depression in our populace is that somewhere inside we know this is coming.
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Mark A. Foster
Senior Member
Username: markfoster

Post Number: 558
Registered: 2-2013
Posted on Wednesday, September 04, 2013 - 2:06 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

Disunity requires unity.
Cheers, Mark
Portal to 29 domains: http://www.markfoster.net
Radio Show: http://www.markalanfoster.com
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blue
Senior Member
Username: jennyblue

Post Number: 1415
Registered: 3-2007
Posted on Wednesday, September 04, 2013 - 10:09 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

Ancient prophecies say that we are entering a whole new era of understanding and cooperation on earth. For whatever reason, those prophecies have not gotten much PR during the last 5000 years. It is said that those of us moving into this bright future will never look at time the same way again.

imo, There is an ending -- like a snake shedding its skin. The dire prophecies are for those who are living their lives in the skin of the snake -- rather than the heart. People who live their lives trying to control others and others' worlds will be cast off by the earth. People who live their lives willingly enthralled by others because they fear to act independently shall be cast off as well. The hell-like prophecies of doom are not for the survivors.
We are the ones we've been waiting for.
Hopi Elders 2001.

to be a rock and still to roll . . .
change we can believe in is here -- The Ed Show
Love is the Way ~ Jesus of Nazareth
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Michael Smith
Member
Username: by_name_only

Post Number: 77
Registered: 7-2013
Posted on Saturday, September 14, 2013 - 6:57 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

If you read a book called The Watchers by Ray Fowler, it describes a future where many people starve and die from plagues and conflicts, which confirms the peak oil/resource depletion theory that I have beaten to death. I am convinced of it, others will believe what they will. The effort has been made to try and warn people so they can prepare....consume less, become more self sufficient, live closer together and try to be a little nicer to each other (good luck with that one).

According to one of the abductees in that book, the human soul will eventually reach that plane or fifth dimension you speak of, but that time is not close at hand. The abductee said something like "there will be those that have, and those that have not. Many people will starve, and there will be much conflict as the human form renders itself sterile from disease and other terrible things on the earth"

8 billion souls on the planet by the middle of this century when all fossil fuels will deplete forever. The "green revolution" was made possible only by the discovery and use of fossil fuels and allowed the earth's carrying capacity to swell from its pre-industrial level of 1 billion people to its present population of 7 billion, expected to reach 8 billion by the middle of this century.

People could try to mitigate this impending disaster now voluntarily or let nature runs its course, which would not be pretty as there will be a die off of at least 7 billion souls. Technology will not prevent this from happening. I am glad I won't be around to see it. I feel so badly for these children that play on my street, their future is very bleak at best.
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da~an
Senior Member
Username: daan

Post Number: 7095
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Monday, September 30, 2013 - 9:55 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

http://www.halfpasthuman.com/essays/enzymes.html

over the past few days i was wondering if there
was something slightly erratic happening in terms of
the sun. something just short of a big snap like the
heat spike before the YOUNGER DRYAS but tied into
many swings + fluxuations before a mild winter...
"up"
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da~an
Senior Member
Username: daan

Post Number: 7096
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Monday, September 30, 2013 - 10:02 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

almost like as if the air currents are vectoring
zigzag in unexpected ways but the total picture
despite these curious atypical fluxes is not at an
asymmetry that could send things down a dire path.
i'm expecting an uptick in ufo activity due to our
freaky and erratic weather, this has a charles fort
feel to it. our politics is cooling down from the major
confrontation over syria, and the budget showdown
has reporters on the hill focused on it, but its truly
not d.c that is to be the major story. its the sun...
"up"
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da~an
Senior Member
Username: daan

Post Number: 7098
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Thursday, October 03, 2013 - 6:55 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

the comet approaches...
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2209293/Comet-brighter-moon-fly-E arth-2013.html

it is also a story on U.C's news section...
http://www.unknowncountry.com/news/unknowncountry-weekender-coming-comet-ison-as tronomy-and-astrology
in a more superstitious age, this would be seen
as a celestial line of demarcation...
http://science.discovery.com/video-topics/space-videos/the-comets-tale-isaac-new ton.htm
"up"
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Michael Smith
Intermediate Member
Username: by_name_only

Post Number: 141
Registered: 7-2013
Posted on Thursday, October 24, 2013 - 5:25 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

I got to reflecting on Kathy's initial post on this. If our government or other governments knew the Gulf stream was shutting down, would they warn us or just let it happen knowing we would panic?

As depicted in the movie "The Day After Tomorrow", people take for granted the role the Gulf Stream plays in our literal survival.

From the book "The Long Emergency" by peak oil theorist and intellectual James Howard Kunstler, in the chapter "Nature Bites Back"...."The Gulf Stream is an idiosyncratic feature of hemispheric topography that allows the transfer of huge amounts of tropical warmth from the Gulf of Mexico to northern Europe, making that region superbly hospitable to human settlement. Without the Gulf Stream, Britain, France, the Low Countries, and Scandinavia would have a climate like Labrador's, colder by twenty degrees Fahrenheit in annual mean. The Gulf Stream has been likened to an oceanic conveyor belt. The force of warm water flowing north has been described as equal to the volume of seventy-five Amazon rivers. This powerful churn is also thought to affect the behavior of currents as far away as the Pacific and Indian oceans.

The conveyor belt works because the chemical and physical properties of the water at each end differ slightly. The warm waters from the Gulf Stream move northward, propelled by the earth's rotation. These waters are already unusually salty, because in warmer latitudes surface water evaporates more readily. By the time the north-flowing Gulf stream bumps up against Greenland and Iceland, the water has shed much of its original warmth. The cooler water is now saltier, denser, and heavier. It sinks with enough velocity to push back south again as a deep-water current. Meanwhile, back in the Gulf of Mexico, more warm surface water begins its journey north on the conveyor belt. The process is continuous.

There is evidence that global warming today is causing ice sheets in the far north to melt, sending large quantities of freshwater into the North Atlantic where the cooling, dense, salt-heavy waters make their plunge to return south. The fresh melt water dilutes the cold salt water, making it less dense, less heavy. It is feared that this will impede its sinking, and thus slow the conveyor belt of the Gulf Stream. There is, in fact, evidence that the cold water flow has weakened by 20 percent in recent years.

A crucial aspect of the problem is that a seemingly slight salinity differential between the warm and cold currents-one part per thousand-is all that it takes to drive this gigantic, natural mega-machine of the Gulf Stream. It might not take much in the way of temperature change to alter it either, even to push it over a threshold that would abort the circulation altogether, shut it off.

The implications of this event are staggering. Europe and North America will experience one unusually cold, brutal winter, then the spring that is cooler and late in coming, a mild summer that ends sooner than it should, followed by another brutal winter. Then the spring/summer with high temperatures in the 50s. Masses of people try to migrate southward, the growing season all but eliminated in these regions.

The coal and natural gas that people used to heat their homes become scarce or non existent. Those who do not starve to death succumb to the elements. Resource wars escalate, most of the fingers pointed at the US, being the number one consumer of hydrocarbon based fuels, Europe, in an act of desperation, attempts to detonate nuclear bombs in the Atlantic to restart the Gulf Stream. It doesn't work, it backfires (one of the prophecies shown to Dannion Brinkley in his near death experience)

The radiation leaks from Fukushima render marine life inedible. Your world is in fact ending. Not just your fossil fuel powered way of modern industrial life, but the planet itself is no longer able to produce the food needed to feed 8 billion people. In short, we rendered the planet uninhabitable. They cannot intervene because if they did, we would only self destruct...again, again, and again. Rather, they are here to ensure the human form is not lost. In our present form and way of doing things, we have become a malignancy on a cosmic level. The present human experiment failed. End of story
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Michael Smith
Intermediate Member
Username: by_name_only

Post Number: 145
Registered: 7-2013
Posted on Thursday, October 24, 2013 - 10:24 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

Here is an eloquent articulation of why your world is ending. Not just the Gulf Stream per se, but again, human activity, resource depletion, and climate change From www.cluborlov.com Tuesday, October 22, 2013




The Sixth Stage of Collapse









"I admit it: in my last book, The Five Stages of Collapse, I viewed collapse through rose-colored glasses. But I feel that I should be forgiven for this; it is human nature to try to be optimistic no matter what. Also, as an engineer, I am always looking for solutions to problems. And so I almost subconsciously crafted a scenario where industrial civilization fades away quickly enough to save what's left of the natural realm, allowing some remnant of humanity to make a fresh start.
Ideally, it would start of with a global financial collapse triggered by a catastrophic loss of confidence in the tools of globalized finance. That would swiftly morph into commercial collapse, caused by global supply chain disruption and cross-contagion. As business activity grinds to a halt and tax revenues dwindle to zero, political collapse wipes most large-scale political entities off the map, allowing small groups of people to revert to various forms of anarchic, autonomous self-governance. Those groups that have sufficient social cohesion, direct access to natural resources, and enough cultural wealth (in the form of face-to-face relationships and oral traditions) would survive while the rest swiftly perish.




Of course, there are problems even with this scenario. Take, for instance, the problem of Global Dimming. The phenomenon is well understood: sunlight reflected back into space by the atmospheric aerosols and particulates generated by burning fossil fuels reduces the average global temperature by well over a degree Celsius. (The cessation of all air traffic over the continental US in the wake of the terrorist attacks of 9/11 has allowed climate scientists to measure this effect.) If industrial activity were to suddenly cease, average global temperatures would be jolted upward toward the two degree Celsius mark which is widely considered to be very, very bad indeed. Secondly, even if all industrial activity were to cease tomorrow, global warming, 95% of which is attributed to human activity in the latest (rather conservative and cautious) IPCC report, would continue apace for the better part of the next millennium, eventually putting the Earth's climate in a mode unprecedented during all of human existence as a species.




On such a planet, where the equatorial ocean is hotter than a hot tub and alligators thrive in the high Arctic, our survival as a species is far from assured. Still, let's look at things optimistically. We are an adaptable lot. Yes, the seas will rise and inundate the coastal areas which over half of us currently inhabit. Yes, farmland further inland will become parched and blow away, or be washed away by the periodic torrential rains. Yes, the tropics, followed by the temperate latitudes, become so hot that everyone living there will succumb of heat stroke. But if this process takes a few centuries, then some of the surviving bands and tribes might find a way to migrate further north and learn to survive there by eking out some sort of existence in balance with what remains of the ecosystem.




We can catch glimpses of what such survival might look like by reading history. When Captain James Cook landed on the shore of Western Australia, he was the first white man to encounter aboriginal Australians, who had up to that point persisted in perfect isolation for something like 40.000 years. (They arrived in Australia at about the same time as the Cromagnons displaced the Neanderthals in Europe.) They spoke a myriad different languages and dialects, having no opportunity and no use for any sort of unity. They wore no clothes and used tiny makeshift huts for shelter. They had few tools beyond a digging stick for finding edible roots and a gig for catching fish. They had no hoards or stockpiles, and did not keep even the most basic supplies from one day to the next. They had little regard for material objects of any sort, were not interested in trade, and while they accepted clothes and other items they were given as presents, they threw them away as soon as Cook and his crew were out of sight.




They were, Cook noted in his journal, entirely inoffensive. But a few actions of Cook's men did enrage them. They were scandalized by the sight of birds being caught and placed in cages, and demanded their immediate release. Imprisoning anyone, animal or person, was to them taboo. They were even more incensed when they saw Cook's men catch not just one, but several turtles. Turtles are slow-breeding, and it is easy to wipe out their local population by indiscriminate poaching, which is why they only allowed the turtles to be taken one at a time, and only by a specially designated person who bore responsibility for the turtles' welfare.




Cook thought them primitive, but he was ignorant of their situation. Knowing what we know, they seem quite advanced. Living on a huge but arid and mostly barren island with few native agriculturally useful plants and no domesticable animals, they understood that their survival was strictly by the grace of the surrounding natural realm. To them, the birds and the turtles were more important than they were, because these animals could survive without them, but they could not survive without these animals.




Speaking of being primitive, here is an example of cultural primitivism writ large. At the Age of Limits conference earlier this year, at one point the discussion turned to the question of why the natural realm is worth preserving even at the cost of human life. (For instance, is it OK to go around shooting poachers in national parks even if it means that their families starve to death?) One fellow, who rather self-importantly reclined in a chaise lounge directly in front of the podium, stated his opinion roughly as follows: “It is worth sacrificing every single animal out there in order to save even a single human life!” It took my breath away. This thought is so primitive that my brain spontaneously shut down every time I tried to formulate a response to it. After struggling with it for a bit, here is what I came up with.




Is it worth destroying the whole car for the sake of saving the steering wheel? What use is a steering wheel without a car? Well, I suppose, if you are particularly daft or juvenile, you can use it to pretend that you still have a car, running around with it and making “vroom-vroom!” noises... Let's look at this question from an economic perspective, which is skewed by the fact that economists tend view the natural realm in terms of its economic value. This is similar to you looking at your own body in terms of its nutritional content, and whether it would make good eating. Even when viewed from this rather bizarre perspective that treats our one and only living planet as a storehouse of commodities to be plundered, it turns out that most of our economic “wealth” is made possible by “ecosystem services” which are provided free of charge.




These include water clean enough to drink, air clean enough to breathe, a temperature-controlled environment that is neither too cold nor too hot for human survival across much of the planet, forests that purify and humidify the air and moderate surface temperatures, ocean currents that moderate climate extremes making it possible to practice agriculture, oceans (formerly) full of fish, predators that keep pest populations from exploding and so on. If we were forced to provide these same services on a commercial basis, we'd be instantly bankrupt, and then, in short order, extinct. The big problem with us living on other planets is not that it's physically impossible—though it may be—it's that there is no way we could afford it. If we take natural wealth into account when looking at economic activity, it turns out that we consistently destroy much more wealth than we create: the economy is mostly a negative-sum game. Next, it turns out that we don't really understand how these “ecosystem services” are maintained, beyond realizing that it's all very complicated and highly interconnected in surprising and unexpected ways. Thus, the good fellow at the conference who was willing to sacrifice all other species for the sake of his own could never be quite sure that the species he is willing to sacrifice doesn't include his own."
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Michael Smith
Intermediate Member
Username: by_name_only

Post Number: 146
Registered: 7-2013
Posted on Thursday, October 24, 2013 - 10:55 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

The blog goes on to explain our sterility and destruction of the earth in eloquent and irrefutable detail. This man is not a UFO researcher, a politician, and has no other agenda than to warn us, as he feels it is his civic duty to do so. "


In addition, it bears remembering that we are, in fact, sacrificing our species, and have been for centuries, for the sake of something we call “progress.” Aforementioned Captain Cook sailed around the Pacific “discovering” islands that the Polynesians had discovered many centuries earlier, his randy, drunken, greedy sailors spreading venereal disease, alcoholism and corruption, and leaving ruin in their wake wherever they went. After the plague of sailors came the plague of missionaries, who made topless Tahitian women wear “Mother Hubbards” and tried to outlaw fornication. The Tahitians, being a sexually advanced culture, had a few dozen different terms for fornication, relating to a variety of sex acts. Thus the missionaries had a problem: banning any one sex act wouldn't have made much of a dent, while a ban that enumerated them all would read like the Kama Sutra. Instead the missionaries chose to promote their own brand of sex: the “missionary position,” which is best analyzed as two positions—top and bottom. The bottom position can enhance the experience by taking a cold shower, applying blue lipstick and not breathing. I doubt that it caught on much on Tahiti.




The Tahitians seem to have persevered, but many other tribes and cultures simply perished, or continue to exist in greatly diminished numbers, so depressed by their circumstances that they are not interested in doing much beyond drinking beer, smoking cigarettes and watching television. And which group is doing the best? That's the one that's been causing the most damage. Thus, the rhetoric about “saving our species from extinction” seems rather misplaced: we have been doing everything we can to drive it to extinction as efficiently as possible for a few centuries now, and we aren't about to stop because that would be uncivilized.




Because, you see, that's who we are: we are educated, literate, civilized persons. The readers of this blog especially are economically and environmentally enlightened types, their progressivism resting on the three pillars of pointing out financial Ponzi schemes, averting environmental devastation and eating delicious, organic, locally grown food. We do wish to survive collapse, provided the survival strategy includes such items as gender equality, multiculturalism, LGBT-friendiness and nonviolence. We do not wish to take off all of our clothes and wander the outback with a digging stick looking for edible tubers. We'd rather sit around discussing green technology over a glass of craft-brewed beer (local, of course) perhaps digressing once in a while to consider the obscure yet erudite opinions of one Pederasmus of Ülm on the endless, glorious ebb and flow of human history.




We don't want to change who we are in order to live in harmony with nature; we want nature to live in harmony with us while we remain who we are. In the meantime, we are continuing to wage war on the sorry remnants of the tribes that had once lived in balance with nature, offering them “education,” “economic development” and a chance to play a minor role in our ruinous, negative-sum economic games. Given such options, their oft-observed propensity to do nothing and stay drunk seems like a perfectly rational choice. It minimizes the damage. But the damage may already have been done. I will present just two examples of it, but if you don't like them, there are plenty of others.




For the first, you can do your own research. Buy yourself an airline ticket to a tropical paradise of your choice and check into an oceanside resort. Wake up early in the morning and go look at the beach. You will see lots of dark-skinned people with wheelbarrows, buckets, shovels and rakes scraping up the debris that the surf deposited during the night, to make the beach look clean, safe and presentable for the tourists. Now walk along the beach and beyond the cluster of resorts and hotels, where it isn't being continuously raked clean. You will find that it is so smothered with debris as to make it nearly impassable. There will be some material of natural origin—driftwood and seaweed—but the majority of the debris will be composed of plastic. If you try to sort through it, you will find that a lot of it is composed of polypropylene and nylon mesh and rope and styrofoam floats from the fishing industry. Another large category will consist of single-use containers: suntan lotion and shampoo bottles, detergent bottles, water bottles, fast food containers and so on. Typhoons and hurricanes have an interesting organizing effect on plastic debris, and you will find piles of motor oil jugs next to piles of plastic utensils next to piles of water bottles, as if someone actually bothered to sort them. On a beach near Tulum in México I once found an entire collection of plastic baby sandals, all of different colors, styles and vintages.




Left on the beach, the plastic trash photo-degrades over time, becoming discolored and brittle, and breaking down into smaller and smaller pieces. The final result of this process is a microscopic plastic scum, which can persist in the environment for centuries. It plays havoc with the ecosystem, because a wide variety of animals mistake the plastic particles for food and swallow them. They then clog their digestive tracts, causing them to starve. This devastation will persist for many centuries, but it has started already: the ocean is dying. Over large areas of it, plastic particles outnumber plankton, which forms the basis of the oceanic food chain.




The ravages of the plastics plague also affect land. Scraped together by sanitation crews, plastic debris is usually burned, because recycling it would be far too expensive. Plastic can be incinerated relatively safely and cleanly, but this requires extremely high temperatures, and can only be done at specialized facilities. Power plants can burn plastic as fuel, but plastic trash is a diffuse energy source, takes up a lot of space and the energy and labor costs of transporting it to power plants may render it energy-negative. And so a lot of plastic trash is burned in open pits, at low temperatures, releasing into the atmosphere a wide assortment of toxic chemicals, including ones that affect the hormonal systems of animals. Effects include genital abnormalities, sterility and obesity. Obesity has now reached epidemic proportions in many parts of the world, affecting not just the humans but other species as well. Here, then, is our future: chemical plants continue to churn out synthetic materials, most of these find their way into the environment and slowly break down, releasing their payload of toxins. As this happens, people and animals alike turn into obese, sexless blobs. First they find that they are unable to give birth to fertile male offspring. This is already happening: human sperm counts are dropping throughout the developed world. Next, they will be unable to give birth to normal male babies—ones without genital abnormalities. Next, they will be unable to produce male offspring at all, as has already happened to a number of marine species. Then they go extinct.




Note that no disaster or accident is required in order for this scenario to unfold, just more business as usual. Every time you buy a bottle of shampoo or a bottle of water, or a sandwich that comes wrapped in plastic or sealed in a vinyl box, you help it unfold a little bit further. All it takes is for the petrochemical industry (which provides the feedstocks—oil and natural gas, mostly) and the chemical plants that process them into plastics, to continue functioning normally. We don't know whether the amount of plastics, and associated toxins, now present in the environment, is already sufficient to bring about our eventual extinction.




But we certainly don't want to give up on synthetic chemistry and go back to a pre-1950s materials science, because that, you see, would be bad for business. Now, you probably don't want to go extinct, but if you decided that you will anyway, you would probably want to remain comfortable and civilized down to the very end. And life without modern synthetics would be uncomfortable. We want those plastic-lined diapers, for the young and the old!




This leaves those of us who are survival-minded, on an abstract, impersonal level, wishing for the global financial, commercial and political collapse to occur sooner rather than later. Our best case scenario would go something like this: a massive loss of confidence and panic in the financial markets grips the planet over the course of a single day, pancaking all the debt pyramids and halting credit creation. Commerce stops abruptly because cargos cannot be financed. In a matter of weeks, global supply chains break down. In a matter of months, commercial activity grinds to a halt and tax revenues dwindle to zero, rendering governments everywhere irrelevant. In a matter of years, the remaining few survivors become as Captain Cook saw the aboriginal Australians: almost entirely inoffensive.




One of the first victims of collapse would be the energy companies, which are among some of the most capital-intensive enterprises. Next in line are the chemical companies that manufacture plastics and other synthetic organic chemicals and materials: as their petrochemical feedstocks become unavailable, they are forced to halt production. If we are lucky, the amount of plastic that is in the environment already turns out to be insufficient to drive us all to extinction. Human population can dwindle to as few as a dozen breeding females (the number that survived one of the ice ages, as suggested by the analysis of mitochondrial DNA) but in a dozen or so millennia the climate will probably stabilize, the Earth's ecology recover, and with it will the human population. We may never again achieve a complex technological civilization, but at least we'll be able to sing and dance, have children and, if we are lucky, even grow old in peace.




So far so good, but our next example makes the desirability of a swift and thorough collapse questionable. Prime exhibit is the melted-down nuclear power plant in Fukushima, Japan. Contrary to what the Japanese government would want everyone to believe, the situation there is not under any kind of control. Nobody knows what happened to the nuclear fuel from the reactors that melted down. Did they go to China, à la China Syndrome? Then there is the spent nuclear fuel pool, which is full, and leaking. If the water in that pool boils away, the fuel rods burst into flames and melt down and/or explode and then, according to some nuclear experts, it would be time to evacuate the entire northern hemisphere. The site at Fukushima is so radioactive that workers cannot go anywhere near it for any length of time, making it rather fanciful to think that they'll be able to get the situation there under control, now or ever. But we can be sure that eventually the already badly damaged building housing the spent nuclear fuel will topple, spilling its load and initiating phase two of the disaster. After that there will be no point in anyone going to Fukushima, except to die of radiation sickness.




You might think that Fukushima is an especially bad case, but plants just like Fukushima dot the landscape throughout much of the developed world. Typically, they are built near a source of water, which they use as coolant and to run the steam turbines. Many of the ones built on rivers run the risk of the rivers drying up. Many of the ones built on the ocean are at risk of inundation from rising ocean levels, storm surges and tsunamis. Typically, they have spent fuel pools that are full of hot nuclear waste, because nobody has figured out a way to dispose of it. All of them have to be supplied with energy for many decades, or they all melt just like Fukushima. If enough of them melt and blow up, then it's curtains for animals such as ourselves, because most of us will die of cancer before reaching sexual maturity, and the ones that do will be unable to produce healthy offspring.




I once flew through the airport in Minsk, where I crossed paths with a large group of “Chernobyl children” who were on their way to Germany for medical treatment. I took a good look at them, and that picture has stayed with me forever. What shocked me was the sheer variety of developmental abnormalities that were on display.".....Read the rest at www.cluborlov.com
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kathy decker
Advanced Member
Username: fand

Post Number: 441
Registered: 3-2011
Posted on Monday, October 28, 2013 - 11:07 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

Well, Michael, you certainly do your homework.

I think the changes in the gulf stream will definitely affect our weather, and the changes in climate will definitely affect the way we live.

I do believe that we have resources such as hydroponics and solar energy that can mitigate the effects of climate change.

Is our world ending?

Time will tell.
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Michael Smith
Intermediate Member
Username: by_name_only

Post Number: 161
Registered: 7-2013
Posted on Thursday, October 31, 2013 - 9:44 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

The shame of it all is that it doesn't have to. We could still maintain a system based on sustainability. Everyone would have to sacrifice and share and learn to live in a new world with less modern conveniences and creature comforts, more local and agrarian based as opposed to a system run by a massive military industrial complex, with simple barter and gift giving replacing exponential growth, fractional reserve banking, compound interest rates, derivatives, etc

Folk traditions and story telling, people learning to cooperate more....the transition to a semi industrialized society could be quite positive for our collective mental and physical well being, if we chose to deindustrialize in conditions and contract back to a pre-industrial state that is safe and dignified and can find ways to rebalance nature and go back to living in harmony with her.

Many I have been reading say its past a point of no return. I will be positive and say I hope people can realize our predicament and get together and solve our problems. Yet most people can't even begin to accept that there are problems, let alone the gravity of our situation, to begin with. Admitting that there is a problem, let alone a dire situation facing us, is the first step that must be taken before solutions and mitigation can even begin. Look at all the denial.
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bean
Senior Member
Username: tina

Post Number: 2588
Registered: 12-2001
Posted on Thursday, October 31, 2013 - 8:37 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

Well, I talk to alot of people....seriously, NOT one is in denial....what IS denied...is an answer to the problem. A HOPE that the "people" will accept the situation, and co- operate. THAT is where we need to find a way to come together... Letting go of the way we do......life.

Maybe the only way that will happen, is if a major die off happens........I sure would like it to to be other wise.....
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cherokee
Senior Member
Username: cherokee

Post Number: 1532
Registered: 2-2001
Posted on Friday, November 01, 2013 - 8:59 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

Michael- "We could still maintain a system based on sustainability. Everyone would have to sacrifice and share and learn to live in a new world with less modern conveniences and creature comforts, more local and agrarian based."

Like the Amish. They pull it off quite well.

"as opposed to a system run by a massive military industrial complex,"

Our system is based on the military industrial complex? They haven't stopped the Amish. You want a to live in a system like the Amish? Then do it. It's doubtful that Boeing, General Dynamics, or Lockheed will stop you.

Best Wishes from Mole Hollow
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Michael Smith
Intermediate Member
Username: by_name_only

Post Number: 162
Registered: 7-2013
Posted on Friday, November 01, 2013 - 10:45 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

Well we may not even have that choice. The Amish, Native tribes, and others who plan to live a life of self sufficiency, including the so called and non existent Illuminati, still have to breathe the same air, drink the same water, and be exposed to the same pollutants as the rest of us.

I am now leaning towards Ray Fowler's theory, although sudden climate change will play a role.

Check out "the estrogen effect...assault on the male" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LkxIJJI37bQ

It will be a slow, painful extinction from a combination of recent human industrial activity that are why they are here, why we will not persevere. Watch the observations and conclusions of scientists.

Increased infertility, climate change, mass starvation, conflict over ever diminishing resources, and the increase in plagues and global pandemics. The process is already underway
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da~an
Senior Member
Username: daan

Post Number: 7129
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Friday, November 08, 2013 - 9:55 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

we sense a major change is coming almost as if
the creator being is about to shift gears in a
classic stick shift auto from yesteryear... we
are almost lucky if a repeat of the Little Ice Age
precedes a warm spell apex of a millennium's duration
because it gives us time to correct our big mistakes.
climate change is happening, but on top of this
to a 25% to 50% likelihood we have changed
things to the degree where we may have pushed
things back to the early Pleistocene or even earlier if
there are no ice ages ever again, the CO2 levels or
we have a warm spell then another YOUNGER DRYAS...
and then... its anyone's guess if we go greenhouse earth!
"up"
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da~an
Senior Member
Username: daan

Post Number: 7130
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Friday, November 08, 2013 - 9:59 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

Whitley had talked of an erratic eco~sphere
before things settle into an obvious phase.
The weather is to be more abruptly brutal as
we in time become more securely post-industrial.
"up"
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da~an
Senior Member
Username: daan

Post Number: 7140
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Sunday, November 17, 2013 - 3:34 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

there is a new volcano about to erupt in the Antarctic!!!!!
http://www.nbcnews.com/science/volcano-under-antarctic-ice-may-erupt-accelerate- melting-2D11603371

it may have once erupted 8,000 years ago, at about the same time
as Sicily's Mount Aetna and the big Storegga Slide off the coast
of Norway, two events that created a massive tsunami at the time...
"up"
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Michael Smith
Intermediate Member
Username: by_name_only

Post Number: 189
Registered: 7-2013
Posted on Monday, November 18, 2013 - 6:48 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

More reflection on your world is ending.....

It all seems to lead back to human choices and thus human activity.

Whether pro industry for greed types have been willing or ever will admit to it, it is a choice humans made to treat their planet and its resources like our littering box, too many made the mistake of believing we were the complete and sum existence for anything being here on earth. We lost touch with the inner soul of our being, trapped in a world of fear and greed, causing us collectively to act on a primitive level

The discovery of fossil fuels and the beginning of the age of "Petroleum Man", or what others still call "industrialization", will not only prove to be brief blip on the radar of human history, but very likely the beginning of our world.

Using inputs from fossil fuels, we swelled the earth's natural carrying capacity from one billion people to our now over swelled population of 7-8 billion

Inputs from fossil fuels, which essentially captured the energy from sunlight over hundreds of millions of years, gave rise to large scale, industrialized agriculture.

Using 10 kilocalories of fossil fuel for every 1 kilocalorie for food raised, using diesel powered machines to plow, plant, weed, etc massive yields of agriculture. Further using nitrogen based fertilizers, a process only obtained by using natural gas, and finally, fertlizers which are obtained from fossil fuels to keep the "pests" from ruining our massive crops, we further exploded the "green revolution", making food and thus kilocalories available for the natural human carrying capacity, which was kept in check for less energy in the form of food consumption, to keep the human population at its natural carrying capacity of roughly 1 billion souls

Nature has a way of keeping ecosystems in balance by a system of checks and balances. Animals delay lactation and ovulation, puberty is delayed etc.

So now the very elements, I would call them the modern day forbidden fruits, are in fact leading to "our world ending"

The simplest and most undeniable example by the denialists are the vast swaths of the world's oceans that have died or are dying from human fossil fuel consumption.

Vast "dead zones" where nitrogen based fertilizers have leached from the creeks, streams, rivers, lakes, and oceans where they inevitably wind up in the sea, creating algae blooms that use up the oxygen necessary for life in those regions where nothing can live.

I have read and stated all along that mercury levels of marine life have been grossly censored. Coal burning by countries like China and India as well as the US has rendered most if not all of the fish you once liked dangerously high with neuro toxins like mercury, but they were already.

Billions of tons of plastic have piled up in the world's oceans. As I quoted from cluborlov, these by products of petroleum photo degrade over time as they pile up on the shores and on the bottom of the world's oceans into a plastic scum, which the fish mistake as plankton, consume, and starve when their digestive tracts become plugged.

The die off of the honey bees....now attributed to pesticides derived from fossil fuels to grow quick profit, soil depleting corporate industrial farming/crops. If they disappear, we have 3 years....

Finally, the greenhouse effect, melting the polar ice caps. The salinity/chemistry of the Gulf Steam is changing. Freak tornados in the mid west this late in November? The Gulf Stream is shutting down, like it or not. That means a Europe that suddenly have to live like Eskimos, people in North America felling the flooding coastlines and trying to take up residence in south America. Good luck in being treated as a "gringo" down there after the way we have treated them. We will be treated by shotguns, grenade launchers, AK 47s, rapsists, murderers

History has a strange way of karma, of repeating itself
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da~an
Senior Member
Username: daan

Post Number: 7143
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Wednesday, November 20, 2013 - 5:38 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

to cap it off, if NASA goes after Apophis in 2029
and changes its trajectory, if they are not accurate
they run the risk of making 2036 very interesting...
http://neo.jpl.nasa.gov/apophis/ if Murphy's law is
predictive of our efforts to ward off a catastrophy!!!
"up"
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Michael Smith
Intermediate Member
Username: by_name_only

Post Number: 199
Registered: 7-2013
Posted on Sunday, November 24, 2013 - 1:56 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

These people are overly optimistic, but they have gazed into the present and the future and are at least willing to admit that the human race is on the brink of extinction http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pIwDXbuzb7U
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Michael Smith
Advanced Member
Username: by_name_only

Post Number: 238
Registered: 7-2013
Posted on Monday, January 27, 2014 - 10:20 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

The "electromagnetic catastrophe" vs scientific facts http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2545465/Forget-global-warming-wor ry-MAGNETOSPHERE-Earths-magnetic-field-collapsing-affect-climate-wipe-power-grid s.html